Can you reach 3,000 mv shooting a 180 Berger
in a 7mm Rem Mag or 7mm WSM?

27" barrel.

I'm going to say it's possible, in the Remmy. I'd try it first with RL-22. Moly probably wouldn't hurt. New project?

R.

Yes, new build.

I bought that Brux 7mm 1/8.6 barrel that was for sale here with the idea in mind of pushing 180 VLD's at 3,000, that's my goal anyways.

I bet 3000 is posible out of a 27" barrel
Should make for a fun longrange toy.

Its interesting reading anyway....

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek064.html

Jeff

I have a 284 Shehane barrel for just this purpose. It is getting screwed on as we speak. Looking at 6br.com, looks like 3050fps is possible with RL17 and 2950fps with H4831SC.

http://www.6mmbr.com/7mm284.html

I'd bet that the 7RM is capable of getting close to 3,000fps with a 180gr in a 27" barrel. I'm sure you have already given thought to throat length and having less bullet in the case will certainly increase powder capacity. The 7x300WinMag would give a bit more horsepower without using a full H&H length case. A 3.6" M700 mag box should offer enough wiggle.

I have a 28 inch 7x300wtby... but I have not had time to break out the 180s yet so I can't help on that end either...

I've seen well over 2900 fps with 175 gr Sierras & Noslers from 24 & 26" barrels in 7mm Rem mag. I'd think with a good long barrel, 3,000 fps is possible with the 180's.

Might just be easier to chamber it for the STW or the RUM instead though...

I built a 7mag for a buddy that pushes the 180s at 3000 with some amazing accuracy. How those guys are getting 3000 with a 284win is beyond me....but then again I could never get my 6.5x284 to 3000 with the 140s without ruining my brass. Maybe they are not worried about case life, maybe they just have faster barrels, maybe they are just willing to push hard than I am, I dunno.

A 28 inch barrel and your own your way!

rl 17 6.5 x 284 130grn ab 3150 140s at 3075 brass just fine 26in barrel

STW

7wby will get you there easily. I bet you can get it out of a 7wsm. I am getting 2850 out of a 24" tube with 57.0grs of IMR 4831.

Are you limited by action length? Are you set on the 7mm Rem mag?

Cartridge : 7 mm Rem. Mag.
Bullet : .284, 180, Berger VLD
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.290 inch or 83.57 mm
Barrel Length : 27.0 inch or 685.8 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.

Matching Maximum Pressure: 63570 psi, or 438 MPa

or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %

These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
ADI AR 2218 110.0 76.6 4.96 3101 99.0 62783 13577 1.288 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N570 106.6 73.4 4.76 3095 98.9 63570 13315 1.305 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Retumbo 110.0 72.3 4.68 3038 100.0 62843 11494 1.306 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 2 105.6 69.0 4.47 3018 100.0 63570 11753 1.323 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum (Big Boy) 100.0 70.0 4.54 3016 100.0 63570 11552 1.307 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 517 100.4 70.1 4.54 3015 100.0 63570 11543 1.307 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 12 100.3 69.9 4.53 3014 100.0 63570 11513 1.308 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 97.6 65.2 4.22 3014 100.0 63570 11835 1.313 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO 97.9 68.0 4.41 3012 99.6 63570 12035 1.320 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 95.7 65.3 4.23 3001 100.0 63570 11311 1.321 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 102.0 64.8 4.20 3001 100.0 63570 11401 1.303 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC 96.5 64.8 4.20 3001 100.0 63570 11401 1.303 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-25 103.4 67.2 4.35 2995 100.0 63570 10889 1.312 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AP 2214 101.5 68.9 4.46 2992 100.0 63570 11161 1.297 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2213 97.6 64.5 4.18 2991 100.0 63570 11355 1.300 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H1000 106.8 69.0 4.47 2990 100.0 63570 11130 1.297 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori 24N41 109.0 75.9 4.92 2984 94.3 63570 12243 1.301 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA15 97.9 64.7 4.19 2982 100.0 63570 11234 1.320 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation 97.9 64.7 4.19 2982 100.0 63570 11234 1.320 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22 97.9 64.7 4.19 2982 100.0 63570 11234 1.320 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR 100.5 65.0 4.21 2982 100.0 63570 11261 1.320 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H870 110.0 74.2 4.81 2978 99.2 57016 12614 1.373 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R905 99.2 64.4 4.17 2958 99.9 63570 11124 1.319 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2209 94.6 61.5 3.99 2943 100.0 63570 10690 1.308 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19 95.1 62.2 4.03 2941 100.0 63570 10746 1.316 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP14 ~approximation 95.8 62.6 4.06 2935 100.0 63570 10675 1.316 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N170 109.7 70.9 4.59 2929 97.6 63570 11418 1.332 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC 96.4 63.7 4.13 2927 99.9 63570 10795 1.313 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 100.3 63.7 4.13 2927 99.9 63570 10795 1.313 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 85.7 59.2 3.84 2922 100.0 63570 10311 1.325 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 90.7 61.2 3.97 2920 100.0 63570 10286 1.325 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 ~approximation 93.3 61.0 3.95 2920 100.0 63570 10499 1.316 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 90.4 61.0 3.95 2920 100.0 63570 10499 1.316 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA4 93.3 61.0 3.95 2920 100.0 63570 10499 1.316 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350 90.5 58.8 3.81 2917 100.0 63570 10127 1.318 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350 92.9 58.1 3.77 2910 100.0 63570 10100 1.320 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-D1001 106.5 74.9 4.85 2907 94.8 63570 11282 1.321 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 83.8 58.3 3.78 2903 100.0 63570 10187 1.330 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S385 95.2 62.9 4.08 2899 100.0 63570 10192 1.338 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R904 94.3 60.8 3.94 2897 100.0 63570 10342 1.317 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester Supreme 780 94.0 64.8 4.20 2897 100.0 63570 10246 1.324 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17 83.6 57.3 3.71 2893 100.0 63570 9717 1.316 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 87.8 58.6 3.80 2892 100.0 63570 9984 1.335 ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP 90.3 58.4 3.78 2890 100.0 63570 9845 1.333 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP19 ~approximation 90.3 58.4 3.78 2889 100.0 63570 9843 1.333 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N165 100.4 64.9 4.20 2886 100.0 63570 9986 1.329 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350 93.4 58.4 3.78 2883 100.0 63570 9775 1.352 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N160 100.7 63.1 4.09 2881 100.0 63570 10165 1.320 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S365 91.7 59.6 3.86 2879 100.0 63570 9533 1.344 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 3100 103.7 64.1 4.15 2877 100.0 63570 9848 1.356 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-S0701 90.4 58.4 3.79 2871 100.0 63570 9833 1.337 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831 94.7 59.3 3.84 2870 100.0 63570 9623 1.343 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot BigGame 84.3 56.9 3.69 2864 100.0 63570 9516 1.332 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 11 84.5 57.0 3.69 2862 100.0 63570 9504 1.332 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R907 88.6 56.9 3.68 2858 100.0 63570 9742 1.329 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC 85.9 56.9 3.69 2858 100.0 63570 9736 1.329 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 83.7 55.9 3.62 2854 100.0 63570 9533 1.338 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP11 ~approximation 82.4 53.9 3.49 2850 100.0 63570 9392 1.335 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 82.4 53.9 3.49 2850 100.0 63570 9392 1.335 ! Near Maximum !

I will agree you should be able to get close to 3000 with a 27" barrel.
A more important question might be, "can you get the 180 VLD to shoot?"

My friends and I have put the 180 VLD through its paces with the following rifles:

7 rem mag
two different STWs
a 284 shehane
284 win
7 RUM

The 7 rem mag, the shehane, 284 and Rum shot the 180 very well.
The STWs wouldn't.

I have the 7 rem mag and can share what I have done. It is a 3 groove 30". I chose RL-25. The bullet shot its best .035" into the rifling with 69 gr of powder for a velocity of 3065 fps.

As the 3 groove throat wore it began to "eat" those 180 hunting VLDs. I was advised by guys on Long Range hunting that the combination of 1 in 7 AND a 3 groove would destroy bullets at around the 200 round mark and they were right. At that point I reworked the load and dropped the charge weight of RL-25 to 66 grs with the heavier jacketed 180 target VLD, velocity was 2950. Things went well till round count 350, then it began to destroy the heavies!

I doubt you will have the issues that I encountered with the wrong barrel but you might not be able to get the bullet to shoot. Just be aware that you may have to fall back to an alternative bullet.

FYI my friend had the 3 groove 1 in 7 twist on the first STW and his ate bullets at an earlier round count. He rebarreled with a 6 groove 1 in 9 twist and THAT didn't shoot the VLDs either. He eventually settled on the 160 accubond. That 1 in 7 3 groove became the 284 on another rifle and it finally shoots the 180s with a moderate dose of H4831.


As for my 30" 7 rem mag? I was forced to use accubonds or monos like the E-tip. I molyed at that point and the 140 accubonds are screaming along at 3400 fps with 66 grs of RL-17. The 150 e-tip liked 65 grs of RL-17 for vel of 3355.


If Power Pro 4000 MR ever arrives I'd consider that powder for your 7 rem mag. It is supposed to be formulated like RL-17 and may be just the thing for boosting velocity with your 27" barrel.

Hope this helped.

Very much so! I've been reading and re-reading the post here and a lot of great input has been given. I greatly appreciate it.

RL25 in the 7RM & 7WSM would be a good bet and would get you there I'm almost certain.

Link to 7 thread

MtnHtr

good link

I'd be kind of suprised if you didn't get there with the big 7 and 7828 or R25.

I'd not want to try to get there with the WSM, my experience was it would run within 100 fps of the 7 Rem but that was it. The factory ammo is IMO too hot and I couldn't sanely dupe it..

I have some 180's and could try them out of my 25" Mashburn again but they shot so poorly in it that I just couldnt get into working up a load with them.

Dober

3000 with a 180 and 27" barrel in the 7Mag is pretty easy using Retumbo. Most of my builds run just over 3000fps with a 26" barrel using Retumbo. The 27" builds are running between 3050-3100 depending on barrel. The 7wsm's seem to be running 2950ish area.

TMR

When I get all my components I may have to drive up and see you.

Talk about a supersonic spear!

Look foward to it. I usually have a couple 7mags in process at all times. Its the next popular caliber behind the 338 Edge that I build.

In the process of building a 7mm-300 WBY for just that bullet. Goal is 3100 fps. Reamwer was shipped yesterday. We will see!

Very interesting Dennis, didn't know that.

What components are you building on?

Brand of barrel and what length?

If the load data is the same basically for the 7RM and 7 WSM, why shouldn't one do what the other will do?
I see it posted a lot that the 7 WSM is going to be about 50 to 100 fps slower than the 7RM, but it has not been my experience and all factory loads for the 7 WSM beats Factory Loads for the 7 RM. Am I misssing something?

Factory WSM ammo is loaded to higher pressures.

That's true but the loading data for each cartridge is the same.
Why wouldn't the performance be the same, not 100 Fps less as gets posted quite often.
I just use the data that's listed in the Nosler#5 for the 7RM for my WSM and according to my clock the velocities are right in line with no problems that I can see.
Ramshot & Hodgdon show the same data for both cartridges also.

According to this website, the case capacity of the two cases is almost identical (83 vs 83.2). I too would assume that the two cases would therefore have similar velocities.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_case_capacity.htm

Bob,

Read this article here: http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek071.html

This guy is getting 3000 out of a 7mm-300WSM with 180 bergers and 66 grains of RE25.

what is the minimum twist rate to stabalize the 180 berger their site says 1:9" but I have read articles where a 1:9 did not stabalize the 168 berger

I 1:9 should stabilize the 180's, especially with velocities in the 3000fps range. Could always go 1:8.5 just to be safe though. I have a factory Sendero in 7STW that stabilizes the 180's and I believe the ROT for that rifle is 1:9.5 - these were going around 3100fps.

A 9 twist will easily stablize the 168 VLD's. I shoot these in a 280AI with a Broughton 1:9 in the low 2900's.

Kevin

SU35,
The 7Dakota would have a little more capacity than the 7RM, and be the same case length, 2.5". Don't know if it could match your bolt face though.

RR

RR, the Dakota would be ideal. Don't know enough about it's brass $$$. I'll check it out.

I just bought a new 700 SS SPS 300 RUM here yesterday, it's going to be the donor.

I'll be changing out the magazine.

Anyone want a new 300 RUM SS 26" I'll have one for sale.

Hey, before you part it out, work up a load with a 130gr TTSX and flame a few pronghorns/coyotes/brush apes first! I'm thinking the speeds that a RUM could spit those out would be fun for a bit...

price?


PM me

$50.00 plus shipping

A 7mm RUM will get over 3000 with a 180

It sure will but I'm not interested in 80 to 90+ grains of powder to make it happen.

I also avoid Remington brass when I can.

Just got in from the range and some speed tests with the Mashburn and the 180's.

As per usual they shot like generic dog poop in my rifle but that's another story. The tube is very froggy and that could be part of it...or it could just be me..

Long and the short, I used my max load from my 175 work and R25.

I topped out @ 3K with the 180. Maybe I could give it a bit more but maybe not..

According to the newest Horn Manual and the 175 in the 7 Wby I should be able to give it more powder. But, I don't feel I wish to go there. This is the first time that I can recall where the 7 Wby had loads with more powder than I felt I could safely go to. This is once again using R25.

I think if you feel the need for more gas than 3K you're two best options are more barrel length than I am running and or going to the 7/300 Wby.

Bottom line for me, there's slugs that I likey more than the Bergers so I'll stick with them. The 150 NBT, 162 Horn, 175 Sierra are all good long range slugs and the 150 SMK aint bad either.

Guess I'll stick with the bullets a bit lighter and at fair bit faster speeds. Lastly, I'm only concerned with going to 700 yds and feel nun the least handicapped by going with the 150 NBT or 162 Horn for all that moves.

Dober

Thanks Mark! Good feedback.

I'm looking at a looong rifle that hammers things like rocks, gongs, ect out to 1200 + yards.

U could always just build a 7mm Dober..... (7/378)

Dober

Then the 338 Edge or Lapua is what you are looking for. The 300 SMK's .768 BC makes it an excellent wind bucker with enough mass to hammer the target when it ar
arives

Is there any advantage at all to the 338 Lapua over the 338 Edge?

Ballisticaly they are equal. Shawn Carlock the designer of the Edge and the maker of my 338 Lapua uses 92 grains of H-1000 behind the 300 SMK and that is the exact load that I shoot in my Lapua

The advantage that the Lapua has IMHO is brass quality and the fact that there are very accurate factory rounds available if needed. The Edge is a Wildcat

Chesapeake, thanks. That was a good article. That RL25 is proving good in a lot of 7mm's...I know that it even works good in a 270 Winchester although no one uses it for that.

..the 7WSM is a strange one and I cannot figure it out.The cartridge with Federal Premium factory loads,160 Nosler Partition,averaged over 3250 in TWO different rifles,a Kimber Montana, and a NH M70.That's faster than I expected and I was unable to duplicate it,at least within what I considered safe margins....I know Federal loads the cartridge right up there.....

WOW, that`s smoken...proprietary powder?
I`ve gotten 3190 average with Retumbo out of the 24inch Wby. Case is full, slightly compressed even. Don`t think I would do more.

My Kimber 270wsm is the same. A box of Winchester Super X was launching 150 grain soft points between 3100 and 3180 (I may be remebering these numbers wrong,the loads were HOT!) out of my Kimber. Heavy bolt lift, flattened primers, and large velocity swings. I shot maybe 4 or 5 out of that box and left the rest alone. Federal premium 130's were up neer 3300 fps and a little stiff on the bolt lift. I dont know if its my rifle or what, but I cant approach 270WSM advertised velocities, or MAX powder charges with any I've tried. I shoot 140 NAB's at 3000 and folks ask me why I play at 270 win velocities.

Sorry for the hijack Bob.

No worries Rick, all input is gtg here.


I just got off the phone with Travis from Rbros.
http://www.rbrosrifles.com/

He's been building 7mm Rem mags using a new reamer that caters to the 180 VLD. Loaded with Retumbo
the 7mm Rem mag has become a whole new animal, laying in 180's on top of each other at 3,000 + mv.

I'll be sending Travis my Brux barrel and action.

You building this rig for the High Buck or just for ringing gongs?

I've looked at Rbros. before and wondered about going back to packing 10#'s of rifle up the mountain. Just not ready to give up packing my 7.5# rig yet.

Oh man, no way will this be a backpack rifle, i have a 6.5 lb Ti for that in 6.5-284.

This will be a "Migration Rifle" for the big bucks heading out of the high country on their way to the low country to winter. Snipe them when they are on their route that their ancestors have been traveling for the past few thousand years.

This will also be a rifle for long range elk hunting in SE WA Blue's.

SU: Like I been sayin' for years (who listens? .......when it comes to "slow' 7 RM's, it's all in the throats and barrels

Bob (and others),

The good ol' 7-mag interests me greatly.

However, one reason I went 300 WM on my Sendero was that at least in the loading manuals, a 7-mag doesn't do anything like 3000 fps with a 180. At least if memory serves. In fact, I remember being quite surprised at the speeds in the books for 7-mag, when I was researching it. Why is that?

Regardless, when I succeed in wearing my 300 WM barrel out, and believe you me I'm trying, it'll most likely become a 7-mag throated (and twisted) for long bullets.

So see Bob? You aren't just casting your voice into the void.

SU35 - I've seen Travis' work and his rifles in action. Excellent workmanship and real performers. You're likely to get one heck of a rifle back from him.

I'm settling for 160's at 3,000+ fps these days from my 7mm RM/Ruger Number One. Doesn't seem like much of a sacrifice.

Regards, Guy

I do build lightweight rifles also....just most of my builds are more longrange hunting style. Lately my focus has been on what I feel is the best of both worlds. What I have come up with weighs just under 10lbs with a 4.5-14x50 scope and 26" barrel. Balances perfectly, has long range capability, and is extremely accurate. So far, its working out well and alot of guys are going with it.

Sorry to hijack the post.

How would the 7mm/338 Ruger compare?