Looking to build a load for my Montana. Boxer pointed me in the direction of the 155 Secnar. Are they that superior to the AMAX? They cost 50% more.

Not being cheap, but looking for real world data and observations between the two.

Also, anyone loading 2000MR with either? Varget?

Most guys I know are shooting the 155 Scenar in their .308's with about 45 to 46 grains of Varget. They believe that it is THE bullet for the .308

The Scenar has the same BC as the 168 A-Max but you can shoot it at close to 2900 fps. I haven't run the wind drift numbers, but elevation data is the same as my Creedmoor shooting the 140 A-Max

Check that.

I remember his wind drift is about 1/2 again as much as mine. If I'm holding 1 mil, he has to hold about 1 1/2

45-46 Varget is the load Scenarshooter (Pat) recoomended to me and it shoots great, he says it works in his multiple .308's, and that guy knows his stuff.

Thanks!

Is there a target velocity for accuracy?

Mine's a little under 2,900 with a 26" barrel and mine shot best there. IIRC Pat said he gets 2900 with very good accuracy.

I got the same results with 50.7 grains of MR 2000. Comfortable with either 46 grains of Varget or the above load of MR 2000 . Using lapua brass and oal of 2.814 along with fed 210M primers. Rifle is a Kimber longmaster in 308 win of course.

I`ve had experience with both those bullets in the .308. What are trying to do? target work? At what range?.
Because of the BC of each bullet, you will need to lean hard on the AMax to remain supersonic at 1k. Not so much with the Lapua. Both bullets are very accurate, with an edge going to the Amax, believe it or not, out of my rifle.
Cost is a factor, so if shots are within 900 yrds, the Amax can do that without undue stress on the rifle and components, IME.

PS, try 4320..

Shhh!

What velocities, barrel lenght, etc. with 4320??

Out of my match gun, 26 inch barrel. I needed to push the bullet over 2850, IIRC, not home now, so can`t refer to my notes. I didn`t have the pressure issues with 4320 that I did with Varget. The a-max stayed SS at 1k. Accuracy is excellent.
YMMV. Work up using a crony, if you have one. Otherwise, you will need a buddy to stand under a target at 1k to tell you if the bullet is coming in SS.

For you non-competitor types, he means in the pit behind a berm.

"For you non-competitor types, he means in the pit behind a berm."

Probably more exciting without the pit and the berm...

Im working up a load with varget now, and as others have said 46 grns seems to be the sweet spot. I need to clock em but there about 1/2 MOA on the first time out.

You would be surprised how many idiots would go out and stand next to the target. "Go back further Jim Bob, I still heard the 'crack'! LOL Flinch

That's just plain Darwin at work, that's all that is!

And it is perfectly okay with me. Darwin is a good man

Brad put me on to his recipe for my 308 Montana. it instantly shot great. pm me if you want it. it involved RL15 or Varget and 150 or 168 TTSX's.

I will throw the 155.5 Berger full bore into the mix as well if you cannot get the scenar. I start at 45gr of varget and start adding powder till I get 2900fps, accuracy is usually there all along. Took 47.3gr in a 22" barrel and 46.5gr in a 26" tube.

I tried the 155 amax and had an occassional flier I could not account for, maybe one in 20 shots would be significantly outside my clearly defined wobble pattern.

Recommending the 155.5 just for external ballistics, have yet to smack anything with it and I dont recall if it is recommended by Berger.

I use Scenars and Varget in my .308 Palma rifles and love both.
45.5-46 grains will getrdun with no sweat.
I also use in it my hunting rifles and my .223 match rifles as well as my Fclass rifles .
Heck, I LOVE Varget .I use more of that powder than anything else.What did the old lady say in the commercial
"Hogdgon's Varget - I put the chit on EVERYTHING!!"
Cat

I'm new to the Scenars and have only fired 15 rounds so far.

All you guys saying 45-46 grains of Varget with the Scenars, are you using Lapua brass?

If I'm using Winchester brass, is it the same charge, or do I go up a little because of case capacity? (e.g., would the recommended load now be 47-48 because of the Win brass)

In my 22 inch Montana, I'm getting 2775 with Win cases, CCI 200s, 2.8 COL, and 46.5. I've fired three, three shot groups with that load: .6, .8, .8.

47 grains gave me 2820: 1.1 inch, 1, 1.1.

That sounds in line with what everyone else is seeing, I just wanted to check before I head out to the range for more experimenting.

I'm using WW; stopped at 46 because that was most accurate in my rifle.

Thanks for the answer.
I'm happy with the accuracy of the 46.5, I just thought I'd see if others are going up to 48 with the Win brass.

Something to think about is the case capacity the 155 Scenar uses up because of the way it's made. Overall it's about the same size as a 175 SMK. I'd think the 45-46 grain range is good.

With a flat base 150 I use over 47 grains of Varget in Lapua brass, but that's a much shorter bullet. Based on my experience with 165s and WWs needing more Varget than Lapuas, I'd have to head toward 48 with the 150. But again, that's a much shorter bullet than a Scenar.

Thanks, Mathman. I'll just leave it alone.

Are you sure?

The 155's can seat out farther due to the ogive so more case capacity.

I lifted this pic from 6mmbr.com.

I understand the 155 Scenar is longer but the 175 MK ogive appears to be farther out. I don't have any 175's to measure but I think case capacity would be higher with the both bullets seated out to the lands.

I did have these to measure base to ogive:

Edit, if I had to guess, the 175 MK would be .640 so almost no difference.

.615 - 168 Matchking
.640 - 175 Matchking
.646 - 155 Scenar
.672 - 168 Ballistic Tip
.761 - 180 Accubond

I get .67 for the Nosler CC 175, no SMKs on hand.

The Scenar definitely eats a bit of room compared to conventional bullets of similar weight. A 155 CC Nosler measured .565, and a 150 Hornady .5 for the flat base version.

mathman, are you making the comparisons with bullets seated to the same overall length or a set dimension off the lands?

I was just measuring base to ogive with a Sinclair nut. My 308s are loaded to magazine length.

are the scenars strickly used for punching paper?

Lots of guys hunt and kill effectively with those Scenars! (Read: scenarshooter)

David, most 308's with a 155 can easily handle 47.0 Varget.

I know yours will handle that load.

With Winchester cases, some of them can handle 48 grs. reasonably well. E

As mentioned, the 155 AMAX is not even in the running aerodynamically speaking. If your going light, shoot the 155 Scenar or the 155.5 Berger. If your going past 900 yards, might want to consider the 178 AMAX or 175 SMK for transonic stability.

I shoot 155g Scenar over 46.5g Varget, F210M at get 2860-2880 from a 22" custom tube. The Scenar/Varget combo is very easy to load for.

IME, the A-Max will do 900 without leaning on the gun to hard.It will do 1k, in MY rifle, with a little work. It`s also extremly accurate, and reasonably priced.
I would not discount the bullet for any work at ranges under this tho.
MY rifle shoots this bullet a bit better than the Secnar.