Guys,

What is currently the best sporter weight rifle/scope available with minimal modification (bedded, floated, trigger job) that would produce say, 6" groups at 500 yds. consistently, in a rifle suitable for DIY deer hunting.

I realize that is not really long range for most of the readers of this forum, but to me, a 500 yd. shot made under field conditions (meaning long hikes in rough country) with 95% confidence would be very respectable shooting.

I am thinking of something along the lines of a Tikka, Ruger Hawkeye, Rem. 700 CDL, or Savage, with Leupold VX III 3.5-10 with B&C, and cal. .25-06, .270 WCF, .270 WSM, (6.5-284in the Savage) or something approximately in this category. NULA and that class of rifles also a consideration, though pricey and maybe not needed just to meet the basic requirement.

Thanks for ideas - especially regarding scopes and reticles (am open to turrets as well).

forepaw

Montana in 243. vx2 3-9 with dots if you like...

W

forepaw,

Once I read in a magazine about a bunch of writers being invited to a shoot. There was a cardboard cutout of a deer set up at 500 yards. Most of writers didn't hit the target at all. Jim Carmichael used a Savage .25-06 and hit it all three times. The group was 1 5/8"

A couple years ago my son-in-laws brother bought a Savage with a Simons 3-9X from Walmart. He was new to shooting so I took him to the range. After a couple minutes of coaching he fired his first three shot group at 100 yards: 9/16". We adjusted the scope and he fired another group. The second was barely smaller than the first. We adjusted the scope again. He fired two in the "X" that were touching so I told him not to fire anymore.

I can go on about two more Savages like that if you want. I know of no other rifle I would bet to shoot like that out of the box.

Anything from a Savage to a Tikka to a Kimber to a NULA will do what you require, with varying levels of quality, weight, accuracy, etc. If you're concerned about $, then I'd probably go with a Tikka. If you want to spend the money and get an excellent rifle right out the gate, then NULA is hard to beat. Kimber is a very nice rifle for the money spent.

Lots of good scopes that will meet your needs, too. Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40 with TT's, Leup FX3 6x42 w/ M1 elevation, VX3 2.5-8x36 or 3.5-10x40 w/ M1 ele, Burris FFII Tactical, S&B, Swaro, Leica, etc. There are a bunch of good options. What kind of magnification do you like? Any target weight in mind for the rig? I usually end up with a mid-magnifaction scope with reliable adjustments and easy-to-use turrets on my serious hunting rifles. I also like a rifle that is about 7lbs, read to go. Lots of guys like their rifles heavier, lots like them lighter, but for me, that is the weight that suits me best.

When it comes time to kill stuff, my favourite rigs right now are a Tikka .25-06 w/ Burris FFII Tactical 3-9x40, and a Kimber Montana 7WSM w/ FX3 6x42 w/ M1 elevation turret. The Husky H-5000 7RM w/ Leup VX3 2.5-8x36 is another favourite, but it's a sentimental piece, and is not one of my hard-use rifles.

I've got a BPR in .270 that can do it.. $350 pawn shop rifle, with a FFII on top, shooting Horn 140's over H4831.



Just reporting results, in a results oriented society..

MOST factory rifles will get you there. Accurate, concentric loads with the proper bullet are key. Scopes are a personal thing too, but nothing wrong with a Leupy 6x42, or VX II 3-9x40 with M1 on top.

Take a look at hunting bullets with good BC like the .277 140 AB for example. This is a great bullet and I don't even own a .270...

Some do and some don't, but I bed, float, and do a trigger job on everything. I'll change out factory plastic stocks ASAP and I do like both Medalist and McMillan stocks.

I can't afford Nula type rifles, but you can go far with most factory rigs today. I've owned several Winchesters, Remmies and Rugers over the years and maybe one was a dud...

If you want to focus on economical durability with great shooting potential go find a stainless Ruger Mk II in .270 win in a boat paddle stock....

I'd concern myself more with making sure I did a good job of loading consistent ammo than I would the brand and chambering of the rifle. My second point of focus would be a quality bedding job that allows the rifle to be shot from offhand to prone and everything in-between without major shifts in POI. Taking for granted that the scope is mounted properly in quality components then 3rd, I'd make certain that the individual scope I mounted on the rifle worked as advertised, again, not so much about what brand or model, but that the one I used tracked well, held POI, etc.

Tikka, VX3 CDS, Hornady Factory Superformance. No mods, just mount, sight in, shoot sub MOA all day long, kill stuff out to 650.

84L Big Sky in 25-06 vx3 4.5x14x40

Next question please

Thanks to all who weighted in. These tips were just what I was looking for. The NULA would be an excellent choice, as would the Montana 84L, but both $$. I have also thought about the Remington Custom Shop offerings, but for the money, I would probably be better off with either of the other mfgs.

It sounds like the Leupold on the order of a VX-III 3.5 - 10, or 4.5-14 with CDS would be the cat's pajamas. I am still looking at the B&C reticle in the same scopes, due to the wind hold-off indicators, which for most of us is tougher to estimate than range - and of course, range is of limited usefulness when shooting up or down at a steep angle.

Since I am looking for a hard-use rifle, not a show piece, the Tikka is mighty tempting, drawbacks such as limited ejection port access, expensive spare mags, Beretta-owned, etc. notwithstanding. A Tikka and Leupold could be ready to go for under $2k I would guess.

One last question is regarding ammo selection. Although I handload, when I have some spare time (not often) and have to choose between the bench, or heading for the gym, I typically opt for the treadmill. So I am very interested in learning about the Hornady Superformance, as well as the Federal line (.270 HE with Trophy-Tipped, Nosler Partition, and Barnes TSX).

An important in fact, critical consideration is having good factory ammo with good availability. I can always load Nos. Ballistic Tips for practice.

forepaw

Tikka in .270 or the Savage in 6.5x.284. Some of the drawbacks you list to the Tikka are valid, but the small port may be more a plus (stiff receiver=accuracy) than a minus. The 6.5-284 is more a handloader's proposition, but boy can they shoot. The weights would be very different, by the way.

A Leupold with a CDS is hard to beat, but the Conquest and Minox are worth a look as well.

Fall of 2008, I bought two Rem 700 CDL SF Limited's in 260 Rem. One for me and one for my oldest daughter.

The first I had a local 'smith touch up the crown, free float the barrel, glass and pillar bed the action and bring the trigger to 2.5 lbs. I then took 16 different bullets from the 100 gr Sierra HP to numerous 140's and about 1/2 dozen different powders. During the early winter months of 2009, I discovered this rifle had no less than 15 different bullet/powder combo's that would hold 3-shots into MOA and better; some much better.

The second rifle, I, myself, free floated the barrel and touched up the trigger to 2.5 lbs. I didn't put near the amount of load development into it but it's still got several 1-1/2 MOA loads with the 140 Sierra spbt and 140 Partitions.

With the right scope, either is easily a 600 yd deer rifle.

Alan

Nice...The Extreme Weather I previously posted with the VX3 3.5-10x40 with CDS shoots like this with el cheapo 180 gr. winchester powerpoints and equally as well with partitions and hornady interlocks. One of these days I'll use a good quality bullet in it and see how chit flies :



These groups were shot during load development (not as accurate as my pre 64 model 70 std weight 30-06 but it works out well enough).....

Having given the more accurate of the two to my daughter, I've yet to put a true LR scope on it. For now, it holds a VXII 2-7 with the LR reticle; the scope I used to develop the loads with. I thought I had more pics of the many of my groups; mostly data in an EXCEL file. Here are a few.





Alan

Very nice Alan. I'm an admirer of your rifles. You've got some dandies (especially your model 70's). I think what you hit on for accuracy was spot on as it pertains to the op's question of "out to 500 yards". Although we both know after that 600 yard mark, we generally reach for our better performing rifles. My 300 wsm is one I go to and it looks like my 7mm rem mag is showing some good potential with the 162 A-max. These 2 rifles generally and consistently shoot like this:

300 wsm 10 shot group:


300 wsm 5 shot group:


Also have a pre 64 model 70 std weight 30-06 that is pillar bedded, full glass bedded and freefloated that shoots like this:

(ONE time)

Generally it is a sub moa shooter like this (5 shots @ 100 yards):

Good enough for 500 yard shooting

I guess I can't really say it any better than that.

A7 in 7 wsm

Drawbacks?..........................

Why do you feel you have to access a Tikka ejection port? Pop the mag in, pop the mag out. How hard is that?

Why do you think you need spare mags? Do you think Badger mags are any cheaper? Or Wyatt's? On your rifles with hinged floorplate, do you carry extra bottom metal in your pack, in case the set on your rifle falls off? When you push a Tikka mag in, and hear the "click", it isn't going anywhere.

^ Agreed. Never had a problem with the T3 mag or ejection port. I've hunted my T3 hard in the mountains after sheep, and I've never had the mag just fall out on me...

Basically, single loading for sighting in and practicing. Being able to thumb in a couple rounds if a wounded animal is getting away, instead of dropping out the mag, finding the spare and clicking into place, then finding the empty, especially in bad weather or poor light. It is not really a problem, as I use blind magazines, detachable mags, and detach. floorplates. I like Tikkas, but it is one more thing to have to buy.

forepaw

get a savage in .243 wearing a burris FF2 ballistic plex scope. put 95 grain NBT's over Varget. practice with it, and go forth and kill stuff.

Only 22 pics of targets shot at 100 yds?

I'm disappointed....

You'll get 4,294 opinions on which combo is the best. In truth, many set ups will get the job done.

Buy a rifle that fits you and is comfortable, don't get a jaw busting caliber - it's not necessary, depending on what game your after, common sense will suffice.

A reputable scope in 3-9x42 or 2.5-10 in most any flavor with an elevation dial or ballistic reticle will allow you to kill animals at distance if you put a lot of time in practicing from actual field positions - (Benches with rests don't count)

Killing game at distance has more to do with the shooter's ability than the rifle/scope combo he's using, as long as it's reliable.

A fella could do worse than one of Melvin's new guns and grab a 3-9x40 vxll(they been goin cheap)then add a m1.

Simply the best? If weight is the primary concern the absolute best would be a Blaser K95 probably in 6.5x65R, and for a scope i would chose one of the 1" Swarovskis.

If i wanted a repeater, i'd be looking at the Sakos - either an A7 or an 85 synthetic, probably in 270 WSM. If you could find a Shultz and Larsen Classic, i'd put it in there too. I think you would find the T3 just as accurate as the Sakos though. I have always thought in hunting-weight rifles accuracy potential (once bedding etc is taken out of the equation) is all about the barrel, and from what i have seen i think the Sako/Tikka barrels are currently the best factory barrels. I regularly see them keeping up with fancy boutique-brand offerings.

It sucked donkey balls before it was rebarreled, didn't it?

500 yards is a long way, but I can't see that any factory sporter weight offering is going to be whole bunch better than anything else, provided you practice with it and load for it properly.

There really is no "best" and I'd grab a new SC M70,a Rem 700,or most anything.Work up a good load and mount a good scope,practice.An extreme Weather in 300 WSM or 7mm WSM would be excellent....I have had the 300 WSM and know this first hand.

A 270 or 30/06,anything in that range will work just fine with a 6X Leupold and LR reticle.

I picked up a Ruger Hawkeye 7 Rem Mag about 5 years ago,mounted a 2-7 Leupold on it...it threw strikes from the get go at 500 with no tuning and 150 gr Federal Fusions.

Yep. I've posted before that these days it's tough to find a factory rifle that ISN'T accurate. For the purposes of the original poster, I'd look to any of today's factory rifles with free-floated barrels, any cartridge from the .243 Winchester on up that doesn't kick too much for him, and any scope from 6x on up with a multi-point reticle or consistent tracking. Consistent 500-yard shooting really doesn't require special equipment.

That's not a real sexy pick, but it's a pretty damn smart one.

This is my mountain rifle 257 WBY ultralight



Shoots 110 Accubonds at 3500+ fps at .6" groups

That's a fine looking rig there. It sure turns my bolt.

That makes it respectable shooting for just about everybody on here......



Casey

Casey and others,

That really is an overlooked item. Accuracy when you're rested can be much different than when you are near-exhausted, dehydrated, trying to figure out cross-canyon breezes, and hold on the vital zone of something moving, or laying at a strange angle in the shade, maybe with a bush in front of it that you can't see with your scope, all from a makeshift rest.

My interest in this post involves planning a rifle for Coues Whitetail hunting, but the conditions are often similar to desert sheep (and probably california and rocky as well) in terms of the physical effort required, use of high-powered optics, and long stalks.

That said, I thought there were some first rate replies from very experienced folks, most of whom more or less echoed something jack O'Connor wrote years ago . . . essentially that the closest thing he ever owned to a perfect mountain rifle was a lightweight .270 with a 22" barrel, good optics, and sling. But he was an awesome rifleman, much cooler and more experienced than most of his counterparts, and with a fair amount of high-power target shooting under his belt - which gave him an edge in understanding wind and bullet behavior.

forepaw