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Posted By: BagABuck Interesting Range Experience - 01/05/13
Alright, I have a picture of the target but can't find a way to post it here. Anyways, I went to the range today and I decided to pull out the 30-06 again. Same load, H3031 with 180 grain speer bullets. I decided to try and get the best group possible using only one sandbag at 100 yards, which is similar to how I would shoot while hunting. Ended up shooting a .8 inch group, subtract the bullet diameter and I shot a half inch group. I am absolutely shocked by this. This is an old rifle with quite a bit of marks on it, shooting loads that barely fit the chamber topped with a blurry little Tasco 3x9. To think, if you were to improve the load, get a better scope, and free float the barrel I bet that rifle could shoot .5 inch groups easily. The question is, why? Does anybody have an idea as to why this thing is so accurate. Compared to my .308 that I can barely shoot 2 inch groups this is pretty good.

By the way, if I can bring myself to get an Ackley I might end up getting a .280 AI, if not 6.5x 284 for sure.
Must be one of swampy's old remingtons.
Quote
The question is, why?


In my experience, unless there is a mechanical issue, or an ammo incompatibility issue, most rifles will shoot sub-moa.

If my scoped rifles shoot greater than sub-moa, or my iron sighted rifles shoot greater than 2moa, I investigate; I'd be more concerned about the "why" with the 308. smirk
Ruger M77.
Originally Posted by BagABuck
The question is, why?


No it's not. To be or not to be? That is the question.
Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by BagABuck
The question is, why?


No it's not. To be or not to be? That is the question.
laugh
H3031?
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
H3031?


Must have been a special run lot of powder
- no wonder it was so accurate... smile
Posted By: Royce Re: Interesting Range Experience - 01/07/13
H3031 is particulary accurate with Sierra Ballitic Tips and Nosler Grand Slams...
Originally Posted by Royce
H3031 is particulary accurate with Sierra Ballitic Tips and Nosler Grand Slams...


grin grin
A real good friend of mine that mentored me in rifle shooting many years ago always had a saying when ever I would shoot real good group at long distance:" The wind can just as easily blow the bullets into a tight group as it can blow them out of tight group" laugh
It was consistent. I shot 3 sub moa groups that day, no wind at all, perfect conditions.
I would use Varget or something along those lines, but I wasn't there when my grandpa reloaded them and he's kinda set on that powder. He thinks of that powder like some people think a .270 is the best and flattest shooting round. But I honestly don't know if I should improve the load or not considering how well it worked.
You really need to work on the load.

Have you fully prepped the brass?
1. Uniform Primer pockets
2. De-burr flash holes
3. Neck turn and inside neck ream to no more than .003" neck thickness
4. Trim all brass exactly after using chamber length gauge
5. Chamfer with VLD tool
6. Anneal
7. Use redding FL bushing die for .001" neck tension
8. Stoney Pointe tool to determine OAL. Ruger's like no more than .01263" of jump!
9. Polish with stainless steel media with cat litter buffer
10. Use only Winchester 209 shotshell primers. Don't ask me why, I just know. If you can't get them to seat, refer to "Handloading for Dummies" manual
11. Use mica dry lube after you polish the inside of the necks with fine steel wool
Then seat bullets. Use only Winchester bulk bullets. Awesome! Seat bullets pointy end first. Micrometer SEATER die will help
12. I forgot. Lyman dippers for charging cases. Level off with pocket knife
13. Check concentricity of each loaded round. If more than .0002" exists, use collet bullet puller and disassemble rounds and start over. Try to diagnose where you went wrong.

If really master this process, your gun should shoot around .9" groups

Oh, I just read that it is already shooting .8" now.

NEVERMIND!

laugh
Originally Posted by rcamuglia
You really need to work on the load.

Have you fully prepped the brass?
1. Uniform Primer pockets
2. De-burr flash holes
3. Neck turn and inside neck ream to no more than .003" neck thickness
4. Trim all brass exactly after using chamber length gauge
5. Chamfer with VLD tool
6. Anneal
7. Use redding FL bushing die for .001" neck tension
8. Stoney Pointe tool to determine OAL. Ruger's like no more than .01263" of jump!
9. Polish with stainless steel media with cat litter buffer
10. Use only Winchester 209 shotshell primers. Don't ask me why, I just know. If you can't get them to seat, refer to "Handloading for Dummies" manual
11. Use mica dry lube after you polish the inside of the necks with fine steel wool
Then seat bullets. Use only Winchester bulk bullets. Awesome! Seat bullets pointy end first. Micrometer SEATER die will help
12. I forgot. Lyman dippers for charging cases. Level off with pocket knife
13. Check concentricity of each loaded round. If more than .0002" exists, use collet bullet puller and disassemble rounds and start over. Try to diagnose where you went wrong.

If really master this process, your gun should shoot around .9" groups

Oh, I just read that it is already shooting .8" now.

NEVERMIND!

laugh


You guys crack me up- everyone knows that you can't seat bullet pointy side down with .01263" of jump! The ogive won't have sufficient neck tension to be concentric to the bore. You're going to have this poor kid so confused about reloading, shooting, etc.... he'll be afraid to drop his pants to crap in the woods without checking in with the forum first..... wink

Bob
ShagADuck,

I would personally consider running the 110 TNT for it's superior wind bucking capabilities compared to the 180s you're shooting currently. They rock out to 1500 for me out of my 30 Remington AR.
That's just how you roll.
That's all I have to say about that.
Originally Posted by Tanner
ShagADuck,

I would personally consider running the 110 TNT for it's superior wind bucking capabilities compared to the 180s you're shooting currently. They rock out to 1500 for me out of my 30 Remington AR.




This mirrors my experience.

Tanner not only rolls, he rocks!


I do believe this gentleman is shooting the same load I use- 110 TNTs over 69gr of IMR 7892sdsc.
Originally Posted by EddyBo
Must be one of swampy's old remingtons.


Yep.....
Originally Posted by Sheister
Originally Posted by rcamuglia
You really need to work on the load.

Have you fully prepped the brass?
1. Uniform Primer pockets
2. De-burr flash holes
3. Neck turn and inside neck ream to no more than .003" neck thickness
4. Trim all brass exactly after using chamber length gauge
5. Chamfer with VLD tool
6. Anneal
7. Use redding FL bushing die for .001" neck tension
8. Stoney Pointe tool to determine OAL. Ruger's like no more than .01263" of jump!
9. Polish with stainless steel media with cat litter buffer
10. Use only Winchester 209 shotshell primers. Don't ask me why, I just know. If you can't get them to seat, refer to "Handloading for Dummies" manual
11. Use mica dry lube after you polish the inside of the necks with fine steel wool
Then seat bullets. Use only Winchester bulk bullets. Awesome! Seat bullets pointy end first. Micrometer SEATER die will help
12. I forgot. Lyman dippers for charging cases. Level off with pocket knife
13. Check concentricity of each loaded round. If more than .0002" exists, use collet bullet puller and disassemble rounds and start over. Try to diagnose where you went wrong.

If really master this process, your gun should shoot around .9" groups

Oh, I just read that it is already shooting .8" now.

NEVERMIND!

laugh


You guys crack me up- everyone knows that you can't seat bullet pointy side down with .01263" of jump! The ogive won't have sufficient neck tension to be concentric to the bore. You're going to have this poor kid so confused about reloading, shooting, etc.... he'll be afraid to drop his pants to crap in the woods without checking in with the forum first..... wink

Bob


WTF, I thought that's why we have our smiths add more freebore. Nothing like a loooooong throat...
I can tell by the way he wears his hat that he seats bullets the way I recommend.

My god. Some of the people on here crack the best jokes.
If you don't believe me I can email you a picture of the group, had a couple <1 MOA groups but I kept the best one. Although that was a pretty hilarious post if I do say so.
Originally Posted by rcamuglia
I can tell by the way he wears his hat that he seats bullets the way I recommend.


I look at the cut of his jib, it's much more telling.
Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by rcamuglia
I can tell by the way he wears his hat that he seats bullets the way I recommend.


I look at the cut of his jib, it's much more telling.


Yep

Shoots in his bath robe. Comfortable enough to simply dip the 7892sdsc
He throws his charges of 7892sdsc (wayyy slower burning than Retumbo, and super duper short cut) I believe. Says his ES stays well below 3.
Well, that explains it. Those new IMR powders sure are versatile.

He likes to cant the rifle, huh? Must have something to do with the hat or maybe the ugly angle of the targets on that slope.
Ask Kawi, he'll know.
How many shots in your best group and how many groups did you fire? Apart from setting some sort of record, what's important is the size of group you can reliably fire. Without getting too deep into statistics, if you fired 5 groups and averaged their size what would it be? If it's under 1 MOA you have a fine shooting gun. Apart from getting a better scope and playing with the loads I would leave it alone as you might free float the barrel and find you get worse accuracy.
On average I would say that 1 inch groups are average. I'm not the greatest shot, but i'm confident I can outshoot that rifle. My question is, do i need to bother upgrading anything considering it's already shooting better than what it's supposed to? I honestly don't know if I were to throw a Nightforce on it it would help anything.
I would stick a Hensoldt up top and watch it shine.
Originally Posted by BagABuck
i'm confident I can outshoot that rifle.


That's no big deal, I'm always outshooting my rifles. They're only MOA rifles, but I can shoot 'em at a half inch.
Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by BagABuck
i'm confident I can outshoot that rifle.


That's no big deal, I'm always outshooting my rifles. They're only MOA rifles, but I can shoot 'em at a half inch.

LOL!!! You ain't right...... grin
Originally Posted by BagABuck
On average I would say that 1 inch groups are average. I'm not the greatest shot, but i'm confident I can outshoot that rifle. My question is, do i need to bother upgrading anything considering it's already shooting better than what it's supposed to? I honestly don't know if I were to throw a Nightforce on it it would help anything.


You can always experiment with loads just for the fun of it, but when it comes to spending money on a gun that already shoots better than expected it comes down to what you want to use that gun for, how much money you have, and what you're getting for your money. If it's a rifle you intend to use a lot then a better scope might be worthwhile, particularly given how you described the current scope.

I see ads where manufacturers brag about 3 shot MOA groups such as on page 71 of the February issue of Guns & Ammo. People on this forum would consider that a starting point rather than something to be proud of. What it tells me, however, is that it's not easy to manufacture hunting rifles with sub-MOA accuracy. You could spend good money on your old rifle and find that it's no more accurate than it is now and maybe a lot worse.
Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by BagABuck
i'm confident I can outshoot that rifle.


That's no big deal, I'm always outshooting my rifles. They're only MOA rifles, but I can shoot 'em at a half inch.



The very mark of a man who is at the top of his game judging those by the cut of their jib.

laugh
No big deal, I stuck a Hensoldt on it like Tanner said. NEF single shot.
The Hensoldt was designed for the NEF single shot. whistle
I know, I was on the design team.
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