I've a few questions for you guys about a rifle I'm cobbling together.

1) What are you 243 A.I. guys using for dies? I'm looking at the 2 die Redding set (neck sizer and seater). Will I want to have a body die, or will touching the shoulders be completely unnecessary?

2) For those of you that have had 700 barrels punched out, are you having them set back to kiss lands from the mag? Looking at some 243 Win dummies with 105 A-Maxes, it seems that a 2.8" COAL leaves the base of the bullet right at the Neck/Shoulder junction.

Redding FL dies and LCD. The FL die is for bumping the shoulder every few loadings, which does need to happen, LCD for neck-sizing, and the Redding seater works for me when it comes to bullet seating.

Yes, set back a thread, punch AI to kiss the 105AM at mag-length. An OAL of 2.813" kisses the AM for me, and the junction of the boat tail and the bearing surface sits right around (just a hair under) the neck-shoulder junction of the brass. An OAL of 2.820" might be perfect for lining up those two reference points.

If on the cheap, a take-off 700 barrel in .243 can be worked to a pretty decent outcome. If screwing on a premium tube anyway, I'd skip the crap and go right to a .260 if you plan on using the rifle a lot on game larger than deer. Not that the .243 can't handle it, just that the 140AM type bullets might be a bit better choice for the task of elk/moose/bear.

Both of these pics are at 2.813"

Jord, someone graciously offered me an SS 24" 700 tube that's already been punched out A.I.

I'll have my smith check where it's at in accordance to lands/mag restraints when he puts the sucker on there, and if it doesn't jive I'll ask if he can set it to a kiss at 2.815", so my loaded rounds sit around 2.810".

You're using IMR 4350, correct? I was thinking 78282ssc as a first thought, but if 4350 will do it...

BTW... those loaded rounds are absolutely dead sexy.

Sweet! That's a nice fella, whoever it is!

Why load your ammo 0.005" shy of a kiss? Unless it shot better that way, of course, but there's no reason not to start at the start...

Yup, 43.5gr of IMR4350 for around 3113fps on the chronograph, but my drops match the data for 3157fps. I have lots of 7828ssc, but I also have about 8lbs of IMR4350, with nothing but the .243AI to use it in. So far, I can't really ask for more than IMR4350 gives me, except for maybe 100fps more velocity Absolutely great accuracy, pretty good velocity, and I haven't noticed any real temperature sensitivity in this application. Once that IMR4350 gets burned through, I'll likely try H4350 or even H4831sc. I'm sure 7828ssc would work wonderfully, as well.

Just in the last couple months I've found my A-Maxes like jumping .005", but the 105s could be totally different. You can bet I'll start at the start and kiss 'em... grin

I only lean 7828ssc because of my obsession with consolidation, and getting down to 3 powders for all of my reloading would be spectacular ... although I use 4350 in the 25/06, as well.

This is going to be THE year of the .243 AI...

It's like the plague.

Tanner,

As long as the tube headspaces properly, I wouldn't worry about mag constraints on a factory tube. If it's too long, it'll have to be set back, and the new reamer run in again, and/or use a throating reamer. Also, many rounds down the barrel at this point is tough on reamers. Just throwing money down a [bleep] hole. Plus, you want it under 2.800" so you can chase the lands.

Burn it up, and you'll have brass for the new tube.

But then at the rate you've been moving, it'll be down the road and you'll be on to the next adventure before you know it.....

Thanks aalf. It sounds like there's around 200 rounds on this barrel, which doesn't seem to be too bad, but I'm sure you're right on the reamer thing... I'll see what the Dr. says.

Hey, as long as I keep the action it doesn't count as tripping it

And I won't say you told me so on that 6.5 Lapua.... grin

It's not like I'm callin' the kettle back or anything.....

The big brown truck just dropped off my new toy/project/LR plinker.....

You should be able to massage about 0.020" of headroom in the mag box to chase lands if you throat to kiss the 105AM at 2.815". Go to AICS mags, and you won't even have to concern yourself with mag length- just throat to seat the bullet's BT/bearing surface junction at the base of the neck...

Spill your guts!

I just bought 800 105 A-Maxes for 18/100 so they better 'effin' shoot.

WHY CAN'T I FIND A DEAL LIKE THAT?!!!

I hate you.

I pay about 50% more than that, when/if I can ever find any!

Or a Wyatts....it'll be at the smith's

Ha ha.....not yet....

Yup, just get it done all in one shot while it's there...

I honestly don't know how I found the deal, but I bought everything they had. I just spent the money I made from selling my 178s... Laughin'.

Would a Wyatt's be a pretty easy install and function well with a BDL Bottom metal?

I run one on my 260...works just fine, and it'll go to 2.995", give or take...

Based on the comments of several very trusted individuals, including a couple of well-respected guys from the 'fire, Wyatt's doesn't seem to have the same quality and fitment as the AICS BM's, such as the Atlas...*hint*

My AICS mags are 2.920" with the re-enforcing plate installed (more of a concern for military applications), and 2.995" with it removed.

I agree with that assessment... the Wyatts feels like a lighter metal is used over the factory mag box. I did have to tweak it a bit to keep the rounds in the box IIRC, but regardless, it wasn't a big deal.

Weight and cost over the other BM's was the deciding factory for me on that build.

I'll probably run the factory mag box until I upgrade barrels, and then get fancy from there.

A tumbler, Lyman moly, and 800 105s sit atop my bench... McM Mountain Rifle w/ BDL bottom bondo finish sans recoil pad is inbound, along with an SS 24" 700 takeoff already punched 243 A.I.... I'm told this tube kissed 105s at 2.762" on the previous action, so I'm interested to see where it's at once headspaced onto my own. If I can control it whatsoever, I'll have the Dr. set it to kiss at 2.8", in order to use up allllll that good powder column.

I will likely clear coat the stock, and run it as long as I can stand the Ugly Duckling Bondo look, glue on a pink flip flop pad, and bed/float the sucker. Talley LWs with a 3-9x40 M1 ele in the saddle will do the lookin'.

Anybody got's a weight guess? By my best estimation, it should be a skosh over 7.5# with 3 in the gut.

For anybody that GAF...

Tanner, what contour is the takeoff? Sounds like its going to be a great project. Have you Molly's before or is this your first go?

I would think your smith can throat that to whatever the hell you want. Those 105 Amax kick ass.

Sporter tube, and this'll be my first venture with moly. Hopefully it works out nicely.

The only reason I question being able to throat where I want is because like aalf pointed out, the barrel has had some rounds down it and might be tough on a reamer. I doubt that'll present an issue, though...

I wouldn't overthink the throating issue, it will fit it your magazine and shoot basically the same velocity regardless.

Might try moly coating only a hundred or so bullets first, to see if you like it. It's not too hard to remove, but still....
I quit using moly years ago, and wish I would've stopped earlier, as sacreligious as that sounds .

Why'd ya quit using it?

It seemed like the advantages were mostly in my mind, while the disadvantages (dirty to apply and deal with, cleaning cycles weren't much different) were enough that it just wasn't worth it. Mostly I just got lazy, quit applying it and didn't notice any difference, so I left it behind.

Then I tried UBC, which seemed to work better as far as helping out with less cleaning, and was a one time deal. No more moly for me!

Gotcha'. I didn't plan on chuckin' all 800 in the tumbler at the same time, so I'll definitely see how the first 100 or so work and shoot.

If I can find enough powder to shoot some bullets, I will be a happy camper.

I'm with PG, as for me and my barrels they won't see moly...grin

Short story, while back my 700/Mash took ill. I took it to my smith, he scoped it and proceeded to cuff me. Told me to look at the moly build up. He said if you can get rid of it it'll go back to shooting. Took some time but I got rid of it and low and behold the Mash went back to playing nice.

Now my 223 Ack didn't handle it that way so maybe all don't. But one very good tube did so that sealed it for this old perro.

Dober

I'm going to at least give the stuff a shot and see how the barrel reacts to it. If it doesn't jive, I'll scrub the sucker out and start naked,

Mine is a rem 700 short action with a new take off sporter
Rem 700 barrel like yours set back and reamed to seat bullets at 2.80" initially. I have been fireforming and tried a few newly formed brass with 105's and RE 15 with great results. No moly yet for me. Redding 3 die set and this is my second .243 AI. Still working up loads but just under 3000 fps now. Anybody using Retumbo powder for this one? Target is around 3100 fps depending on best accuracy. Check out the 6mm BR website if you have not already done so.

If all you want is 3100fps, then I'd suggest you load up 43.5gr IMR4350, and I bet your groups will be impressive. Speed should be right close to 3100.

Interesting.....as Moly cannot build up on itself......

I would forget about moly and just Dyna-Bore Coat.

+1. The 2.762" will not take any noticeable volume over a 2.8" on powder capacity and the 2.762" will allow you to chase the lands a little more.

John

Thanks for the thoughts. I'll be interested to see how close it headspaces out and what adjustments are needed... Leaving it short of 2.8" is probably a good idea I suppose.

aalf,

Yes, moly can build up. Kevin Thomas proved that years ago with extensive tests at the Sierra lab.

He found out it built up in the throat area over about a 50-round cycle to the point where accuracy suffered, then the excess blew out and accuracy came back--sometimes.

I often saw the same thing when I was fooling with moly a decade or so ago, which is why I also much prefer DBC .

I was hitting 3000 today in a standard 243 with a 22" barrel. Didn't see any signs of pressure, but I was a little surprised with the velocity. My first go round with the 105...

SAS-how much and of what were you driving?

Thx
Dober

41.5 of RL17. No pressure signs, but velocity was a little higher than expected.





I stopped there when I saw the velocity. I've loaded a few at 42 to try in the morning. Plan on running them over the chrony and will examine the brass.

I will add that I ran 3 through the screens at that charge and 3017 was the fastest. I also saw 2991 and 3003. I'm gonna play around more tomorrow.

Thx, I must of missed it but what'd you get for a .243? Also would be interesting to see how long the primer pockets stay reasonably tight.

I believe that the Aliant site calls for 40.8 with a 100 grainer. So far my experience with R17 has been that with every cartridge I've tried it with the load on the site was Max in my guns. Some of my loader friends concur as well.

Keep me in the loop as to how many loadings you can get thru and keep the pockey's tight.

Thx
Dober

Mark,

I try to always keep a 243 on hand. You might laugh, but I was shooting a Ruger American Rifle. I had one in 243 when they first hit the shelves, sold it and bought another a few months later. Both have been tack drivers.

I wanted a 9 twist 243 to try this bullet and this was all I could find locally.

I started at 39grs and worked up. I have some loaded at 41 I'm going to try too. I'm guessing 41.5 is on the warm side. That's Hornadys max for that bullet, but velocity is in the 2900's out of a 24" barrel.

Does the newest Horn manual carry R17 data?

And the .243's long been a fav of mine as well. One heck of a good round!

Dober

My 8th edition has lots of RL17 data. Primer pocket life interests me too! Actually, I'd be happy with an accurate load at 2900.

I've not done much with a .243 for some time but from the old school powders like 4350 and 4831's I'd be very happy with 2900 out of a 22" with a 105.

Dober

In the sporter barrel, I will take whatever I can get over 3100 but not at the expense of accurracy, barrel life and case life. I have another one with a varmint barrel that I push harder and the throat is eroding after only about 1000 rounds. On the fourth loading of the cases and primer pockets still ok in that one. I will try the IMR 4350 load you suggest and see.

Dober, the 9th Hornady manual shows RL-17 for the .243 Win with 24" barrel in their rifle and powder charges range from 35.9 to 41.5 and velocity with the 105 grain A-max ranges between 2500 at the low end to 2900 at the high end.

SAS, how was the accuracy with your first couple loads?

Retumbo spat out 3030fps from a 24" tubed SAAMI 243 for me... looks like '17 is kicking butt.

Not bad. First group was low and off the paper (but on the target backer). It was probably 1.5ish. I mounted a new scope and had shot it at 25 with another load. The second group was better, close to an inch. I'm going to shoot a little more this afternoon. I'll have a better idea then.

Yesterday's group after adjustments.....

I plan to shoot at 200 today. Maybe that will tell me more. Hopefully by next weekend I'll be ready to start walking it out a little.

This stuff cracks me the [bleep] up!

I've shot/shoot moly in over 100 of my own barrels and have yet to see a downside...but I'm of course all ears and look forward to naysayers.(grin) Pards are good for a few hundred more spouts,if only as a gross understatement and I'm thinkin' all case capacities and bore sizes,are more than comfortably covered in the extrapolation.

I know,I know...it's hygroscopic too and the bane of a "moist" climate. I love all of that schit,which is why I reside in the Desert at a lofty elevation as a safety net! Laffin'!

Now as to a SAAMI 243Win and twist rates,both Rem and Ruger will easily stabilize 105's and are routinely throated nicely in conjunction with their magboxes,so as to allow a VLD 'Max kiss. Them is good things.(hint)

'17 is a very nice way to fly in the SAAMI hull with 105's,but I jump to '22 in the AI version with same.

(addendum for 'smoker)

42grs of '17 in R/P hulls lit with 200's and a moly 105'Max kiss,makes right at 3K fps in a SAAMI chamber/OEM spout...though a guy could certainly lean harder on 'em. ES/SD is in the 10fps realm,with .003" neck tension.


(Re-addendum for works)

Now saltwater and hard use in a wet climate,will affect CM parts/pieces and that's for certain...why is why I [bleep] HATE same. The Rocktucky had an OEM CM follower spring puke the other day,though it's bore hasn't seen so much as a mop in 1500rds + of 75A-Max. I've broken springs before,but never into 3pcs,which is currently my "record".(grin)








She was back in the saddle,the next morning.



And the day after that.

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Hosed it off purty good yesterday,schlepping it from pre-dawn 'til past dark in the wet.

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243AI Faux Ti wayyyyyyyyyyyyy up in the Desert,day before last.

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I remain a fan of shooting bores dry and the use of multiple applications of tape,throughout the day,upon muzzles.

Also a fan of an opening stance that states: "My Gunsmith says...". Cracks me the [bleep] up,that folks who cain't even shoot enough to inform themselves,feel compelled to give "answers" to others. Dumb [bleep] couldn't knock the new offa used pair of boots.

Laffin'!

Amen. I'd shoot moly rim fires if they were available. I've only one rifle left to convert to moly but the thought of scrubbing to bare steel first makes me want to donate it to Goodwill instead as I'd rather have trigger time with the others.

Still waiting to see the carnage from salt water and moly but my hunch is that I'll kill bigfoot first.

Boxer,

Thanks for the addendum.

While I don't have any .243 AI's I have three SAAMI .243's and a barrel in waiting..

When shooting jacketed bullets my default dies are Redding Type S Full Size Bushing Die, RCBS Competition Seater die (I like clicks), and Redding Competition shell holders..
You control your headspace with the various sized (thickness) shell holders..
Midsouth often sells Redding and RCBS dies individually...

No need for a body die, although they or a form & trim die are handy for necking down larger caliber and or longer brass to better fit/fill your chamber on initial fire forming..

Larry, what fishing line do you use?

Can springs be made from SS and hold tension?

Already [bleep] up and ruined 2013,by catching the biggest [bleep] fish of the year...right outta da gate,which sorta sucks.

I don't have to worry about topping a 43" Hen this year(or any other),though I reckon I'll bump a few pickle Bucks before all the dust settles. The Old Gal was heavy and deep and 23" girth is slighting her,but I didn't find the tape in my pack,until after the fact and she swam away. So I gotta sandbag conservative with the girth,beings I didn't quantify it. 43"x23" is some SERIOUS heft. Shame I didn't catch her on the GL3 1141S I had in tow,instead of the POS Sage,as it was in the cards and I'll kick myself forever over that one.







PowerPro braid has no equal and I drive it expressly. Leader material is always Maxima Chameleon,because it too has no equal and fends abrasion like nothing else. When sumptin' new comes out,I drive it hoping for it to take the cake,but nuttin' has as of yet and I'm still waiting. I run 30# PP even on my beloved 4-8# UL 1141-S's,whether it 2500 or 3000 series Stradics. A nice combination of capacity,muscle and minimal memory. I run 30# PP on 5000 Stradics too,on a few Loomis Float rods,for fending big water after a gullywasher of a rain storm. Same goes all my Curado's and ABU Revo's,30# PP across the board. All the Pip's are stoked with 15# Chameleon typically,though I do like 18# and will slum 20# in big water or Tourney Fishing Coho for sheer volume numbers and braggin' rights with a herd of like minded azzholes trying to outnigger eachother.(grin) 20# will bank more fish before it pukes and Tourney volume is ALL about keeping a hook wet. If I can grind out a dozen fish on a single leader,before having to re-tie,I'm upping production.



I tend to drive smaller hooks and presentations than most and seldom go to a 1/0 for Steelhead and love 1's and 2's,especially Owner 'squito's and Matzuo Octopus. Got to fishing alotta sliders anymore and am hip on both brass and silver flashabou and often in conjunction. Can like a leetle glow in the dark flashabou too,for glow bugging and if someone can beat me to a river...they are assuredly having a very [bleep] good day,as it ain't in the cards.(grin)

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Got to tying up alotta flashabou in my jigs too and like it there as well,beings the pulsating action of maribou and the attraction of sparkles,is more than any self respecting Salmonid can resist. Yarn balls are a dirty [bleep] trick and really hang feesh hard,which do of course interest me more than a leetle. McFoam yarn sooooooooo rules.

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I'm a grinder and never was much into [bleep] around and I tend to go for the throat,whether it Castin' or Blastin' and especially in conjunction. I've lonnnggggggggg been a believer in GOOD riggin' and lots of it,as I tend to puke alotta schit in a typical year,so spare spares interest me a bunch,as I'm tough on riggin' and cain't want a second of down time. Every day is R&D in my book and if you ain't trying sumptin' new,you can get stuck in a rut and miss the boat...and it sure as [bleep] ain't gonna be me,behind the curve.

There's method to the madness and I drive an open mind,always scouring to find a better way....while simply spending the time to ascertain what do what and more importantly WHY.

Now as to CM parts and their failures,I've had several magboxes,followers and springs,coated with various schit and have long been of the anti-coating establishment(save CL bores,which I love and Robbie's NP3). Gimme S/S and [bleep] all the CM Window Licking bullschit,because it cain't begin to hang in hard use applications,which is all that I do. Tape muzzles,shoot bores dry at the end of the day and whistle moly for MUCH longer shot strings of consistent POA/POI intersection and keep all swabs,brushes,jags and fluff outta the [bleep] bore.

[bleep] the fluff,pass the good schit and get the [bleep] outta my road...because I'm going right ahead on schit,WFO and then some. This R&R is a wrap and it's back to the Salt Mines,so it'll give others a chance to try and catch up.(grin)

One hell of a fish there Boxer, nice photo's with it.

Damn sure killed this thread

Randy

I went down to 90 grain bullets in my AI as I liked the choices better in terms of a hunting bullet, and quite frankly, they shot little bitty groups (90 AB, 90 Scirocco). I'm running 44.5 of RL17 out of a 22.5 inch #1 Rock tube at 3300 fps. As Forest Gump would say, I like it uh lawt.

I'm definitely going to feel inclined to shoot some 85gr TSX out of this little beauty. It'd be nice to pop an elk or two with it!

Those Scirocco's are pretty wicked looking little suckers! Too rich for my blood, though.

Cheaper than Barnes. Boxes are 100 count.....

That's funny you just said that, I looked up prices on a hunch that the Swifts' came in packs of 100!

My bad

I'm planning to try the 75SSII in my 223 AI. The 130SSII is wicked in my 260. Probably the only 6.5 bullet I'll shoot hunting in the near future.

If they work for Pat on big toothy stuff in Alaska....

Dangit, now I want to try some

'48,

Talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words.(grin)

The main thing is to just shoot,as there is correlation to good practice upping one's "luck".




'traylor,

It's tough to beat the 85X/87V-Max swapaloo...if a guy is gonna stay shy of upper echelon BC's. POA/POI intersects nicely,load data shares nicely and both will perform in all things OEM,regarding twist and throating.

Never could like AccuBomb's,though I do suffer some S2's now and again. Were I unable to fling 105's,it'd be the 85/7 melding for me.

At quite a bit better than 3300.





'smoker,

The .224" 75S2 by and large,has a purty schitty profile and alotta bearing surface...though it do have a fairly rugged jacket.

L-R: 50V-Max,75HPBT Hornie.75S2,75'Max




S2 22-250AI Buck.



It's the 75A-Max for me and were I to deviate,it'd be to the 62TSX(not TTSX). 62TSX amidship,with a nekked 60V-Max to it's left and the 62TTSX to it's right,if only for conversation.



I'm done with S2's.






Tanner,

If I could save the jack to visit Alaska,I'd take sumptin' 30cal at least and prolly more likely a .338".

It'd give me a reason to buy a new rifle.

I have several 62TSX's for the 223AI. I have no 75S2's....nor have I done the mag box modification yet. That's my next project for the AI. I do have several of the 75A-Max's to play with.

Having never shot either 75 from the 223AI, I'm guessing the velocity/pressure edge goes to the A-Max because of bearing surface. What's the real world velocity difference between the two?

I know I'm not guessing that you've tried both. You chose the A-Max for a reason.....

Great pic of the old man.

I was personally thinking a guy would be batschit to take anything less than .375 Ultra... those critters require tons of energy and SD to kill.

I repeat... ENERGY and SD.... grin

knock down power!

'smoker,

The Box Mod is both a mandate and a breeze. Most of my 223AI's kiss the 75A-Max shy of 2.500" COAL,though my LTR punched out,do Linda Lovelace things greater than that dimension...but still feed/functions fine despite the smallest spacer of the fleet.

The 75 S2 will make quite a bit more pressure at a like powder charge and I tend to skin it .5gr or so. The A-Max is just oh sooooooooooooo svelte. The difference in speeds ain't huge,but you don't wanna swap 'em to/fro and like for like.

The 75A-Max rates building a rifle aropund.

Hint.(grin)







'338,

It's EPIC,as a minimum.







Tanner,

I'm taking notes.

Another post without pictures. You're slippin'.

The picture is getting purtier! Still need to pick up some Rl-17, as well..



My first go 'round with moly. worked pretty dang well...

H4350 is nonexistent here! I have a few pounds left, but looking for more. The shelves are getting pretty bare....

It looks like your moly project worked well. When you going to have it all screwed together?

There ain't much 4350 in there, I probably won't even try it because like you said, it's pretty much extinct. That's just a leftover can with about 1/4 in it.

The moly was super easy, left them in there for about 45 minutes in a tupperware can and buffed 'em out on a towel after.

I should get a chance to drop it off at the 'smith's on Monday or Tuesday!

Tanner,

I have a couple pictures for ya. Here's my Ruger American Rifle with the free bubba buddy and the Redfield Battlezone scope. $535 all up! Far from the most expensive tool in the shed, but it shoots. My complaint with the RAR -- the dang comb is too low even with low rings. I put the padded bubba buddy on and it raises my cheek enough for perfect alignment.



The 105 fits in the box with room to spare.



This may make you laugh even more, but I may have the thing punched and give it a paint job too. For now, it's just a fun little toy!

Nothing wrong with a 1-9" 243, I don't care what flavor! I'd run it!

Is that a 'couples' pic on the loading bench??? Ain't that sweet...gay, but sweet.

Moly's easy and it sounds like you did it as I do. I've found that it doesn't take anywhere 45min. Just in case you don't want to wait that long next time. Did you degrease first? I've not found that to be super necessary, except for Nosler B-Tips.

I didn't degrease... degreasing is gay I think you're totally right in that it could've been done in less time than that. Might've taken longer because I didn't have a ton of bullets in there resulting in less peening taking place...

Mickey Mtn Rifle is here... I've got to toss on a flip flop pad and decide if I want to paint it or not...

Nice!

I'd run it as is just to get the walnut crowd horned up.

Maybe plaster on a nekkid lady sticker to seal the deal.

That'll catch up to you.....more so with HP's....don't skip it.

FYI....I usually run 'em an hour and a half min....

As an alternative.


I punched an ADL 243 24 inch to 6mm-284. It fed better after the follower was switched out and replaced with a WSM follower. No need for set back.

The original magazine works well with the 284 round and bullets up to 95 gr ballistic tip are not seated too deeply.


So far accuracy (with this barrel)is disappointing. Definitely lethal on deer to 300 yds, but still not moa. Unfortunately I never fired the rifle with 243 ammo so I do not know if it might have been better in its original configuration.

Federal 6.5-284 brass is easy to find and necks down easily.

A Pacific two die set with a 25 cal neck die was purchased from a 'fire member.

My rifle makes 3300 fps w/ a 95 gr bal tip & H4831 or 3500 fps w/ the 85 gr Sierra spbt and RL17.

By catch up, do you mean the coating will start getting skimpy, splotchy, just schitty in general?

What's the preferred degreasing method?

The lube from making the bullets will eventually contaminate the moly, s/s balls, and the container that you use to moly plate with. It'll get to the point of not plating any more, just kind of a [bleep] coating that'll wipe off with little effort.

I use two plastic containers, chip dip/cottage cheese type, a couple of generous squirts of Dawn, and hot water. Play the mad scientist, pouring them back and forth in the two containers 15-20 times, eventually doing it under the faucet till the hot water runs clear. Dump them on a towel, hit 'em with a blow dryer till they're too hot to touch, and into the bowl, ready to plate.

Copy that, thanks aalf. I'll degrease the rest of these suckers.

I [bleep] up and just realized that stock doesn't have sling swivels... well that just ain't going to work!

Should I order up some, or do flush cups?

Depends on how you wanna carry and/or use a bipod.

I have both....just because....

Tan Man-

I am just starting to play with moly as well. Yours look better than mine!

I put about 350 bullets into a brand new tumbler with a lil less than 1/8 of a Tsp of moly for about an hour and a half, checking every 15 minutes or so. They look like [bleep]. Ain't coated to well and stil look copper hued.

I'm guessing the fact I didn't de-grease is the reason. New tumbler bowl prolly had some oil on it as well as the fact I had my greazy dik beaters in all the bullet boxes, as they were mostly full partials boxes I had loaded out of previously.

My plan is to wash out the bowl and bullets with some Dawn and start over.

Takes more moly the first go around......

I didn't degrease anything and mine looked like Tanner's, nice shiny and silver. Not much rubbed off while seating bullets, just a little off my thumb and forefinger and no change to the finish on the bullets.

A pink browning sticker and pink flip flop glued on and I'd call it good.

I slapped on a green flip flop pad... Still need to find a Duck Commander sticker.

Im diggin the bondo patch, reminds me of my first Chevy 1/2 ton

You get that stock right from McM?

Looks like we're doing very similar builds. Excellent taste Tan'.

I dig the bondo too. It'll still probably get paint slapped, though.

I got the stock from a liquidator. Thanks to prairie goat for the lead on it!

I just need some DBM to fit in with you and the other cool kids... perhaps later

You went Sako Hunter on yours, right?

What bottom metal are you planning? I missed the boat on that when I went adl on mine.

Ya Sako Hunter 50/50 black/white. If you go Atlas DBM and Jordan will let you into our super secret Canadian gun club.

Leave the stock unpainted! Looks pretty cool, as is

What he said.

Agreed!!

Sorry dudes.

Bastage. You would just do that.

Bolted together, this rifle might cause a couple eye herpes and heart attacks for walnut and blued lovers. But it'll be pretty.... to me

Everybody loves a good faux-Urban camo!

Dude, I thought those were flowers...

I thought you were a flower...

Love it! Is that fuggin mint green in there That thing gonna ugly 'em to death!

I'm like a rose-

I smell awfull purdy but pack quite a prick.

Might make for a tough sell when you put it in the classifieds next month

That's funny.

Laughin! I think I'll keep this one for at least a couple months.

Baby blue... grin

Saved for future reference .

Well let's set a few parameters here... a couple means 2 right?

But honestly... I can't see this one hitting the bricks. But I've said that before.

Raghorn has some shoes to match his rifle...they have you covered too

To me a Remington standard contour @22" in an Edge is about perfect. Guessing you'll keep this one.

Can't believe I just typed that.

What's that Edge weigh?

This stock weighed 1.5# before pad, paint, and bedding.

No idea, I never weighed it. It is 7# as it sits and balances just in front of the action screw.

Curious how much the pad, paint, and bedding added?

I'll let you know this weekend. I'm betting it is still well under 2lbs.

IIRC, my Edge was about 24oz's with a 1/2" pad.

I'd be interested to know, because whenever I've painted a stock, I've been surprised by how much weight it added. But then again, I probably go overboard on the number of coats applied.

Young bastard knows when to ruin a good thing....


Good thing it will likely shoot lights out. Thats your last line of defense.

Dude.... I just MADE a good thing.

Don't try to tell me you wouldn't run that and love every second of it.

Dont make me answer that question........

It's got Archiballs written all over it (it's under the paint).

There is NOTHING to NOT love about a sub 8lb 243 A.I. spittin' .5 BCs at 3100+. I can see this one being the gun to convert many non-believers...

I picked up a 700ADL 243 on the cheap today. Synthetic stock, old trigger, sights, see-thru's and a Hubble. The gun is in really good shape. I'm thinking I found a good platform for my 243AI.

Guess you don't need that Mtn Guide now...

Hell yes I do! Mtn Guide will stay a 7-08...

It ain't the performance he's criticizing....

I might try some nosler 107 grain custom comp HPBT's outta my .243 AI
Listed bc is .534
Hope I can achieve 3100 fps outta my 23" tube

I know what he's criticizing, I'm just sayin...

Awesome rig, Tom! What are you shooting out of it right now?

105 Amax's
85 TSX's

How are they shooting?

Loads?

I'll have to look my loads up and get back to you.
Don't have em with me.

And they both shoot pretty good....still doing load development so I'm not 100% settled.

Sweet. Those are the 2 bullets I'm most interested in, kind of funny you shoot 'em too.

The 85 X at 3400fps will knock the wet off of schit, no doubt...

Tan man,

You already know about my A-Max load, so I'll spare you the pics.

These squares are 1". Seated 0.050" off the lands, this was the first load tried with this bullet. Velocity is 3485fps from my 25.5" barrel.

Phew! That sucker shoots... Funny how those X bullets love to jump like that.

That's one I might have to give a try... definitely nice insurance for closer shots on game.

Yeah, that's a 0.56MOA group. I stopped development there. I might be just a wee bit sad when this factory Rem 700 barrel pukes. Then again, I can't shed a tear when screwing on a Krieger or Bartlein

I plan to carry the rifle with a 5-round AICS mag full of those TTSX bullets when hiking in to a stand, and the potential for close or jump shots exists, and then swap out for a mag full of the 105AM when I expect to shoot long.

It hits dead center POI wise compared to the 105 too right? Just a bit higher? That's awesome.

Blasphemy, I bet that factory 700 is cobby and has a TERRIBLE crown. I can see those powder burns on the target.

I like your thinking.

Yup, just 0.5MOA higher than the 105AM.

Surprisingly, nearly all of my rifles behave this way when I get it right at the reloading bench. A TTSX and a good LR bullet (usually an AM) hitting either the exact same POI, or the TTSX hitting just a tiny bit higher.

For conversation- The low shot was the fouler following a tube full of WO being swabbed from the bore. The next 2 TTSX bullets went into the same hole 1.5" above the fouler. 7WSM Montana and 140gr TTSX. 100 yards.



That group was immediately followed up with three 162gr AM fired at the next target over. Note POI compared to the 140TTSX.


When I work it just right, I can swap ammo completely interchangeably. Which one I grab simply depends on the application.

Sweet shooter.

What steps are you taking at the bench to try to achieve POI intersections between different bullets?

Jordan,

I'm not doubting your experience, but most rifles I've owned don't behave that way. It doesn't matter if its a 223AI, 243, 260, 7-08, etc. I shoot a bunch of TTSX's and my POI hasn't been the same with other (heavier) bullets yet. This being with all things considered --low SD/ES for each load.

I don't know why, but I've seen a trend of TTSX's being up and to the left. Not a bunch, maybe 1" to 1 1/2" both ways.

Your thoughts on this?

I've been able to achieve these results with the last 6 rifles that I've bought, as well as several more that I work on and load for for friends and family. I can't profess to have any sort of magic secret up my sleeve, but I do a few things that may contribute to this.

- I always bed the receiver, and make sure the barrel is completely floated

- I always make sure the barrel has a clean crown

- I tend to use medium-to-slow burning powders for any given cartridge, selecting appropriate powders for both the lighter TTSX bullets, and the heavier target bullet loads. I push the light TTSX and heavy AM/MK/Berger loads fairly hard

- I use DBC in the bore of every rifle I get my hands on

- I first establish the max powder charge for the powder and bullet I'm using, with the bullet squarely touching the lands (except for the TSX/TTSX bullets, which I start, and usually stop, at 0.050" off the lands), and then I fine tune groups by varying seating depth. If seating depth doesn't give me enough adjust-ability in finding the accuracy node, then I'll adjust the powder charge down by a couple of grains in 0.5gr increments for anything larger than .223, and 0.2gr for .223-size rounds. This often consequently changes POI, and you can select a load that has the same POI as your LR load

I'm very picky about the accuracy and consistency of my LR loads, but if I can achieve 1MOA or under with a TTSX I'm happy, since I don't expect to use the TTSX for anything over about 400 yards

My methods may not work for every rifle, but I've either been extremely lucky, or else something is working for me to get POI intersections between TTSX and heavy target bullets. I'm not sure which

Thanks, good info. I have a couple of new rifles to play with. Maybe my experience will mirror yours with these guns...

Have you tried RL-17 in your Ackley or has anyone for that matter?

I get 3400+ with stupid accuracy in my wife's 22 1/2" vanilla .243 with the 80 TTSX and a max load of RL-17 (I "think" it's 45 grains by memory).

Imagine what your 3+ inches of tube plus your Ackley chamber may be able to achieve - grin...

I haven't. I don't have a lot of it on hand, and I have several pounds of IMR4350. I'd like to try it at some point, though. I'd not be surprised to see 3500+ with the 80TTSX and a max charge of R17...

Greg,

'17 is one of the powders I plan to focus on with my rifle. I'll post all the results, and you can bet I'll try out some 80s-90s. This 80TTSX you guys are talking about has caught my eye.

+1 on the R-17 and the 80 TTSX. My sons SPS Varmint gets smoking velocity and outstanding accuracy with that mix.

I shot a ladder with RL-17 and the 80 TTSX with a Leupold 6x42 the first range trip I shot this combo with just to get a feel of accuracy /velocity potential.

At 300 yards, the last 5 charges went into less than a 2" cluster and the max was 3,400+. I think I even wrote "holy chit" on my range notes that day because of the accuracy/velocity combo.

Tuner, Im shooting the 80 TTSX out of a std 243 @3420 fps...super accurate, but I have not shot it at any distance past 300 yds...

Thanks ingwe. Mind if I ask what you're using to push it that quick? That's a smokin' load!

3420FPS from a standard .243 - W/80gr. TTSX is "SMOKIN" I too hope that recipe is shared!

RaNDY

Yall gonna talk me into doing another 243AI...well actually the pile of parts that I have accumulated is gonna necessitate it. I got a Short 700 a MCwoodie hunter with a red pad and a rock sendero contour 7.5T carbon fiber wrapped blank just laying around. Might have a jewell needing a home somewhere in some of the piles of junk. I don't need another 6BR or 6x284 right now, sooo. Probably do some scope swapping so I end up with leica scopes on both. I really like the leicas but hate being limited to 18 MOA of travel because of the zero stop.

Do it up Eddy! Sounds like you've got a couple "decent" pieces to toss together... grin

Wish I had crap like that laying around! Laughin'!

I'm looking forward to putting mine together. Actually, I'd like to put two together. One light and one a little beefier. To be honest, I usually grab the 243 for deer season around here anyway. A 243AI would just make it more better...

That Brux you just bought is saweeeet and I bet you could put a rifle together using it and have it come to about 8.5lbs all up if you are careful... kind of a midweight?

Two is better than one, though... grin

I will definitely be carrying mine on hunts next year, pending on how it ends up shooting.

8.5 or even 9 all up wouldn't bother me for the heavier rifle. The McMillan (Sako) Hunter would be a nice stock for that rig.

The light rifle would be a MR contour in an Edge....or maybe Faux Ti....somebody told me they didn't suck.

I'll have to go the heavier route first since I just bought the barrel. I'd be waiting a few months on the lighter barrel anyway.

I really like the looks of the Sako Hunter, that'd be a great rig if you weren't going to do a bunch of steep hiking.

I like the faux-T.I. idea myself, too. I'm very interested to see what mine will weigh.


I hope you're stocked up on 105s!

I have a few (500ish) and will pick up more. LGS has a few boxes left. The 105's and TSX/TTSX's will probably be the only thing that goes down the tube.

I have plenty of RL17...for now. With the way things look now, I'm glad to have what I've got! I'm saving all my H4350 for when the 260 gets back.

My tax return is going to be spent %100 on gunpowder... If I can get a good stock of 7828 and RL-17 I'll be good! I'm putting some major blind faith in '17, but what the heck... if it doesn't work I'll trade it or somethin'.

What are you doing with the .260?

Eddie F has it. He's giving it a coating/bedding job. I had a Douglas screwed on last spring and it shoots great. Decided it needed a little bling. Ordered a Ruger MKII Hunter (McWoody) and coating all the metal in graphite black.

It's my Faux Old School rifle! It should be coming back very SOON...

Sweet! The Faux Wood and Blued rigs are awesome... the best way to use a wood stock is to make it a Mickey

Maybe someday I'll pour out the pennies to get sweet coating jobs, but my clown-school Krylon jobs will have to do for now... grin

I plumbed a 243AI last night. 7,75T sendero contour interrupted fluted Brux on a trued up 700 in a HS. I started trying to get a few out of the way so I can work on my own crap. Waiting on my buddy who owns the gun to drop off a bolt stop return spring, and a wyatts mag box follower and spring. Then it is off to birdsong for some Black T.



3 more to go than I am gonna do myself another 243AI

Freaking sweet, Eddy!

Need an apprentice?

I sure do need an apprentice Tanner, the two I have now suck

Member here Itchy2 let me use some of his Acraglas stash, and I set out to bedding the barreled action last night...

Popped her out this morning, threw a Leupy in the saddles, and torqued everything up! I'm liking it a ton!

7.4lbs as pictured.





105 A-Maxes kiss at 2.818", so inside the box, but just barely. A Wyatt's might be in order someday...

She's beautiful.


Travis

Holy Crap Tanner- I sure hope you dress yourself better than you dress your sticks. It almost like a holstein heifer that was raised near a nuclear plant.

Kinda grows on ya after awhile

i think were sporting the same leupy. is that a FX3 with a M1?

It's like a Holstein Heifer with huge t!ts and pajamas on.

The goal was to appeal to the wood and blued Mauser type fans.

That's actually a 3-9x40 Vari X-IIc.

Mcmillan will paint a stock and install a recoil pad. Hint.

LOL- I can see that

My bad on the scope- i guess my retinas were burned a little from looking at that ah ,beautiful handle.

In a weird kinda way i am digging it now. I think it would be pretty cool to ride up with that strapped to the side of my ponies this fall. could just about see the look on my buddies face when i pull that out of the scabbard.

GFY.

Hint.

I COULD send it to some pro stock painting eggspurt with an oven and cool schit like that.... but that's not fun at all.

And they can't paint 'em up like Popsicles like I can.

Great advice.

Won't lose THAT [bleep] behind a log.

You're gonna love it......

Are you queers still gawking over that frilly little 6mm? [bleep] I was in downtown Toronto this morning and I'm pretty sure I seen that thing in the window of Abercrombie and Finches Sporting goods section.....

I suppose the question would be, Why the [bleep] were you in Abercrombie and Fitch?

You just fired off your gay flare.


Travis

Correction:

He IS lovin' it!


Travis

The Pajama Rocket shot under an inch with 2 different charges of '17 and 105s today, off a 2200 and laying in the back of my truck.

I think it'll work.

Stretch those legs.

Bring it to the IB.

And GFY.


Travis

I found some RARE artifacts today (IMR 4350 and F215 Match Primers) so I might have to try those out, too.

But it looks like '17 is the king schit, for other guys.

Is it allowed at the IB? It's kind of ugly, if you didn't notice...

Not interested what you do in you pajamas in the back of your truck.

Sorry how the flower gun turned out.

Should've been a .270

Tanner,

Did you chrony that load? Just curious what charge you were running? Gonna load some RL17 tomorrow and shoot Sunday in my AI.

Is that the same tube? Did you get the throat lengthened?

BW,

It's the same barrel, but it head spaces differently on my action.

We must be talking about two different rifles. The one I saw is beautiful.


Travis

Thanks buddy. Your support means the world.

I saw it too...I think its fabulous...

Right on. Post more results when you get 'em.

You all need to get a room...

I'll paint yours if you'd like Marty. Yours can be fabulous too.

How's it doing with the 105 now, Tanner?

Haha! Sweet pic!

Only ran a few loads yesterday. I won't get to shoot it again for a while...

Thinking with moly I can likely bump the '17 charge to 45.5gr. I'm interested to see if I can run Fed 215 Match in this cart and see good results.

I still have some red paint left.



Thanks though.


And GFY...

That rifle is gorgeous. I love what you've done with the thing.

Not quite the Pajama Rocket though...

I love how open you, Ingwe, and Trav are with us. I expected nothing less from fellers from Colo, and Tucky.

You go girls!!!

How's your 243 AI coming along, Archiballsack?

Marty--
I don't think I'll let you -- or Tanner -- paint any of my stocks. You guys lack the "bling" factor I'm looking to achieve...

Its giving me huuuge balls trying to headspace it with this new Remington Floating action....



I should have just bought a [bleep] T3...

Sweet. 700 takeoff tube?

And Atlas BM? Jordan is going to buy me one of those. He's a great guy.

Get some [bleep] turrets, you peasant.

Jordan already told me he was getting me one. So you'll have to wait. He cant just go buyin' schit for yankees before he takes care of his distant Ontarian son.

BDL SS Take offs in .243 and 7 Sham-Wow sitting at the ready, and an Atlas waiting to rock. Gotta order some more, those DBMs are nice for the hundred and a half you shell out.

COuld have had a donor action by now, but stupidly I went and looked at a GM 3/4 ton and got wood from it, so signed the papers for it. Now I'm getting raped by all the "oh just one more fee before you're done"'s. Its really [bleep] up my gun money....

Sounds like schitty priorities buddy.

I really do gotta' get me one of those fancy DBMs. Factory metal sucks.

I cant figure out why you havent yet! We've all only been hinting it to you for 4 [bleep] months...


Kids....

Looks nice! I'd go with a little more tube weight for balance with the DBM.

I've been pondering the same thing. Which is why I keep throwing the idea of the SAUM takeoff in there, as its a Mag contour.

I'll eventually screw them both together and find out for certain. But as Tanner mentioned earlier, my priorities are [bleep]

By the time you take out the material from the stock to inlet the Atlas, you're very close to factory BDL weight. The alum. Atlas doesn't weigh much...

Tanner and Arch,

You're both deluded crack whores.

Get your crap together. You each owe me a box of 162's.

Tanner I like the paint so much I will send you a new grind to fit pad if you will flush that green flip flop.Your execution was great until the lime green atrocity.
I wonder if we can get on of the pad companies to make some blue pads to match folks tape wraps.

......which I have.

I've seen your bling too. The rainbow isn't on my agenda!

Awh c'mon Eddy! That's cold! grin...

I'll probably hack the green pad off and grind the stock down a bit so my sister and girlfriend can use it, too. It's got a 14" LOP currently, and that ain't going to work.

Meaner

Sako Hunter?

You'll need to pick up the pink paint at your local KY hardware store... Heard they have flower stencils too! grin

Yessir.

Good one! I guess I set myself up for that one..

Boxers latest 6-284 has given me serious wood. I may steal the build.

#3 Brux wit a modest shank / Sako Hunter / Atlas DBM...but I would go 243 Ai like Tan Man.

Mooner, if I was going to be able to run something at 2.9ish", I'd probably go 6-284 myself. There's a 243 AI inside every 6-284, but not vice versa... grin

If Archie would just buy himself a nice #3 Douglas or something to balance that Sako Hunter, I'd already have a stiffy over it, too.

Laffin'.

The whole point to this sako hunter was to be a rez build. Its got a 50$ barrel. I can't go putting a douglas, brux, kreiger etc on this thing...then it wouldn't be a budget build anymore

Hey, got bored with the Banana'tana so I ripped its flesh off. Say hello to the Catertanny....reminds me of gramps old D4



Wage' and Jordan....GFYs.

Pretty well how this ones going only with an Obama/welfare barrel, and no 1300$ MK4 on top

It will be THE ultimate road hunting gun. I will patent it and sell it to Cummins 1 ton owners out West and in Northern Ontario by the thousands.

Very true, but the magazine weight (especially the Atlas type 2 10 rounders), as well as the Sako Hunter having much of it's weight aft will push the balance point back. The 6x42 and Talleys will help some.

I say try to find a SAUM/WSM action, and throw the 7mm SAUM barrel on there.

Working up loads in a vanilla 243 with '17 and the 80 grain TTSX. Not much of a long range load, but I'll conjure up something with the 105 A-Max as far as that goes. Going to have this rifle punched AI eventually, just need to figure out when.

No pressure signs whatsoever. Safely worked up to 46 grains of '17 thus far, might see how far I can push it for the sake of curiosity. Hunted with this rifle shooting 45 grains of '17, which pushed the 80 grain bullet around 3350 fps. I can vouch that the deer did not appreciate this load in the least. Accuracy was there, too. Shot two groups at 100 yards in haste after getting it on paper before the season. First was off a pretty unsteady rest and was 5/8" center to center. Second group was a CH larger than 1/4". I highly doubt that I'll be able to replicate the 1/4" group, but I'm not going to complain.

That's scooting! My hunting load with the 80TTSX is 44.5grs of RL17. I get 3350ish from a 24" barrel.

I tried a few at 45 and 45.5, but the accuracy node for me was at 44.5.

We'll see how things pan out in the accuracy department, I'm hoping it works out.

If not, I've got no qualms gunning my 45 grain load at critters.

I've got a couple 80s on the way.... I'll moly them and I'm guessing I can probably run the charge up to 47-48gr in my gun...

Where are you guys seating the 80s? Big jump?

Seeing kind of a classic "2 in, 1 out" set of groups, but this charge looks pretty decent.

45gr '17
105 A-Max (moly'd)
2.810" COAL
W/W Hull
CCI-200

I never had any luck with them close. I run them .050 to .100 off, depending on the rifle.

Just checked my rifle, looks like my loads have about a 0.010" jump to the lands.

Have you ran this load over a chronograph yet? Just curious as to the velocity.

I haven't... Need to pick a chrony up.

Guessing is probably an exercise in futility, but 3150 would be my closest estimate... seems like moly really keeps the pressure down.

Here's what Quickload shows. I just got the program last week, so if there's anything I messed up on, please let me know. Wasn't sure on your barrel length, so I inputed a nice average of 23 inches.

Cartridge : .243 Win.
Bullet : .243, 80, Barnes 'TTSX' BT 24338
Useable Case Capaci: 49.229 grain H2O = 3.196 cm�
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.710 inch = 68.83 mm
Barrel Length : 23.0 inch = 584.2 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-17

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 76 36.00 2705 1300 30994 9447 94.1 1.367
-18.0 78 36.90 2771 1364 33060 9717 95.3 1.333
-16.0 79 37.80 2836 1429 35271 9969 96.3 1.299
-14.0 81 38.70 2902 1496 37634 10202 97.3 1.266
-12.0 83 39.60 2968 1564 40161 10415 98.1 1.234
-10.0 85 40.50 3033 1634 42866 10606 98.8 1.203
-08.0 87 41.40 3097 1704 45762 10774 99.3 1.169
-06.0 89 42.30 3161 1775 48865 10917 99.7 1.135
-04.0 91 43.20 3225 1847 52193 11035 99.9 1.102 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 93 44.10 3287 1919 55761 11126 100.0 1.070 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 95 45.00 3349 1992 59592 11201 100.0 1.039 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 96 45.90 3410 2065 63711 11273 100.0 1.009 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 98 46.80 3470 2139 68139 11341 100.0 0.980 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 100 47.70 3529 2213 72909 11406 100.0 0.953 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 102 48.60 3588 2287 78032 11468 100.0 0.926 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 104 49.50 3647 2362 83510 11526 100.0 0.900 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

FWIW -- Barnes lists 45.5 of RL17 as their max with the 80gr TTSX.

I dunno' if anybody else thinks this way, but it's tough for me to relate Barnes bullets with others when working up a load... meaning that sometimes I'll take a look in a manual, locate a given weight bullet, and use their data for another bullet (given that work up is involved)... but with TSX and TTSX, the charges just don't seem to line up, and sometimes it takes a bunch more or a bunch less powder to get where you want to be (maybe the shanks, or small bearing surfaces?)

Could just be very amateur handloading, as well... grin

One trend I've noticed with Barnes bullets -- they liked to be pushed. I've yet to find an accuracy node with any cartridge that wasn't near max using the TSX/TTSX.

Yeah, I'd say from the looks of it he's more than into the world of pressure. But, as one of my best friends likes to say don't let anything but fear and a bit of common sense guide you...

The Alliant site calls for 44/17 with an 80 @ 3362 fps. To date I've not found a load yet that wasn't pretty much top of the tier that was listed for them and I had no personal interest in going any further.

But, Powder River let er buck...


Dober

I've noticed similar results. For me they've shot ok with medium loads, and great when pushed to max pressure/velocity, in several rifles.

Agreed. 3500 with 80s would be pushin' it hard!

It's easy enough to just run a couple of AICS 5-round mags, which don't weigh near as much. I only use 10-rounders when shooting from prone or off bags.

Is it possible to remove the reinforement plate on the 5 rounders and get to 2.95" OAL or so? AFAIK, the type 2 10 round mags are the only mags designed for the longer OAL? Pardon my ignorance, I have a 223 AI with AI mags, but haven't really been around the .473 bf mags.

Yessir, it is possible.

Nice! Thanks. The longer OAL would be about the only reason I would personally run AICS mags on a sporter weight hunting rifle. The 5 rounders are much more appealing for such an application. It would be really nice if they made a flush fitting 3 round mag.

Yeah, that and the reliable feeding compared to the factory BDL problems that sometimes pop up. Your numbers are pretty much bang on. With the plate removed, the max OAL in my AICS mags is 2.990-2.995", depending on which mag you measure. Knock off 0.020" for reliable feeding, and you end up with a max usable OAL of around 2.970".

Thanks Jordan. The feeding issue is why I went with the AICS mags on my heavy 223 AI. Those centerfeed mags feed 75 Amaxs smooth as can be.

So lets say I just bought a new Stiller Predator action and 6mm Brux blank. Which bottom metal (or none -- ADL) should I be looking at? I'm not opposed to use something that affords longer OAL. I can have the chamber throated to my liking, but I don't want to rob case space either.

After the first barrel is burnt, I may want to jump to 260 or 7-08. Kinda looking post 243AI too. You never know....but now is the time to consider options.

Oh man... custom actions and everything. In case you didn't notice... this thread is for beater rifles, not nice ones

What's the length on those Predator boxes? 2.85"ish? I'll be the dissenter and say that I really like ADL setups (105 at 2.8" puts the base of the bullet in a pretty nice spot), but in all fairness, I have never run a really nice DBM like the one Jordan is using.

I bought a 700 ADL that was going to be the project. Then I stumbled across the predator. The action doesn't come with a box, just the cut out. They do offer options, but I don't know if I want to use theirs.

I like the ADL set up too. That's why I'm asking. I've never used a nice DBM either and wonder if something could make it more better!

I'm with ya Tanner, I'm all about ADLs (BDLs don't bother me too badly) for a hunting gun. DBMs freak me out a little, I really would hate to try to chamber a round on a hunt and find my magazine missing. Those babies aren't cheap, either.

Side note: We had a guy lose his factory 700 DBM magazine on a hunt. He didn't have a spare. Had to backtrack and fortunately found it at the last glassing spot. Dumb.

My old .280 had the factory DBM and it always kinda' freaked me out. I considered glassing it in, but it never really gave me real trouble. Much happier running a blind-mag 7RM now, however.

I know it's been discussed ad nauseum, but what is everybody's final verdict on a Wyatt's box in a SA 700 BDL setup?

I'm digging the one I've got in an ADL.

If money and availability were no concern, then I'd be tempted to try out the APA bottom metal. A lot of guys really like the design of that unit, and it will take AICS or AW mags.

If you're running the 105AM, then an OAL of about 2.820" puts the base of the bullet's bearing surface right at the base of the .243AI's case neck, so a mag box that measures 2.840" would be plenty.

Without having the 140gr Berger VLD or Hybrid in my hands, it looks like, based on calculations, an OAL of 2.977" would put the base of the bearing surface of the 140 VLD at the base of the neck on the .260 Rem. That means that if you're using AICS mags, you'll want to remove the reinforcing plate in order to get enough space for that 2.977" OAL. You'd have to throat accordingly, of course.

ADL isn't a bad way to roll for a hunting rifle, but it's nice to have the M5-style BM and AICS mags for a rifle that is used for both hunting and a lot of steel/paper.

Tanner-can't recall for sure what it was but it seems to me that SU35 had some issues with the Wyatts on a short action.

Dober

Took a little tweaking of the magazine spring, but once I got that done, my Stiller/Wyatt combo feeds as well as any factory 700 I have ever had. Edited to add that, IIRC, the internal length is 2.995", pretty nice with VLDs...

John

80 TTSX and 105 A-Maxes shoot to the same POI... I'm lovin' it.



First load of 95 Bergers went into about .6", too...

Looks like its going good! I bet that 80gr TTSX is 3500fps. That dog will hunt...

I have no idea of tellin' how fast the 80's are going. I'm really anxious to run it over a chrony.

Looks like from my 500 yard drops, the 105s are going right at 3150.

My old 3-9 is kind of lacking, optically. Might need to upgrade that.

I get 3350ish from 44.5grs of '17 in a standard 243 (24"). I bet you're pushing better than 3500...

Tanner, I'm running the same load as your Berger VLD load. Shoots pretty good in mine. The 80 gr ttsx are going to get worked up when the weather gets nicer.

You've found nirvana, my friend. Can't say I'm surprised.

I'm doing 3485fps with IMR4350, so 3500+ should be very do-able with R17.

Jordan, how much IMR 4350?

Lots.







48gr, if you must know.

Phew! I better start stuffin' more '17 in my cases...

Yep. I bet you can go some higher. You need to pick up a chronograph!

I really do. Better sell something and get one...

Sell your .243 AI

Figured that load was very likely near maximum in that rifle, and it appears that it is from your QuickLoad data. I should probably go ahead and get a copy of that. Going to load up some more TTSX's with 45 grains of '17 and reevaluate everything. Once we get warmer weather, I will be sure to ascertain as to whether or not this load is safe in higher ambient temps.

As someone mentioned, Barnes lists a maximum in their book as 45.5 grains and that is the data that I used to work up to that load. The QuickLoad data with 45.0 gr RL-17 is spot on with my empirical results.

prairie goat - FWIW, my rifle has a 24" barrel and the COAL was 2.755", would be curious to see if that changes the QL data by much or at all.

thanks, dick. now i have to build one too. lol

Scorpion,

I'll shoot ya a PM with the info when I get on my computer with Quickload.

Got my wheels turning too. Seems my 700 adl 243 in the safe would be an ideal candidate. After reading this thread, keepin it a 243 vanilla wouldn't be near as much fun as converting to the A.I. version...

Leave it a 243. BTDT on the factory barrels set back and made AI. Not worth the cost and time for 100 fps. Won't see any difference in the field. Trimming is about eliminated. Big whoop.

If you are rebarreling, go for it.

I'm in support of this as well. If this barrel hadn't ALREADY been punched AI, I wouldn't have gone that route. But, it was so that was just an added bonus.

As far as I'm concerned, a vanilla 243 will drive the 80s to 3350(ish), and the 105s a bit under 3100. That's a lot of smack from 45-49gr of powder.

Yeah, it's one of those deals that seemed like a good idea at the time, and later I kinda scratched my head and asked myself "why did I do this"?

It was about this time of year, 11 years past that I sent in a Sendero 25-06 and a KS mountain rifle 280 and had them punched AI. Had some fun with them, but I didn't gain anything - and spent at least 400 bucks getting them both set up as Ackleys by the time the gunsmith was payed, rifles shipped, and new dies were bought.

Like I said, worth doing if you need a new barrel anyway, and if you're not set up to load for the rifle in the first place.

For that much coin, I'da just had a new tube screwed on one of them!

I will say that if you've got a gunsmith buddy that'll punch it out for a 6 pack or whatever, then it'd be a good idea. But, there are a few benefits to doing it besides the new chamber... Jordan had his throated in accordance with his 105s when his was punched out (I believe?), and that's a huge part of this 243 AI and 700 action equation...

I think it's almost time for me to order up a Douglas for this rig

i am planning on doing this with a long action. think it will feed ok?

Not sure about the feeding, but I know that a 243 A.I. is at the bottom of the list of 6mm's I'd stick in a long action.

I'd be thinking more like:

6/06
6-284
6 Rem AI

In that order.

well i have a nice .270 for a donor and a ton of .243 brass

A 243 AI in a 3.6" box would make my heart hurt thinking about all the gas left on the table...

I'm bettin' you could sell that 243 brass and buy an equal amount of 25/06 brass and make yourself a dandy 6/06.

is the 6/06 more of a barrel eater than the .243 or 25/06?

Thanks for the input guys. I've shot some 105 amax test loads out of it a while back. I'll have to go dig through my pile of targets and play with it some more. If I remember right, it will only take a little playing with to make her sing. Rat-holing some money away for a new stock and scope.

Is this project for sale yet

Not yet... It might be when I need to make a tuition payment next year though!

Don't worry about tuition payments! Just be an idiot like me and let the gov't pay it for you! That way you don't have to worry now and can kick yourself in the ass 5 years from now when they start sending you bills in the mail!

But really, pay every single cent you can afford to now. I wish I would have done it. Same with my wife. I'm going to croak when we start getting her loan bills in the mail too.

Dangit yall got me cranking fast twist 243AIs out like wild. Just did another today. Yall need to keep it under wraps that 243s will kill stuff or I am never gonna get any time to build myself another.

Nice work Eddy! That thing should be a shoota'!

Who's barrel? Throating?

Little hike today...

Can't wait to start shooting mine after we get a little nicer weather and I don't have as much work.
Just got the scope back from leupold last week after they installed the M1 turret and a couple of weeks ago had Karl flute and put a new shifter handle on my bolt.
Boy this thing feels nice.

Rock barrel. My reamer will feed jammed 115s so long as a wyatts extended box is used. I think it would be pretty dang close to jamming, feeding 105s with the factory box.

I have quietly browsed the building and chatter of this whole sporter with the lime pad, btw looks better chopped down now, and had to put on hold a 257 roy project for something similar. My long actions are not seeing light as the newly purchased 700 plain vanilla 243 gets looked at quiet often. You are a bad influence! Now if I could find brass and powder somewhere local...

Sweet. I might have to send you this action sometime with a Wyatt's box.... I'd like to shoot 115s with the next tube.

For some strange reason 243AIs float my boat, but so does the straight 243. I sure dig building them sporter weight then hammering stuff a ways out there. My nephews little gun has been getting out there a good bit lately. I have been teaching him to crank on them scope knobs for a few years now. He just got himself a smart phone and has been going to town with "Shooter" It won't be long before he is ready to go solo on a long range animal. I am thinking maybe a 600 yard antelope would be a good warm up for him. If I find some tags I am gonna try and make it happen.

Yep 243ai are very fun and smack animals!

243ai/95grVLD

Nice buck Andy! You can bet I'll be toting my 243 after deer this year...

Eddy, I love that rifle your nephew built! He did a great job....grin

What are the specs on your nephew's rifle?

Trued 700 10 t Schillen dupe of rem mr. Pillar bedded in a McM. Put a of green luepy with a cds. He has been putting it to good use.

I could see myself with a twin of that one.

I could send that one to ya. He is going to build himself a 6.5x284 in the off season

I wish I had the extra play money but the tax man has bit me this year.

This little popsicle got a new scope... I like it thus far. Excited to see how I like the mil/mil turrets/reticle system.

Talley mediums?

Yep. In hindsight, I should've gone Talley Low 30mms, but it's not too big of a deal..... My eye still lines up very well.

Always go low with Talleys, unless you can go extra low.

When are you sending it out schit-rocker?

Took the twins out for an impromptu workout today. 165 VLDs were working well shooting around 1" with 57 grns of RE22. Gotta chrony them as it feels like its running on the anemic side. May have to pick up 7828 and try it.

Green grass...I wish. My balls were soaked today after my shoot, and it wasnt from youre mommas mouth

What are you shooting 165 VLD's in?

Get yourself a shooting Mat and you'll be in hog-heaven.

Two Sebenty short and fat 'Tana.

let a fellow canuck translate...I'll try anyway..

270 WSM in a Kimber Montana..

How'd I do?

???? I said .260 Rem Model 7...

You're gettin slow old timer

Liking the 3-9x42 SWFA thus far. This mil/mil thing will take some getting used to, but the glass seems pretty darn good to my eyes (whatever that's worth) and I like the reticle quite a bit.

Does it always try to point towards Pearl Harbour, no matter how far you spin the turrets?

Did you compare it the Leupold 3x9 AR Mod 1?

Mil/Mil does take some getting used to if you learned MOA/MOA, but it is great once you get used to it.

I checked out one of the AR Mod 1's at a Sportsmans. Definitely a nice little option for a lightweight rig, but I wasn't too fond of the BDC numerals with the Mil designations written really small below. And it doesn't have hash marks to designate which turn you're on, so those kind of blew it for me.

If a 10T would do what you need I could get you running fast and cheap with a SS rock.

I appreciate the offer Eddy, but I don't know if a 10T will spin the 105 A-Maxes like I want it too, and that's really my main bullet of choice in this rig. I've heard of some doing it, but I'd rather just do it right the first time.

I think I'm going to order the #3 Shilen and fling a package your way. Trying to see if Kenny can give me an idea how long the throat is on the one you built him.

At your altitude I think the 10T would do the job, but here at sea level they are iffy. I kinda like to be better safe than sorry myself, so your probably doing the right thing. I can tell you that 105 scenars will jamm and feed with my reamer.

The 105 Scenars will jam and feed from a 2.8" box?

MOA/MOA and mil/mil are the same thing, they're just different incremental angular measurements. You already know that.

Simply put, 0.5 mil is about 1.75MOA, 1 mil is about 3.5MOA, 0.1 mil is about 0.3MOA, etc. The only time you will likely even have to think about that is when holding off for wind or elevation. If you're dialing it in, just tell your ballistic app to spit out the corrections in mil's, and twist the knob to the requisite marking

FFP does take a little getting used to, but I have a feeling you're going to love it once you get your head wrapped around it.

I'm getting the mil/MOA conversion down pretty quickly, but it's still just a little odd seeing .10th mil clicks vs. 1/4 MOA. I AM loving being able to see misses on the mil reticle and not have to convert it back to MOA to make an adjustment on the turrets. Shooter's already been converted to MILs for this rifle.....

Yep

I would tell you how a 105 A-max would seat but apparently I sold them and cannot remember doing it.

They're only .013" longer than the 105 A-Max, can't imagine that the ogives are much more than a blonde CH different?

If you have a bullet comparator, have Eddy give you the base to ogive measurement for the scenar and you should be able to load an Amax to the same OAL and make the comparison. That should tell you if it will work or not.

How does the 3-9 SS do at longer distances without parallax adjustment? Non-issue?

John

Wish I had a comparator around, that'd make things easy. I do believe Scenars have a longer ogive than the A-Max, so the 105 should work from the box pretty handily. Maybe Eddy will find an A-Max or two and give me an idea.

I shot the SS 3-9 at 900 today, and I will say that the reticle was a bit hard to use with the way the sun was shining. Very clear and bright though.... might have to mess with the focus a bit and see what happens. The no parallax adjustment doesn't bother me at all.

Do you have a way to measure base to ogive on a round loaded to the dimension you want? You need to get one of those sinclair nuts for measuring if you do not have one.

Take a steel caliper and set it at bullet diameter. Score the bullet at the ogive and then measure the distance to the score mark. Can't take credit for the idea. Mule Deer's, IIRC.

John

Got a few measurements, but I don't know how good they are...

I ran out in my shop (Well limped my crippled up arse out there) because somewhere in the back of my mind I remembered I had another 243AI out there. I checked the twist but it was a 10T as well

While out there I took some pics of that 243AI and of the bullet along with some measurements that could help you out. The little piece of barrel stub on the bullet is one of the greatest reloading tools ever. I have started making one for all the guns I build.

Here is that 243AI cute little thing but it needs a shortened action screw. It has a pillar in there that has a bolt holding the gun together, the screw hanging out is just hand tightened into the screw that is halding the gun together.



Here is the dummy round inserted in the doo dad after I spun it to make some marks on the bullet.



Here is a pic of the dummy sitting in a SA mag box I keep around for size checking.



Here is the bullet being measured with one of those sinclair nuts on it. Subtract one inch to know base to throat measurement.



Here is the COAL of the dummy round with the 105 scenar.

My 105s are at 2.18 when seated to 2.805" COAL. Does that make any sense at all?

Yep. If it will feed at 2.805 you should be good to go.

Did some calculating and it looks like that reamer will jam A-Maxes at 2.815".

Looks like with 105Amax"s to the lands is 2.768"

Damnit I've wanted a 22-250 for a while but all this 243 ai talk has got me wanting one, good new is the donor is staring at me, leaned on the wall right now. Is It bad to want one with a #3 in an Alaskan at 23 inches

Sounds about perfect to me.....

Kenny, any idea how close 2.768" puts the ogive to the case mouth?

Sorry,I don't have any way to get an exact measurement.
But,with my brass and 105Amax looks to be .100"

Here's 1000 words for you, Tuner...

Thanks man, I was actually going to PM you to see if you could hook a brotha' up with a picture. Looks like I'll be just fine.

Up to refresh a classic thread that has lots of EddyBo in it.

Great read, thanks for bringing it back