I am going to build a rifle in the next few months and have narrowed it to the three choices above.
I already have 2 7mm-08s for 90 % of my shooting and 2 300wms, for heavy hitting
I want a rifle to reach out with more power from 300-500 yards without the recoil of the 300wm.
I plan on using heavier 7mm bullets and seating them way out to maximize powder capabilities in the 2 shorter cases, hence the long action
I have a savage long action that I am using for the build that already has a magnum bolt face that is not really a problem to change to a smaller bolt face.
is there any real advantage in performance between these three out to 500 yards? I will not be shooting past that, and in reality will not be hunting past 400 yards unless the setup is perfect.
I plan on a lighter weight 24 inch barrel, the 280ai could be hampered by mag length were as the shorter rounds would not.
I reload all my centerfire so no problem and although I know brass can be hard to find for a couple of these once I find a couple hundred quality pieces I will be set for some time.
Good question,, I think that the wsm line is a little more powder than I want to run, also I'm not real sure about building a wsm with a small shank action,,, all the savage wsm's I've seen have been on the larger shank action
I just built a 280AI, really the goldilocks of the bunch. The 7saum and 280AI are basically ballistic twins; but you can find 280 brass anywhere to fireform or just buy nosler 280AI brass up-front.
7saum brass is unicorn status right now
I would start by looking at what bullets you want to use, then go to what velocity you want to push em' at. Combine that with the practicalities of each cartridge and the answer will be clear to you.
I went 280AI. Magnum performance, more or less, without the hassle, noise, recoil, extra powder, and I can easily full length resize. Plus an extra one in the belly, so I can shoot one more critter Also it is one level deeper on the tinkering stage to keep me occupied. FWIW
All good choices but if going on a long action, I would go 280 ai. The 284, you will gain some but still have more action then you can use. The saum or wsm would also be contenders but would keep action length where they belong.
is there any real advantage in performance between these three out to 500 yards? I will not be shooting past that, and in reality will not be hunting past 400 yards unless the setup is perfect.
At 500 yards, no REAL advantage between any of the three and your 7mm-08's.
I think highly of the 7mm-08 and feel like the others if I was going to get another 7 it'd be a 280AI. I do think the 7saum is one of the best "bigger" 7s because of how efficient it is. You may have already read it, but I think this is an interesting read by guys who run a lot of bullets: http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/7mm/
Really isn't much of a choice... The Ackley wins hands down. Not mag recoil. Very good brass you can buy tomorrow. No micky mouse mag fiddling to feed. Good way past 500. Honestly any 270 shooting heavies would fly north for you very well...
Really isn't much of a choice... The Ackley wins hands down. Not mag recoil. Very good brass you can buy tomorrow. No micky mouse mag fiddling to feed. Good way past 500. Honestly any 270 shooting heavies would fly north for you very well...
Your really splitting hairs with what you already own.
Randy
Due to a messed up shoulder, "As good as it's going to get" I hardly ever shoot the 300wms these days and may in fact convert one of them to whatever round I choose, I want a flatter trajectory with more distance than the 7mm-08 can give me with heavier bullets and without the magnum recoil so I will be able to shoot from field positions. I can shoot the 300wms all day from the leadsled but that's not alot of fun. I do want to keep the gun fairly light though as it will be a hunting gun involving lotsa walking,,,, thinking elk, mule deer, possible caribou/moose. 24 inch sporter barrel,
Would the 280ai be hindered by shooting longer bullets IE loosing powder capacity compared to a shorter round in a long action with the bullet set out to not hinder powder capacity.?
I think highly of the 7mm-08 and feel like the others if I was going to get another 7 it'd be a 280AI. I do think the 7saum is one of the best "bigger" 7s because of how efficient it is. You may have already read it, but I think this is an interesting read by guys who run a lot of bullets: http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/7mm/
gotta admit that is one of the sources of info that has me so interested in the .284win and 7mm saum
Would the 280ai be hindered by shooting longer bullets IE loosing powder capacity compared to a shorter round in a long action with the bullet set out to not hinder powder capacity.?
Thanks for all the input so far,,,
The .280AI will pretty easily turn up 2900+ fps with a 162 AMAX while using roughly 60 grains of powder.
I have a 284 Win in a ULA Model 20. 55 grains of IMR 4350 and a 140 grain Nosler Partition (I get 3000 fps) has killed many sheep, elk, caribou, and mountain goats out to 500 yards. I got a Kimber Mountain Ascent in 280 Ackley about a year or so ago. After playing around with loads I use 62 grains of H4831 SC and a 140 grain Barnes Triple Shock (I get about 3150 fps). I have used this bullet in many other rifles with good success, only shot an animalope with it this year. The 280 AI is 7 Mag performance for sure hotter than the 284 but in reality the 284 will probably due whatever the 280 Ackley will do in a hunting situation. The 284 Win loaded like I load mine will give you 280 Remington performance. Both fun cartridges. Anyways they are both pretty damn good.
So many of these "which chambering should I choose" questions really are just a reason to knock around thoughts and converse.
The more you really look at it objectively, there's not too much difference between them unless you go to comparing chamberings like 7 RUM, .284win, 7mm-08 where there is a huge difference in case capacity, velocity, recoil etc...
There's a guy who posts here who's signature line says something like "most cartridges are far more alike than different".
Just choose one that you like. If you had all of them at once, you probably wouldn't tell the difference while shooting them in the field.
Lets not forget the OP's range is 300-500 yards. More powder shines at more distance.
Yes I will not be shooting past 500 and on game will get as close as possible so that number will probably never be reached there, just want more umph than a 7mm-08 has at that range with heavy 7mm bullets.
Yes I know there isn't alot of difference in practical applications for the ones I listed but when it comes to these three chamberings I only know what I have read and you guys know the real info from shooting them
Can't comment on the heavier bullets, never shot em in these two. I know the 160 grain type bullets have better ballistic coefficients that the 140s I shoot in a 7 mm caliber. With the bullets we have today I like speed for killin stuff.
The 175 grain accubond really gets my interest,,,,,, 165 grain and up is what I'm thinking,,, what spin 7mm barrel would be recommended for such,, I'll be having the barrel made so I can be picky.
I've seen bull elk killed with 175s in a 7 Mag, 160s in a 280 Rem, and 140s in a 284. I'm sure those 175 Accubonds would work just fine. Or any of the bullets George just listed.
I know it's not on the list and I'm certainly biased, but if you want to run a 175 the Mashburn should be mentioned. You should be able to run it at 3k easy (165s will go 3,200).
From your list my favorite is the 280AI. But I would also consider the .257 Wby, 6.5/284, 6.5-06AI and the .264 Win. all lighter recoil and worthy to well past what your considering. The downside is barrel life with the 6.5-06AI maybe doing better in that department than the others. The 280 AI covers these others with 120s @ 3,300 & 160s @ 2950 fps, not as flat shooting but good to 300 with no holdover.
Not sure about barrel life on the .280 AI but should be as good or better than the 7RM maybe significantly better. I'll know in a couple 1,000 more rounds.
If you can't get it done out to 500 yds with a 708 something is very seriously wrong.
Well your no fun
I just want some more umphhhhh past 300yards, flatter shooting past 300 would be nice as well, I'm not a turret dialing pro like most you you long range guys
If you can't get it done out to 500 yds with a 708 something is very seriously wrong.
Well your no fun
I just want some more umphhhhh past 300yards, flatter shooting past 300 would be nice as well, I'm not a turret dialing pro like most you you long range guys
Yeah,
I was afraid he was going to use that nasty, four letter word, NEED, a Loony's worse nightmare...
I have a 7saum last 2 years, have had a few other 7mag ,280ai ect,
next to my 300stw shooting 200gr acubond about 3100 fps this 7 saum is by far the easiest one shot killing rifle I have shot, been shooting it 3 years ,a bunch of big game and almost 100 coyotes,, until last month been shooting the 168 berger hybrid at about 2900, now shooting the 168 longrange accubond at 2950, coyote kills out to 916 yards big game taken out to 765 , one shot cold bore kills, maybe the rifle maybe the cartridge,
I am going to give it to my 12 yr old kid and build a new lighter weight 6.5 saum,,
I love my 280AI but I picked up a 7 SAUM so i could make a 6.5 SAUM. Problem is I shot it and it is a fantastically accurate rifle and now I feel the need to shoot it until the barrel is toast and then downsize it .5mm.
What you are hearing is true, those two rounds are interchangeable for speed, just different action sizes. The once thing about the 280 is you can use standard 280 rem brass and just shoot it and they fire form, SAUM brass is pretty rare right now, and the prices it is demanding is ridiculous, just look at gun broker and other places. The nosler stuff, when you can find it, is $50.00+ for 25 pieces.
You bet. The 7RM is drama free to ill effect on critters. None of them ever felt very chipper after the bang switch was hit, so I guess you're right...
On a long action I would go .280AI. You are safely nipping on the heels of a 7RM with less powder, less recoil, brass abounds and you get an extra round in the magazine. Win/win in my book and I have the 7RM. Next will be the WSM but in a short action
I am a big 7mm fan currently with 2 7.-08's a 284 and 280, yes alot of overlap. To the op, if you are looking for more speed with heavier bullets and no recoil, I would look at a straight up 280, 160's should do 2800+ and kill as far as you can shoot. I do like the sham wow for efficiency but just have not owned one, I would also agree if going for the heavies, 1:9 would do you good.
George, the 280ai is a tremendous round but no matter what you do, it is not a 7 RM, and no, I am not a fan of the RM but facts are facts, also check the recoil calculators as everyone talks about the 280ai and non magnum recoil, the difference is much less then you think.
280AI's fill a nonexistent void between the 280 and the 7mag. Gimme the "big" 7 and some 180 VLD's please.
Of the cartridges up for debate, I really like the 7 saum.
You do know the 7mm SAUM and the 280AI have the same case capacity? I'll take the SAUM over 7RM anyday, that is, if I can keep enough brass for it. Hard to find of late.
George, the 280ai is a tremendous round but no matter what you do, it is not a 7 RM, and no, I am not a fan of the RM but facts are facts, also check the recoil calculators as everyone talks about the 280ai and non magnum recoil, the difference is much less then you think.
As is the difference between the 280ai and the 7rm. A difference, sure. A realistic difference for his or my purposes? *shrug*
The 280ai is just cool, so it gets my vote. Any jagaloon can slum a rem mag
George, the 280ai is a tremendous round but no matter what you do, it is not a 7 RM, and no, I am not a fan of the RM but facts are facts, also check the recoil calculators as everyone talks about the 280ai and non magnum recoil, the difference is much less then you think.
As is the difference between the 280ai and the 7rm. A difference, sure. A realistic difference for his or my purposes? *shrug*
The 280ai is just cool, so it gets my vote. Any jagaloon can slum a rem mag
Evidently, any 'jagaloon' can slum a 280 AI, too...
George, the 280ai is a tremendous round but no matter what you do, it is not a 7 RM, and no, I am not a fan of the RM but facts are facts, also check the recoil calculators as everyone talks about the 280ai and non magnum recoil, the difference is much less then you think.
As is the difference between the 280ai and the 7rm. A difference, sure. A realistic difference for his or my purposes? *shrug*
The 280ai is just cool, so it gets my vote. Any jagaloon can slum a rem mag
Evidently, any 'jagaloon' can slum a 280 AI, too...
Tanner
I thought Jabroni's slummed the 280ai and utilitarian's love the 7mm mag.
George, the 280ai is a tremendous round but no matter what you do, it is not a 7 RM, and no, I am not a fan of the RM but facts are facts, also check the recoil calculators as everyone talks about the 280ai and non magnum recoil, the difference is much less then you think.
As is the difference between the 280ai and the 7rm. A difference, sure. A realistic difference for his or my purposes? *shrug*
The 280ai is just cool, so it gets my vote. Any jagaloon can slum a rem mag
I do not disagree and if you look at all the 7mm's discussed and the op's intended purpose, is there any real difference with any of them. I'm thinking about thinning the herd a little bit and could probably do everything I need with a 7-08 but when you get up to the 154's and 160 class bullets the 280 rem pushes them where I like around 2800-2900+/- fps. I can make a 280 a 7-08 velocity wise but can not make a 7-08 a 280 so really thinking about this one.
Any chance either one of your 7-08's is on a savage long also?
W
Nope both are on Savage short actions both have 22inch tubes and both shoot really well, 120 BTs at 3050fps for deer and such, 140 accubonds also shoot well and have used them some for hogs and deer,, I have only shot one 7mm-08 past 400 but it shoots as well as I can out to there, only running a 10x scope on it so things get a little small out there. The other 7mm-08 runs a 6x and it's what I hunt with most of the time around here.
This is a fun thread and the feedback is good info,,,,,
1 in 9 for the heavies,,, still thinking on the chamber
According to Lony at Hornady longer necks allow barrels to last up to twice as long. He bases that on the load development and benchrest competition with a .22-243 and a .22-6Rem.
Really if I can get a chambering that does with the 160-175 grain class of 7mm bullets what the 7mm-08 does with the 120-140 class of bullets I will be a happy camper,,,, I think my 3 original choices will be close enough to that to not need the 7mmMag,,, Just want more umphhh for the heavy bullets,,,
1 in 9 for the heavies,,, 24 inch sporter tube,,still thinking on the chamber
"According to Lony at Hornady longer necks allow barrels to last up to twice as long. He bases that on the load development and benchrest competition with a .22-243 and a .22-6Rem.
Is that important?"
Probably not for me,, I'll put max, a hundred rounds a year through this one, perhaps more if I just love shooting it,,, but I have to make a trip to shoot past 300 yards.
280AI's fill a nonexistent void between the 280 and the 7mag. Gimme the "big" 7 and some 180 VLD's please.
Of the cartridges up for debate, I really like the 7 saum.
You do know the 7mm SAUM and the 280AI have the same case capacity? I'll take the SAUM over 7RM anyday, that is, if I can keep enough brass for it. Hard to find of late.
You do know the 7 saum is in a short action and the 280ai in a long, right? Given a long action, gimme a vanilla 280 or a step it up to the 7 mag. The AI is gay.
Seeing as how I own a pair of 7SAUM's, the answer would be yes. Brass may be hard to find, but it don't cost two bucks a pop and I don't have to form anything. Belts suck and blow. I'll give up 100fps gladly to not be bothered with 'em.
I have a 284 Win in a ULA Model 20. 55 grains of IMR 4350 and a 140 grain Nosler Partition (I get 3000 fps) has killed many sheep, elk, caribou, and mountain goats out to 500 yards. I got a Kimber Mountain Ascent in 280 Ackley about a year or so ago. After playing around with loads I use 62 grains of H4831 SC and a 140 grain Barnes Triple Shock (I get about 3150 fps). I have used this bullet in many other rifles with good success, only shot an animalope with it this year. The 280 AI is 7 Mag performance for sure hotter than the 284 but in reality the 284 will probably due whatever the 280 Ackley will do in a hunting situation. The 284 Win loaded like I load mine will give you 280 Remington performance. Both fun cartridges. Anyways they are both pretty damn good.
My experience exactly.
The OP didn't specify what game he was pursuing but if for ungulates from elk on down, all cartridges named are good-to-go. With ballistic reticles or turrets now, any ballistic differences between them are meaningless. Practical matters, then, like brass, recoil, cost of build changes would be prioritized if it were me.
Anecdotally, my short action 284 spits out the long TTSXs, the 140s and 150s, at 3000 and 2900 fps respectively with R17. And those are not top end. My last deer with this 284 was a couple of steps south of 500 yds and went to sleep with a single round through the chest using a Zeiss Rapid-Z 600.
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