I have made posts in the past singing the praises of my Tikka rifles. I think my latest one may have a problem and was hoping to find a fix. Since I need the ability to dial way up because I use this rifle for long range play, I'm putting this post here.

Last year I bought a NIB 7-08 T3 lite SS. (I've had two others in different cartridges that were great.) I mounted my 3-9 Leupold in the Talley rings and found out I was about 18 minutes right of the center of the scope's center. Since scopes work better when centered and I thought maybe the base screws were drilled off center, I sold the Talleys (for a $25 loss) and bought a pair of Warnes that mount on the rifle's integral rail. Same problem, I need to use 18 MOA of the scope's windage adjustment to get sighted in.

I called Warne. The very helpful guy I spoke with sent me a new set of rings just in case. Nope, the rings are all matched and straight, something is off with the rifle. Great CS BTW.

I can't go to the Burris rings with the inserts that let you correct for alignment errors because the rifle stock has been drilled for a check rest and switching to the Burris (and it would only give me 10MOA of the 18 I want back because I now want to mount a 30mm SWFA and the BUrris 30mm only come with a +/- 10 set) would raise the scope too much for the check rest. Plus it would cost over $100, plus a new $40 check rest.

What is my best option? Just live with the scope that far over? I'm afraid of what that will do to tracking, especially if I need to put a bunch of left wind in. I shoot this rifle at 1000 at the range in Rexburg. It is usually very windy and it is very common to have over 7 minutes of wind. Sometimes way over. Because of the scope isn't centered, I've just been holding off. I'd like to dial in windage for playing, but I really think running a scope that far over from its mechanical center is asking for problems. Maybe it would be different with the SWFA? This is my first one. I ran it up to 8 mils (My 1K zero and it tracked straight up, but that was without any additional windage correction. Maybe I should continue to just live with it and hold for wind, but I know it will bother me. That's what I've been doing, and it is working, but I would like to fix it.

Should I take it to a gunsmith to try and angle the rails with a dremel? I'd imagine that would be really hard to get them all angled together? (And expensive.)

Do I see if the gunsmith can drill and tap new base holes that would be out of alignment with the receiver but straight with the barrel? I'd need to buy another pair of Talleys and pay for the work, and it may be difficult to angle all the holes the same in relationship to the barrel. I'm guessing that option would be at least $150.

I once had a Ruger 7 Mag that had the same problem. A gunsmith fixed it by putting a small brass shim under one of the base screws. However, this isn't just one screw wrong, I think the barrel wasn't threaded on straight. If I put one shim somewhere on this rifle, wouldn't that stress the scope tube by trying to bend the front the right way when the receiver is already straight?

Do I see how much it would be to have the barrel rethreaded and rechambered? I'm guessing that would be the most expensive option.

I could sell it to someone who would just hunt it and wouldn't care, but replacing it would cost me about $270. (Around here I'd get $400 for the rifle, then a new one is $670 after tax.)

Or should I just send it back to Tikka and see if they'll fix it? I've read here that Beretta doesn't have good CS and I worry that I'd be paying for shipping to be told it's fine. If I do that should I pay a gunsmith to look at the rifle first to make sure I'm not overlooking a solution before I have to box up the rifle and pay for the shipping?

I've tried three sets of rings and three scopes. I think it has to be a rifle problem.

One of my favorite things about the Tikkas was that they didn't need any work! Oh well. Thank you for any advice. I knew selling my hunting rifles and only keeping one was a mistake!

I just read back over what I typed. Sorry that was so much info. The repairs sound pretty cheesy and I'm leaning to either living with it or sending it to Tikka and hoping they'll fix it.

I think I'd try to get Tikka to fix it. That said, I'm told they're owned by Berretta now and that Beretta's not very helpful. If you have a good relationship with the store you bought it at, they might help you more. Good luck.

I'm guessing the action holes are not drilled in alignment with the center line of the bore.

While not PC with the in crowd, the simplest fix is to run windage adjustable base.

Send it back.



Travis

Picatinny Rail

Sounds like you ruled out the mounting systems since you tried two different types.

Either the barrel isn't square with the action, or maybe your scope is jAcKeD? Hold a mirror tight to the ojective lense and look through the eyepiece and see how far off your reticle is from center.

yeah,any rings with windage adjustment would be a easy fix. have you tried the factory groove mount rings.

I've now tried it with two Leupold Mark ARs, a Burris Mtac, and the SWFA. They all need about 18 minutes left to get centered. I've tried two sets of Warnes and a set of Talleys.

I'm thinking it has to be the rifle and it needs sent in.
I just called the SW about 20 minutes away. They have a set of Talleys in stock, but after three sets or rings, I think it would be a waste of time.

Regarding the rail, I think it would still point the scope the wrong way.

I may call a gunsmith and ask what he say. If we can't come up with any other explanation, or he can't, I'll contact Tikka.

I'd send it back as someone else suggested. No excuse for being off that bad.

Cut your losses and try again. God only knows what else is out of whack on the rifle

Tikka has a two year guarantee and they are always talking about their "out of the box accuracy." I would take it back to the place you purchased it along with your warranty card and let them deal with it.

Sounds like everything was ruled out. I would send it back. My Savage has the holes drilled off center, and at one point a gunsmith also pointed the barrel run out to the side too. Talk about being way out of whack.

I was told to try laying the barreled action on a level counter and measuring how high the end of the barrel was above the counter, then flipping the action and measuring the other side.
WHen laying the action on it's left side, the right side of the barrel is about .015 higher than when it's flipped. That means that the barrel is pointing that far to the right.

I'll call a gunsmith just to ask, but I'll probable either end up either selling it to someone who doesn't dial way up and won't care, (and I'd eat the difference for a new one- ouch), or sending it to Beretta. (Probable the best choice, I just don't like the idea of not having the rifle for a month. Time to get out the target rifles...)
Thanks for the ideas.

Yes, I missed that you had tried the receiver holes in your original post, I thought you were using the receiver cuts.

Your barrel / receiver is skewed. It's a factory defect, and the rifle should not have left the factory like that. I would take it back to the dealer where you purchased it, or send it back to Beretta for replacement with a rifle that is not defective on their dime.

I'll be waiting to hear how they honor their warranty.

did you try using the factory rings?? how does the gun shoot??

Not to sound negative but I sent in a 22 pistol to beretta that the safety quit working. It would fire with the safety on or off. Beretta was going to charge me a ridiculous price to replace so I told them to send it back and had a local gun smith fix it for almost nothing. All that was wrong was something came loose on the safety. I couldn't believe they would fix a safety issue on a gun only a few months old but they said it wasn't their fault.
Hope your luck is better!

I did not try the factory rings. I did on my first Tikka, and the scope slipped. It had been mounted on a Sinclair rod, everything clean and tightened correctly, but I lost confidence in the rings even though I know guys who have had goof luck with them.
Since then I've been using Talley or Warne.

I guess I could just go with a windage adjustable mount, but the reason I went to the heavy SWFA scope and heavy warne mounts is that this was supposed to me the hard use, don't worry about it rifle, and I've heard way too many people relate that windage adj. mounts are far weaker than Warnes. Looking back at what I just typed I realize how picky that sounds, but this is now my only hunting rifle and I want it set up a certain way. (And the scope at least close to being centered!)

Regarding how it shoots: It shoots like a Tikka! Okay with Horn. 120s, has a preference for H4350 over Varget or 8208, and with that 4350 and Horn 154 Sp, 139 SST, and the Amax, it is REALLY accurate.

Too busy today, but I'll take it to a smith when I can. I, too, have heard that Beretta CS is lacking and will try local first.
I'll post what he says.

You know that with the Burris you can go +10 on the front and -10 on the back to get 20 MOA, right?

Still not sure why everyone has written off Berretta without even contacting them yet. Give them a call and see what they say.

David, for some reason I thought the 30mm only had 10 MOA. Since it's 20, that would work. I'd need the Burris rings, some bases, and since the rifle stock was drilled for a check piece that can't go any higher, I'd need a strap on check piece. (I think the Burris set up will be about .3 higher and I know I'd loose my check weld.) It would work, but be $150. ($200 to go with the Tikka Performance steel base with the lug to give me strength closer to the Warnes.)

Thanks for pointing out the Burris have enough correction, it's good to have that option. I'm hoping to find a less expensive one, though!

dogcatcher, I haven't written Beretta off. Online the west coast service center says it's 4 weeks. With shipping I'm guessing longer. I'm going to talk to someone local first to make sure there isn't an easy fix I'm overlooking. (Maybe a dremel to angle the rails?) If it is going to be an expensive fix, I'll call Beretta. Since the stock has been drilled, I hope they don't say it messes up the warranty. I'd probable just send in the B/A.

I'll post what the gunsmith says.

I wouldn't dremel a straight receiver to fix a crooked barrel.

PS. The EGW "HD" rails are about the lowest base on the market.

I'd send it to Beretta. A year from now you'll forget all about the 4-week wait. You'll have a straight rifle with the rings and scope you wanted, not some rinky-dink solution.

Just pray its not a 4-month wait!

Jason

Not sure what to think. When I bought my T3 lite SS, I tried to space my Warne rings 3.6" center to center with good clearance front and back. That way, 0.001" of offset would correspond roughly to 1" at 100 yds. This seemed to work pretty well. Also (in fact the first thing I did) was to carefully clean the grooves on both sides of the receiver with solvent and q-tips. Any gunk left in there as a preservative, or machine debris could throw your windage alignment out of synch.

End result is that I ended up with 6 1/2 minutes of left windage as my no-wind zero. I can live with that, as my main use of this Tikka is hunting, and with the CDS system, I am dialed dead nuts to 715 yds. That is further than I would shoot at an unwounded critter, and I still have 9 clicks of elevation to play with. At that range, even if you have full windage adjustment, you don't have much room for error if you misjudge wind direction or speed. You sound like someone who has done a lot of target shooting, so you no doubt have learned to watch mirage. Watching mirage has made me realize that at long range, wind can change from the time you decide to make your adjustments to the time you squeeze the last few ounces out of your trigger - basically cancelling your best wind doping within a couple of seconds.

I shoot some f-class, and have just dabbled in varmint benchrest silhouette, and I am learning to hold off somewhat to make hits, not ideal, and it has made me very wary about long shots on game when it's windy. I am pretty sure my wind-reading ability is not up to long shots on game with no flags or other clues, even if I wanted to dial it up, which I do not.

Like a lot of mass-produced firearms, Tikkas just don't have the care of setup and workmanship and polishing that more expensive rifles will have. They are meant for hunting in the hands of everyday shooters, though with CNC machining and Sako cold hammer-forged barrels, and some other innovations, they do pretty well.

The rifle overall may be fine, and the misalignment of the grooves could be corrected in a number of ways, most of them already mentioned. I don't know that there is any other fix, certainly not an easy one, as it seems to me squaring everything up would require removing the barrel, milling the back of the barrel and front of the receiver, then running in another reamer to clean up the chamber that would be set back a few thousandths. A new rifle would be easier. Or just adjust for the misalignment.

If you do much target shooting, you will probably be changing the barrel in a few years anyway, maybe sooner.

It is no fun to have a new rifle with an annoying defect and no good options to correct it.

forepaw

I would try shims between the rings and base, you can buy a package from Brownell's or make it yourself with a pair of tin snips and a beer can.

IMO...Tikka's make a good boat anchor....as long as you tie a cinder block to 'em!!

At least contact Beretta, so we can confirm what douche bags they are.

True. If you want a heavy piece of junk to sink to the bottom, get an M700 or Savage.

I called Beretta, the owners of Tikka. The man I spoke to said they don't replace barrels, but to call the California service center. The man in California said to send it in and their turn around is about three weeks. (The website says four.)

I paid $560 for the rifle NIB last year. If they are just going to refund the money if the barrel is installed crooked, and it will cost me about $20 to send it to them, and I could get maybe $450 for it in the local paper (more likely 400); maybe I should just sell it and eat the $90 (Or $150)I'd lose just replacing it with a new one when I'm in Missoula in a few weeks. (No sales tax.)

I'll think about it. I'm curious to see what they would do to it if I send it in.

I would let Beretta replace it or refund you. #1. You don't want to pass a problem on to someone else. Even if you tell that first buyer, there is no telling who may ultimately wind up with it and it be a problem for them. #2. Beretta needs to know and have to spend money because this one passed their QC. It's the only way that they will work to insure QC is even better. I know just one won't matter to them but you are still part of the entire number if you do send it in.

You're right, about passing on a problem. I would never stick someone with a bum gun.
If I did sell it, I'd tell the guy about it. It is only a problem (actually might be a problem) if you dial WAY up and then left wind.

Another thing that is bothersome (Beretta being a PITA notwithstanding), is what is happening to Tikka's QC. They have state of the art mfg. facilities - jigs, lasers, computers, accuracy testing and accuracy guarantee - can't help but wonder if there is some organizational issue, or if they have scaled back quality oversight or what has happened to their tooling and inspection. I do remember reading somewhere that their counterpart to U.S. independent mfg. QC is essentially the local police department. I thought that was a little disturbing.

I have also been suspicious about the calibers that never seem to make it to the U.S. (e.g. 6.5x55), though they are available overseas. They would sell here like hotcakes, but no one imports them or can get them.

forepaw

I wonder what the real US market thinks of the 6.5x55? I know people on this site like them, but we are usually the minority. I have a Tikka in the Swede, but got lucky before they quit importing them. I cannot help but think they would import them if they were a money maker though.

I wouldn't hesitate to send it in.

I don't think its quite that simple. If you think about mounting them on a pic rail, if you put the two rings closer together, the cant increases and vice versa. There's a formula for figuring out how many minutes you get that includes the distance but I don't remember it.

Very true. It's a matter of trigonometry and geometry to calculate the total angular cant (a simple calculation). But yes, you can use a +10 on front and -10 on rear for a total of 0.020" cant between rifle and scope.

This is the OP.

Regarding going to the Burris with the inserts; even with the low rail I'd end up about .25 higher than I am now. I would totally lose my check weld. This stock has been drilled for a Karsten rest and it is at it's highest now. I'd be out the rail, rings, and new check rest, so at least $150. Rather than do that, I'll either just live with it or send it in.

In case anyone was waiting to see how Beretta CS handled this, I just wanted to let you know that if I decide to send it in it won't be till at least the start of July. Spring bear here goes through the end of June and I have some fun shoots with buddies coming up anyway.
If I decide to send it in, I'll post what happens.

Thanks for the help.

I'm not sure what you want to hear. You don't want to send it in, you don't want to switch rings. Sounds to me like you are stuck with it.

I would send it in and play with other guns in the meantime. If it comes back and they didn't fix it, I would sell it and move on.

I wanted to hear some suggestions in case I was overlooking something. I did switch rings three times, I just don't want to switch to the Burris for that cost.

Since it doesn't sound like I was overlooking something and it may need sent it, if I do that, it would be after bear season.

dogcatcher, if I could have found one in Swede (like yours), I would have gotten that instead! This rifle is accurate and I like it, I was just looking for a way to get my scope centered to eliminate any potential problems dialing wind.

I do appreciate the advice and ideas. Thanks again.

Just hold off for wind

I imagine it is the barrel that has bad runout, not a crooked action or crooked thread job.

I might be interested if you decide to sell it. Make a good platform for a 284, or 280, or 6.5-284 or...

It's common for a barrel bore to be crooked to some degree, even very good ones. Thats why barrels need to be correctly indexed to the receiver for long range work. Its an easy fix for a competent gunsmith, but no factory that I know of does this.

If that is your only issue, yours is a too large variation and I would want it to be fixed.

But if everything else is true, and it is just the set of the bore, the correct way to fix is to re-index the barrel so that it is centered and points up.

That should be able to be done locally, and not cost a lot.

But first, someone competent has to look at your rifle and confirm if that is the actual problem.

I know the Signiture rings only come in Medium height and higher...But why not buy the regular Zee rings in low, and buy the posi-align kit to use there. I don't see how you can bee running out of cheek weld this way.

Also, Leupold makes the STD windage adjustable bases for the T3...why are these not a consideration?

Good info and worth investigating.

I was thinking that the OP could get a blank rail and have a competent gunsmith D&T new holes in the receiver. Drill and counterbore holes in the blank to match. But the barrel indexing seems like the better route.

I'd just send the sucker in, play with other rifles, and be done with it.

That can be done. Probably doesn't require a blank rail, if upgrading to #8 screws the holes can be milled off center and several thou of windage can be dialed in, but that is a fix for off-center scope mounting holes, not barrel/receiver issues. I'm very practical minded, but I don't recommend patching a problem when fixing it might be easier.

Either way, it shouldn't be the owner's problem, as the rifle or the barrel was defective from the factory, and Beretta needs to fix it or replace it as they see fit...it's their problem.

If it was my company I'd want to do what was the best outcome for the customer.

It might not be timely now, but IDMilton should be able to walk into the dealer where he bought it, tell him the rifle isn't right, and walk out with a new rifle. The dealer should just swap out the stock if he modified it.

Going from a #6 to a #8 doesn't allow for any wiggle room. The tapped #6 hole is a perfect pilot for #8 tap. Just did this upgrade on a rifle last evening. I forget what size the Tikka receiver holes are but I thought they were roughly #6 or M3.5.

No matter what, if indexing, tapping, etc. doesn't fix the issue (i.e. the root cause is not what we think it is) then the warranty will be void.

I appreciate all the ideas. Since this is my only hunting rifle left, I'm going to keep it around until after spring bear.
If I send it in, I'll post what they say. (I was actually told to send it their service center in California.)
I don't think I'll pursue taking it back to the shop I bought it at. The guy isn't carrying Tikkas anymore, that's why I got it for $560 NIB, he was closing them out. I guess I could, but I'm kind of curious what Beretta will do after having heard so many comments.
Anyway, if I send it in I'll let you know.

Any chance the shop you purchased from is a Davidson's dealer? They have a lifetime warranty in addition to what the factory provides.