I am looking for a 7mm Rem Magnum for longer shots primarily for elk hunting. Looking for a good quality rifle with about 26 inch barrel that has the attributes of long range rifle should have. The only one I have seen so far are the Browning X bolt and A bolt. Before I buy one of those I thought I would ask how good they are and if there are other better choices that you all would recommend. My Budget is about 1200. However for a really good buy and quality I can be a little more flexible.

Many Thanks

Sendero

A bit of background. How do you hunt elk? Terrain? Backpack, horses, etc?


What is your experience in long range shooting?

7 Remington Magnum's are too inconsistent.

Whats long range for you?

I have shot elk at about 300 yards with both a .308 and a 30-06 with shooting sticks. I have passed longer shots. With shooting sticks I would draw my shooting limits at about 400 yards maybe 450.

I am essentially looking for something that gives me reach out to about 450 yards with authority with good accuracy and does not have a nasty kick.

So is the 7mm not very consistent ? Are there better options for what I am looking to do ?

The rifles you have are perfectly capable to 450 yards...

7 RM is an excellent cartridge. Depending on where and how you hunt there are quite a few Remington 700's to choose from. The SS SPS or the Sendero are both decent rigs. A Stainless SPS dropped into a McMillan can be a rock solid choice. 450 yards is very doable with a sporter weight rifle shooting prone.

A Sendero would make a man out of most guys in elk country, but I've seen more than a few guys doing it. Quite a few do for a season but not near as many do it more than once.

The ABolts are pretty light rifles, I know a bunch of guys that really like them. The one I briefly owned was a shooter.

Put a 6x SWFA milquad on the 06, buy reloading equipment if you do not have any, and shoot a bunch. Post pics of dead elk.

You might look at what BSA did to a model 70 here:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth.../1/I_ve_been_thinking_about_selli#UNREAD

Reloder28, not sure I understand what you meant by they are inconsistent? Could you maybe expand on this?

Thanks

Pieter

You almost couldn't find a 7mm RM that won't do what you want done at 450-500 yards. Go with the rifle that fits and feels best to you. I've had my old tang safety Ruger for 35 years and that 7 kills stuff pretty well. It is glass bedded and had the trigger done and shoots the 150 grain TTSX or NBT loads under 1/2 inch for 5 shots if I don't screw up too badly. There are several rifles way under your price limit that guaranty an inch or less Tikka, Weatherby Vanguard, and others but I like Brownings and wouldn't hesitate to get one if that is a rifle you like. As long as you load your own rounds and use a decent scope you should be able to get your 7 dialed in to hit deer vitals at 500 yards from a good rest all day long. Past 350 or so the wind is the most important factor.

You will find that most of the long range shooters will dial in their scopes for ultimate accuracy. At under 600 yards even those ranging reticles like the Zeiss z600 or 800 will be accurate enough for deer and elk hunting. The 7 is a good flat shooting gun that tends to be pretty darn accurate and doesn't kick much in comparison to its performance. There are several calibers that will do what you want, lately I think if I were buying a do everything rifle I might go with a 300 WSM and stick wth a short action that is very efficient shooting a 180 grain bullet near the velocity of the 150 grain bullets in the seven with similar felt recoil.

add a 6.5-20 leup, a muzzle break and you have it.

If I had $1,200 and wanted a 7mmRM with high odds of being a very accurate rifle, I would build it.

Get a model 700 SPS donor for around $400. Find a laminate take-off factory stock for $150 (they are solid and have some weight to them). Have a quality stainless barrel installed in factory magnum contour or maybe a #4 with a 1" shank ($5-600). Have the stock bedded and the trigger tuned ($200). You should come in somewhere around $1,200 and this would be my route for getting the most reliable accuracy odds for that money. The naked rifle would be around 8lbs. It is likely that the prices listed above could be beaten with a little research.

That would probably work well Reloader. I'd probably first look to find a good, used Tikka 695. I've been running one for 15 years and it's typically tikka accurate and very tough. You could probably find one under $700, put Doug's 3.5-10x44 Meopta on it and be set.

I've been eyeing the Roughneck Sako. Believe Europtic has some in 7 Rem Mag. First Stop Guns has one in a Cooper that keeps me up at night.

I bought a stock Ruger Hawkeye chambered 7mm Rem Mag a few years ago along with some Federal 150 gr blue box ammo. Ran it to 500 yards and the combo stayed in about 6". No need to lug a Sendero in elk country.

lf the cartridge was a lemon l would not have owned 15-20 of them ( there's three here now and l have lost count).It's perfectly suited to any open country elk hunting. I'd get a rem 700, Ruger, or Win M70.

Ruger 77 or Winchester model 70 for me please..

I'll take a Win M70 please!

BSA, I sure hope Bobin is listening to us.

Shod

We all know what he really prefers..

Shod: Two are customs...a Len Brownell on a pre 64 action. A Bansner stocked M70 Classic with Brux barrel, and another Classic with Borden Rimrock that is not quite "done"...but all are M70's.

I try to stay open minded with other folks taste in mind ( grin).

They sound like awesome rifles Bob. Especially the model 70 part

Bobin sir...you're taste is impeccable! (Grin)

Shod

Bought a inexpensive 700 ADL and put it in a B&C Alaska, timney trigger and mounted a Nikon 3x10 I think. Under $1000 for sure. Accurate hammer to 800 yards. Been to a 1000 need a little more scope for me at that range. Berger 180's over a stiff dose of Ramshot Magnum. Have another in a mickey but that cost a bit more.

Here's one I'll bet would really shoot.... Shameless plug on my part.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=450428923

I'll bet that rifle shoots like a house on fire. What's wrong with it???

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/9295025/1

that's cheap enough.

add Bansner stock, 2pc mounts and shoot elk

I just put together my second 7mm Rem Mag.

A six digit stainless classic featherweight, that is currently at the smiths waiting to be bedded into a McMillan Edge.

Bbl is 24"....weight should be right around 8# with Talley LW and a 3.5-10 VX3 with CDS.

I have 160 Partitions and 162 A-Max loads ready to go over RL 25 and 7828 SSC.

Good man. Your bullet selection sounds like mine . I also have some 140gr. combined tech bullets, but have never tried them . My rifle weighs in at 8.4 pounds and it is so sweet and manageable to shoot. One of these days I'd love to throw mine into an edge and shave almost 1/2 a pound. You have great taste in rifles. How does yours shoot by the way??

Never fired a round out of it, but it�s built right.

Not sure yet BSA, I tend to bed first and shoot after.

After my smith finishes up I'll let you know.

As an aside, when he's done I have a 6 digit classic stainless in 7 STW and a Pacific Research Rimrock he'll bed next.

Back in the 80's, as now, most manufacturers made 7 rem mags a bit too much on the heavy side. I solved this by sending a pre 64 FWaction with alloy BM to Butch Searcy along with a Krieger 9 twist tube. We played with the contour until we got it right and Butch bedded it in a Brown Precision stock. The result was a rifle that weigheda skosh over 7-1/4 pounds scoped.

It was incredibly accurate with 7828 and 160 partitions at 3100 fps; 140 BBCs at 3250 or so. I hunted it all over for about 15 years. It was a big hit and someone was always trying to buy it. Eventually the barrel went south. I have built a couple more aon Classic actions that went under 8#s but never quite as light.

Have an "early" M-70 classic, too in 7RM, tho it started life as a 280.

What happened at 7 digits?

Weighs in at 7.45# all up w/Zeiss in an MPI. That is about right for carrying all day and off the bench with 160s. Have 7WB chambered, too, but the 7mags (for me) get pretty obnoxious in a very light rifle when loaded to the max. There a line there somewhere and they get to be two different critters especially around that 7# mark... Between my ears, the 7RM is best as an elk cartridge and may be the best one if such a thing was possible...outside of print.

Put a Timney in a Remington 700 TI action yesterday...as much as I like that rifle, adjusting sheet metal components isn't a confidence building exercise. Prefer the Mauser & M70 (with the "open" trigger design, thank-you) for stuff that may get abused for a week or two at a time.

"back in the 80's' I was trading Belgium Brownings for guys. Got a 7RM that was a beautiful gun for an African bound dentist and it weighed a full 9# due to heavy barrel. I took it outside and shot the designated stump. The muzzle seems to stay almost flat. That was quite a contrast to the really abusive ADL I was hunting at the time.

It is about impossible for me to give abolts et al any real consideration after having their predecessors thru my hands....

Lionclaw, did you look at the Kimbers?

Here's mine recently back from a redo by Jon Beanland. I've been away at work for 3 weeks so haven't got the scope on it or weighed yet. Something to do this week!

M70 classic stainless, Bartlein 5R #2B 1-9 twist at 24". McMillan hunters edge stock, PT&G aluminum bottom metal cerakoted satin mag. 375 H&H magazine, follower & bolt stop to allow longer COAL.

That's just good etiquette as far as I'm concerned. I've been doing the same thing.

I used to shoot my rifles first and then bed. Every single rifle still got bedded and all shot better.

Now I bed first.

Shod

Im playing with 3 Winchester mod 70 long range rigs in 7 STW, one is a Custom shop, Sporting Sharpshooter, Mac stock,timm trigger and Schneider barrel, the other 2 are Laredos, one is 24" plus a BOSS, the other is plain barrel 26" Classic Laredos LRH, The jury is still out as to which is the most accurate. I am using Rem 140 gr cor locs and Fed Prem 160 gr Accubombs, I also ended up with 2 sets of dies. I was able to buy a case of the Federal so I would have plenty of brass but dog gone the factory ammo is so accurate I have done no handloading. When I figure which gun I like the most I will sell the other 2, 300 yards is as far as I have reached out thus far and the BOSS gun was sub 2" at 300, good enough for me and a dead Whitetail any day. I will post photos a bit later as Im going to tune the Sporting sharpshooter today.
Going back to the OP, Im Winchester to the bone,usually pre 64 mod 70's but these darn things are turning into a barrel of fun! very best WinPoor

Don't want to be critical. I have owned several 7 RM's over the years, worked up loads for friends 7 RM's & talked to several people who have also found the same issues with them. They show a tendency to exhibit sporadic pressure variances. That equals inconsistency to me. For years they may shoot fine & then one day they don't. The last one I had I could not even get past the load work-up stage before it started.


David Tubbs, has also spoken about this cartridge citing the same observation.


Meanwhile, here is an excerpt from a 2003 24CF thread from Mule Deer:
Perhaps a more accurate term would be "wide pressure swings" rather than spikes. It seemingly occurs with about every hunting weight bullet in the 7mm Remington Magnum.

In general, the labs expect maximum pressure swings of 2000-5000 psi with most cartridges, but of course look for the lower as a sign of a consistent load. It's pretty easy to find this sort of spread in most cartridges.

But the 7mm Remington Magnum will swing 8000 or even 10000, and often after several identical rounds have stayed within 4000 psi of each other. And oddly enough, the 7mm STW, which has the identical shoulder angle and short neck, doesn't show the same swings! This indicates that the shoulder angle/short neck theory probably isn't correct.

The problems with the .243 don't show up as much until the throat becomes a little worn--and again, only with bullets in the 100-grain weighr range. Once again, they don't know why.

Despite all this, the 7mm Remington Magnum and .243 Winchester have reputations as accurate cartridges, at least among hunters. I have used both a lot with excellent results. But nobody picks them as target rounds, and the erratic pressure swings are one reason. Oddly enough, if you neck either case up a little, to .30 from 7mm in the case of the magnum, and from 6mm to 6.5mm in the case of the .243, the problem goes away. Why? Nobody knows.

_________________________
John

Quality control went to hell.

Scope mounting holes in the receiver cockeyed for example.

Sweet! Poifect!

I've had either 3 or 4 7mags can't exactly remember. The one I still own is M70 Custom Super Grade. With this one I had to go about 4.5 grains over a book max. load in order to reach 2900 fps with a 175 gr. bullet. I find its recoil to be more bothersome than a .338 win. mag I own altho admittedly the latter has a muzzle brake.

Today I use a 30-06 in place of the 7 mag even though the 7 is a far prettier gun.

Jim

Jim l have worked with quite a few Winchester barrels over the years in 7mm and 300 win mag and have noticed a tendency for them to take somewhat heavier charges to get to velocity as you noticed with your 175-7mm combo.

This is not unique to the 7 Rem Mag.

It may be due to throat length and rifling and might be a built in goof factor to be certain the rifle per ft orms and functions with the impossibly wide range of factory ammo available for popular cartridges. They never know what ammo will br used.

These factors have an effect on the velocities we see and why your rifle might accept heavier ch as rges than those in the manuals for the same veloc ities.

Lik l saud l have akso seen this with the 300 win mag.

This is exactly the reason I went with the 280 AI and will be getting a 260 in the future and not a 243. Noticeably less throat erosion is also an added bonus.

Shod

Sweet, I like that. Let us know how it shoots..

Same here. My Ruger 77's groups shrank by 1/2 consistently and the Winchester model 70's by almost that much. I consider proper glass bedding the foundation of a rifle.

I've become fond of this Hill Country Rifle 7RM. A real shooter. [img:left][/img]

It just ain't hard to get a 7mm Rem Mag to perc if we can walk and chew gum at the same time... (grin).

Anything in the way of criticism that can be said about it....(doesn't give the velocitywith manual loads, loads vary too much, too much pressure, too little prrssure, varies rifle to rifle, blah blah blah) can and does happen with and among others... the 270, 280, 7/08, 257, 30/06, 300 wsm, 7mm wsm,300 win mag 338 win mag etcetc...l have loaded for them all and more and seen exactly the same things in ALL of them

If you jump from magic cartridge to magic cartridge looking for a "cure" to all this, you're dreaming.

If it were inconsistent yhe long range boys vould not load it w iyh heavy VLDs and kill elk and stuff at 800-1000 yards. Too much silly talk about the cartridge....phooey.

For this you don't need a clumsy 26" barrel.

First thing that comes to mind is a Rem 700 stainless SPS, they are not very heavy. Next thing you will need is a Timney trigger for it. A Zeiss Conquest or Leupold VX3 scope and some good quality two piece scope mounts, a sling and case and you should still be within your budget.

[quote=BobinNH]It just ain't hard to get a 7mm Rem Mag to perc if we can walk and chew gum at the same time... (grin).

You had me till you brought up the gum chewing part!

Shod

I would do what JPro said.. The Remington's long action lets you seat the bullet out where it belongs..

Absolutely...one of the things l BBC like about the Rem 700. Of course we can do the same with any post 64 M 70 if ee buy a few parts.

First was an old ADL w blackened SS bbl - shot sub MOA all day.
Second was a BDL SS - 1/2" w 150 NBTs

My next, if I wanted another, would be a T3.

Rather a 6.5x55 or 270. 450 yds would not scare me, prefer a 22 vs 24/26 all day.
23 on a custom preferred for long action or if a magnum.

Met a hard core shooter from San Antonio, prefers the RM vs short 7 Mags, used out to 1K. Seems he had CONSISTENCY.

+1 Sako A7 Roughtech, It is on my short list!

CONSISTENCY?

I have had a couple over the years and they have been shooters!

Killed a bunch of deer, elk and pigs with mine.

Your 30-06 with a 26" barrel would be ideal. I have a 30-06 with a 26 e/4" barrel include the brake that gets 2875 FPS with factory 180 grain bullets and 3020 FPS wtih 168.

When I was 10 years old on the playground in 1961, another little boy told me about a wounded bull elk that gored a hunter in the calf of his leg.
Other than that, elk are not dangerous game.
Among ~100 bolt actions analyzed by De Haas, the Rem 700 is the cheapest design to manufacture, while the 98 Mauser is the most expensive. The other bolt action designs are somewhere on the spectrum in between. The Howa is right in the middle.

I am convinced that an elk hunter optimizing for cost is better off with the cheapest, least reliable piece of junk with a quality barrel. [The Rem700]

I quickly and recklessly cut threads and chamber and put an Ebay $35 Rem700 7mmRM take off barrel on a beat up old 1908 Oberndorf Mauser action and beat up old military stock. I welded the bolt and drilled and tapped. It shoots better than I can.

With all the money Rem saves by selling a tube as a receiver, they can put a quality barrel on a Rem700. That is all you need for elk hunting.