I've got limited experience with the 200gr NAB (shooting out to 800y on steel and killing a cow elk at close-range with a 300 Win), but how does the 208gr AMAX compare out of the '06?

- Thinking ~2700 fps muzzle velocity for each from a 30-06.

- How's the 208 AMAX do at close-range for moose and elk? Big bears, bison, and big plains game out of the question?

- At longrange I suspect that the AMAX does well. Better than the NAB?

Did a search but didn't find much comparing the two. I'd appreciate feedback from those who have experience with these bullets.

Thanks,

Jason

Also interested in the 185gr Juggernutz if you fellas have info on those.

I can tell you that the 168 AMAX is no bueno on elk!

I have ran 208 amax out of a 24" barrel using Ramshot Hunter. I was getting 2700 FPS Avg, and was on the hot side. Shot really well, but brass would not last long (maybe 4 loads or so).

Good info trailrider... I have some Hunter on hand. Loose primer pockets? What brass?

I've not used either bullet on elk yet. I did ask around on here and on the long range forum quite a bit though. The long, high-SD A-max have done really well at high speeds and close shots on elk. I figure that at 30-06 speed they should do better, but they seem to be a different animal altogether from the standard hunting bullets, in that they seem to hold together better at close range than at long range. Several accounts have laid this out. John Burns talked about air friction heating up the bullet after it has traveled a bit, and softening it up. I don't know. I do know that with Berger VLD's, I've had similar experiences, where close-range shots produce a less aggressive wound channel than shots past 400 or so.

I've got some 208's, and I did work up an accurate hunting load using R-22 in 30-06. Just over 2600fps. I plan to use them one of these years, as I've seen great results from the 162 7mm at both near and far. The heavies are fun, even at low speed. If 30-30's were twisted faster, I'd work up a load with 208's for them too!

I've seen 200 Accubonds in action at 30-06+P speed out of a SAUM. They make holes through stuff. I've not seen the BC that Nosler claims for them though. Not anywhere near it. I personally don't think they are a long-range bullet, unless long range is 500 yds, or the gun is pushing them past 30-06 speeds. I know of one RUM shooter that loves them, and has used them to good effect out to 800. I don't know the details of his load.

With what I would consider to be full power loads, but not over-max,(loads that will allow the brass to be good for at least a half-dozen or more firings without blowing out the primer pockets).

Here are comparative residual velocities from a 308 at 1000 yds.

215 Berger Hybrid - 1500 fps
208 Amax- 1400 fps
185 Berger Hybrid - 1350 fps
200 AB - 1300 fps
180 AB - 1200 fps
155 Scenar - 1250 fps

The 308 doesn't start these bullets very fast, but collectively are a good example of letting BC work for you, and more than respectable performance from the little 308, while loading over-max to gain 50fps at the muzzle is an example of missing the point.

Each bullet has it's fan base, and while there are more, all of these bullets are load friendly. If a bullet is too finicky, it's not much use at LR. Berger has other bullet choices, but the Hybrids are easier to get to shoot well.

Though somewhat different, all of those bullets will provide at least acceptable if not excellent overall and LR terminal performance... I think they are all good choices and I'd feel comfortable using any of them.

The 215 Berger comes closest to being a "magic bullet" in 30 cal, but I'd say if you want more velocity down range start out with a larger case.

Good post!

TC,

Have you killed any critters with the 215 Burger? The BC is great but I've seen mixed reports under 1900 fps impact. That's why I was leaning more towards the 208 and 200 NAB.

Jason

I killed a decent 4x5 mulie deer this year at 280 yards with a 208 Amax at 2850 MV from my 300 wsm. I hit high lung a little back just under the spine. It was a quick off hand shot. The buck went straight down and the lungs were soup but it did not exit. There was a large bruise on the off side rib cage but no bullet parts were found.

I was thinking about trying the 208's on elk but I'm rethinking that now. Even though 208g is a lot of bullet my sample of 1 looked like it came completely apart and didn't penetrate much. The entrance hole was at least a few inches and looked like expansion was immediate.

I've driven the 200g nab lengthwise almost all the way through an elk.

Bb

Yes and terminal performance of the 215 Berger is very good well below 1900 fps...it's not too bad at 1300 fps...it's a different bullet than the Berger VLDs.

I can't argue with you leaning toward the 208 Amax though for the 30-06, I keep those on hand.

They're both on the list.

Not what I expected Bb. Thanks for the info.

Jason

Here's what I found looking at Ballistics Charts for the bullets your talking about. The Hornady A-Max is a clear winner for maintaining energy at 1000 yds. One thing I think is interesting though, is everyones thinking has come a full revolution from what it was a single decade ago. At that time, everyone looked to the lighter bullets and speed, not the heavier bullets for their long range flight ability. The thing is, there's often a happy medium depending on how far you plan on shooting. Here's a small table I put together to illustrate.

Accubond 165 Grain with a M.V. 3000 maintains 1000 pounds of energy to 775 yards with a retained velocity of 1333 @ 1000yds.

Drop in inches at 600=75.5 700=114.5 800=165.1 900=229.5 1000=310.4

Accubond 180 Grain with a M.V. 2800 maintains 1000 pounds of energy to 750 yards with a retained velocity of 1295 @ 1000yds.

Drop in inches at 600=86.4 700=130.3 800=187 900=258.6 1000=347.9

Accubond 200 Grain with a M.V. 2700 maintains 1000 pounds of energy to 800 yards with a retained velocity of 1385 @ 1000yds.

Drop in inches at 600=88.8 700=132.6 800=188.3 900=257.6 1000=342.6

A-Max 208 Grain with a M.V. of 2700 maintains 1000 pounds of energy to 1000 yards with a retained velocity of 1479 @ 1000yds.

Drop in inches at 600=85.9 700=127.1 800=179.3 900=243.7 1000=322

I guess what I'm trying to say is that out to 1,000 you don't always have to jump straight to the big bullet, although I was surprised at how well the Amax did all the way through. It's got slightly more drop than the 165 Accubond, but it really only begins to catch it at 850 yards or so. Before that, the 165 really performs. I didn't add any wind data, but this is where the big bullets do shine. The 165 out performs the 180, but the 200 grainers definitely outshine the smaller bullets in the wind, and they carry slightly more energy. I always like to think of having at least 1,000 pounds of energy left at impact for elk, and so the 208 Amax has an extra couple hundred yards on the other bullets, mostly from its supper B/C.

Hope this helps! Good luck with your search!

It helps if those numbers (specifically bc's) are validated through actual shooting. Also, I'd be more concerned about wind drift than drop and retained energy.

I agree.

After re-reading my original post it seemed that I was asking about external ballistics of the 200 NAB vs. 208. That wasn't my intent as I can run JBM and have experience with the NAB out to 800 yards.

The feedback I'm looking for is the terminal ballistics on big critters at:

1) close range

and

2) longrange