Working on a new varmit barrel 308 win. in 700 Remington 1 in 12 twist. I had one of these guns 15 to 20 years ago never could get it to shoot. i felt the twist was to slow because standard barrel hunting rifles had 1 in 10 twist. I messed around and got rid of a beautiful rifle. Now Remington still making this lazy twist so it must have been my gun. My question is what bullet weight do you guys shoot with this twist?

I like 150gr bullets in my 308.46.5grs of Varget gives me 2900fps and it shoots a lot flatter at 200yds than my 165gr load of 45.5grs of Varget @ 2700fps.

I think MontanaMarine had luck with bullets from 110gr - 208gr in his 20" barrled 308 Win with a 1/12 twist. The 155 Scenar gets much love as a good all around bullet.


His 208 data: http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/3250787/308Win_208_AMax_RL17

Thanks Baldhunter i tried all of 165,150, 125,110 ballistic tip and sierra bullets lot of driffrent power charges nothing would help that old REMINGTON sone times you get a dog.

I've had great luck with 155gr Scenar's and 45.5 grains of Varget...

155 Scenars are the standard in my wife's .308 but I am seeing promises with the 175 eld so will continue working on it.

I like 125 gr Nos Bal tips in 308 Win and 300 WinMag.

I use a 7 mag for any elk hunting, so I am talking deer bullets primarily. I have two .308s that are 1/2 moa with Hornady Interlocks at 2900 fps. I use CFE223 powder.

Whichever one shoots best...

I've got a 1/12 that loves 165-168 gr. Bullets. No makey no sense, but it shooots them a ton better than the 150-155 grainers.

It has a short tube on it, so I wish it liked the lighter bullets better so I could get the velocity up, but it is what it is...

You'll need a jump tolerant bullet since Linda Lovelace is still doing the throating at Remington. 155 Hybrids shoot well in my Tikka jumping a mile, I'd try them.

. Damn dude your showin our age!

actually, as i understand it, the 1-12" is ideal for 168 SMKs. my 700P prefers them as well and it's a 1-12.

That doesn't have anything to do with the twist per se.

165 Hornady Interlock!

Curious, how much worse will a 10 ROT shoot than 12, in 130-165? Or is it more on throating?

Secondly, on that comment that the 150 shoots "A lot flatter at 200 yds" - I thought most hunters zero POI/POA for 200? JS

Honestly, some of the texas hill country I hunt has a mean range of about 75 yards with a rare max of 150-200. Most of the time I sight in either right on, or 1-3" high at 100 depending on the caliber.

I honestly don't think there is a .308 that won't shoot the 168 matchkings or Federal Gold Medal Match loaded with them. I had a 700LTR that loved them, as do both my kimbers.

But my understanding is that the 1-12" was designed to stabilize the 150 class bulllets and the 168-170 were getting close to the end of its ability to stabilize. None the less I have a few cases of 168gr. FGMM and they work, even in a buddies 1-14" tube... never tried them on game, but they go where you want them to...

The sierra 168 was designed for 300m shooting and if you go past 900 yards you routinely will see them key holing thru the target. Up to that distance they are pretty good. They have a very short bearing surface and just do not keep stable after 900. I have watched too many key hole thru the target. If you are going to 1000 plus with a 308, then the 183-185 or 200 hybrid bullets are much better in the 308

Is that a design issue, or is it due to them going subsonic? Don't most bullets lose stability when they pass through the transonic barrier???

I had a DBM SS 700 years ago NIB that I never fired, it was a 10 ROT whereas the HB models had a 12. I found that interesting.

FWIW, I've never "Over-Twisted" anything, run 8t 6BRs with 66-105 and shot 1/4 to 1/2" 200yd groups for 3 time and again.

MM - are you there? You shoot heavies, likely in the 10t, have you run any 130s thru the same bbls? Thanks.

This

I like 150 sierras for deer and pigs

And again...good combo right there. My gold standard.

I believe the 308 does its best work with a 180 gr bullet like the SST or BT

155 Scenar with 50.5 gr. of PP MR-2000 is what I use.

I like a 165 Nosler BT but I'm not shooting way out there!

You ask on a LR forum, so you'll get some of those answers but for short range shots, out to 200, you can use about any dang thing really.

I don't care so much for CC bullets due to damage to game mostly. in your situation I"d be really tempted to be running light barnes TTSX in the 130 range

OTOH I've never seen a failure to kill with the 168 smk and I never hesitate to use those. Would'nt blink twice if thats all I ever had to use.

I've never had a 12 twist 308, not sure why they would do that but then factories don't think like nuts do. LOL.

150

I wonder how the 130 Barnes would do??

There is no "best" bullet weight.

The .308 is a very flexible round, used in a number of settings. For LR shooting, high B.C. bullets make sense.

For WT hunting, 2-300 yds, I like 130 gr. Hornady. It will blow thru a WT chest with good exit/entrance wounds and bleeding, often DRT. The 130's can be pushed at 3K fps.

For bigger critters, heavier bullets make sense.

So, for a "best" bullet, one needs to specify the task at hand. The answer changes.

IMO.

DF

I'm thinking a 130 gr. TTSX over max Barnes load of TAC (accuracy load) at 3,246 fps would be a killer.

Haven't tried it.

DF

Have you ever needed to go in or out through a shoulder with that one? If so, how did it do?

We chest shoot deer to save meat.

I've never tried one thru the shoulders, although on a WT I wouldn't bet against an exit.

If I was a hard core shoulder buster, I'd probably go with 130 gr. TTSX's at 3,200+. My .257R, shooting 100 TTSX at 3,200 is a proven and impressive killer.

DF

Not a 130 hornady but I have put a few 130 ttsx's through deer shoulders at 3450fps via 300 WSM with exits every time. One was at 438 yds and the exit was a little bigger then a silver dollar, no meat loss. Once at 255 and the exit was pushing 1 1/2" with relatively little loss of meat. Last one was at maybe 75 yds on a wounded deer I was helping a guy track. Center punched the on side shoulder and out the far side. Exit was 3 1/2" and the both legs had a significant amount of meat loss

Yeah DF, I figured you weren't going deliberately for shoulders with that one at that speed. I was just wondering if it had happened. That said, your reports on the bullet indicate it is tougher in action than Hornady's description would have us believe.

For deer around here i've had good luck with my LTR with the Nosler 125gr BT and the Sierra 125gr PH with Varget and RL15. The Speer 150gr Hot-Cor also shoots very well.

For punching targets I like the Nosler 168gr CC and use Varget and RL15 with those as well.

I don't know about "Best", but 155 Scenars pushed by Varget are a pretty hard recipe to beat.

Yep!

Depends upon whether you're going for paper, steel, or bear!!

A 308 that wouldn't shoot??? Wow, now I've heard it all.

The answer to that question can be very subjective. I've always been partial to the 168gn of whatever flavor manufacturer blows your skirt up. For targets or shooting steel the matchkings shot great for me.. 168gn VLDs did as well, but finding the right seating depth was nerve raking. I no longer shoot a 308 win, but try those over the appropriate charge of varget and lite it up with some fed gold match primers. Should be good to go for paper or steel. 308 win to me has always been easy to find a load for.

I like the 150's for hunting and the 168gr for target and shooting long range.

For me it would be 150gn Partition in front of VARGET and leave it there.
John

I like 165's for everything. BT or Accubond are my favorites, but also Like Sierras & Hornandy.
For deer hunting sometimes have a mixture of the above in my pocket & often load in the dark so not even sure what is loaded up. Same impact to 200 yards and all perform about the same. Deer, elk, whatever. Varget and Lapua brass is all I use now.

Lefty C

Design issue. The Sierra 168 SMKs were made for 300 meter matches and have a very short bearing surface. Other 165-168 bullets do not have that issue.

So I'm new to the "long range" 308win world. Is there some 165-168 bullets that hits the 1000 yard line without issue like the SMK? I got some 175SMK to avoid the issues, but I'm also shooting a 10LE (heavy barrel 20", 1-10 twist) so I know I may have a bit more of a challenge getting the velocity.

Try a 150 grain hornady soft point with BLC-2. Look at the books but i think 45 grains is the magic number. I had great groups out of my BDL with that load.

The 308 was origionally designed for 147 gr FMJ and blc-2. Fwiw

The Hornady factory loaded 168 AMAX match or TAP ammo with the 168 AMAX is amazingly accurate in every 308 I've tried it in.

If that doesn't shoot, it's you.

Here's something that's a bit different. Demonstrates the versatility of the .308. I've posted this before.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/10719100/1

DF

1:12 twist is pretty standard for a .308 Winchester. The 1:12 and 165/168 gr bullets is a very standard, very good combination.

I've run through several barrels in that twist and also in 1:13 twist. Have seen very good accuracy with bullets from 110 gr varmint bullets, to 190 gr Sierra Matchkings.

Best accuracy out to 600 yards was with the 155 and 168 grain HPBT match bullets from Nosler and Sierra.

I don't hunt a lot with my .308 Win rifle, but usually shoot the 165 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip when I do. It's quite accurate, and deadly on medium game.

Regards, Guy

Yep, a 1-12 twist provides more than enough stability to any 168 on the market. But apparently many Campfire members don't believe in using a computer twist program.

My Remington 1-10 with a 20" loves the 175gr SMK and 180 gr Balistic Tips over Varget. The 168s shoot almost as well, but it hates every 150-155gr bullet i have tried. I get 2600 with the 175gr SMK and it is supersonic to past 1000 at SL, and to about 1200 at Raton.

I think part of the problem with the lighter bullets is the overly long throat.

I use the 130gr Barnes TSX at 2950 from a 18.5" model 7. It is a good bullet and load for hunting. Out to about 300 it is flatter shooting than most heavy bullets. Beyond that the lower BC starts to take effect.

Based on my experiences in the woods, I'd feel equally comfortable with a 165gr cup/core or a 130gr TTSX. Both seem to yield rather impressive results on deer and hogs at reasonable ranges. Can't say I've ever seen a "failure" there with 150-168gr conventional softpoints, or their tipped versions, and that would be a lot of animals shot over the last 25 years. I have seen a lot of good exit holes, easy blood trails, and not-too-shot-up meat.

For further distances, the Scenar shoots well and offers good ballistics. I'd also not be afraid of the A-Max / ELD, but I'd not pick them for up close.

The Sierra 155 gr. Palma bullet through my .308 Winchester works pretty good for me. Here's ten shots I fired yesterday from 900 yards.

308 Win/Remington M700 factory barrel/action by Sharps Man, on Flickr

Mathman I just saw this query.

I always found the 130g Hornady SP pretty tough on shoulder shots on pigs. It seemed just as tough as heavier ones so I eventually ran it in a comparison test with the 150g Interlock and 168 Amax on wet newspaper.

As agricultural as my test methodology might have been, the little 130 held up very well in comparison.

I'll post the link to the test below for anyone interested.

Bob


https://forum.nosler.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=33673

Pretty bloody nice!

That's some shooting!

My thoughts too.

Always been partial to the 165/168gn flavor for a 308 win

My rem 700 likes a 155 nosler with 46.7 varget

I’ve heard this too

I love that bullet the 165 SST is a great hunting bullet to

That's a crazy impressive 10 shot group from any cartridge/rifle at 900 yards. Somebody was telling the wind "peace, be still" on that one (or ten). Wow.....

I settled on the 150 Interlock loaded over CFE223, at 2900+ fps. Smucks deer well. My RA shoots this load into 1/2 moa, on the days that my eyes allow me to do it.

Old post, but I had really good luck with the Berger 185gr Classic Hunter launched at 2640 fps. Grouped stupid good and was very effective on pigs out to 465 yards, which is as far as I shot at any.

John

My Rem 700 likes 150gn Nosler Accubonds & 47gns Varget.

My 26" 1:12 long-throat Remington shoots 168 SMKs into decent groups at 800 yards. Gets reliably to 1,000 yards even on cold days down here near sea level with the 175 SMKs. Just from the cases of ammo I remember buying I've put 3K rounds of 175 SMK through that rifle, nearly all of it shooting from 600 to 1,000 cards, and all of it being fairly slow factory GMM ammo.

You can use the 175 SMK and the FGMM brass to mimic the Mk 316 Mod 0 cartridge. Add 41.7-41.8 grains of IMR 4064 lit by a Federal 210M and watch the little groups appear.

John, would you share your load data with the 185’s ……

I also “dupe” that MK316 load. Fed brass, Fed 210 or GM210M, 175 MK’s. I just rounded up to 42 IMR4064. The current Federal GM ammo , GM308M2, 175 MK’s,does about 20’ per second more than my hand loads. Not sure what powder they are using ,,,some kind of “blend” I’m guessing.

Very warm load and might atomize someone else’s rifle so work up to it. Scroll down a couple of post to see which seating depth turned out best. My OAL listed includes the Sinclair Hex Nut bullet comparator so subtract 1” from the shown OAL for true base-to-ogive measurement.

Good .308 Loads

John

Hard to beat a Lapua 155 Scenar over any decent mid range (TAC, Varget, CFE223) powder.

I use 150 and 165 grain bullets. For deer or pronghorn I like150 grain Interlock bullets. Lighter TTSX shoot very accurately, I have not tried them on game though. For elk I’d go heavier - up to 180 grain with cup and core, 150 or more with mono or partitions.

Regarding the 155 Scenars for game, are you guys using the open or closed tip, or does it matter?
Thanks in advance.

I’ve had sub moa with SST out of my 270 and 06. They are also Some of the cheapest bullets out there.
Sierra tipped Game kings have also been good to me

Yes sir, my only difference is mine all roll at 42.2 but I have not found a .308 that did not shoot tight groups with this combo!

What speed does that load generally run?

Anything up to 180 should be OK. I've had several Husqvarna 1640s in 30-06 with 21" barrels. They were 1:12 and they all shot very well with 180-grain factory 30-06 loads, which have about the same velocity as 308 factory loads in those rifles.


Okie John

24" Barrel average is around 2550. Accuracy is crazy and was what I ran in PRS when playing.

Thank you. Looking for a good load for the AR that I can load a pile of.

Traditionally twisted 308 165/168

Every box of 155 Scenars I have says OTM (open tipped match) on the box.

Does it matter for what?

Found 46.0gr of TAC driving a 150gr Partition Gold an accurate and lethal combination for my Tikka SL.
GEORGE

150’s for me.

There's not too many 30 caliber rifles I've shot or owned (including the 308 700 Varmint Special) that didn't respond well to the easy button known as the 175 Sierra SMK. An AR-10 with a White Oak clustered 20 around an inch. The very first time the gun was fired. No brass prep, no runout measured, nothing but a pretty basic load. But it has a lot to do with that particular bullet.
That bullet with about any reasonable powder (Varget, 15, 3031, 4064, 4320) seated to 2.800 runs with boring easy, good groups in every 308 I've used it in. 30/06, 300 Mags too.

Its long so runout is low, its tangent so it isn't as finicky about seating depth or throat geometry, most standard dies seat it straight and Sierra doesn't screw with its design every two years....

I’ve shot 150 hornady flat bases for almost everything. When I took it to Africa I used 168TSX. H4895 in both loads. A few years ago I tried 130TTSX I think with TAC and can’t see anything I’d hunt with a 308 that that bullet wouldn’t work for.

Both of my 308’s love 165 gr Game Kings and 39.5 gr IMR 3031. (A very popular load). I got a .165” group last time I shot one of them. Insane good for a hunting bullet.

130 to 168

I haven't found a bullet that didn't shoot well in one of my 308 rifles.
They are twisted 1-12 to 1-10 X 5

I don't know the answer just my observations. Sample of one guy. I have a Remington 700 in 308 1/10 twist. It will not shoot 150s over about 2600 fps without loosing accuracy. , but dotes on 165 and 180s at normal velocity. I asked a friend of mine who was a military sharpshooter about it and he said that some 308s do not like the 1/10 twist. and they had even tried 1/14 twists in the 308mwith 150s. I said that my 3006 used 1/10 twists and were exceedingly accurate with 150s at 2900 plus. There was no explanation just that's what they had found. I have another 308 (Winchester 70) with 1/12 twist and it handles the 150s quite normally. So I guess its just the kinks of individual guns. Good luck with whatever you decide.

For hunting 150's seem to be the best all-around whitetail bullet for me and 165's work best in the M1A's.

I have a Remington .308 that gave poor accuracy with most 150's and low velocity. I've just set the barrel back one thread (0.0625") and had the chamber re-reamed with a throatless reamer. It shoots the 150's much better now as there isn't the massive jump to the lands.

For what game? For Whitetail I shoot 150 grain Interlocks. If I were going after elk, I might pick 180 grain partitions or something in between.

I just got 308. But Haven’t shot it yet, waiting for
Weather to cool down. I’m going to be using Sierra 168 tipped match kings.
150, 30 cal bullets look too short and stubby to me.

If anyone has load using 168s with big game.
Please shoot me a PM or share

tag
Hank

In my Rem 700 .308 the 150gn Nosler Accubond & Varget is all I use for hunting.

I've had great success with 165 gr sst's and the deer not running more than 25 yards with great shot placement

150 gr. Interlocks is all I've ever killed anything with in both my .308 rifles. I've used them in my .30-06 but, I honestly think I need a heavier bullet in .30-06.

I’ve had good luck with 150’s on white tails. Had an uncle and all he ever ran was 180’s in his .308, and he used to hunt CO along with AR, and WI quite often.

That being said, I’ve got some 150 gr Hornady Interlock being pushed with Varget I wouldn’t hesitate to shoot a moose with.

just gotta get the right 150 gr bullet, the 153 gr Afterburner from Apex Outdoors is the highest bc 150 class weight bullet for 1:10 twist barrels in 30 caliber & it's designed to open up down to 1650 fps

don't have any loaded for my 308 Win yet but pic shows the 300 WSM on the right, next to one of my 'cats & currently hunting moose with the 153 gr Afterburner in my 300 RUM


153 gr 30 cal Afterburner

....

You always have interesting wildcats that you’re working on and your pictures are magazine quality. 👍

Whaddayawant?


Tried Sierria 165BTHP Game Kings on
a half dozen deer or so.
By far the "Most deadly" thing I ever shot deer with.
Not a one went more than a few feet, most just dropped.
Huge holes, several had a cloud of hair and mist fly out the offside.



Have seen posts of guys using this bullet out of 300Mags for elk.
And they claim great performance, wasn't there, won't disagree.
Maybe I got a "soft" box, no idea. Quit on them though, the meat
damage was more than tolerable





PS. This with rib/shoulder shots. I don't bother with talking about nervous system shots, its a waste of time. Doesn't prove anything, a 22 in the brain is a light switch.

"Best". IMO, depends on what the gun likes and critters being hunted.

With our Southern WT's, a 130 Hornady (not the Varmint version) will blow thru the chest with lots of destruction and quick kills.

And, at 3K fps, what's not to like. And it seems that my guns and my bud's guns shoot this bullet very accurately over 59 gr. BG.

Now, with heavier game, I'd go with heavier bullets.

So, far, the 130 Horn groups better than the 125 NAB or NBT, although both of those should perform well on game.

DF

150 to 180 grain

Don't know about the 308 but my 300 Savage loves 150 grain. Pretty sure the 308 would too

In the 300 Savage and 308 I would not load over 165gr FB bullets. Anything else might have to go too deep into the case or out too far.

I load for both.

Lawdy Lawdy!

As a young man in Alaska I purchased a 742 Remington in 308. I also bought some 150 grain soft point shells for it. No one told me or the moose that those cartridges and that rifle wouldn’t kill the 4 moose with one shot each I killed. After that it was killing deer in ND . What ya don’t know won’t hurt ya. Edk

I shoot 165 grain Accubonds in mine for pretty much everything but when I was working up loads I came up with a good one for 180s and messed with 190s a little with no indication it wasn't twisted fast enough. My rifle has a 1-12" twist.

Tom

"Best" is usually subjective. My Family and I have killed lots of Deer with 150 grain bullets. The Wife and I use 150 Sierras and the boys when younger used 150 RP, Winchester, Speer, Hornady, ect. Mostly because they tended to loose them from hunt to hunt. With Hogs, its a mute point. We hunt them off of stands like Deer and I usually wait for a head shot from the side.

I just built another 308 with a 20" Varmint weight barrel and a 1-10 twist. My favorite load of 150 Sierras and 4064 shot well but not as well as I wanted so I have some 168 Berger VLD Hunters loaded but have not tried them yet.

The problem with a 308 is choosing the "best" load. They usually shoot so many things well.

These "Best" threads grate on my nerves.

It implies sampling every possible bullet, under every condition, using
every possible gun, then proclaiming a single one as clearly superior.

Mule Deer, through his profession and passion, along with an anal record keeping thing trait, has extensive experience and data.

Yet when he enters one of these threads, he often will mention multiple
weights, brands, and mono and cup/core. Their will be mention
of expansion, penetration, and integrity. Not sure if he ever uses
the word best, even to assign it to a particular trait.
More, better....but not best. Even when he mentions that he or Eileen
have settled on a specific bullet in a cartridge, it's still not labeled best.


A pet peeve?
No.
It's about accuracy and intellectual honesty.

Here's an interesting one, CEB 135 Raptor.

I also like Hammer bullets.

DF

Surprisingly enough, I was able to get the Barnes 130TTSX to shoot under .5moa at 400yds repeatedly. So it's the "best" bullet in my rifle for 400yds and less. For over 400yds I'd pick a different caliber.

Is the application varmints? If so, try Speers 130grn HP. Shot great, blew the snot outa chucks and crows.