7mm Remington Magnum, 180 ELD-M, 1683 Yards - 02/05/18
You missed 
That's a pretty good poke.....
Tip melted.
Nice shooting.
The lying lazy bushelor does that with a 22!!!!!
PS, nice shootin Tex
PS, nice shootin Tex
Good shooting Rc!
Originally Posted by elkhunternm
Good shooting Rc!
Thanks! Just really trying to confirm some data out past 1000
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
You missed
A LOT. BTW, the .401 BC works perfectly out to 1000. From there out I had to play with the BC and Velocity inputs in Ballistic AE to get the output to match actual dialing
Originally Posted by rcamuglia
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
You missed
A LOT. BTW, the .401 BC works perfectly out to 1000. From there out I had to play with the BC and Velocity inputs in Ballistic AE to get the output to match actual dialing
That tends to happen in switchy winds at a mile. Any up/down drafts to deal with? Coriolis enabled?
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Originally Posted by rcamuglia
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
You missed
A LOT. BTW, the .401 BC works perfectly out to 1000. From there out I had to play with the BC and Velocity inputs in Ballistic AE to get the output to match actual dialing
That tends to happen in switchy winds at a mile. Any up/down drafts to deal with? Coriolis enabled?
Nothing up or down that I could see. Good Catch! Coriolis is always enabled, but I didn't look at it or put in the azimuth of fire. I just did and it made no difference in drop? It should as I was shooting West to East and would explain the fact that I had to dial more than the original output...
Jordan, I'm actually a bit confused by this. Everything I've read says shooting West to East would involve less drop. Doesn't seem intuitive to me since, with the rotation of the Earth, the target would be getting FARTHER away. Can you help me noodle through this?
"Despite being associated with Coriolis, the phenomenon that actually affects the vertical component of the trajectory is called Eötvös Effect. The rotation of the Earth generates a centrifugal force, the same that pushes you to the side when you make a sharp turn with your car. This force acts perpendicular to the Earth rotatory axis, adding or subtracting to the gravity force. When an object flies eastward, in the same direction of Earth’s rotation, centrifugal force acts opposite of gravity, pushing it away from the Earth’s surface. If the object flies westward, in the opposite direction of the Earth rotation, centrifugal force pushes the object toward the ground concurrently to gravity force. Thus, bullets fired to the east always fly a little higher, and, conversely, bullets fired to the west always travel somewhat low."
Seems opposite of what I'd think
Seems opposite of what I'd think
It only applies if you're shooting across state lines.
Rick,
Rather than thinking about the target travelling further away with the rotation of the earth, think of the target rising or dropping with the earth. The earth rotates from west to east, so if you were shooting towards the east, the target would rotate and drop down a little bit while the bullet is in flight, and the bullet would then strike higher on the target. So you need to dial a little less elevation to bring POI down to POA.
If shooting to the west, the target would rise while the bullet was in flight, and the bullet would strike low on the target. You would be required to dial a little bit extra elevation to bring POI up to POA.
Found this demonstration vid:
Rather than thinking about the target travelling further away with the rotation of the earth, think of the target rising or dropping with the earth. The earth rotates from west to east, so if you were shooting towards the east, the target would rotate and drop down a little bit while the bullet is in flight, and the bullet would then strike higher on the target. So you need to dial a little less elevation to bring POI down to POA.
If shooting to the west, the target would rise while the bullet was in flight, and the bullet would strike low on the target. You would be required to dial a little bit extra elevation to bring POI up to POA.
Found this demonstration vid:
I like my 140’s
Originally Posted by hanco
I like my 140’s
Congrats.
Nice shooting, Rick!
Jordan, thanks for the vid.
I am in over my head every time I try stretch my rifles out much past 650. Have tried it at various temps and altitudes, in hunting scenarios across canyons and such, and haven't gotten a handle on what happens. I salute you guys who've figured it out, and are putting rounds where you want them way out there.
Originally Posted by HuntnShoot
I am in over my head every time I try stretch my rifles out much past 650. Have tried it at various temps and altitudes, in hunting scenarios across canyons and such, and haven't gotten a handle on what happens. I salute you guys who've figured it out, and are putting rounds where you want them way out there.
In terms of clanking steel, I felt the same way but once I started pushing my comfort level and going through primers, the learning curve was surprisingly steep and quick. I'm still all to familiar with misses but feel I can get on the plate in short order with the tools we have these days...not to mention some of the people here who have refined the skill and divulged their experiences.
I think it was Tubb that said that once you got to magnum speeds in the 7mm that strange things happened at times at longer distances.
Nice shooting!
Only time I've done that, was a bit furhter but with a 50. Amazing how you can think you have it all swag'd out and you miss by quite a bit, but given a spotter you can often do well for a few more shots, but then looks totally the same and you miss again.... best outing was 3 shots around 8 inches at a bit of 1800 ish yards... pretty much a fluke IMHO but i"ll take it. I decided that I could hit or scare the heck out of a 55 gallon drum there most of the time anyway. TOF was about 5 seconds IIRC...
Nice shooting!
Only time I've done that, was a bit furhter but with a 50. Amazing how you can think you have it all swag'd out and you miss by quite a bit, but given a spotter you can often do well for a few more shots, but then looks totally the same and you miss again.... best outing was 3 shots around 8 inches at a bit of 1800 ish yards... pretty much a fluke IMHO but i"ll take it. I decided that I could hit or scare the heck out of a 55 gallon drum there most of the time anyway. TOF was about 5 seconds IIRC...
I saw that video and thought I understood what was happening. This site says the reason is centrifugal force caused by the direction the Earth is rotating
https://loadoutroom.com/thearmsguide/external-ballistics-the-coriolis-effect-6-theory-section/
https:/
That author talks about centrifugal force, which is sometimes referred to as an inertial force or a fictitious force. This is because it’s really just a result of measuring motion from a non-inertial reference frame. What that really means is that it’s not necessarily a force at all, but a change in motion of one object with respect to another due to the reference frame accelerating.
Take the car example- the author describes you driving a car around a corner, and you feeling a force throwing you outward. There is no force that does this. What is really happening is that your body had momentum going straight. If the car were to suddenly vaporize or disappear, your body would keep going straight until it hit the ground and started tumbling. So your body wants to keep going in a straight line because it has forward momentum. When the car turns, it’s “forcing” (see what I did there) your body to change direction, which changes its momentum. What you feel is the centripetal force coming from the car pushing your body toward the center of the radius of the turn.
The earth is similar, in that it changes its direction, but because the bullet is not connected to the earth, like your body is connected to the car, the bullet does not move with the earth, so when the earth drops down a bit, and the target with it, the bullet does not follow the same motion, and continues on its original trajectory, causing the target to drop out from under it. You could discuss the effects of this motion in an inertial reference frame, and use forces like gravity to do so, but I find the inertial description much simpler and easier to understand. When the bullet is in flight, the earth/target drop out from under it, or they rise into the bullet, depending on which direction you’re shooting.
Take the car example- the author describes you driving a car around a corner, and you feeling a force throwing you outward. There is no force that does this. What is really happening is that your body had momentum going straight. If the car were to suddenly vaporize or disappear, your body would keep going straight until it hit the ground and started tumbling. So your body wants to keep going in a straight line because it has forward momentum. When the car turns, it’s “forcing” (see what I did there) your body to change direction, which changes its momentum. What you feel is the centripetal force coming from the car pushing your body toward the center of the radius of the turn.
The earth is similar, in that it changes its direction, but because the bullet is not connected to the earth, like your body is connected to the car, the bullet does not move with the earth, so when the earth drops down a bit, and the target with it, the bullet does not follow the same motion, and continues on its original trajectory, causing the target to drop out from under it. You could discuss the effects of this motion in an inertial reference frame, and use forces like gravity to do so, but I find the inertial description much simpler and easier to understand. When the bullet is in flight, the earth/target drop out from under it, or they rise into the bullet, depending on which direction you’re shooting.
Well explained Jordan. Thank you.
Very interesting..!!!
Another plus one and thanks to Jordan. And to RC for posting.
Good explanation Jordan. I wonder what the Flat Earthers would say?
😂😂😂😂
😂😂😂😂
You're on here spouting knowledge non stop....acting like King Schittt......and you don't take an azimuth of fire when shooting over a mile and didn't "look" at Coriolis? WOW!
Thanks jj. Actually 1683 yards is less than a mile.
....and there's no need for formalities; you can just call me "King"
I'll call you "Einstein"
LOL
....and there's no need for formalities; you can just call me "King"
I'll call you "Einstein"
LOL
ahem ... yall are assuming that the earth is a sphere
Originally Posted by n8dawg6
ahem ... yall are assuming that the earth is a sphere
No, we're just assuming that it spins on an axis
Interesting,
Sight in and gather data north to south....lets say you do this and your dope is right. If you are using a ballistic calculator (in my case a Kestrel with AB) will the "coriolis" feature auto-correct the data when shooting east and west?
Sight in and gather data north to south....lets say you do this and your dope is right. If you are using a ballistic calculator (in my case a Kestrel with AB) will the "coriolis" feature auto-correct the data when shooting east and west?
Yes, it should. When you zero your rifle at 100 yards, the effects due to the earth's rotation are so small that they're negligible.
Originally Posted by Ghostwalker
Interesting,
Sight in and gather data north to south....lets say you do this and your dope is right. If you are using a ballistic calculator (in my case a Kestrel with AB) will the "coriolis" feature auto-correct the data when shooting east and west?
Sight in and gather data north to south....lets say you do this and your dope is right. If you are using a ballistic calculator (in my case a Kestrel with AB) will the "coriolis" feature auto-correct the data when shooting east and west?
It does. In Ballistic AE when you set up the profile for your confirmed drops make sure you put in the azimuth of fire when developing. When you load the profile in the HUD for use (and probably shooting in a different direction) put in the azimuth of fire. It automatically changes output data to correct for Coriolis
I'm going to have to test this a little and see what I learn.
What was the load for this? I'm curious about which powder is producing what velocity in a 7RM with 180's.
Does earth rotation have a noticeable effect shooting north/south.
When I have seen it mentioned, I always thought north/south, the target mooving laterally while the bullet was in flight.
I never made the east/west connection.
Learned something new already this am.
When I have seen it mentioned, I always thought north/south, the target mooving laterally while the bullet was in flight.
I never made the east/west connection.
Learned something new already this am.
Originally Posted by seven_miller
What was the load for this? I'm curious about which powder is producing what velocity in a 7RM with 180's.
67 grains H-1000/Fed215/Nosler Case/180 ELD-M/2900fps
Factory Barrel
Originally Posted by Dillonbuck
Does earth rotation have a noticeable effect shooting north/south.
When I have seen it mentioned, I always thought north/south, the target mooving laterally while the bullet was in flight.
I never made the east/west connection.
Learned something new already this am.
When I have seen it mentioned, I always thought north/south, the target mooving laterally while the bullet was in flight.
I never made the east/west connection.
Learned something new already this am.
When shooting North or South, impacts will be left or right of the POA but I think wind and spin drift have more effect
Factory barrel, eh? Damn nice. What elevation are you at?
You need to switch to left hand rifling..
http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/Articles/ABDOC108_GyroscopicAndCoriolis.pdf
http:/
Originally Posted by seven_miller
Factory barrel, eh? Damn nice. What elevation are you at?
1 mile
When shooting north or south in the northern hemisphere, your shot will always land to the right, due to the Coriolis effect.
Bizarre.
Jordan covered it but a good read nonetheless...
http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/Articles/ABDOC108_GyroscopicAndCoriolis.pdf
http:/
When shooting north, isn't the target moving right and POI will be left of POA? Either N or S hemisphere, same/same. (ignoring spin drift)
Another way of saying it is, when shooting North or South POI will be WEST of POA, either N or S hemisphere (again ignoring spindrift which is a greater effect)
Another way of saying it is, when shooting North or South POI will be WEST of POA, either N or S hemisphere (again ignoring spindrift which is a greater effect)
No. Think of it this way- a man standing near the North pole does a complete rotation in 24 hours, and a man on the equator does a full rotation in 24 hours. Who is moving at a higher speed? The man at the equator must be moving at a much higher speed in order to travel much further in 24 hours than the man at the north pole.
Okay, so if we’re standing on the equator, and shooting a target near the North pole (new world record?), The bullet starts out going eastward faster than the target is. So in the time it takes the bullet to arrive, it travels east more than the target does, and hits right of POA.
On the other hand, if we’re standing near the North pole and shoot at a target at the equator, the target is moving east faster than the bullet, so while the bullet is in flight the target is moving to the “left” faster than the bullet is, and the bullet hits right of POA.
When shooting south, the target outruns the bullet to the left, and when shooting north, the bullet outruns the target to the right.
The opposite is true in the southern hemisphere.
Okay, so if we’re standing on the equator, and shooting a target near the North pole (new world record?), The bullet starts out going eastward faster than the target is. So in the time it takes the bullet to arrive, it travels east more than the target does, and hits right of POA.
On the other hand, if we’re standing near the North pole and shoot at a target at the equator, the target is moving east faster than the bullet, so while the bullet is in flight the target is moving to the “left” faster than the bullet is, and the bullet hits right of POA.
When shooting south, the target outruns the bullet to the left, and when shooting north, the bullet outruns the target to the right.
The opposite is true in the southern hemisphere.
^^^^^^
Good explanation!
Good explanation!
I read the Litz thing above and I am not on the equator nor pole nor shooting quite that far..... Consider the following.
So, dude standing at 45 degrees N. Fires due north 1 mile. Ignore spin drift. Surely the target is moving to the east, just like it was when firing east? Hit is to the west, left of POA. Dude turns around and fires due South, target moves east, hit is west, right of POA.
So, downunder Dude standing at 45 degrees South. Fires due North 1 mile (not toward the south pole, lol). Ignore spin drift. Surely that target is moving to the east, just like it was when firing east? Hit is again west, left of POA. He does a 180, fires due south, target moves east as it always does, hit is west, right of POA.
In the N hemisphere, couple spindrift with shooting north or south, since its a larger effect than Coriolis, yes hit is alway right....
In the S hemisphere, same diff, hits are right.
So, how fugged is this line of thought?
So, dude standing at 45 degrees N. Fires due north 1 mile. Ignore spin drift. Surely the target is moving to the east, just like it was when firing east? Hit is to the west, left of POA. Dude turns around and fires due South, target moves east, hit is west, right of POA.
So, downunder Dude standing at 45 degrees South. Fires due North 1 mile (not toward the south pole, lol). Ignore spin drift. Surely that target is moving to the east, just like it was when firing east? Hit is again west, left of POA. He does a 180, fires due south, target moves east as it always does, hit is west, right of POA.
In the N hemisphere, couple spindrift with shooting north or south, since its a larger effect than Coriolis, yes hit is alway right....
In the S hemisphere, same diff, hits are right.
So, how fugged is this line of thought?
Ignore spin drift.
The guy shooting to the north has a bullet that is moving to the east faster than the target is, so his bullet hits to the right of POA.
The guy in the southern hemisphere does hit left of POA in every case. If you add in spin drift to the right, that will negate the effect of Coriolis at some distance, which pushes the bullet to the left regardless of which direction you're pointing (except for due east or west).
Read my previous post again. It explains Coriolis without taking spin drift into account.
The guy shooting to the north has a bullet that is moving to the east faster than the target is, so his bullet hits to the right of POA.
The guy in the southern hemisphere does hit left of POA in every case. If you add in spin drift to the right, that will negate the effect of Coriolis at some distance, which pushes the bullet to the left regardless of which direction you're pointing (except for due east or west).
Read my previous post again. It explains Coriolis without taking spin drift into account.
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
The guy shooting to the north has a bullet that is moving to the east faster than the target is...
So, that's what I was tripping on....
Thought we established the bullet is going "straight" (as it is not in contact with the Earth) whereas the target moves with the Earth.... But we did not, though that 'xplains why Coriolis is not centrifugal....
I broke down and watched the corny storm vid and grasp the concept of conservation of initial "lateral" motion.
Thanks for the continued help Jordan, 32 20fan and anyone else with a clue, including the King, LOL.
Some really interesting info in this thread. Thanks for sharing!
Pasta Mann,
We've exchanged on 264 WM password RL33. I have a Sense to and just couldn't get 140he to work with 1:9 barrel. Finally switched to 130gr ELD and found a great load, 72.0gr RL33, producing 0.25 MOA at 100yd., 1 MOA @ 650yds.
I'm teaming and turning necks and bushing size to dust I/D to ream then clean up turn and bushing size. Total removal 0.0008" I/ D, 0.0008-0.0010" O/ D to remove brass creep each firing. Wondering if you've ever tried this as neck tension is super excited uniform.
You seem to have worked your 264 quite a bit, wondered how you prep your brass.
Mile
We've exchanged on 264 WM password RL33. I have a Sense to and just couldn't get 140he to work with 1:9 barrel. Finally switched to 130gr ELD and found a great load, 72.0gr RL33, producing 0.25 MOA at 100yd., 1 MOA @ 650yds.
I'm teaming and turning necks and bushing size to dust I/D to ream then clean up turn and bushing size. Total removal 0.0008" I/ D, 0.0008-0.0010" O/ D to remove brass creep each firing. Wondering if you've ever tried this as neck tension is super excited uniform.
You seem to have worked your 264 quite a bit, wondered how you prep your brass.
Mile
Pasta Mann,
We've exchanged on 264 WM password RL33. I have a Sense to and just couldn't get 140he to work with 1:9 barrel. Finally switched to 130gr ELD and found a great load, 72.0gr RL33, producing 0.25 MOA at 100yd., 1 MOA @ 650yds.
I'm teaming and turning necks and bushing size to dust I/D to ream then clean up turn and bushing size. Total removal 0.0008" I/ D, 0.0008-0.0010" O/ D to remove brass creep each firing. Wondering if you've ever tried this as neck tension is super excited uniform.
You seem to have worked your 264 quite a bit, wondered how you prep your brass.
Mile
We've exchanged on 264 WM password RL33. I have a Sense to and just couldn't get 140he to work with 1:9 barrel. Finally switched to 130gr ELD and found a great load, 72.0gr RL33, producing 0.25 MOA at 100yd., 1 MOA @ 650yds.
I'm teaming and turning necks and bushing size to dust I/D to ream then clean up turn and bushing size. Total removal 0.0008" I/ D, 0.0008-0.0010" O/ D to remove brass creep each firing. Wondering if you've ever tried this as neck tension is super excited uniform.
You seem to have worked your 264 quite a bit, wondered how you prep your brass.
Mile
Darned spell checker. Remington Sendero, reaming & turning....
Mike
Mike
Good thread
Originally Posted by smokepole
It only applies if you're shooting across state lines.
Tag
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Ignore spin drift.
The guy shooting to the north has a bullet that is moving to the east faster than the target is, so his bullet hits to the right of POA.
The guy in the southern hemisphere does hit left of POA in every case. If you add in spin drift to the right, that will negate the effect of Coriolis at some distance, which pushes the bullet to the left regardless of which direction you're pointing (except for due east or west).
Read my previous post again. It explains Coriolis without taking spin drift into account.
The guy shooting to the north has a bullet that is moving to the east faster than the target is, so his bullet hits to the right of POA.
The guy in the southern hemisphere does hit left of POA in every case. If you add in spin drift to the right, that will negate the effect of Coriolis at some distance, which pushes the bullet to the left regardless of which direction you're pointing (except for due east or west).
Read my previous post again. It explains Coriolis without taking spin drift into account.
Just saw that this thread was bumped.
I should clarify something that I said 2 years ago: Coriolis causes the bullet to strike to the right in the northern hemisphere and to the left in the southern hemisphere, regardless of which direction you're shooting. The only place where there is no lateral drift caused by the CE is if you are standing on the equator shooting due E or W, in which case there is only a vertical shift in POI (due to the Eotvos effect).
The max CE for a 308 winn at 1000 M is 1/4" not enough to matter
jwp,
No, the windage deflection due to the CE depends on your latitude, and can be 5-8" at 1000 m for .308 Win factory loads.
No, the windage deflection due to the CE depends on your latitude, and can be 5-8" at 1000 m for .308 Win factory loads.
I just saw this thread. Interesting read...
I wish Rick was still around....
Thankfully, Jordan hasn’t left...
😎
I wish Rick was still around....
Thankfully, Jordan hasn’t left...
😎