In your opinion, what makes a gun custom?

A complete from scratch build?

A re-barrel?

A cushy recoil pad?

Any change from factory, or a combo of changes?

Just throwing this out there.

I had a Custom Rifle built from Accuflite Arms in Pittsburgh, PA, a few yrs. ago.
That Rifle is a Tac Driver! 1/2 MOA!
Sako 85 Action, .300 Win. Mag. Stainless steel, Ceracote, Reverse Tapered Barrel, for Harmonic Balancing,
Detachable Mag. (Ceracote Stainless Steel Mags.)
Action 3 Lug Design, W/Action Recoil Lug (bottom of Action) Stainless Steel Floor plate.
Barrel; Lothar Walther Stainless Steel,(Accuflite Specs)
Composite Kevlar Stock, W/Palm Swell,(Custom Fit to my Palm)
Stainless Steel Pillar Bedded Stock! Stock Swivels for Sling/Tripod!
Pachmayr Decelerator Pad.
Sako Set Trigger
Topped with a Swarovski Scope! (Don't ever go Cheap on the Glass) !

This is Just What Myself and my Brother in law had done and are really Happy with!
There are several Choices out there, and the .300 Win Mag. for us is very versatile for Us!
These Rifles that we had built are second to none in OUR Opinion, and can and,
Have been used in all Sorts of Weather Conditions!

Different Strokes For Different Folks!

For me its following.

1. Gunsmith!!!
2. Custom action
3. Barrel
4. Stock
5. Trigger
6. Glass bedding, free float, fitting, ect.
7. Built to your specs

Interesting post.


I'd call my m700 a custom. Even the factory action itself got a face lift. Plus a new barrel, stock, trigger. With remage setups, you can cut out the gun smith for a lot of stuff now even on factory actions. I do a lot of my own work. That particular gun was a Browns Precision Pound'r I snagged cheap. I used aftermarket BDL bottom metal. Did my own inletting and bedding. Fill the barrel channel a bit to clean up the profile. Painted it.


Just swapping a part or 2 IMO doesn't make it a custom.

But to me, factory actions can be used to build customs.


Where the line is? I don't know. Lol. If it's not a full custom call it a semi custom. Or just call it what you want. Not something to get too wound up about. At the end of the day it is what it is.

New aftermarket barrel and stock.

see through mounts, a slip on recoil pad and a big ol’ muzzle brake.

In my eyes.

Semi custom- factory action, stock upgrade, barrel upgrade, smith work.

Full custom- custom action, stock upgrade, barrel upgrade, smith work.

HunterShooter58- I have a 22PPC built on a Sako A1 that was built by accuflite. It is the most accurate rifle I own. Groups average in the .4s and turns out .2s often enough that it's not a shock anymore.

I consider a custom gun as one put together for you from acquired parts and pieces.

I like your list and could add one or two lines to it as well but I wonder why a custom action is needed. I had a faux 275 Rigby built by a guild builder here in Canada a couple years ago from the ground up but used a commercial FN-98 action. The action was tuned up and had a 3 pos safety and hinged bottom added.

Does that action discount it from full custom status?

hey are called parts guns!!! You get the parts and let someone put it together and call it custom?

I'm pretty sure if you asked 100 guys on this site for their definition of a custom gun you would get 100 different answers...

Mine is pretty simple- A lot of rifles are made from Remington 700, Pre 64 Model 70, or Mauser actions of various birthing so a custom action isn't necessarily needed to become a "custom rifle" - it's what is done to it that makes it "custom"...

In my limited experience, a custom rifle is made to your wish list of specifications- whatever that may be. A cleaned up, trued action of whatever make you prefer, a new barrel with the profile you specify, custom wood or stock to suit your purposes, and metal work that fits the job- including sight options...
I think this list leaves a lot of room for customization to suit everyone's needs IMO. A custom benchrest rifle won't have the same work specified as a lightweight mountain rifle and adding a new stock to a rifle doesn't automatically make it a "custom rifle" IMO....

I've seen Jarret rifles that if you didn't know who he was you would assume the rifles were just some off the shelf rifle with a Cerakote treatment.... they often look pretty plain on the outside...

I agree with this^^^ I call my pre 64 model 70 with custom barrel and brown precision PoundR stock a "semi custom". It's glass bedded and has a matchgrade barrel that shoots lights out. The action was blueprinted, according to my smith. I've fine tuned things like the trigger and bedding to make it shoot well. The rifle is cerakoted midnight blue by a local guy I know that shoots for Lapua.. The bare rifle weighs 7 pounds.



That's about as "semi custom" as you can get...

Any gun that is redesigned from the factory spec to fit your wants and needs.

Define "redesigned"

Using your interpretation of custom...
Buying a manufactured home, painting it pink, installing a pulsating shower head and padded toilet seat would qualify as a custom home.

IMO there's a big difference between customizing and custom. When I worked at DakArms, we didn't believe that we were building custom rifles even though many rifles had several different boxes checked off on the order form varying greatly from the factory spec both in features and $$$.

There's so much more to a custom rifle than a list of options.

IMO Sponge painting a camo pattern on an aftermarket high quality stock for your Rem700 doesn't qualify as bragging rights with your buddies as owning a custom rifle. It does however, depending on the execution of the work, add to the value and functionality you place on the tool you trust to bring home the "bacon".

If a client would send me a barreled action to just have me hand carve a several thousand $$ stock for it, I wouldn't consider it a custom rifle regardless of the final bill. Calling it a custom stock, absolutely.

Does if matter what I consider a custom rifle? Not likely. Who needs bragging rights anyway. As long as you're happy with what you're hunting with, who cares what anyone else thinks.

Yeah, Jim Really does some nice work!
Were very Happy with him and his products!

My eyes see things a little different as I would consider this rifle I built a custom rifle. However it doesn't fit your criteria. Does it matter??? Not to me or my happy client.

Another rifle that doesn't make it into custom grade as it is a military action and not a custom action. Let's just call it sporterized.

Not sure I like the sound of "parts gun", but that is about how it did all go down.

The credit all goes to the gunmaker. If I had been left to my own devices without his guidance, it really would have been a parts gun.

1) It sure looks like that rifle you posted fits ALL of the criteria I listed above.
Stock, barrel, smith work, etc. Split hairs much?

2) I don't really care what you or your client care or don't care about. Or what your eyes see VS what my eyes see. Or why you care so much. Nice rifles but pick nits elsewhere.

CUSTOM- "something made to unique specifications, especially something one of a kind. …" thank you Meriam Webster dictionary.

"Full custom- custom action, custom stock upgrade, barrel upgrade, smith work.", it is still all parts, just more expensive ones.



So is a Rem action that is true, bolt lapped and after market trigger a custom action? Or do you need to have someone else make a clone of the same thing for it to be a custom action?

My point was you were splitting hairs with your list and the rifle i posted did not make it into the coveted full custom class as it has a factory receiver.

Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time.

That's funny as hell.

Not sure that adding a few extras makes anything custom. You're getting closer once you start replacing and reengineering stuff. Rebarrel and restock gets you most of the way there.

The rifles I use most are somewhere between parts guns and semi-custom.


Okie John

Only if you read it with a French accent.

My idea of a custom rifle.

Action is a Dumoulin Mauser, IIRC a Black Walnut stock I picked out from the gunsmith's inventory, 22" Shilen, Talley's and 6x Leupold.

The gunsmith did all the work except for the checkering.







JRGunmaker. what years did you work at Dakota Arms?

Very nice rifle

I think we are forgetting the intangibles here; all the thought and dreaming which is really the beginning of a rifle build project.

That is a big part of it. So is gathering up all of the experiences that lead you to think a factory rifle isn't good enough.


Okie John

Dec1, 92 to May5, 97

Any rifle dropped in an $800+ fiberglass stock = custom.

I've never understood someone building a "custom" that can be bought at Walmart. I've never built a gun that I could just buy. Usually it's because I want a different barrel contour, twist rate, or cartridge than what factories kick out.

So, it is a good chance you worked on this one then.

Dakota M 76 7mm Dakota. I ordered it in Oct-Nov 1994 and received it Feb 1995.

That's a beautiful rifle right there..

I let the other guys think and dream big on their custom jobs and then when they take it in the azz when they sell it, I come in and swoop them up for pennies on the dollar....

It's not that a factory rifle is inadequate but rather that some of us want to and enjoy making.up a rifle.

Maybe a difference in wording could be a Custom rifle, or a Customized rifle?

One being a complete non-production type rifle and one being an altered production type rifle?

at the gun shows a Mauser 98 in 8MM with a turned down bolt handle, a Ramline stock and Tasco 3-9 scope are frequently priced $800+......and they are usually on the same table for the next year or so....

I install new parts:
Barrel
bolt
stock
trigger
safety
pillars
recoil lug
recoil pad
sling studs
glass bedding
scope, bases, and rings


...............but keep the old receiver..... after drilling and tapping holes in it, and opening up the feed lips.

I've got a lot of rifles which would be considered "custom", I guess. I don't have any purely factory rifles but some are more modified than others. All of the target rifles, save one, are custom. In the end, I don't think it really matters.
I have the rifles I have because I like fooling around with rifles. Many times, the building is more enjoyable than the use. One rifle, I built for a specific match. It is a 40X receiver but I made the bolt, I made the sleeve, I made the stock, I fitted the barrel; so that's pretty custom. I built it in hopes of winning the match and that it did so, was just icing on the cake. The match lasted two days but building the rifle for it added another month to the experience.
One of my hunting rifles is a tang safety Ruger 77 in 7x57. I bought it to use. The stock on this particular vintage of 77 is a little on the fat side so I reshaped it to make it more like the earlier models. I slimmed it down and re-checkered it to match the factory pattern. I replaced the pad with a decellerator. So, it was now custom-ish. It shot well but the factory barrel was just a little homely inside and I couldn't stand it so I rebarreled it with a stainless Benchmark. Since the chamber was cut with a reamer made to my specs, it was now even more custom. The factory stock was now attractive and the rifle balanced well but, it seemed like, every time I picked it up, I put a dent in it. I bought a stock from Wildcat stocks and put it on. The stock was a little fat again (being based on the factory stock, but there wasn't much I could do about that. The barrel was now a little heavy and the rifle too muzzle heavy, so I turned it down to get the balance back. I don't know if this is a custom rifle or not but it is certainly different from what you would buy.
A lot of my rifles are like this. Built or modified almost on a whim. A Model 52 Winchester with the factory barrel which was set back, re-contoured, and rechambered and put into a stock I made from a piece of myrtle wood I had. Sort of custom. I did it just because I wanted to shoot silhouette with a model 52.
So, in a real sense, these are custom rifle; just because they are nothing like the factory configuration and they were purpose built. They are not works of art (though they won't make you puke, usually), like Martin Hagn's single shots, but they are sort of unique.
As far as the custom action angle is concerned, BS. All of the so-called custom actions are production items. They are not nearly as custom as the Mauser which was re-worked by Mr. Anderson. I have one rifle which I built on a RPA action. Although some might call that a custom action, it is not nearly as "custom" as my much-modified P14 single shot or Ruger 77 single shot or Mauser actions on hunting rifles. I bought it, mounted the trigger, and put the barrel on. A slightly gifted [bleep] could have done it (some will claim that is exactly what happened). I have a model 54 Winchester which I modified to use Model 70 bottom metal. I weld on a new bolt handle, which I made. I installed a Mauser 98 bolt stop and filled in the notch in the bolt. This action is, in my opinion, a lot more custom than a Stiller I just took out of the box.
In the end, custom is whatever one perceives it to be. It is more a question of semantics than adherence to any hard and fast rule. GD

I consider my Ruger#3 a total custom rifle.
The barrel blank was built half round/ half octagon, the banded front sight is a Brno , the sling swivel is I integral with the octagon portion and the quarter rib Is milled right into the barrel.
Would was special ordered From Treebone Carving. And checkered by Denis Davidson .a Kepplinger trigger was installed previous to this, Wolf springs have been added as well as the trigger guard modified.
The rifle is chambered in .303 British.
Conversely, every one of my match rifles I have are all highly molded but I don't consider them " custom", just modified .
Sort of like a NASCAR or 1/4 mile gasser compared to a street rod I guess.
Cat

If it doesn't have a quarter rib it ain't a custom.

I love it!
Cat

What makes a gun Custom? 'That feeling!' Notable in 'pride of ​possession''. Not to be confused with the 'Chicken Little moment. Detailed, itemized invoice receipt... In wife's hand with 'that look', as... "What's this?" Response; weakly... "Err... Custom?"

Most memorably as 'Sky is Falling'! Newton's law in married life application. "For every action, an equal and opposite reaction!"


Anonymous

Exactly what a Melvin Forbes rifle is. His fingerprints are on every piece from action, action lengths, bolt, bolt handles, trigger, gunstock, bedding, blind magazines, barrel contours, twist rate and chambering. Melvin is an American Treasure. He’s also a stand up guy. Custom is when every part in a rifle is thought out from beginning to end built from the ground up for a specific means and purpose from one designer. That’s a NULA.

A custom gun, is a gun built to a customers specs.
Not a factory made gun.

Just choose your:
Action
Barrel
Stock
Trigger
Safety
Bottom metal



A custom gun, is not a bespoke gun though.
A bespoke gun is measured to your body and every part is hand polished spending silly amounts of hours.

Nice .... I like how the rib incorporates the front scope mount as well. What is it chambered?

If you going to buy them, you might as well use them.

Custom barrel, Proper chamber for the bullet I want to shoot, tuned trigger or custom trigger, pillar bedded laminate stock, or pillar bedded laminate stock.

If you assemble a bunch of parts into a rifle, it's not a custom rifle.

It's a kit gun.

If you pay someone to do the same, it's a kit rifle.

I'm not knocking the value of a kit rifle. I have some of my own and I'm very happy to hunt with them.

Why wouldn't I be????

P.S. The rifles that Echols produces are nowhere near this kit rifle category.

JR:

A Custom gun, is a Customer specced gun... right?

But by your standard, nearly all of the former great US Gunsmiths haven't made anything "custom".
They used commercial or military available actions, triggers, scope mounts, often factory barrels, made the stock, and maybe scribbled some engraving here and there.
Kit guns?


A Prechtl M98 or Hagn single shot action, are not Custom actions.
Its made to that shops/small factory specs...

A Custom or Bespoke action are two different things.


In the US, Custom is a watered down word, and can mean anything.
I can get a custom coffee mug made by my 9 year old niece in pottery class in school.
I might even persuade her to scribble some flowers into it as well... H&H style.


The Brits at least manage to call it a bespoke gun, when made completely from the ground up.

Nope
A custom rifle is not just a list of options.

I stand my by quote


If you drive by a new subdivision and notice many of the houses look the same but have different trim or deck style and maybe a 3 vs 2 car garage. They are not custom homes. I've built custom homes in a different life and they are a different animal altogether.

If you watch the custom car shows where they build some wild s#!t, much of it from scratch, they are building custom cars. A hot rod is more of a clean muscle car with some bling and of course some more muscle. Most hot rods aren't custom cars. It's not a bad thing. I'd rather have another hot rod personally.

My definition of "kit rifle" doesn't really do the rifle/smith combination justice. As there is a lot of really great smiths putting together fantastically precision tactically cool and reliable rifles. There's got to be a better name that warms the heart of the owner like owning and driving a hot rod does.

I build custom rifles. Stocks from a blank, many barrels from a blank, scope mounts, rings, sights & quarter ribs from scratch, most of the floormetals and many of the metal parts I buy in kit form from Speedy Metals. Little polishing here & there and PRESTO a custom rifle is born.

I hunt with a kit rifle (for want of a much better term) that I assembled and am thoroughly happy with it.

Can you explain this for those who don’t know what you’re speaking about??

An action.

BSA love the look of this rifle. How do you like the midnight blue and how well does it approximate bluing. I have a stainless classic 375 I have been thinking about going midnight blue with a brown Echols red pad or mcwoody red pad.

"If it doesn't have a quarter rib, it ain't custom."

Also has to have Model 70 style safety and black forearm tip. All the real custom rifles(which are necessarily bolt actions, so I'm told) have them

IMHO, if it doesn't have a handmade wood stock on it, then it's not a custom rifle.

Does anyone know what this means? I want to get a new deer rifle and want to get something good. I take a drive and talk to the guys at Hill Country or look this Echols guy up. Anyone?

After reading all this, I have concluded that i have two custom double rifles and one tuned pre 64 M70 .308. and one semi custom Ruger .338.

Then there are the Parker shotguns,,,

He is making the argument, that a true custom rifle is one that you have a gunsmith put their personal touches on and that a rifle that is chambered, threaded and put together by a gunsmith is a kit gun and is thusly not held as high in esteem.

"Custom", such grossly overworked term as relatively meaningless without further descriptive context. Yet more. Such context itself; several! For instances... A factory 'sub model', cataloged and appearing on dealer shelves unaltered by any one customer input; as "custom". A Franken-Bubba as appearing for sale on the Internet, heralded as "Custom!" Such as also existing within the same definition, a gunsmithing masterwork crafted to exact, particular customer specifications. Realistically, "custom" without more, definable as 'subtle crowbar' nudging price from $$$ to $$$$!
"Custom" inevitably and properly... "In the eye of the beholder". Another case for "buying the gun, not the story"; the term "custom" appended to that advice!
Just my take!
Best!
John

Latest reminding revelation came last night as i studied the integral ejector rod housing stop and front sight base on a 6" octagon barreled 500 Linebaugh revolver, ho lee damn what a beautiful sledgehammer of a pistola.

Oh yeah, you scored with that hammer Gunner. That sucker is a BEAUT.

Gunner,

Who built your 500? Nothing as fine as a fine custom revolver. Here's my Bowen Nimrod that has since gone down the road.

The truth is; a custom rifle is a rifle you cannot get from the factory. When a gunsmith re-stocked a 98 Mauser, re-contoured the barrel, welded on a new bolt handle, fitted scope mounts and produced something which was sort of unique, that was a custom rifle. There is a long list of master gunsmiths and gunmakers who made their living and their reputations just that way. When a gunsmith re-barreled a Model 70 and chambered it for some obscure wildcat cartridge, that would not be a custom rifle but a rifle with a custom barrel. When someone sticks the same rifle into a McMillan stock, it's a rifle with a custom barrel in an aftermarket stock.
Now, when D'Arcy Echols modifies a Winchester action, fits it with a custom barrel, puts it into a McMillan stock which is made from his pattern, and tops it off with his scope mount, that's pretty well the epitome of a custom. When I put the same stock on my rifle, it's a rifle with an aftermarket stock. Even when the rifle is a much modified action with a custom barrel and put into that stock, I have trouble calling it a custom rifle; but it is more than a kit.
I have a No1 MkIII Lee Enfield which features a home made forearm, a nice LOP extension on the butt ( cut from a premium pine fence board), a Ruger pad, and fitted with a Lyman peep sight and sourdough front. Although custom features abound, I doubt that anyone, upon seeing it, would say, "Now, that's a custom rifle!" GD

Scratch your initials in the stock with your belt buckle. There ya go, "custom".

Dang Ed, that is a nice darned pistol!

Thanks Big B, i can quickly see it becoming a favorite, bullets will be here today.

EdM, PM sent, damn, i would have been staring out the window with long face had i sent that Bowen down the road ; ]

I beg to differ on Hagn actions. Martin Hagn designed the action and builds them from scratch in batches of 10. He is, now, a one man shop and when he was with Ralf Martini-perhaps a 3 to 4 man shop. Certainly not a factory.
Those "Hagn" actions built by Hartmann and Weiss are built in-house to Martin's specs per agreement with Martin. I would not consider Hartmann and Weiss a "factory" either but a custom builder or a "bespoke" rifle builder in the same manner as Martin Hagn. Both offer different configurations on the actions per customer requests as well.

Finally, somebody gets it............