Defiance Machine has been sold to the Extreme Group (Bob Beck).....same company that bought out McMillan stocks.
Not sure what to think about this one...š³
Not great if you ask me. McMillan isn't the same company since being taken over. One has to wonder what changes are coming to see a return on investment...
I agree.....don't think this was a good move!!
Surgeon Rifles sold out and their actions/products are no where near the same....
Since it's Americans buying and selling companies in an industry I enjoy, I wish them the best of luck. Highly inflationary and regulatory business environment today, so I am sure this will not be an easy win for them. I hope it goes great though.
Capitalism at work. Develop a product. Build the brand. Cash out to a willing and able buyer for a profit. Most successful entrepreneurial small business owners do not have skills or desire to take their business to the "next level". After years decades of busting their hump to perfect their product/brand/strategy, someone offers them a handful of Benjamin's to go cool their heals relaxing on a beach or on top of a mountain, they take the money...
EG: Paul Allen... He helped Bill Gates build Microsoft to the point where they called in professional business executives to run/grow the company. He cashed out and spent the next 20 years enjoying his proceeds...
Since it's Americans buying and selling companies in an industry I enjoy, I wish them the best of luck. Highly inflationary and regulatory business environment today, so I am sure this will not be an easy win for them. I hope it goes great though.
Couldn't agree more!
My gut tells me that nothing good for the end customer will come of this . . . .
I had been wanting one of their action for awhile. After reading this the other day, I went on and bought one just in case the quality goes down. It is a Tenacity, 480 bolt face short/med action. Now to figure out what I want to build....
I had been wanting one of their action for awhile. After reading this the other day, I went on and bought one just in case the quality goes down. It is a Tenacity, 480 bolt face short/med action. Now to figure out what I want to build....
Where did ya find one in stock?? I'd like to get 1 more before the buyout/turnover to the Extreme Group.....
Great news for the competition.
Beck dicked up McMillan. I'd expect the same with Defiance.
https://shop.kaugerarms.com/actions/Kauger Arms can build you a quality action.
Lots of competition that knows their way around an action.
Only a couple great stock choices though.
I'm sure we'll be ok.
All those saying McMillan isnāt the same since Beck bought them - can you be more specific?
I never had a bad experience with McMillan before the sale, but my one experience since the sale has been better. Easier to order, better communication on their part etc. and the wait time wasnāt as long as usual.
And the fit and finish on the stock is as good as ever. And donāt even get me started on the buying experience compared to Manners. That place is an operational disaster
So what has changed that has some of you saying Beck as ādicked upā the company? Is this based on actual first hand experience or general Campfire grumpiness and herd mentality about anything that changes?
Most recently, McMillan made cuts to their available types of stocks and the actions they inlet for. They are getting rid of less-used molds or storing them away and saying they got rid of them. Also insisting on larger and more constant production runs for the smaller custom stocks they make for rifle builders, etc, refusing to do inlets that they used to do on certain stocks, etc.
Probably making more runs of stocks they can sell in large quantities to Altus, Redhawk, etc...while cutting the one-off stuff that folks on this forum tend to appreciate.
I agree with TX35W..
McMillan was the only synthetic stock maker of different molds for "unusual" rifle actions..
Which I had no problem with waiting 7-8 months for mine, because nobody else made one for my action.
Now its basically Rem 700 and clones, Tikka T3, some Win 70, Something Savage, Howa 1500.
They removed ALOT of different stock models, some molds they removed from website years ago, but still able to buy flattop, but dont list on website, you have to ask, etc etc..
Now they make almost exclusively for Rem 700.. and bought a company that makes Rem 700 clones..
So, I guess we will see rifles made one their actions, in their stocks was well.... Synergy
I agree with TX35W..
McMillan was the only synthetic stock maker of different molds for "unusual" rifle actions..
Which I had no problem with waiting 7-8 months for mine, because nobody else made one for my action.
Now its basically Rem 700 and clones, Tikka T3, some Win 70, Something Savage, Howa 1500.
They removed ALOT of different stock models, some molds they removed from website years ago, but still able to buy flattop, but dont list on website, you have to ask, etc etc..
Now they make almost exclusively for Rem 700.. and bought a company that makes Rem 700 clones..
So, I guess we will see rifles made one their actions, in their stocks was well.... Synergy
Jeffobama^^^^^
Iāve just gone to buying flattops and letting my smith make them for whatever rifle I want them on. Ends up being a bit nicer fit anyhow.
Most recently, McMillan made cuts to their available types of stocks and the actions they inlet for. They are getting rid of less-used molds or storing them away and saying they got rid of them. Also insisting on larger and more constant production runs for the smaller custom stocks they make for rifle builders, etc, refusing to do inlets that they used to do on certain stocks, etc.
Probably making more runs of stocks they can sell in large quantities to Altus, Redhawk, etc...while cutting the one-off stuff that folks on this forum tend to appreciate.
I agree with TX35W..
McMillan was the only synthetic stock maker of different molds for "unusual" rifle actions..
Which I had no problem with waiting 7-8 months for mine, because nobody else made one for my action.
Now its basically Rem 700 and clones, Tikka T3, some Win 70, Something Savage, Howa 1500.
They removed ALOT of different stock models, some molds they removed from website years ago, but still able to buy flattop, but dont list on website, you have to ask, etc etc..
Now they make almost exclusively for Rem 700.. and bought a company that makes Rem 700 clones..
So, I guess we will see rifles made one their actions, in their stocks was well.... Synergy
So basically they made sound business decisions for themselves.
Knowing a little bit about operations, marginal costs, contribution margins etc. there is absolutely no way that McMillan was turning a profit on their lower volume, more obscure work.
So they had a choice when looking at unprofitable parts of their business - either shelve the molds and stop offering those unprofitable combinations, or raise prices to the point of making them profitable. I can only imagine the meltdown on the campfire if they raised prices on their lower volume, more obscure work to try to turn a profit.
Some of you will undoubtedly say the McMillan family did it - but capitalism is part of what makes america great and when you buy a business for a certain price, it is yours to manage as you please, including running it in a way to turn the profit necessary to justify what you paid for it.
Last i checked businesses don't exist to make your life easier by making an obscure stock at a loss. They exist to make a profit for their shareholders. If Beck has concluded that focusing on larger volume patterns, inlets and dealers is the best way to maximize value of the business, more power to him from my point of view.
If there is a void left behind that is worth filling, capitalism suggests someone will fill it.
PS - so what barrel maker do we expect Beck to buy?
Most recently, McMillan made cuts to their available types of stocks and the actions they inlet for. They are getting rid of less-used molds or storing them away and saying they got rid of them. Also insisting on larger and more constant production runs for the smaller custom stocks they make for rifle builders, etc, refusing to do inlets that they used to do on certain stocks, etc.
Probably making more runs of stocks they can sell in large quantities to Altus, Redhawk, etc...while cutting the one-off stuff that folks on this forum tend to appreciate.
I agree with TX35W..
McMillan was the only synthetic stock maker of different molds for "unusual" rifle actions..
Which I had no problem with waiting 7-8 months for mine, because nobody else made one for my action.
Now its basically Rem 700 and clones, Tikka T3, some Win 70, Something Savage, Howa 1500.
They removed ALOT of different stock models, some molds they removed from website years ago, but still able to buy flattop, but dont list on website, you have to ask, etc etc..
Now they make almost exclusively for Rem 700.. and bought a company that makes Rem 700 clones..
So, I guess we will see rifles made one their actions, in their stocks was well.... Synergy
So basically they made sound business decisions for themselves.
Knowing a little bit about operations, marginal costs, contribution margins etc. there is absolutely no way that McMillan was turning a profit on their lower volume, more obscure work.
So they had a choice when looking at unprofitable parts of their business - either shelve the molds and stop offering those unprofitable combinations, or raise prices to the point of making them profitable. I can only imagine the meltdown on the campfire if they raised prices on their lower volume, more obscure work to try to turn a profit.
Some of you will undoubtedly say the McMillan family did it - but capitalism is part of what makes america great and when you buy a business for a certain price, it is yours to manage as you please, including running it in a way to turn the profit necessary to justify what you paid for it.
Last i checked businesses don't exist to make your life easier by making an obscure stock at a loss. They exist to make a profit for their shareholders. If Beck has concluded that focusing on larger volume patterns, inlets and dealers is the best way to maximize value of the business, more power to him from my point of view.
If there is a void left behind that is worth filling, capitalism suggests someone will fill it.
PS - so what barrel maker do we expect Beck to buy?
The issue is, Beck is on record (well was until censorship happened) saying that nothing changed at McMillan...until I called him out on it and then he backpedaled saying they did make changes etc etc etc.
It's all about selling to dealers, not individual customers. Defiance will have a 15 min order I bet, including a price increase for sure.
And yes, when Beck took over McMillan the prices went up at least 25%. They aren't worth that price anymore with all the other options available.
So basically they made sound business decisions for themselves.
Knowing a little bit about operations, marginal costs, contribution margins etc. there is absolutely no way that McMillan was turning a profit on their lower volume, more obscure work.
So they had a choice when looking at unprofitable parts of their business - either shelve the molds and stop offering those unprofitable combinations, or raise prices to the point of making them profitable. I can only imagine the meltdown on the campfire if they raised prices on their lower volume, more obscure work to try to turn a profit.
Some of you will undoubtedly say the McMillan family did it - but capitalism is part of what makes america great and when you buy a business for a certain price, it is yours to manage as you please, including running it in a way to turn the profit necessary to justify what you paid for it.
Last i checked businesses don't exist to make your life easier by making an obscure stock at a loss. They exist to make a profit for their shareholders. If Beck has concluded that focusing on larger volume patterns, inlets and dealers is the best way to maximize value of the business, more power to him from my point of view.
If there is a void left behind that is worth filling, capitalism suggests someone will fill it.
PS - so what barrel maker do we expect Beck to buy?
Yes, it went from a family owned company, to a venture capitalist which increased prices and cut products.
Just like what we all like about American Capitalism..
Going from local stores, to Wallmart behemoths or other chains, that imports cheap foreign [bleep], so we don't have to pay higher prices for goods made by American workers.
.
Most recently, McMillan made cuts to their available types of stocks and the actions they inlet for. They are getting rid of less-used molds or storing them away and saying they got rid of them. Also insisting on larger and more constant production runs for the smaller custom stocks they make for rifle builders, etc, refusing to do inlets that they used to do on certain stocks, etc.
Probably making more runs of stocks they can sell in large quantities to Altus, Redhawk, etc...while cutting the one-off stuff that folks on this forum tend to appreciate.
I agree with TX35W..
McMillan was the only synthetic stock maker of different molds for "unusual" rifle actions..
Which I had no problem with waiting 7-8 months for mine, because nobody else made one for my action.
Now its basically Rem 700 and clones, Tikka T3, some Win 70, Something Savage, Howa 1500.
They removed ALOT of different stock models, some molds they removed from website years ago, but still able to buy flattop, but dont list on website, you have to ask, etc etc..
Now they make almost exclusively for Rem 700.. and bought a company that makes Rem 700 clones..
So, I guess we will see rifles made one their actions, in their stocks was well.... Synergy
So basically they made sound business decisions for themselves.
Knowing a little bit about operations, marginal costs, contribution margins etc. there is absolutely no way that McMillan was turning a profit on their lower volume, more obscure work.
So they had a choice when looking at unprofitable parts of their business - either shelve the molds and stop offering those unprofitable combinations, or raise prices to the point of making them profitable. I can only imagine the meltdown on the campfire if they raised prices on their lower volume, more obscure work to try to turn a profit.
Some of you will undoubtedly say the McMillan family did it - but capitalism is part of what makes america great and when you buy a business for a certain price, it is yours to manage as you please, including running it in a way to turn the profit necessary to justify what you paid for it.
Last i checked businesses don't exist to make your life easier by making an obscure stock at a loss. They exist to make a profit for their shareholders. If Beck has concluded that focusing on larger volume patterns, inlets and dealers is the best way to maximize value of the business, more power to him from my point of view.
If there is a void left behind that is worth filling, capitalism suggests someone will fill it.
PS - so what barrel maker do we expect Beck to buy?
Actually, the changes started before the McMillan family sold the company. Before the sale they had already started reducing offerings. eg: the KS pattern went from a standard offering to a special order, with a $100 special order fee. IIRC, they had already started limiting some of the Win M70 inlet options. No more gel coat Edge fill stocks because of QC issues when the carbon fiber sometimes showed thru. And prices were already starting to trend upward. They were running flat out, full capacity, and building a backlog of orders. All of the stuff to make "Merger and Acquisition" bean counters smile. Kelly McMillan did an excellent job of prepping the company to maximize value for his family at time of sale. And he did it well. Unlike the debacle at Leupold...
So basically they made sound business decisions for themselves.
Knowing a little bit about operations, marginal costs, contribution margins etc. there is absolutely no way that McMillan was turning a profit on their lower volume, more obscure work.
So they had a choice when looking at unprofitable parts of their business - either shelve the molds and stop offering those unprofitable combinations, or raise prices to the point of making them profitable. I can only imagine the meltdown on the campfire if they raised prices on their lower volume, more obscure work to try to turn a profit.
Some of you will undoubtedly say the McMillan family did it - but capitalism is part of what makes america great and when you buy a business for a certain price, it is yours to manage as you please, including running it in a way to turn the profit necessary to justify what you paid for it.
Last i checked businesses don't exist to make your life easier by making an obscure stock at a loss. They exist to make a profit for their shareholders. If Beck has concluded that focusing on larger volume patterns, inlets and dealers is the best way to maximize value of the business, more power to him from my point of view.
If there is a void left behind that is worth filling, capitalism suggests someone will fill it.
PS - so what barrel maker do we expect Beck to buy?
Yes, it went from a family owned company, to a venture capitalist which increased prices and cut products.
Just like what we all like about American Capitalism..
Going from local stores, to Wallmart behemoths or other chains, that imports cheap foreign [bleep], so we don't have to pay higher prices for goods made by American workers.
.
You can thank Bill Clinton and unions for that... your buddies, dumbazz
Defiance Machine has been sold to the Extreme Group (Bob Beck).....same company that bought out McMillan stocks.
Not sure what to think about this one...š³
Me neither but I sure enjoy your Avatar!
Defiance Machine has been sold to the Extreme Group (Bob Beck).....same company that bought out McMillan stocks.
Not sure what to think about this one...š³
Me neither but I sure enjoy your Avatar!
Heady Topper is the GOAT......I love it!!!
šŗššŗ
Plenty of other good actions out there to choose from not really concerned about it. I'm not going to loose sleep over it.
Yeah I have a defiance but prefer my borden
All those saying McMillan isnāt the same since Beck bought them - can you be more specific?
I never had a bad experience with McMillan before the sale, but my one experience since the sale has been better. Easier to order, better communication on their part etc. and the wait time wasnāt as long as usual.
And the fit and finish on the stock is as good as ever. And donāt even get me started on the buying experience compared to Manners. That place is an operational disaster
So what has changed that has some of you saying Beck as ādicked upā the company? Is this based on actual first hand experience or general Campfire grumpiness and herd mentality about anything that changes?
I was still quoted the typical 4-6month wait, less stock options, increased prices, and can't even get a red pad anymore. Yea it's great.
I like their actions, Iāll probably buy more of them.
It looks like the CRF and 3 position safety options have vanished off the website? Am I the only one not seeing those anywhere now?
It looks like the CRF and 3 position safety options have vanished off the website? Am I the only one not seeing those anywhere now?
GG,
Yes.
Talked to their salesman a couple of weeks ago. Says no longer a option. They just want to manufacture the easy to make actions like everyone else makes with high profit margins .
Nothing special about Defiance Machine any longer.
NWT
I have 2 builds with Defiance Rebel actions and so far I'm really pleased with both. In looking at their price now after the big increase I'm not sure I'd buy another. I paid something like $1100 for mine which seemed to be a decent price, at $1645+ now not so sure its much of a deal.
It looks like the CRF and 3 position safety options have vanished off the website? Am I the only one not seeing those anywhere now?
GG,
Yes.
Talked to their salesman a couple of weeks ago. Says no longer a option. They just want to manufacture the easy to make actions like everyone else makes with high profit margins .
Nothing special about Defiance Machine any longer.
NWT
Dammit. Wanted a ruckus with a 3 pos. Looks like I futzed around too long.
Itās the same thing they did with McMillan. Eliminate all the low volume special stuff that originally made the company what it was. Focus on the high volume, high margin. Completely understand from the business perspective; but not a fan from the consumer standpoint.
I have 2 builds with Defiance Rebel actions and so far I'm really pleased with both. In looking at their price now after the big increase I'm not sure I'd buy another. I paid something like $1100 for mine which seemed to be a decent price, at $1645+ now not so sure its much of a deal.
No kidding. Nitrided anti x is now nearly $1900.
Man, that's a helluva jump for an already expensive action...
Man, that's a helluva jump for an already expensive action...
Right? Buy 2+ evo iiās for that.
Man, that's a helluva jump for an already expensive action...
Right? Buy 2+ evo iiās for that.
Just bite the bullet and get the LX1....
Man, that's a helluva jump for an already expensive action...
Right? Buy 2+ evo iiās for that.
Just bite the bullet and get the LX1....
š
Glad I snagged a CRF action when I did.
for a hunting action its hard to beat a pierce for under a $1000.00....mine with a lilja barrel is easily 1/2 moa
Seems like their pricing is getting a little crazy, the tenacity went from a little over 900$ to 1595$ not sure Iāll be using them anymore!
Seems like their pricing is getting a little crazy, the tenacity went from a little over 900$ to 1595$ not sure Iāll be using them anymore!
Defiance won't be in buisness long with pricing like that!! There's a post on snipershide where Defiance stated in spite of all their sales, they were close to shutting their doors because they were losing money...
Sounds like mismanagement almost ran it into the ground....I won't be using them anymore!!
Most recently, McMillan made cuts to their available types of stocks and the actions they inlet for. They are getting rid of less-used molds or storing them away and saying they got rid of them. Also insisting on larger and more constant production runs for the smaller custom stocks they make for rifle builders, etc, refusing to do inlets that they used to do on certain stocks, etc.
Probably making more runs of stocks they can sell in large quantities to Altus, Redhawk, etc...while cutting the one-off stuff that folks on this forum tend to appreciate.
I agree with TX35W..
McMillan was the only synthetic stock maker of different molds for "unusual" rifle actions..
Which I had no problem with waiting 7-8 months for mine, because nobody else made one for my action.
Now its basically Rem 700 and clones, Tikka T3, some Win 70, Something Savage, Howa 1500.
They removed ALOT of different stock models, some molds they removed from website years ago, but still able to buy flattop, but dont list on website, you have to ask, etc etc..
Now they make almost exclusively for Rem 700.. and bought a company that makes Rem 700 clones..
So, I guess we will see rifles made one their actions, in their stocks was well.... Synergy
So basically they made sound business decisions for themselves.
Knowing a little bit about operations, marginal costs, contribution margins etc. there is absolutely no way that McMillan was turning a profit on their lower volume, more obscure work.
So they had a choice when looking at unprofitable parts of their business - either shelve the molds and stop offering those unprofitable combinations, or raise prices to the point of making them profitable. I can only imagine the meltdown on the campfire if they raised prices on their lower volume, more obscure work to try to turn a profit.
Some of you will undoubtedly say the McMillan family did it - but capitalism is part of what makes america great and when you buy a business for a certain price, it is yours to manage as you please, including running it in a way to turn the profit necessary to justify what you paid for it.
Last i checked businesses don't exist to make your life easier by making an obscure stock at a loss. They exist to make a profit for their shareholders. If Beck has concluded that focusing on larger volume patterns, inlets and dealers is the best way to maximize value of the business, more power to him from my point of view.
If there is a void left behind that is worth filling, capitalism suggests someone will fill it.
PS - so what barrel maker do we expect Beck to buy?
Maybe so, but I used to buy a few McM stocks nearly every year and I don't buy any now.
I liked the old McM better. While they weren't perfect, I liked ordering a complete stock off an ala cart menu for an all inclusive single price. The 2023 price list is still an ala cart menu, but now if you want a hunting style stock you are charged at each step of the selection process; $578 for the stock, $64 for inletting the stock, $130 if you want a marble finish, $38 for a basic recoil pad, and $10 for QD studs. The price only goes higher if you want more or different options. I thought that the price for a complete McM stock was a little high at $500, but I really like the Hunter and Mountain RIfle styles, so I was willing to pay for them. The current price of $820 for a complete hunting stock seems too high to me, so I'm no longer buying new McMs. A lot of companies end up failing after they alienate/disregard their loyal core of customers.
I have no knowledge of Defiance Machine, but if they are managed like McM going forward, they are likely to alienate at least a portion of the customers who got them to where they are.
That said, how other people choose to spend their money and where they choose to spend it is of no interest to me.
Or so it seems to me.
Seems like their pricing is getting a little crazy, the tenacity went from a little over 900$ to 1595$ not sure Iāll be using them anymore!
Defiance won't be in buisness long with pricing like that!! There's a post on snipershide where Defiance stated in spite of all their sales, they were close to shutting their doors because they were losing money...
Sounds like mismanagement almost ran it into the ground....I won't be using them anymore!!
Jeff, I can understand raising prices but to take their bottom dollar action and add almost $600 to the the price tag tells me they don't care if they sell many....
Wonder how many custom builders will continue using Defiance actions in their builds!
Seems like their pricing is getting a little crazy, the tenacity went from a little over 900$ to 1595$ not sure Iāll be using them anymore!
Glad I got mine when I did
Seems like their pricing is getting a little crazy, the tenacity went from a little over 900$ to 1595$ not sure Iāll be using them anymore!
Still $995
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1023025877?pid=935870
Now THAT was fhuqking FUNNY! Hint.
![[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]](https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/923/WuSStH.png)
You are doing "GREAT!". Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!.................
Out of Stock....No backorder
Don't matter what the price is, if they don't have any and you can't backorder them.
Link shows new price but still out of stock
What were the fhuqking "odds"?!? Hint.
![[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]](https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/923/Wofot0.png)
Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............
The only price increase I've seen so far in on the Defiance site. I've bought two Tenacitys this year, won't buy another if that price holds, will find another receiver.
Well, the place I bought two Tenacitys from in 2022 has just posted the increase so I'll be looking for other options.
The place I got mine from about a month ago does not even show Defiance as an option anymore.
So they went up 60% because they weren't making any money before....hard to stay in business that way
More power to them its there's to run the way they see fit but 60% is a lot to over look for the last few years and they were able to buy new machines a new building and expand so who knows...hard for me to fully buy into that
Beck dicked up McMillan. I'd expect the same with Defiance.
Yep.
So they went up 60% because they weren't making any money before....hard to stay in business that way
More power to them its there's to run the way they see fit but 60% is a lot to over look for the last few years and they were able to buy new machines a new building and expand so who knows...hard for me to fully buy into that
They were not making money before, but they were making up for it in volume....lol
If some of the other action manufacturers follow suit with price increases, three will a bunch of Remington actions find their way to the lathe. The old argument that itās not worth the cost of the matching labor just went out the window.
Beck dicked up McMillan. I'd expect the same with Defiance.
Yep.
Yep. The next step is to bring in Eric Stecker to eliminate a bunch of the neatest and most unique products that make the company worth buying from, similar to what happened at Berger with the 17 caliber 30 grain bullets, and Mcmillan's elimination of many inlets and patterns.
Huhā¦ Glen just added machines to make one piece bolts last yearā¦ Iām kind of suprised he sold the companyā¦
Must have been a great offer -
Beck dicked up McMillan. I'd expect the same with Defiance.
Yep.
Yep. The next step is to bring in Eric Stecker to eliminate a bunch of the neatest and most unique products that make the company worth buying from, similar to what happened at Berger with the 17 caliber 30 grain bullets, and Mcmillan's elimination of many inlets and patterns.
Already had happened. Confirmed last week no more crf actions.
Capitalism at work. Develop a product. Build the brand. Cash out to a willing and able buyer for a profit. Most successful entrepreneurial small business owners do not have skills or desire to take their business to the "next level". After years decades of busting their hump to perfect their product/brand/strategy, someone offers them a handful of Benjamin's to go cool their heals relaxing on a beach or on top of a mountain, they take the money...
EG: Paul Allen... He helped Bill Gates build Microsoft to the point where they called in professional business executives to run/grow the company. He cashed out and spent the next 20 years enjoying his proceeds...
Bill Gates is now working with global elites and the medical mafia to make sure everyone on the planet gets this experimental poison shot also. Piece of garbage he is
Even GAP seems to be saying "enuff"
![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/jjxfYzxQ/FB-IMG-1673141452425.jpg)
Even GAP seems to be saying "enuff"
This was one of the companies I was wondering aboutā¦..
Im sure there will be more to follow!
Beck is blowing it!
The only price increase I've seen so far in on the Defiance site. I've bought two Tenacitys this year, won't buy another if that price holds, will find another receiver.
$1595.00 plus the ride. I wonāt pay it.
https://redhawkrifles.com/defiance-machine-tenacity-action/
Especially when competitors are introducing new options like this in the $900 range:
ARC Coupe De Gras
Having recently built two rifles based on the Tenacity, I'm disappointed in this move, my supplier said that the new owners had to raise the price to cover costs but I imagine the price increase is more closely related to cover the cost of purchasing the company and what ever leverage he put on it. As others have said, GA Precision has moved on and they may have been their best customer. The Tenacity is nothing special, just a very good Rem 700 clone, I don't see how anyone can justify the price of $1,600, you can still get a pretty good complete rifle for that price. I suppose all good things must come to an end but the future for Defiance doesn't look too bright.
Especially when competitors are introducing new options like this in the $900 range:
ARC Coupe De GrasThat coupe da grass is the most butt ugly receiver that I've ever seen!
Having recently built two rifles based on the Tenacity, I'm disappointed in this move, my supplier said that the new owners had to raise the price to cover costs but I imagine the price increase is more closely related to cover the cost of purchasing the company and what ever leverage he put on it. As others have said, GA Precision has moved on and they may have been their best customer. The Tenacity is nothing special, just a very good Rem 700 clone, I don't see how anyone can justify the price of $1,600, you can still get a pretty good complete rifle for that price. I suppose all good things must come to an end but the future for Defiance doesn't look too bright.
This. The guaranteed headspace actions like the anti and Tenacity were very nice with the pre-fit barrels. After the price jump they are no longer a consideration for me.
Its all about cash flow. Someone identifies a need in the market and builds something to fill the need. Then they follow with more products till the have a great small business with followers. Then someone else sees a chance to make some money using the established customer base and narrows the product offerings or the bean counters cut corners till the reputation is that of just another firm.
We used to respect craftsman, but that is changing in today's world.
I can't see them getting any cash flow at the new prices. I really think Defiance is dead in the water right now.
I've had Surgeon, Borden, Bighorn and Defiance. Of those, I like the Defiance the best. Nothing wrong with the others....I just felt like the fit and finish was best on the Defiance. I hate to see them raise the prices but understand the necessity considering what appears to be some misunderstood finances previously. However, this move is going to part waters in the industry. Some are going to move to holding costs and gaining customer ground while others follow the trend and raise prices. It's definitely going to cause ripples.
Pierce and Mackbros will benefit; among others.
like i stated in a earlier post no way does one make up loosing money on a product that has to be raised by 60% by doing it in volume...i just aint buying it and how does glenn get somebody to invest enough money to build a new building and fill it up with millions of dollars worth of machines with a questionable profit margin...again just doesnt make cents or dollars to me....my latest pierce for $1000.00 works great and in my mind borden makes as nice or better when it comes to fit and finish and his is easily a smoother action
Effectively took themselves out of the range of most of their competitors without any significant product improvement to justify it.
RIP.
They canāt fill the orders they had quick enough so they up the price and Beck is already soliciting new orders. Great business model
They canāt fill the orders they had quick enough so they up the price and Beck is already soliciting new orders. Great business model
Yup, was just checking my email and had one from them stating they are now excepting orders from new customers. So it would appear the price increase worked wonders
They canāt fill the orders they had quick enough so they up the price and Beck is already soliciting new orders. Great business model
Yup, was just checking my email and had one from they stating they are now excepting orders from new customers. So it would appear the price increase worked wonders
I got the same one.
It sucks they went this way.
I got one from ragged hole barrels a couple months ago. He had a deal worked out with them where they sent him actions every month and he got to put his name and logo on it. This was before the acquisition, but ragged hole barrels still claims to have them on their website. And the guy was great to deal with.
I got one from ragged hole barrels a couple months ago. He had a deal worked out with them where they sent him actions every month and he got to put his name and logo on it. This was before the acquisition, but ragged hole barrels still claims to have them on their website. And the guy was great to deal with.
Reading the rest of everyone's posts...I paid a lot less than todays tenacity price. I bought it because it was in my price range. Lots more options in the $1500 range.
Especially when competitors are introducing new options like this in the $900 range:
ARC Coupe De GrasThat coupe da grass is the most butt ugly receiver that I've ever seen!
There's no accounting for taste lol. Lucky Defiance has an entry level Tenacity they'll sell you for only 77% more.
They canāt fill the orders they had quick enough so they up the price and Beck is already soliciting new orders. Great business model
I reckon Bob is a bit more skilled at buisness then the average DuckDick.
Over under on when Defiance closes the doors?
How about McMillian?
You sit on the side lines whining about better men while never doing anything but lying to try and win a bet.
![[Linked Image from external-content.duckduckgo.com]](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.makeagif.com%2Fmedia%2F4-03-2017%2FS4djBT.gif&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=9e44f839d932611b1010f6e45e32027742e6a942a8f02d22177a51220496bc30.gif)
They canāt fill the orders they had quick enough so they up the price and Beck is already soliciting new orders. Great business model
I reckon Bob is a bit more skilled at buisness then the average DuckDick.
Hell, heās so skilled at it, he can probably spell it.
I got one from ragged hole barrels a couple months ago. He had a deal worked out with them where they sent him actions every month and he got to put his name and logo on it. This was before the acquisition, but ragged hole barrels still claims to have them on their website. And the guy was great to deal with.
Those are the 'Helly Betty' and 'Crazy Megan' actions. The action pricing has been updated. The Ragged Hole guys are great to deal with.
Good shootin' -Al
I got one from ragged hole barrels a couple months ago. He had a deal worked out with them where they sent him actions every month and he got to put his name and logo on it. This was before the acquisition, but ragged hole barrels still claims to have them on their website. And the guy was great to deal with.
Those are the 'Helly Betty' and 'Crazy Megan' actions. The action pricing has been updated. The Ragged Hole guys are great to deal with.
Good shootin' -Al
These guys Al?
Ragged Hole is out of Sparks, NV. That one shows Maple Grove, MN. They may be some that a dealer up there has available. -Al