....in my experience, they've been incorrect/off 100% of the time on my orders directly from them. On the order just received, the barreled action won't drop in due to the channel being off and a standard M5 bm won't drop in due to the mag box area inlet being to tight. Dropping standard M5 pillars in, they aren't going to contact the action/bm.

Some great patterns, good comb heights, quality stocks, but it's extremely frustrating to receive a stock and have to work on it before the barreled action and/or bottom metal is going to fit. M5 is a standard, barrel contours are published....it's not some secret hidden specs they have to guess at. If an M5 won't fit, fix it before it's sent out. M5 pillars are a known height....send pillars that don't have to be fitted for them, though I can live with that...if the bm/action inlet was correct to start with.

Enough of my whining... It seems the best way to get a stock from Manners is second hand after someone else has fitted an action/bm to it.

Its baffling that Manners is so consistently bad on inletting. My experience has been similar. I love their product but doubt I would order another for this reason.

I agree but will say this....Manners quality of inletting is a hell of alot better than McMillan......I think McMillan uses a chainsaw to inlet their stocks....very ragged & rough!!!

I haven't ever seen one that was that bad myself. I guess everyone lets out a stinker now and again, and I am sure I am due for one after 25+ thru the years. I did have one that I sold on a Tikka not too long ago that was cracked in the inletting, McM took it back, repaired it and all is good now.

Manners is an operational disaster. I’m 0 for 2 and said I won’t waste my time or money again. And JCM, you way being way too kind when you say they make a quality product..they can’t make it to spec! How is that quality?

I feel like the end product is a quality stock...good materials, stiff, light, etc. I agree, in saying "as received" it's poor quality.

My run of luck with McMillans continues to be quite good. I generally order 2 or so per year and have yet to send one back for anything. In fact the last 3 I've bolted on as received with no bedding and rifles are shooting .5 moa as is. Easy button in my experience. Won't be trying a Manners it sounds like.

Back in the day, we had the choice of Brown Precision or Lee Six (after they split). Stocks needed fitting; that's just the way it was. When Macmillan started selling CNC inletted stocks, everyone got spoiled and the snivel button became a default move. GD

Agree.
I sent detailed measurements on an EH5, barrel, Broughton 4.1 magnum sporter R-700,, I did the detail work. < Better than boxing it up for a return trip back and who knows how long it would take them ? and would it be right this time?
Bunch of BS when you consider the cost -$700+.

I've taken a lot of HTS/Bansner and Pacific Research from inlet blanks to finished over the last couple of decades. They were blanks, I expected the work.

When a stock is ordered to spec, it should arrive meeting those specs. If it's sniveling to expect to receive an inlet that matches the order I guess I'm guilty.

\

I've ordered 7 McMillan stocks in the past two years, #7 arrived Saturday and #8 was ordered Tuesday, they all have fit as expected with M5 fitment perfect and barrel channels very good. Only one I had to send back was for a Christensen Arms rifle where the bolt rubbed against the stock. It worked fine but for the money, I sent it back anyway and they fixed it and had it back to me in three weeks if I recall correctly. I can't imagine waiting months for a stock and then not have it fit.

I have in-laws in Kansas City and I had the pleasure of visiting Manners and shouldering some of their stocks. The fellow who was helping me seemed to be smitten with the MS and he could not drag stocks out of the back fast enough for me to try (I couldn't help but think that had I been alone, my experience may have been different). I will tell you that some I thought I'd like I really didn't after shouldering them and others felt really good. The thing that impressed me the most is there was a young woman doing shipping prep and she had a pile of boxes to label and they just kept coming. I like their stocks and patterns but I don't have the patience to spend $800 and hope it might fit. McMillan may not be as cool as Manners but they make it a lot easier and the wait is about 10 weeks based on my purchases.

This is the one I installed Saturday, barrel clears the stock up to the receiver by the thickness of a piece of paper.

My experience has been similar with McM. Never an issue

I’d heard great things about Manners so thought I’d give them a try. Like i said above, 0 for 2. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me…

I'm 2-0 for manners with my 3rd on order.

Both of my MCH-8s fit my M7 is .260 with Bartlen 2B and my M7 in .350RM with Rem Mag sporter fit without issue and both were done in 21 and 22. I've got a MCH-8 on order now for a 700LA. My smith; Jeff at Rivers bend Go Co. recommends them, plus they give a good .GOV/Veteran discount. They're local and I've visited a couple times to try stocks and have been treated well both times.

That has not been my experience at all. Between myself and friends I’ve ordered dozens of McMillans over the last 15 years or so. Only one had to be sent back. I only have a sample of 1 manners but it was not a plug and play at all. My gunsmith fixed it so it was close but it’s a shame a B&C will bolt right up and a $900 manners doesn’t.

This manners is my favorite stock(LRH) for what it’s worth. It’s just pathetic that what seems to be so many peoples favorite stock maker and one of the more expensive makers can’t inlet a stock correctly.

To be fair I ordered a expensive stock from stockys waited 3+ weeks for it and it was wrong too. I ordered the vertical grip stock for a Howa mini and after playing around figured out it’s close on top for a model seven. He bottom is not correct for a seven floor plate though.

I have 50++ MacaMilion's and never a "glitch" in any of 'em. Pards are good for that many and more,less a single "issue". Hint...............

Curious what didn’t work with the LRH. I have a few and friends several more with both pillars and mini chassis and without issue as all have been plug and play.


As far as I understand it’s literally cut to fit all r700’s due the low sides that negate any issues with ejection ports or bolt releases and all I have seen are cut for proof sendero so most any barrel profile fits.

I've only ordered 1 stock. A Manners flattop was in stock. I selected my options which was a specific AICS bottom metal (Seekins) and Kelblys Atlas Tactical.

I got pillars with the stock and with the bottom metal. I can't remember what ones I used. I remember one being longer and would require trimming. The other set was perfect. Bed the bottom metal, pillars and action in devcon and it fit perfectly. No issues whatsoever...pretty easy job and was my first... Maybe got lucky.

When they used to come with the pillars already glued in, it was better. I presume that the LOP I specify will be ignored or wrong about 50% of the time, plus I started ordering the barrel channel larger than I needed for similar reasons, and still the last EH-3 I got came inletted for a sporter when I specified for a number 4. I like the stocks so I just put up with it.

I tried 2 different 700’s a Borden and a rim x. Everything just flopped around in it. Almost like it was way over inletted if that’s a word. A friend of mine helped me with pillar bedding it to the rim x 17wsm and it’s a dandy. My favorite stock I’ve used hands down. Maybe I’m lazy or easily impressed but I’m also blown away by the 17wsm. I haven’t shot factory ammo in a long time and it’s pretty cool to just put parts together add a scope trigger then magazine full of ammo. Shoot adjust the scope and carry on.

That sucks about Manners and Mcmillan as well. I was thinking the same thing about stocks yesterday. It still erks me that Mcmillan can't get the bottom metal inletting right on their model 70 stocks. Particularly the pre 64 model 70 inletting. You don't know how many times I've had to fix this:


I can definitely feel the OP's frustration. These companies have nice state of the art CNC equipment. They should be natzs azz on their inletting. The last pre 64 I bought has a Mcmillan on it and the smith just ground the hard to find $100 trigger guard. I'd like to slap the dog schidt out of that guy:


What a fn hack...^^^ You see that though, from many "gunsmiths", then I have to come in and fix schidt the best I can..:



Had to reshape that one a little more and polish it out, but it's much better now. A little paint on the stock and that one was good to go:

I often have to redo other's bedding jobs as well.. Don't even get me started on working on those damn Brown Precision PoundR stocks. The kevlar in those fights you every step of the way. You would think at the prices these guys are charging, the inletting would come out perfect. I'm always going to know I have to glass bed my own, but having a rifle drop right in with little fuss is always a relief. The last mcmillan I bought was for a Tikka T3x CTR. It was not even inletted for the flats at the action screw areas. It has aluminum pillars, so those and the stock had to be milled down a little to allow for proper fit:

I'm not going to complain too much about that one. Only paid $400 for it on ebay. ^^

Sweet stock, but I was surprised to see the lack of proper inletting for the action. The guy I bought it from was probably getting schidt poor accuracy with it. I quickly inletted the 2 problem areas and glass bedded it. Problem solved..

The thing that is funny as hell is a cheap azzed ($500) B&C for a Tikka I have was perfectly inletted. Aluminum bedding block was damned near perfect. Again, it gets glass bedded though:


That's just how it goes when you mess with any brand of stock. I'd think we should expect more out of the higher dollar ones though. JMHO..

And that is when guys swear they are getting POI shift when using a bi-pod and thinking that is normal. Not enough freefloat IMHO. Anytime that stock gets touched by the stock it affects harmonics and accuracy. A well tuned rifle will shoot the same, regardless if it's in the bags on a bench or on the ground shooting in prone off of a bipod. The reason you hear some guys say that if it's going to be freefloated, it better be generously freefloated. I'll bet if you flex that forend, it will touch the barrel pretty easily..

Inlet looks right, guard looks like the guy that designed it knew nothing about stockmaking.

Had a problem with a Manners. They did resolve the issue, but I knew I was done with them. Haven’t ordered a McMillan in a long time, but have bought a few second hand lately.

My last 3 custom orders have been through AG Composites. I’m a fan and will use them again if I have a need.

Bingo! It only works in the factory stocks because they were just as poorly designed.


Good shootin' -Al

Curious...don't mean to get off track...how would you make it fit better without grinding back of trigger guard?

You don't. The trigger guard is the issue.

The issue starts when a customer orders a stock pattern that clearly isn't going to accept the Model 70 bottom metal well. That's one of the reasons that McMillan condensed some of their offerings. Certainly, the stock companies should be advising customers of these cosmetic issues.

When I do them, it really depends on the stock....whether it's a molded in pattern or one that going to be painted. How open the grip is plays a big part.

I also have a supply of long discontinued genuine Winchester pre-64 steel trigger guards where the moronic angled rear section is flat.

Good shootin' -Al

In another lifetime I sold hot rod parts & accessories. Not much difference here. If you're looking for a factory fit, buy a factory part. Custom parts require customizing. I do agree with Al that the aftermarket parts makers could give some heads up.

I have a couple of those Hunters Edge stocks on pre 64s and was advised when ordering of the trigger guard fit by Lynn. No biggie for me, custom rifles were meant to be customized.

It’s not that Manners inletting quality is bad, it’s not. The problem I’ve had with them is I can’t recall a single order where they actually got the order correct and inletted to the specs I requested. The quality of their stocks is excellent. The difficulty is in them producing what you requested.

John

The last Manners I ordered was pretty close. I only had to file in a few places to get the M5 DBM to drop in.

$900+ stock.

I'm sure Tom is embarassed about the schidty inletting they continue to crank out, but with the high demand, I'd imagine it's easy to get over with a short trip to the bank.

Sucks for the end user, but welcome to 2023.

Well said Hig

I have three LH Tikkas in Manners stocks, dropped right in, shoot way better than I do, and they look good.

Whether it's rifles or at the race shop, I never expect anything to fit w/o moving some metal around. 'Drop in' stocks and ones with molded in pillars are really a joke. It's always better to get a basic inlet done and have the maker just put pilot holes in for the action screws. That way, you can do the pillars correctly.

This 'big name' stock had the molded in pillars in there so janky, it was stupid. When I put it on the mill to bore them out, they just pushed right out...no end mill needed.



Action screw holes correctly spaced and cut for .625 custom pillars:


Here you can see the bottom metal inletting has been milled to correct the fit:



Countersunk pillars:







I can't imagine being twitterpated over a few file strokes on a piece of hardware. If all this was easy, it would be in a bubble pack on the shelves at WalMart.

Good shootin' -Al

Man you do nice work Al!

+1. Very cool.

Thing is Al, Badger makes M5 bottom metal across the street from Manners. It's only a matter of setting up a cnc to make the proper cut and on a $900+ stock with an 8+ month wait, it's not too much to ask that it drops in.

I've ordered a bunch of McMillans and not had any issues.

Thank you both very much...appreciate it.

I'm used to fab-ing or modifying whatever needs tweaking at the race shop. It's pretty straight forward:

- Decide what you want the end result to be.
- Decide what you need to do to get there.

This Model 99 was particularly satisfying to do. A 'clean sheet of paper' pillar bedding job turned this gun into a reliable, consistent performer:










It's not a 17+ lb. Benchrest gun....though that's supposedly all I work on.....

Good shootin' -Al

The only problem I've had with McMillan is them missing the big picture. I ordered a HTG adjustable with M5 inletting. Stock #1 shows up 6 months later as a HTG adjustable with BDL inletting. A few months go by and I order the same stock as the original order. 5 months later stock #2 shows up as a HTG non adjustable with M5 inletting. Order a third time. 5 months later I get what I ordered 20 months earlier. Their inletting was spot on, they just screwed up the order 2 times. I've never ordered a Manners because their inletting has been $hitty forever.

Oh....I savvy all that, believe me. But that doesn't change the reality.

The sooner people come to grips that 'drop in' stocks aren't...and can't be...truly 'drop in', the better. Some are reasonably close, some are truly awful and the vast majority are in the middle someplace. Why would we ever want to subject ourselves to what someone sends us? Instead of the tail wagging the dog, take control of the project and do it the way you want it done in the first place.

Good shootin' -Al

Yes, the McMillan Edge pillars are not what I was expecting on the last one I changed out to M5 and pillar bedded.

Regarding the lack of drop in on stocks....I'm happy to pillar bed it and sand high spots in a barrel channel or bolt handle inlet. Manner's inlets it for pillars but the inlet's height between action and bottom metal is off for M5. The bottom metal is a standard M5 short action inlet. There's no excuse for it not to be a drop in fit. To make an excuse for it is just making an excuse for poor work.

Don't misunderstand....I'm not making excuses for anything. But as my Dad would tell me; "We can wish in one hand, crap in the other, and see which fills up first."

I just accept the reality, is all. In the end, it's a better use of my time to finish any mfgs stock from a basic inlet, than it is to go back and rework someone else's idea of how they think it should be.

We have to rework so much CNC'd stuff at the race shop that maybe I'm a bit jaded. This new CNC'd titanium mount took me a lot of mill time to redo to fit the same companies 'chute hardware, for example. All the curved relieving was done a manual mill.





A couple weeks ago, I redid this laminated fully inletted stock. Believe me, it would have been much easier for me to just start at the start. I ended up laying in some carbon fiber cloth and a piece of carbon fiber rod...it came around nicely after that.

Action just out, pre clean up:



Dial indicator zero'd:



Max. of .001 barrel movement when the action screws are cracked loose:





For me, the ends justify the means....no matter what it takes to get there.

Good shootin' -Al

A buddy of mine ordered a manners for a left hand short action 700 with the all aluminum bedding block in it. When he received it it wouldn’t even come close to dropping in. He sent it back. When it was returned he could kinda get the barreled action to seat with a bunch of effort and tightening of action screws.

This was a full custom and accuracy was just not what he expected. He decided to try a chassis and sure enough accuracy improved by a huge margin (like 1.5 MOA to .5 MOA)

He was angry and told me he was tossing the stock in the dumpster. Me being the nice guy that I am talked home off the cliff and told him just to give me the stock😁.

I took it home and found that the bedding block was not even close to fitting a 700 action! I dremelled as much as I could out and then glass bedded it to my action. It has sense become my favorite and most consistent rifle.

Stock quality seems great but bedding is horrible!

Sample of one

Any openings in your locale to be your neighbor? 😀😀

If a MDT et al can make a chassis fit as good as they do with a cnc, there is no reason Manners can't inlet with similar precision.

It can get noisy......

Couldn't agree more. But that's not the reality.

I just don't understand the mindset of ordering a product known for not getting it right. And then being upset when it's not right. The consumer made the decision to accept what they send.

"You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."
- Ayn Rand (1905-1982)

Season ends here Friday so I'll take time to look at it a bit more. Maybe the better route is to return it. You're correct, it's foolish to accept poor work. It would likely be less hassle for me to fix it myself, but in so doing, I'm supporting the practice of poor quality.

The problem with returning something for rework (besides the time)...is that it might come back still not right. And possibly needing more work after the 'fix' than what it needs right now.

Sometimes it's better to just cut our losses, fix it ourselves, swallow hard, and file it away in our memory bank for the future.

There's an aluminum bedding block stock here now that's kind of the same situation. They always need some work, either lapping or on the mill. But this one is truly nasty...the block is in there crooked, down in the front and down in the rear. As best I can tell from this lash up, the block itself is also twisted along it's length. It's advertised as a "6061 billet bedding block" which is a total marketing ploy meant to appeal to the 'bubble pack' consumer. It's actually a 6061 hardness piece of aluminum extrusion. Now that's not totally bad, in and of itself. But it's not milled from a single chunk of 6061T6 tooling stock, as is implied. I guess the hunk of extruded aluminum is how they market it as a "billet".

But a little set up time and a 1.375 ball end mill will turn the turd into ice cream. I sure hope the trigger guard doesn't need any filing...that would rattle me.

Best of luck with your project. If I can be of any assistance, let me know sir.

Good shootin' -Al

So, who's upset?

What I’m gathering from this thread is this. Al is explaining nothing is perfect and it’s very easy for him to make things close to perfect himself. Most of us don’t have that talent and skill.

What many of us are saying about Manners is we wish they were as close to drop in as a $150 B&C or Boyd’s.

TFF!

Thanks, Kaleb.

Honestly, I don't have any more talent or skill than anyone else. It's really just a matter of doing it. Yes, a mill and lathe make it 'easier', in a way. But not always. For quite a few years, I did inletting and pillar work on a drill press with a 5" compound vise bolted down to it. With the drill press quill tweaked to reduce the wander, it worked just fine. Still does. Then I got a import 7X12 mini lathe and making pillars, escutcheons, screws, etc. became a lot easier. Heck, I still use the mini lathe for a lot of things since it's right in my gun room.

The bottom line for me is that for less money spent on a stock that doesn't fit, a home tinkerer (like myself) can acquire all the tools needed to do the work himself. Thinking a project through and ending up with a good job is pretty rewarding for almost everyone, I think.

Good shootin' -Al

Yeah, don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.

I have the skills to do it, but I don't do it every day and getting things to turn out like your pics is not easy.

Most will pay their smith to fix the problems on a $900+ stock or send it back, both adding more time and money to a project that could have and should have been right to start with.

This type of quality issues goes further than stocks as I’m sure everyone knows. There’s no excuse for it. I’m working my way through a [bleep] storm with Lane suppressors. It took a year to get it through the ATF only to find out there was, and still is, a significant defect in the design that causes the thing to leak at the joints of the assembly. I know where there are 8 of those suppressors and every one of them leak. If you think it’s a pain in the a$$ to deal with a bum stock, try sorting out the change in ownership of a NFA item. Months of time and many $$ wasted. Do yourself a favor and look elsewhere if your in the market for a suppressor.

o
m
g

LOL, that’s not the worst one either.

No worries, sir. Sounds like your needs are being met and standards achieved.

Good shootin' and all the best. -Al

good thing there is snow on the ground or you could start a fire with that thing.

Checked the prices on B&C stocks lately ?

And all the best to you Al!

Higgins

😳😳😳

Is there some sort of adapter on that one?

No sir.

There is, but that's not the source of the leak.

if I read this right it has an adapter on it and a muzzle break? What kind of dumb bass suppressor manufacturer puts a brake inside a can? Not one that can make a good one. Lane cans suck

A lot of stocks are not perfect from the manufacture. You just deal with it. It's not hard to do, but does take a little time. Some are worse than others, they make it harder than it needs to be. The pre 64 trigger guard I posted a pic of earlier is something that mcmillan just does not like. For those of you calling it a poor design, it is what it is, and they are spendy. If they do not inlet it right, you will have to fix it. I prefer milling the stock and not touching the factory trigger guard. Both methods are easy to do, that is up to you, but I'd rather deepen the inletting on the stock rather than fu ck up a factory part. YMMV..

Damn near every aftermarket stock company is charging more now. The damn Tikka stock I have that I got for free, costs $500.00, so B&C is not real cheap anymore either. I will say the inletting was damn near perfect on that one though. Take that for what it is worth..

Muzzle brake only. That's part of the problem. The brake directs the gas at the seal, which won't handle the pressure even without the brake. The brake simply makes a bad situation worse.

Higgins: In terms of pure satisfaction, this pre 64 Model 70 ranks right up there for me. It took a lot of work after others had given up on it....including properly addressing the trigger guard situation. It's subtle but all there in the pics.

The note the owner sent me hangs in my my gun room:













Good shootin' -Al

Nice work Al. Great pictures.

Thanl you, Al and BSA for addressing my question about how you would go about fixing the problem.

For what it’s worth I received a greyboe today that was ordered during the thanksgiving sale. Barreled action dropped right in and so did the m5 bottom metal. All I’ll do is skim bed it or maybe not? Will see how it shoots in the new stock. Only a sample of one though.

If nothing else I would maybe bed the lug a little and see what it will do.

I hunted a bit the last 2 years with a rifle in a GB stock. Same action but I switched barrels/chamberings from last year to this. I've left it unbedded...first time I've done that with a rifle in a long time. With both barrels it shot very well. The M5 inlet has been perfect for 3 different M5 bottom metals I've used with it over the last 2 years. Should mention the action dropped in as well, but it's set up for pretty much any contour.

A drop in fit for an action and bottom metal should never be off for a company that specifically lists them in a drop down list.