Merry Christmas Everyone!
I just recently posted this question on the Hunting Rifle forum, then discovered this forum and believe it to be a better venue for my questions. Y'all help me if you can!

My precious little wife surprised me with a Cape Gun last night for my Christmas. Beautiful little 16g x 9.3X72r. Fold down express sights. All metal surfaces are Heavily engraved. The wood has knockout figuring. Very Fine checkering. It's hammerless. On the Left barrel "Ed Kettner" is stamped. On the Right, "Coin Suhl", I think. I'd love to know something about this Cape gun. It has a 4 digit serial number. Overall, it appears to be a custom rifle/shotgun combo. I don't know anything about Cape guns or Ed Kettner for that matter. I'm gonna take a SWAG and say he is/was a German or Austrian gunmaker? I just don't know where to look. Anyone with any ideas?

Don't know but that is one heck of a gift! Would love to see pics sometime.

Your best bet as to where to get answers, if not on Hunting Rifles, will be in the Gunwriters section.

BTW - that's a helluva gift! Congratulations!

Very very cool gift! You are about to get acquainted with Buffalo Arms (www.buffaloarms.com) and Huntington's . Brass, dies and suchlike are still available for the 9.3x72R (not to be confused with the more poweful 9.3x74) cartridge. You will want to have the 16 ga chamber checked for length, as many of these old guns are chambered for a 2.5" shell, or other odd length. Proper shotshells are also available, though -- a friend of mine has an English 12 ga shotgun with 2" chambers -- and he finds shells for it.

So you have a beauty that you can hunt with. Cape guns were made for the Africa trade, by and large, though they have great utility anywhere a mixed bag of game is available.

Please post pictures .

DN

A quick Google shows that Eduard Kettner made drillings and other firearms in Coln, or Koln -- Cologne, to us English-speakers -- in the late 1800's/early 1900's. Apparently quite nice ones, too . So I think your "Coin" is probably "Coln".

Extraordinary gift, for certain.

DN

Offerings at Buffalo Arms...

9.3X72R Cases*
Item #: 9.3X72R
Your Price: $3.38 / Each

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#30 RCBS Shell Holder
Item #: RCB9230
Your Price: $6.39 / Each

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9.3X72R Snap Caps
Item #: SC12280
Your Price: $11.59 / PAIR

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.366" 193 Grn. FN SP Jckted Bulletsf/9.3x72R
Item #: BAC366193
Your Price: $29.00 / Box of 50

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9.3x72R Die Set, 4d
Item #: 4D9.3X72R
Your Price: $72.55 / Each

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9.3x72R Sellier & Bellot Ammunition 193 Grn. FNSP
Item #: AMO93721
Your Price: $74.00 / Box of 20

Lots of good stuff for birthday presents.

DN

You could write them with the serial number with any questions you might have, they are still in business.

http://web2.cylex.de/firma-home/eduard-kettner-1132863.html

Thanks everybody!
There is a lot of knowledge out there. I'm just glad I know where to go to tap 99% of it! :))
I'll be trying to post pictures sometime tomorrow evening.
I hope everyone has a Happy and Blessed New Year!

Congratulations on a fine old hunting gun!

Along with the chamber length of the shotgun chamber, I would also check bore diameter. My wife bought a fine old O/U German combination gun in 16/9.3x72R a couple of years ago, and a half box of RWS ammo was part of the deal, the owner having fired half the box.

Turned out the bore actually was a perfect match for .35-caliber American bullets, so I ended up loading 180-grain Nosler Partitions designed for the various .357 handgun rounds. They work perfectly!

Apparently the shop owner pulled this rifle out his safe along with 2 full boxes of Dynamit Nobel 193gr ammo, minus 3 shells. he told her that was the only times he had shot it and it grouped the three rounds in 1-1/2 inches at 110 yards.
I'm taking it to my regular gunsmith tomorrow and let him mic it for me and verify everything is in working order.
Thanks for the info!

Here they are. Hope y'all like them! I had it checked out today and 2-3/4" shells work fine. Apparently re-bored for such.

I've gotta say, "Mama done good". That's my girl!

What a nice old firearm! Momma done good indeed!

Lt,

First off, nice gun, and great wife!

Not to pick nits, but when you say 2-3/4" shells "work fine", did you have the actual chamber length measured, or is it just that 2-3/4" shells will chamber?

Jeff

Great Old Rifle

Nice old gun!

Just 2 suggestions:

1) as Jeff mentioned, please get the chamber properly checked. Many of the German guns of this era had shorter chambers. Today's normal ammo will chamber, and you can get away with shooting a few (maybe!), but if the crimp can't completely unfold you can be playing with fire and the chamber will burst.

2) if you didn't know, RWS still loads this round (and I've seen them for sale here in Sweden)

John

My thoughts exactly. A 2 3/4" shell will drop right into a 2 1/2" chamber because it's not 2 3/4" til after it's been fired.

I wonder if this gun was made by Greener. Or was thee side safety common on Euro made guns?
Any chance of a close up of the barrel/action flats?

SOS

Thanks guys! Yes, I had it checked yesterday by my gunsmith. He measured everything and verified that it has been set up to shoot 2-3/4" shells. I was worried about that more than anything. Verifying chamber lengths like that, I trust only to a true gunsmith.
My grandpaw used to say, "That's the difference in someone that pretty much knows what they are doing, and someone that knows "exactly" what they are doing."
I've always trusted his judgement and tried to let his knowledge soak in.
I'll see what I can do about an additional pic of the barrel/action/flats.

The Left barrel has "Ed Kettner" stamped on it.
I think I forgot to mention that.

Lt,

Great! The next time you break down the gun, if you will take some photos of the proof marks stamped on the flats of the barrels, we can try to determine if it was originally chambered for 65mm shotshells, and later lengthened to 70mm. We could also probably determine when the gun was proofed. Neat gun!

Jeff

Wow, great present.

CK

Here they are.

Lt.

Good photo, thanks! I would say the proof date is the "541" for May, 1941. Both barrel's are proofed for nitro powder, that's the "N". Your shot barrel was originally 65mm(or 2-1/2"); otherwise, there would have been a "70" stamp, for 70mm.

Perhaps it's just the photo, but judging from the condition of the various marks, this gun may be older than '41, and was re-proofed. Notice that the "9.3x72", "Suhl", "541", etc look "more fresh" than the marks further forward, such as the "U", "G", etc???

Also, the "118/35" was a somewhat common way of expressing bore diameter as a gauge(like a shotgun), as opposed to the actual diameter. In this case, a 118.35 ga bore would be roughly .340". I'd be sure to slug the bore, and get an accurate bore dimension.

Anyhow, hope this helps a little. If I can dig anything more out of my proofmark book, I'll post it. The book by the way, "The Standard Directory of Proof Marks" by Gerhard Wirnsberger, is invaluable, it you get into old Euro guns. It's out of print, but can be found on the used book circuit.

Regards,

Jeff

Lt,

To expand on my previous post. The "J" with the eagle on top, is a repair proof mark, which would explain why it looks newer than the others. The "N" with eagle on top, was probably done at the same time. I wouldn't be surprised if the 9.3x72R marking is also new. I'd definitely slug the bore. If the 118/35 stamp is correct, and the bore diameter is around .340 or so, then the groove diameter is probably closer to 9mm(.358") than to 9.3mm(.366"). In which case, you could use cheaper, and easier to get, .358" bullets. Not at all a bad thing!

Jeff