What rate of Twist do you guys prefer for the .280 Remington. I have been doing some reading and I have seen everything from 1/10", 1/9.5", 1/9.25", 1/9". Some seem to thing the 1/9.25" is the Sweet spot for 140-160gr projectiles. What say you?

1-9" or 1-9.25", no slower.

MM

IIRC the SAAMI standard for the cartridge is 10". My rifle has a custom barrel with 9" twist.

jim

1-9" will give you options.

Can you explain, for the ballistically retarded?
fast or slow, which is good for what?

Fast or 1-8"-for 160 thru 180, 1-9" good for bullets ranging 140-160-175-and even 180 Berdgers,slower twist like 10" tru 14" 120 thru 140 gr bullets, a 9" works pretty good with most .284 bullets the longer the bullet the faster you need to twist it most of the time!

I have always wondered why a 1 in 10 twist is the accepted twist on a 270 by nearly everyone but hardly anyone thinks it is the proper twist for a 280. Even more puzzling is two of the twists often mentioned for the 280 are 1 in 9 and 1 in 11.

I had a 280 once with a 1 in 10 Hart barrel and it was a good shooter with bullets up through 160 grain and was outstanding with 140s. If I was ever to own another 280, I won't for personal reasons, it would have a 1 in 10 twist if at all possible.

All Remingtons in 7mm are 1-9.25" regardless of chambering........

Makes for a bit more flexibility; Sako's used to be 1-10" and they worked too, though.

MM

Remington list 1-10" for .280.

Lou

You're right, Lou I doubled checked and they do list the 280 as 1-10".

The 280 is an exception in Remington's line......hard to know why.

Unless the intent is to use bullets > 160 grains on a regular basis, the 1-10" works........after all, 270's are 1-10".

I imagine they've got some +/- in the spec too.

MM

I noticed Remington did 1-10" for .280 a while back and looked up other makers. Browning, Remington, & Weatherby all do 1-10" for .280. Ruger is the only one that does 1-9.5" for .280.

Lou

I noticed in The Nosler Reloading manual 4 or 5. That All the 7mm test barrels had a 1:9" twist. From 7-30 waters to 7mm Weatherby.

It's almost like the gun manufactures, and the bullet manufacturers have a different opinion.

That is a rather broad statement! My gunshith told me that depending on what year it was made, you could get Remmy's in 1~9:; 1~9.25", and 1~9.5

I once owned a European rifle in 7mm Mag. It had a 1~11" twist. It would not shoot anything above 140's worth a hoot. I hated it.

If one is concerned about optimum twist rate, one would be well advised to get a copy of Speer #8 manual. They have a chart in there specifying optimal twist.

Grasshopper

1-9"; for me anyway.

I have to agree with all the manufacturers on this one, and give me a 1 in 10" all day long.

It will spin everything but 175`s.

Check the current catalog........

The 280 is the only exception I can find. And I really see no reason for that to be any different than a 7-08, for example, as the 280 is equally, or more likely to shoot bullets on the heavier side of the scale.

When in doubt, I'll err to the faster side.

Can't be certain how long it's been that way, just know how it is now.

MM

Tim: Had 10"'s. Not for me. Fast twist is a good thing...

Besides,a good bullet will still shoot well with a faster twist.The way bullets are built today(longer due to monolithic copper construction, or heavy copper jackets)the faster twist is likely to be more flexible,and shoot well with a broader range of bullets. Think this is why Nosler uses 9" twist in all the 7mm's as posted above.

Thankfully, I have more than 1 rifle.

Ditto, Tim.

I have a 1 in 9 for 175s...

Wondering if a 1 in 11 wouldn't turn in slightly higer speeds for 120s--generally speaking.

Yes..............and lower pressures. A 1 in 11" will spin up to 150`s.

Monolithics excluded.

I have no input on something I do not use.

Thanks guys this has been an informative thread for me! I see most of my shooting being with 140-160gr projectiles (maybe the occational 120gr) so it would seem 1:9.5 or 1:10 would be about perfect. I am looking at a Krieger barrel, I don't know if that would make a difference.

I just bought a Kreiger for a Brno 21H action I have kicking around, just need a Recknagel safety and an Edge stock and Recknagel irons and I will have it put together.

The twist is 1-9.5 which I think proper for 160 NPs, my favoured bullet in .280Rem., which is also my favourite standard round. I hope to do 2850 with a 23" tube and am curious as to loads with Ramshot powders if anyone has tried these.

MarkG, it will make a difference by purchasing a Krieger. You will get the EXACT twist as ordered. The button made barrels are not as accurate on the twist rate as a cut rifle barrel. I`d get a 10" twist and not look back.

Tim: Just idly curious, but I'd be interested in the effects of a slower twist on pressures.

The faster twist builds pressure faster when developing loads. The faster twist is more restrictive by nature to move the bullet out the bore.

The slower the twist you can use will allow maximum velocities at lower pressure with the less restrictive twist.

Use enough twist, not a 1 size fits all.

With your theory, all makers shoud just simply run their barrels a 1 in 8" and life is just much more simple.

It just ain`t like that.

Faster is better?

Thanks Tim, 1:10" it is then! I was having trouble making my mind up. lol
Anyone see any problems with the Krieger #1 contour (light sporter) 23"??? I would like to shave a few ounces there.

Hello all,

There are two main factors in determining optimum or the slowest twist rate that will stabilize a bullet.

The most important is the length of the bullet-- the longer the bullet the faster it needs to be turned.

The second factor and of less concern-- the faster the bullet travels (read velocity) the slower it needs to turn.

An example of the higher velocity requiring less twist is weatherby. They at least in the past had slower twists in their Wea Mags than others had in the stsndards of the same caliber.

All that said for a 280 go with 9"-9.5" or 10" if shooting bullet of 160 gr. cup and core length or less.

8mmwapiti

Thanks, Tim. Guess I'd better ditch all those 9 twist 7mm's I've been using for 25 years. In hindsight, I guess they did not work too well!

I have never seen the pressure issue substantiated. I thought you had a real answer based on a study or something...my mistake.

I guess common sence is to natural for some of us, where book sence applies to the rest.

I wouldn`t ditch them, just shoot the heavy monolithics and 175 lead cores and think you are doing something.

Mistakes can be corrected, after the thought process takes hold, just don`t wait another 25 years.........

My .280 Rem. barrel from Pac-Nor is 1-9. Handles 140 gr. bullets very well.

I have never read a scientific study on the issue but have come across it a number of times over the years.

It is interesting subject, to me anyway, and probably makes about as much difference as everything else we talk about.

Enough to find but not enough to overcome exceptions. Pissing matches follow...

If pressure is increased, and I think that is a reasonable result of a faster twist, it may result in more velocity per given load, masking the velocity advantage that the slower twist might give you. But I imagine bore diameters would have to be identical to make the comparison--good luck with that--and assuming there is a reliable way of measuring pressure outside a lab....

So then a guy with a slower twist might need a bit more powder to bring a rifle up, all other things being equal, and that load might cause a whole lot of whining should it be quoted. Or worse, he could be shooting 280 factory loads in a slower twisted, slightly oversized barrel...:)

So, Tim....tell us all what you know that Nosler doesn't.... ?

I'm all ears.....while you're at it, check out Steve Timm's post regarding rotational velocity in the Hornady bullet thread under "Africa". And what's the scoop on higher pressures with faster twists?
I kinda suspected your position rested more on "monkey-see, monkey do" than any real experience in the matter..Oh, by the way, I haven't fired a 175 gr in years... but I can, if I want...

In case you haven't checked it out in quite a while,except for maybe some benchrest shooting, "slow twist for light bullets" went out of fashion about 2 decades ago.

Pm me if you have anything enlightening; this is boring....

Its plain easier to tell you what you don`t know. I don`t read about Africa, cause I ain`t ever going there. I`m not someone who reads magazines, and then proclaims myself as a professional in any repect, but I can imagine your straw basket beside the crapper is overflowing.
I conservatively have 25 custom barrels in various contours and twists, so my comments are from experience, not hearsay from what someone else had to say on the subject.
You and I have butted heads before and you are just still mad about being me twisting your panties last time.
Get over it.
I deal with hall of fame smiths, and the finest barrel makers in the country.
Go piss up another rope. You are wasting my time.

MarkG, sorry this loser has caused a perfectly good thread to be dragged into the toilet next to Bobs basket full of reading material.

I dont know if this will add anything but I will relate my experiece in hopes that it will contribute. I have/ have had three winchester featherweights all had a 10 inch twist. The first would shoot 140s exceedingly well, but anything else just mediocre. The second, which I still have, would shoot anything well and fast. The third which I have just started to experiment with, seems just like the first ie 140s only. I have also had two remingtons. They were both 9.25 twists and I am surpprised that remington now lists a 10 inch twist. Anyway both the 9.25 twist were very easy to find a good load for in any weight. My first remington would shoot 139s, 160 and 175 into a two inch combined group at 200 yards.

My conclusion is that the faster twist ie 9.25 is more likely to give you excellent results than a 10 inch twist which for me was hit or miss. Hopes this helps.

Tim - I have a .284 Rock barrel and was wanting to build a fast 7mm of some sorts. It's a 8.75 twist and I was planing on using 150gr. BST's for hunting with it. My question: will this barrel stabilize the 150's? To fast a twist for this light of bullet? Thanks, - Jim

It will certainly stabilize them. I would not have picked that twist for that bullet, but it will work.

The very long 180 grain Berger/JLK comes to mind, with that twist rate. Try some of those in there.

I like to match bullets to twists, like the 300 Saum Sendero has a 10" twist, I shoot 210 bullets. The 223 has a 12" twist, I shoot 60`s.

When building, I match twists to bullets I plan on for the rifle.

I've had several 11 twist barrels in 7mm (7STW, 7RM and 7-08s). I've also had a number of 9 twists (or 9.25) in the same.

My take is the 11 twists shoot the lighter bullets really well in the faster 7mm (mags) and the 9 twist is fine for a broader range of bullets in the slower 7s.

Big Stick use to dote on the fast twists, but look where he did most of his LR shooting - almost sea level, in heavy dense air.

The military snipers shoot under more conditions (and elevations) than anyone else and they match their twists to their bullets. They don't always use the fastest twists.

One can lean on the faster twists if their cartridge is slower, the faster stepping 7mms require less twist obviously.

I would not hesitate to go 10 twist in a 280, the 10 twist is what Dogzapper recommended a few years ago for the 280AI and he used to go with the 11 twists.

Go 10 twist.........

MtnHtr

My 280 Ackley is an 11 twist. It does just fine. I mainly shoot 120's and 140's and have no desire to shoot the heavies, but I have shot some 150 ballistic tips and it lays them right in there.

I just bet it does.........

I'm no expert, but it's been my experience that over-stabilized bullets are more inclined to be accurate than under-stabilized. It matters not a whit to me what someone else uses. Some folks use marginally slow twists for the purpose of extracting every last bit of muzzle velocity. For my purposes, 100 or even 200 f.p.s. means absolutely nothing in the field. Thus I tell folks to use whatever they want. It's their rifle and their money.

Truly I am surprised that no one has bothered to look up Speer #8 and offer some concrete evidence. I would myself, but my Speer manual is 1000 mi from me at the moment.

Grasshopper

I have seen tests done with pressures in different twists and the difference is so small as to be nearly undetectable. The biggest resistance is in getting the bullet engraved in the rifling, and whether it is 1-9 or 1-10 (or even 1-8) has hardly any effect.

Today's bullets are in general so well-balanced that "over-stabilizing" generally has very little effect. I once had a .260 Remington built with a 1-8 twist Hart barrel partly to see if it made much difference with lighter bullets. It shot everything down to 95-grain Hornady V-Maxes into under .5, and even 85-grain Sierras went just over .5--and I didn't really try many powders either.

Also, today's bullets just keep getting longer and longer. Stabilization has to do with length, not weight. Today a really long 150-grain 7mm can be longer than any of yesterday's 160's.
Throw in the possibility of shooting at different elevations (it is indeed harder to stabilize longer bullets at sea level) and I tend to err on the side of faster twist.

Other examples: The most accurate individual 7mm hunting load I have ever shot was pretty much standard load of IMR4350 and the 140 Nosler Partition, for a muzzle velocity around 2850 from a 21" Shilen barrel. It would literally put 5 shots (not 3) into .5 inch. This was in a 1-9 twist. I have also gotten fine accuracy out of 120-grain Nosler Partitions and TSX's in a 1-9 twist from a .280 Ackley at over 3300 fps. If they suffered from "over-stabilization," it wasn't showing up on targets.

You may not want to shoot 175's. but you may want to shoot a really long 150 or 160 someday. With a 1-10 twist it might not work. With a 1-9 it will--and it will still shoot light bullets.

The other way around does not work. I had another custom 7x57 made once, and the maker asked me (without telling me why) what bullet I would mostly shoot. I said 140 Partitions, so unbeknownst to me he put on a 1-11.5. It shot 140 Partitions real well (though not as well as that 1-9 Shilen barrel mentioned earlier) but sprayed 150 Ballistic Tips. That was when I measured the twist and fond out I'd been screwed.

JB,

Thanks for replying to this thread, your experiences are always good stuff!

In one of the many past VHS magazines, Ken Howell wrote an article on over-stabilization of bullets at long ranges complete with some graphics depicting how a faster twisted bullet travels with it's nose pointing straight when descending downward in it's arc at longer ranges. According to Ken's article, the bullet's nose should be following the arc's path instead of "nose straight".

Don't know if I made sense (above), but I do remember calling Sierra bullet's hotline and asking why the 12 twist is so popular in the 308Win. The tech stated it was a more accurate twist with bullets up to the 190SMK at the longer ranges. And maybe why the Marines are so fond of it?

Since then and building many more rifles I have gravitated towards the faster twists although not always the fastest twist. (for example 11 twist in the 300WM, it's great. 9 or 10 twist in the 7mms).

MtnHtr

I Do have another question. Why is the 1:10 twist universally recognized for the .270win. I mean those .277 150 bullets are pretty Long! Make them 150 TSX and....hello...
Shouldn't the 1:9 be more popular there, than it is?

I have a 280 with 1:12 and 1 with 1:9.25. The 1:12 does very well with lighter bullets but doesn't like the 160 target class bullets. It does shoot 175 Nosler Partitions well, but I figured that had to do more with the stubby shape than weight. The 1:9.25 shoots 120 - 160 very well. I have not tried anything heavier. It also does build pressure faster. I'm betting that it is the fact that it has a much tighter chamber and throat rather than the difference in twist. - Denny