I went to our local sportsman's show today and saw a booth that was offering custom rifles and scopes, I got to looking everything over and these guys acted like all the things they had where new and cutting edge and noone else sells anything like it, after I left I looked at the brochure and about fell over, they charge $3500 for essentially an accurized remington sendero and one of their scopes that has a BDC dial on it, if you want the full custom that is 6k has a custom action with what looks like a mcmillian stock and one of their huskemaw scopes with BDC dial, I guess these guys may sucker a few rich guys who don't know better but good god give me a brake how stupid do these guys think people are

thing is people will buy it!

Yep. I've seen their schit. Definitely geared toward the unknowing with $ money in their pockets. They turn them into snipers overnight......grin

I have seen a few Charletains do over a CZ 550 with a new stock and try to sell them for 5K as a custom DGR. One is born every moment, I guess...

There's the rub, unfortunately. Some guy sees their show or video, says I can do that too, buys the setup and goes out trying to whack stuff LR w/o putting in the time to truly learn the game. Only bad can come out of that equation.

Those are the guys with the TV show selling all the DVDs.

I'll pass, although it appears one or two of them can shoot.

Whom might that be?

I've watched their show and seen their video and always wondered how many animals were wounded and lost in shooting at these long distances? Exactely how much was really edited out. So many unknown variables between the end of the barrel and an animal at 600-900 yds..

2Seventy

I think they use match Berger bullets. I cant see how that would kill and animal cleanly. Match rounds dont expand like hunting bullets. They must miss a lot they just dont show it. How accurate can a factory tuned rifle be at those distances? A Rem is lucky to shoot less than 1moa. The scope look cheap as well. Ill stick to NF,Zeiss and Swarovski.

I doubt they miss anything and further doubt that they wound any game......and BTW berger bullets are awesome hunting bullets, lack of expansion is definately not a problem.

I dont agree with the price of thier guns or thier choice of scopes, but believe them to be ethical long range hunters. What that means is that they do not take shots they are unsure of and they shoot thousands of rounds each year to know what they are capable of and what thier equipment including range finders windmeters etc. are capable of.

I used to think shooting long range was some kind of voodoo. After several thousand rounds at 700 plus yards I realize that it isnt magic and doesnt take that much talent at all. It does however take a lot more dedication than most hunters are willing to expend. If you havent shot a target at that range several hundred times with good results dont launch a bullet at a game animal.

Actually I caught a bear hunt they did in AK, it was on TV a while ago, they dropped blackies at 700+, both were DRT. The one guy also dusted a grizz at about 600 I think, it took two shots, he ran about fifty yards after the first shot, then went down. Both were taken with 7mm Rem Mags or 7mm Ultra Mags shooting Berger VLDs

Wrong on both counts. Been there but haven't done that, but I've seen it and heard much about it. Problem is that in many locales you have no clue about wind currents which can swirl in a different direction, particularly in hunting situations when shooting that distance across canyons. You do get multiple shots at that distance only because in most instances the game is unaware of danger. They don't have a clue they are being hunted and at those distances the gun report means little and an errant bullet hitting nearby means nothing. I've had philosophical discussions with one of the principals of Best of the West, understand their approach and just can't buy into it.

You may be right as I do not know the guys, but one shot kills at the ranges they are shooting are not difficult and not chancy as some would have you imagine. If they are missing animals because they are shooting in situations where they know that a miss or wounding shot is a good possibility because of high winds then maybe they are not real long range hunters as I assumed. The wind is almost always the deciding factor when shooting long range. Even so I would bet they have a better ratio of one shot kills than the average hunter who does not hunt long range.
I would like to hear more about who your discussing this with. I am going to post a link to your statment on a forum that I know Mr. Burns visits and see his response to your accusations.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/for...opic-i-hope-28442/index8.html#post196248

I accused no one of anything and Burns is no longer connected with them and hasn't been for a good while. I HAVE heard of quite a number of one shot kills at very extended ranges, one exceeding 1100 yards, but I question that is the norm.

I used to enjoy the show and loved to see the turrets being utilized. Also agreed with them promoting lots of practice. Only thing I don't agree with is the prices of the rifles listed at the beginning of this thread, but I don't have to buy one.

I just reread your post bobski and appolagize. I read your post to state that you were accusing them of missing game and wounding game because of errant wind reads. If you were not making that accusation I am sorry. If you were making that accusation was that from info you gained from one of the "principles" while discussing philosophy. I am interested in knowing.
BTW I think that my misuderstanding is understandable when you quote part of my post stating that I doubt they miss or wound anything..and then state that I am wrong on both counts. I dunno maybe I am just grumpy from being down with the flu.

this is just the same-ol same-ol of calling it tactical and charging more. 20 years ago, my buds and I laffed at the kids that came strutting thru the gunshows wearing all the black SWAT stuff and trying to look cool. Now, all those kids have MBA's, and alot more cash, so they read a couple of manuals and accuracy books bought at Cabela's and think they are David ubb or Carlos Hathcock......If they even know whow that is.


Just because you read about somebody doing it with the same rifle you have doesn't mean you can too......................

Just because you can't do it... doesn't mean that everyone else can't either.

Don't know that I'd call the rifles they're building a joke... untill I have a chance to sit behind one and bomb off a couple of rounds. The prices, on the other hand, are a bit on the comical side. Seems it's pretty common to rag on the guys from BOTW lately... but I don't see to many of us here on the campfire willing to put our money where our mouths are and produce a hunting/shooting video. Or, spend the time it takes to aquire the skills and experience neccessary to build rifles capable of taking game in the 1/2 mile range (I know there's a fair number of 'smiths on this board too). Untill I do either, I'm not passing judgement on someone who has done both. ~josh

I've shot against John Porter at several NBRSA Hunter Nationals benchrest tournaments. He's as bad-azz a BR shooter as you can get..matter of fact, he kicked all our tails last season at Porcupine, S.D. to become the 2007 NBRSA Hunter Benchrest National Champion. He's also a nice guy that's very humble about his accomplishments.

These guys are serious, long range hunters that are very scientific in both their approach to this and the gear they use. Don't be too quick to dismiss what they do as typical blam-blam dolts flingin' bullets at game at ridiculous ranges.

Good shootin'. -Al

If you watch the videos, there are about 5 of them ranging, doping wind, reading tea leaves...more like death by committee.

Having hunted in the same camp with Jon Burns and shooting with him for five days, we shot every day out to @1k around 15 rounds per day, I can say with out a doubt that he knows his Sh@t, No, we did not get along well, Yes, he did help me out immensely, Is the guy one hell of a hunter and videographer, absolutely. After hearing other guys talk about him,,they have a hard time with his personality as well, however they all will tell you when in a bind or have a tough question unequivocally he will be there..The man has done a lot for our sport, and is one hell of a hunter, even though he was more pigheaded than I .My 2 cents.

I can't help but find humor in the fact that people are so quick to jump to conclusions of a guy's ability to shoot long range with consistent results, when most have never even attempted it, nor even own a rifle capable of it.

Shooting long distance(500+) isn't nearly as difficult as one would think after reading some of these 2" groups at a 100 yards is good enough threads..........

I've trained three women over the years to shoot as well as the rifle they were handed and they proved more than once that shots at that distance with the right equipment and information provided to them, made the shots a guarantee, rather than a fluke.

Wind can kinda be tough to judge at times when shooting across canyons, but that's what they make scopes for..........see your target and it's surroundings. Observe your present location and make a determination of wind speed. Compare the two, as well as an in-between spot and make the shot. No, you can't go blasting animals with this information, but you can sure as hell practice enough to make this very reliable.

I've made plenty of one-shot hits with a 223 shooting out at 800 yards, shooting on top of rimrock, across canyons, and over a river. Now, that is sporting, but I knew my range, guessed wind pretty well, and new my rifle. Those one-shot hits were on 16oz pop bottles and they're not hard to do when you have the facts.

Triggerguard.....I hear ya on the 800 yd 223 plinking. I do it with light bullets in calm winds and it is a blast to bust a full coke can at 700+. I cant do it very consistantly because the 52gr bullets are running out of steam, but it is fun. If I put the can at 800 it is almost impossible as a lot of the bullets go through the target keyholing.

I usually have some 6 inch or so square boxes that reloading supplies are shipped in laying around. I put a target spot on a couple of them and get the nephews to ride the ATV down range and just drop one box each for me and a shooting partner anywhere between 600 and 800 yards. we practice ranging, dialing in drops and shooting these boxes with bigger centerfires. I think this practice technique has help me more than anything. At first I was astonished at near hits. After a while you are not surprised when you hit the box. A while later you lose astonishment when you hit the 2 inch target spot.

I forgot to mention only one shot is allowed. If you miss you have to walk down and reteive the box. If you hit the orange target spot your shooting partner has to go get both boxes unless he hits orange also on his box. After you have walked it a few times you get pretty competitive. It is good practice and exercise.

If you say so, Al. I would not have given them the benefit of the doubt based on what I've seen. That said, I've come to see you as a serious shooter who has no reason to BS anyone......

2muchgun:
Thanks for the kind words, sir. Good shootin'. -Al

Just had a brown bear hunter show up with one and took him down to our 100 yard range to sight in. After a couple minutes of adjusting and readjusting positions and sandbags on the bench, another couple of minutes of fidgeting with turrets the first shot completely missed a 10 inch paper plate ! Another couple of minutes readjusting everything eventually resulted in a hit !

As the guide, I'm sure that's comforting.
I'll wager there was more entertainment in the ensuing days.

Ah, the joys of guiding...

Is the hunter expecting sand bags and several minutes to set up for a shot in the field or have you beat that out of him/her yet?

Best wishes for your season, Phil!

Ed

LGS east of me a ways advertises custom rifles. Stopped in there one day to take a look. He drops Savage barreled actions into Boyds laminate stocks, no bedding, no nothing. It's surprising how many he suckers into it.

Is that at JD's. Sounds about like it.

What model rifle?

This thread is like 9 years old...they've had many different rifles since 2008...

Just buy a Remington 700.

You're opinion is about as compelling as that from my neighbor's cat. You were giving Diablo rifles a reach around at every turn. You're obviously a lackey

yep

You're opinion is as good as Larry's...

I asked a question, didn't even offer an opinion, you're reading comprehension is as good as your rifle knowledge.

Geez you're an idiot that just lowers the 24hr bar daily. If it wasn't for dumbasses like you this site would get a lot more traffic.

You should get banned or just hurry up and stroke out already.

Doesn't change the fact that you're a lackey. Would you like me to show you all the reach around posts, while everyone else is rubbing cerakote off with a tissue and wondering where their rifles are?

Congrats, Hillary Clinton has more integrity than you. Let me know if you need a little help with some of the bigger words.

As seen on TV

It is one of the new ones and the good news is that it worked as intended on a bear 75 yards away !

9 year old thread........?

I'm pretty sure this was testimony on hunter as much as rifle/scope.
Spinners on a brown bear rifle tells me the guy has more money than common sense. And I'd not be shocked to learn it had less than 20 rounds down the tube before he showed up to hunt.

That's very true.

I was just curious because they earlier versions were basically Coopers.

Newer ones are still made with quality parts but if the guy yanking the trigger isn't worthy then it won't make the rifle look very good either
.

Yea.....I thought maybre Safariman was back.

I'm impressed Phil found the old thread- I couldn't have!

It was the first best of the west rifle I had ever seen so I googled it and ended up here. The rifle was a fairly new purchase that the hunter was proud of, even if not particularly familiar with, and in the end it worked just fine. Of course accurate 375 H&H usually do so long as the hunter stays composed.

They sell them at Sportsman's Warehouse now.