Douglas barrels - 24hourcampfire

How are they?

Fine. Never had one not shoot, but fouling can be hit or miss. Have had a few that foul a bit and some that foul very little. I like their stainless tubes much better than the CM, but I'm not a CM tube guy anymore.

I have two CMs, a #1 7mm-08 and a #2 338Fed both 21". I can't complain about either one. Both clean easy, and shoot well - exactly what I was expecting. They don't seem to be fast or slow comparing handloads and manual MVs. I'm planning on buying another for a 375 project.

RH

My sample of one has been perfect. SS 350 Rem. Mag. 'smithed by Mickey Coleman. Accurate and smooth, cleans easily.

Yep, and I'd fret more over who is doing the work than I would what tube they are using.

Originally Posted by Steelhead

Yep, and I'd fret more over who is doing the work than I would what tube they are using.

You've been right on the mark lately. What kool-aid are you drinking? I may have to buy the same brand.

RH

I just got two back from IT&D custom gun in Ohio...both were douglas stainless xx....one a 257W on a push feed mdl 70 and a 338WM on a mdl 700 remington that came from walmart as a 7mag for 300$...maybe just luck but both rifles shoot sub 1/2 inch and the 338 has about a 7 lb trigger...the 338 likes 180gr bal tip reloads but the 257 likes 100gr hornady spirepoint factory...they were relatively inexpensive and I can't see how any other brand could shoot much better...they dont seem to foul badly either...

Mickey, but I had wanted to use a lilja, he said Douglas was OK.

IT&D did both of mine too. Mickey was on a hiatus so I tried them based on recommendations here.

RH

I have one CM and one S/S. Both shoot well. Both clean easier than factory tubes, but maybe not quite as easy as some of my other custom tubes. i would buy another. I have also found that many smiths like Douglas tubes......

Gotta 6BR with a #4 SS Douglas that shoots great.

SS Douglas it is then.

If you dont' see how another tube could be any more accurate, then you are not extremely demanding... A Krieger or good Pac Nor have always shot well under .5 moa.... Plus the Krieger has always given longer barrel life.

Go look at Competition shooting rags, the ones like Precision Shooting, check out the winners list of barrels used.... ain't gonna see many douglas there ever.

That being said my last tube was a douglas, cause i'll be happy with .5 moa and hope to get it, and I'm not concerned on barrel life on a rifle that may fire 5 rounds a year.

Jeff

Competition & BR aside, Douglas is fine for hunting & typical varmint use.

Have had more than a few and all have been completely satisfactory and their prices are reasonable.

I prefer stainless barrels, but the CM Douglas barrels have shot equally well.

Most were long chambered by Douglas and then I just use a lathe to set the headspace and screw 'em on.

JME..&...IMHO

MM

I've found Hart to clean up the best and easiest. but don't think you will go wrong with a douglas. They've proven themself more often than not. I'm trying a bartlien on a current build.
Will be interesting to see how it works out. Good luck with your choice.

Battue

I have a 25 inch Douglas bbl in a 270 that I built as a "beanfield rifle" years ago--can't remember what contour anymore, but a step up from a sporter contour.

It shoots most everything with aplomb--it is my mostest accurate big game rig..................

Casey

Douglas barrels have and are presently being used in Benchrest. Ask Mickey Coleman or email Douglas on this -you will be suprised who shoots them....

Glenn

IIRC Melvin Forbes uses them for his ULA rifles?

For the small amount of additional money involved I can see using a Douglas over a Krieger, Rock, Schneider, or Lilja, but thats me.

Originally Posted by Stonewall

Douglas barrels have and are presently being used in Benchrest. Ask Mickey Coleman or email Douglas on this -you will be suprised who shoots them....

Glenn

I went to the Cactus Classic a month ago not one contestant used a douglas. they are much better than a factory barrel but dont confuse them for being a top notch benchrest barrel.
B

The Douglas barrel on the 280 that Mickey did for me will shoot a 5 shot group with all the holes touching. May not be benchrest accuracy but the deer that I've shot with it didn't seem to notice.

DT

Have had a half dozen rifles with Douglas barrels and they all shot very well. Currently have four, and all shoot three shots at 100 yards into groups less than 1/2 inch.

It's funny. Every time Douglas barrels come up for hunting use, someone says that they are never used in benchrest. That may be true and it may not be - I don't shoot benchrest competition. We're talking a hunting rifle.

For a hunting rig, fret more over the the gunsmith (like steelhead said) and I'd take the cash saved on the barrel and put it into better glass.

RH

I have had a pile of Douglas barrels on both big game and varmint rifles, and in both stainless and CM. In general they shoot very well, certainly sufficiently well to kill pronghorn and prairie dogs at any possible sane range.

I have only had one "bad" Douglas, but that just proves that they are like any other barrel company can make a so-so barrel now and then. And even it would group into an inch.

I've used Douglas barrels on occasion when the customer specifies them or supplies one.. My only beef with Douglas has to do with the exterior condition.. Every one I've had in the shop has two 'steps' on the contour where the tooling takes a jump to the next size.. It's a real PITA to polish them down to a finish that does not show those jumps.. Never had that issue with the other makers to date.

Originally Posted by Redneck

I've used Douglas barrels on occasion when the customer specifies them or supplies one.. My only beef with Douglas has to do with the exterior condition.. Every one I've had in the shop has two 'steps' on the contour where the tooling takes a jump to the next size.. It's a real PITA to polish them down to a finish that does not show those jumps.. Never had that issue with the other makers to date.

Lee, if you order them finish turned instead of pre-turned those two 'bumps' will be gone. It will cost an extra 10 bucks, though.
I have a slack belt sander that polishes the bumps out easily. They are caused by the steady rests on the contour lathe. When Douglas used the old Monarch lathe to contour there was only one of the bumps.

As to benchresters not using Douglas barrels you must keep in mind that benchresters are a peculiar bunch. I know, because I'm one. You'll see a shooter that's never won a match but insists on using what Tony Boyer uses. Speaking of Tony, he told me about 4 years ago that he bought four Douglas barrels the previous year and two of them were great barrels. He and Faye won several matches with them. He was impressed because the 'success' rate of the barrels he bought was 50%. A few years before that he would get Dwight Scott to chamber 20-22 barrels of another brand and only find 2-3 that were Super Shoot barrels.

I then asked him if he was still using Douglas barrels and he looked at me a little funny and said, "No." If my success rate went from 10% to 50% I'd stick with the higher rate but, as I said, benchresters are a peculiar bunch. Smiley Hensley set a world record for an aggregate (5 record targets) using Douglas barrels but I don't know what Smiley is shooting now.

Tony has told me more than once that a good barrel is where you find it. If I were at a casino and a slot machine paid off every other time I pulled the handle you couldn't get me away from it with a John Deere backhoe.

I'm convinced that Douglas barrels are as good as you can find but I may not be able to convince another person. Makes no difference to me but when a customer asks my opinion I'll tell him what I believe down to the bottom of my feet but I work for him and I'll use whatever he wants me to use. It ain't my rifle I'm building, you know.

I have a #7 Douglas HB on a 223. My notes show that the largest 5 round group it has ever fired was .653".

I wouldn't use Hart on a bet

I guess all it takes is a bad experience with your first one and you are a fan for life!

Were they willing to listen/work with you to attempt to correct the problem?
The gunsmith that has done stuff for me will freely
admit that if a rebarrel doesn't work and the shooter is able to shoot that the last place he looks is the barrel. I am talking hunting rifles, not bench rifles which he also does.
1. scope and mounts
2. His work
3. barrel
I have not had any problems with Hart-or the smith. He shoots the gun before the buyer receiving it and will show you the goups it shoots. He is also a very good benchrest shooter and someone that can be trusted. Because we have not had any problems I can't say that I know anything about Hart from the customer service side. But if I did have a problem and the smith and I couldn't work it out I would give them the gun to see what they would do or say.
However, he did recommend Bratlein for the work he is currently doing for me.

Battue

I had 3 bad experiences with Douglas and they sure had no interest in listening to me, probably why I have no interest in one of their tubes again.......ya think!

Dober

I have a Lilja on my 30-06 NULA. I can tell no difference from the Douglas versions.

Although, I have heard Melvin gets the pick of the litter on the Douglas barrels.

I have a Lilja, one on order. A Hart, 3 Pac-Nors one being a 14cal Chromoly. They all shoot fantastic, they all clean great. I have a Shilen that is better than factory but not as good as the others mentioned. I will be using a Douglas for a mauser project that is a work in progress.

It needs to be hung right. I doubt other than name there is a lick of difference.

A few years ago, Bob Collins won the Alabama State Benchrest Championship using a Douglas barreled 22 RF rifle.
Mickey probably remembers that.

Don

While they might be used sporadicly in the BR game Douglas barrels are not in wide use. In fact I dont think I have ever seen one on the equipment lists I have read.
I remember seeing a quote from Gail McMillan on another board where he basically said that Douglas barrels were high end production tubes and not a match grade barrels.
For the 50-100 dollar difference between them and a top of the line tube why bother?

I have two Douglas barrels, and both shoot well and don't accumulate bullet gack more than you would expect. One is a .284 No. 4 chrome moly that I use on my silhouette rifle; the second is a .308 No. 2 stainless on my NULA '06. It behaves well also.

Sales of barrels to rifle shooters seems to be trendy to me, in that a certain make will be popular for a while. Douglas has been trucking along for some years though.

jim

Conversely if one wants to save money why not purchase a ER Shaw or Adams and Bennet?

I think we all should keep in mind that we are shooting a hunting rifle not a bench rest. How much you willing to pay for that last .25? And how much of that last .5 is really needed?
I see so many who post their groups-me included- that show a .5 group. Doesn't really mean much unless you can show about 10 of them all shot on the same day and 5 shots per group would make it much more valid.
A douglas set up right by a good smith will usually give you all the accuracy you need and then some.

Battue

P.S. And are we good enough to bring out the best in the rifle?

I am among the ones that like Douglas barrels. I have a few and all shoot great groups. My last Dougles was in .358 cal and it will shoot 3/4" groups all day. Well I should qualify that remark, "I" can shoot those groups, the barrel might do better with someone else more proficient doing the trigger pulling.

Its not a question of need. A 3" at 100 yards gun will harvest game all day long.

I think a Douglas is a great barrel. If guys like Mickey and Melvin Forbes use them they must be a good product. As someone else mentioned, this isn't Bench Rest!!

I have no experience with their customer service so I can't comment there. I remember a number of years ago- early to mid-80s when having a Douglas barrel on your rifle was a bragging point. The only complaint I have heard is that if they make as many barrels as they do, they can't possibly be as good as the other.

The only reason I would hesitate to use one on a hunting rifle is that I prefer cut rifled barrels in lighter contours- justified or not, that's how I have evolved.

There are several barrel makers out there who are quite proud of themselves and think that their product is ALWAYS flawless and certainly don't subscribe to the customer is right theory.

Several have been mentioned in this thread and I will leave it at that.

Your right on both points. What I wanted to say and didn't do it very well was that a Douglas fitted by a good smith will give you a gun that will be more than adequate as a hunting rifle and at the same time will probably shoot well enough off the bench that it will not be considered a dog. You also have the possibility it my perform to an extraordinary level.
However, the same may apply to any that are viewed to be a level above Douglas.
The individual doing the work can make or break any barrel.

Battue

I have not installed as many Douglas barrels as I have some others but I'm sure I've put on fifty or so. All have been very satisfactory. I have not tried one on a BR rifle but have used one on a "F" class rifle and it was competitive. My own coyote rifle (6mm Remington on a mauser action) has a Douglas barrel of about a #4 contour and shoots right around the half minute mark which is all I need for the purpose.
All of the barrels have been straight enough that it was not a concern. Those that I have turned down, either from a heavier contour or from a blank, have turned well with no tendency to warp. Internal finish has been good.
I don't mind the rough exterior because I drawfile most barrels anyway (most have ripples).
I would feel pretty confident of being able to make a competitive BR rifle with an air guaged Douglas barrel. I've used a few more highly regarded barrels which were not any good and I think it's entirely possible a douglas could work better. GD

Originally Posted by MColeman

As to benchresters not using Douglas barrels you must keep in mind that benchresters are a peculiar bunch. I know, because I'm one. You'll see a shooter that's never won a match but insists on using what Tony Boyer uses. Speaking of Tony, he told me about 4 years ago that he bought four Douglas barrels the previous year and two of them were great barrels. He and Faye won several matches with them. He was impressed because the 'success' rate of the barrels he bought was 50%. A few years before that he would get Dwight Scott to chamber 20-22 barrels of another brand and only find 2-3 that were Super Shoot barrels.

I then asked him if he was still using Douglas barrels and he looked at me a little funny and said, "No." If my success rate went from 10% to 50% I'd stick with the higher rate but, as I said, benchresters are a peculiar bunch. Smiley Hensley set a world record for an aggregate (5 record targets) using Douglas barrels but I don't know what Smiley is shooting now.

Tony has told me more than once that a good barrel is where you find it. If I were at a casino and a slot machine paid off every other time I pulled the handle you couldn't get me away from it with a John Deere backhoe.

I'm convinced that Douglas barrels are as good as you can find but I may not be able to convince another person. Makes no difference to me but when a customer asks my opinion I'll tell him what I believe down to the bottom of my feet but I work for him and I'll use whatever he wants me to use. It ain't my rifle I'm building, you know.

Finally, something Mickey and I can agree on. LOL

I know quite a number of people shooting Douglas tubes in benchrest. Mostly smaller local events, but benchrest nonetheless. I also know quite a number of shooters using Douglas tubes for High Power and F-class events with excellent results including numerous medals from Camp Perry over the years.

The grade of steel being used (with Lothar Walther being the exception) is the same, and chances are often comes from the same foundry. Most all of the better names (including Douglas) air-gauge their barrels to the same tolerance as well to ensure quality.

So what's the difference between a $200 blank and a $300 or $400 blank? It basically boils down to the time involved in making the barrel, or more directly, whether or not the blank has been hand lapped.

As for someone else's stating that Pac-Nor barrels are a far better grade than Douglas, you obviously haven't done a direct and controlled comparison. We did just that a few years ago, and while the Pac-Nor initially displayed a very slight advantage in accuracy, it's accuracy started to fall off much sooner than that of the Douglas and by 800 rounds the Douglas was outshooting the Pac-Nor.

The purpose of our test though was more to determine the quality and longevity of the barrels; how the wear would affect accuracy and the usable life of each when subjected to similar use conditions.

Both barrels were chambered for the 6.5-284 Norma and subjected to 1100 rounds with Ramshot Magnum powder, CCI BR2 primers, Lapua 139gr Scenar bullets, and Lapua brass from the same lots. The muzzle velocity on both were kept between 2970 and 3000 feet per second to ensure the throat erosion comparison was fair and balanced.

Tim North at Broughton Barrels performed the post-test evaluation of the barrels for us to ensure an unbiased review. The barrels were simply marked "Barrel A" and "Barrel B" so Tim would not know which manufacturer each came from. Here are his comments:

Quote

Barrel A:
Make: Pac-Nor SuperMatch
Length: 27 inches
Material: stainless steel
Twist rate: 1 in 8
Chamber: 6.5-284 Norma
Contour: factory Savage varmint
Grooves: 5
Bore finish: lead lapped by hand
RC hardness: 26 to 28

Tim's notes:
End of chamber and beginning of throat had moderate erosion. Throat had moderate plus checkering & erosion continuing 7" into barrel and then less checkering down barrel. Layered carbon & copper checking in first few inches of barrel. Fouling continued to lessening degree19" from breech then only slight discoloration to muzzle. Crown looked in good shape with minor erosion on knife edge of crown. Should be recrowned and barrel cleaned.

First rotated camera in chamber then went up one land from breech to 17" in middle of barrel then returned to breech. This was repeated for land 3&4. After going to middle of barrel on land 5 camera was returned rotating 360 every approximately 2". This was repeated from muzzle. Muzzle .2633" X .2560"

Throat could not be measured.

--------------------

Barrel B:
Make: Douglass via/Sharp Shooter Supply
Length: 27 inches
Material: stainless steel
Twist rate: 1 in 8
Chamber: 6.5-284 Norma
Contour: factory Savage varmint
Grooves: 6
Bore finish: no lapping performed
RC hardness: 28 to 30

Tim's notes:
.2648"X.2572" slightly larger than SAAMI specs. Throat had light wear with very light erosion at end of chamber and beginning of throat. Regular marks in bore believed to be reamer marks are wavy and were pronounced in breech and lesser to muzzle. Middle of barrel 7" in from both muzzle & breech had heavy deposit of copper streaks. Circular marks -reamer marks?- Similar camera process used except up & down all six lands then pulled through rotating stopping every approx. 2". Crown could be recrowned.

SAAMI bore & groove 2640 X 2560 Barrel "A" had a slightly tight groove 2633 and SAAMI 2560 bore. Barrel "B" had a very large oversize muzzle groove & bore 2648 X slightly over 2572. Barrel "B" was interesting, vertical smaller lines going with the direction of the bullet did not appear to pick up copper to any degree, lines perpendicular to the bullet path such as reamer marks or checkering in barrel did have an effect on fouling.

Tim's notes coincide with what many shooters have reported when comparing these two brands and what we had predicted, that being that the Pac-Nor barrels are noticeably softer which leads to earlier throat erosion and the accuracy fading much faster, but generally foul less due to their being hand lapped.

I've used several barrel brands, changing frequently due to advice from one expert or another. My last 2 were douglas, due to availability. They have been the most accurate barrels I have ever owned. I plan on ordering another in a week or so. I don't shoot BR, I just shoot and kill stuff.

FYI the least accurate custom barrel I've owned was a Lilja, and it shot plenty good.

Joseph

On one of my visits to Douglas I saw a benchrest gun being fitted with one of their barrels... not sure whose, but it was there.

Of course, I am biased toward Douglas Barrels as family works there.