Need some help/recommendations on the best way to form cases for the wildcat I'm working on. This is my first real foray into case forming as all I have played with to this point is Ackley's.

Anyway, I'm starting with virgin 300 RCM brass and will need to neck it down to 25cal and bump the shoulder back 90-95 thousandths. The necking down isn't much of a concern as I can manage that with some neck turning and a bushing die in several steps.

Question is, what would the best/easiest process be to bump the shoulder back as needed and what special equipment/tools will I need?

I would consider giving Butch Lambert a call. He makes a case forming die set, with bushings, to do what you want. Neil Jones also makes forming dies. Butch can be found over on www.accuratereloading.com

I believe Butch posts here as well.

Butch makes nice dies. JLC precision can make adjustments to stock dies. I would give Lonny a call at Hornady custom shop. He is a case forming wizard and can spin you up form dies fairly reasonable priced. Should be able to get away with two form dies and full length size. Or one form die to knock the shoulders back then use bushings. If Canjun Blake does not respond shoot him a PM he knows his chit when it comes to forming brass, he will help you a bunch. How does the Saum case compare to the RCM case? Any chance of blowing that brass out? never handled a RCM case to compare.

Thanks for the kind words! Go to my website and you can see my dies and what they can do. The set includes a case holder that goes in your press and 9 dies. It will work on any case from 30-06 body size and smaller. You can reduce the diameter of the case as far as a 14 cal. and as short as 1.075 in length. We are considering having available 2 additional dies to allow you to do the magnum cases and the Ultra mags. That is a next years project. Our die sets are $175.
Butch
www.shadetreeea.com

Yeah, Robert Greenleaf gave me Lonnie's name as well, just haven't been able to get in touch with him yet.

Butch, I looked at your site but am a little confused. Is your forming die set is just a generic forming die with various bushing for different neck sizes? If that's the case, what determines shoulder angle and/or the diameter at the body/shoulder junction? Also, how does it support the body of the case to prevent it from buckling?

Here's a drawing of what I'm looking to do.



The standard 300 RCM has an outside neck dia. of 0.337", and the body shoulder junction is at roughly 1.640" from the base. Here's a shot of the virgin RCM brass next to a 30-06 and 250 Savage for comparison.



As for how the RCM compares to the SAUM, it's a little smaller in diameter (0.532" vs. 0.550") and has a little longer body (1.640" vs 1.538"). The 338 RCM is the same OAL as the SAUM (2.015"), while the 300 RCM is the same length as the WSM's at 2.100" (new brass measures right at 2.088").

Many years ago I was making 243 brass out of 30-06 brass. Not the smartest thing I have ever done, but it is certainly doable if you don't mind hours of work to make a case. At any rate, I used a RCBS 25 caliber case forming die and could go from 30 caliber and move the shoulder down in one pass. Years later, I don't remember losing any cases to the work. Nowadays I go the other way and make 284 Win brass into 35-284 brass. One pass and done. Great luck with your new gun.

Hopefully it's just my computer and you guys are seeing the right case drawing, but just to sure the above drawing should show the following dimensions...

Base to body.shoulder junction = 1.550"
Base to neck/shoulder junction = 1.749"
OAL = 2.085"
Neck Length = 0.336"

I'll bet you'll pick at least 20-40fps over using the stock Winchester case.

Butches dies are very cool, they are similar to the Neils Jones set up, but cheaper cause you 9 bushings. The cases I formed had a stepped shoulder. 1st run will knock say 1/4 of the shoulder back. It will put it were it needs to be. each smaller bushing is adjusted about .05 higher or away from the shell holder. The dies does not create a step, but you can see from the the rings on the case, where is not as shiney. Butch can explain them better than me. I used them to form several wildcats to look at them before I got the reamer. I used them for some 17Javelina brass. They worked wonderful. I got a set of Jav form dies and was offered what I had in them so I left them go. I grew out of desinging my own cats. Easier to learn from someone elses trial and error. His dies are great investment if you like playing with brass or have an oddball. He is a great guy to deal with.

sometimes it's not about the improvement but more about having something no one else dies. I have a few wildcats I designed along this idea.

ML

Case forming is a learning experience. It doesn't take long, but you may ruin some brass playing with it. The only form dies that I have seen that make a perfect case everytime are the hydraulic dies. They are caliber specific and very expensive. With mine and other case forming dies, you get real close and a good stiff fireforming load will make it a beautiful piece of brass.
Jim, until I make some of the 2 larger sizes after the first of the year, mine will not size a .532 case. The 2 additional dies will work up to and including the 416 Rigby case, which is about .580. This photo is a 30-06 and the same case shortened to 1.075"OAL and 22 cal. My Grandson calls it the 22 Werewolf.Oh yeah, I rebated the rim to 223 boltface.

Butch