Just a simple observation. There are other factors involved as well, but isn't recoil a heck of a lot easier to take when you're shooting little bitty groups??? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Confidence be an ointment that soothes many ills and I believe felt recoil to be one of 'em.

However,I've always said I'd happily trade a blooded brow or a broken schnoz for a good poke.

What I love is the feeling before I hit the switch and the sweet anticipation of what's gonna soon happen! Those micro-seconds before the trigger breaks is the sweetest of feelings for me.......................

Heavy recoil is best tolerated by me when I'm rested and eager to shoot. Not when I'm tired, out of breath and worried about calling the trigger break right to make that tough shot. Then it is just another thing to get in the way.
I can still develop a flinch I've discovered. Shooting heavy trap loads out of my light Sig O/U will do it. Then I need to change ammo, rest and watch carefully what I'm doing. I can't anticipate that rap on the check, for instance. In time, any flinch I've developed works it way through and I'm back to my usual level of performance.
I do better with rifles and even better with handguns for some reason. When I use to qualify with my light, 4 inch .44 S&W, I use to split the webbing on my hand every time. But, since I didn't notice it right away, it didn't affect my scores.
Shooting groups with a rifle is too exacting for me to do really well for long with the heavier kickers. Shooting from field positions, however, is a lot more fun and allows the body to better handle the rifle's recoil.
Still, after may years of many different rifles, I've learned I always shoot just a little better from field positions with the lighter kickers. An much better when I'm not at my best.
E

I think not having tolerance for recoil is a very negative thing and reflects poorly on the character of the individual. I personally am very caring and compassionate and as such have a high amount of tolerance for recoil. To all of those with low recoil tolerance, I say "Shame on you!!" and highly recommend you change your bigoted ways immediately. In the past, recoil bigotry may have been acceptable, but not nowadays..........................


Blaine

Did ya ever notice that its always the little guys who say things like this ?
Heres a 140 pound (If hes lucky) soaking wet guy . And his 416 dont bother him
to shoot all day.
Well im glad for you Bliane. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
dave

Ever notice, when you're shooting at game, you don't feel a thing. No matter how hard it slams into you at the range, when you're shooting at an animal, you never notice the recoil.

troublsom1, I always felt that way too until one fall when I shot 3 times at a buck with a Wby Accumark in .300 WbyMag. Shoulder hurt like hell afterwards -- says a lot for stock fit. Went prairie dog shooting with my 338 Ultra earlier this year and was popping off 12-15 shots at a time from prone and it didn't bother me a bit. And the Ultra weighs a solid pound less than the Accumark did -- Go figure!

not ever been much good said about Wthby mags above .30 Cal on these boards..I think Silver Bullet is about the only one with much praise and I wonder if his is in the factory stock or after market?

Mike

Try 168 lbs at 5'11, which is 10 lbs too many for me. My height and weight notwithstanding, isn't it time you repented of recoil bigotry? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



Blaine

Blaine
No way, Last rifle to pound on me was a 338 Win Mag.
Was thinking about going back to my 6mm PPC.
If shot placment is everything . Then I should be able to place my shot with A PPC.
Nuts on all you cannon fellas
I need a pussy gun <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
dave

Of course rifle weight, stock fit, recoil pad etc all count very much the crossover cartridge for me is the 300 Magnum. I just don't enjoy shooting them much but I have them.

I was thinking of what cartridge to pick for the SA Magnum that is on order. Some choices would be a 270 WSM, 7 mm WSM, 300 WSM, 338 WSM or even the 350 RM. Since I intend to wear out the barrel on this rifle shooting it from the bench and practicing hunting positions I went with the 270 WSM.

Who needs to get kicked around all that much? John Wooters has not been heard from since he got his eye ruined by recoil.

Sounds like got his eye hurt with the scope, which does bring up an important issue. On any gun one perceives to kick, a scope with good eye relief is a very good "eye" dea.

I have been tagged by scopes four times. The first time was a Tasco scope on a 30-30, immediately impressing me that recoil is not the only consideration. The second, third, and fourth time were with a barrel light 375 Ack and an old Leupold (approx 25-30 years old). That day I learned old Leupold Vari X IIs have about 3/4" less eye relief than newer ones.

The story is actually quite funny. I swapped scopes on the Ack, because I had bad mounts and "pinched" the first scope's tube which made power adjustment difficult. I planned to send the first scope back to Leupold. I replaced this scope with an identical Vari X II, but about 20-25 years older. I did not have any problems with the first Vari X II, even with full-throttle handloads. With the second, things were fine when I was fire forming brass from factory loads.

However, when I shot the first full throttle handload the scope smacked me hard one the bridge of my nose, immediately drawing blood. It took about 20 minutes to get the bleeding stopped and the mess cleaned up. I shrugged it off as just poor shooting technique--the 375 Ack was my first rifle that generated 50 ft lbs of recoil.

I chambered and fired the second round. Guess what happened? Another hard smack on the same spot on my nose. This time, it actually hurt. I was very puzzled. After I recovered from that blow I turned the scope down from 9X to 6X and shot again. This time no problems. I finished shooting my loads, slowly increasing scope power until I made my last shot, with the scope set on 9X. This time I got tagged in the eyebrow, but there wasn't too much blood. Throughout all this, I am pleased to say my groups were good--typical for what this rifle would shoot.

Driving home it occurred to me maybe the old scope didn't have as much eye-relief as the new one. When I got home, I took a ruler, put it at the corner of my eye, and moved the new scope forward until I just got a full picture. I did the same thing with the older scope, and what do you know, the old scope had a measured 3/4" less eye relief than the new one. The old scope now resides on my dad's 270.

Blaine

AFP,

I too have been 'kissed' by the same scope several times in
succession.

I once had this no-account Burris 2x8 Signature. (It was a
bad buy from the start, as I was feeling down after my Dad's
death and, kind of like a woman buying new clothes to perk
up her spirits, I bought this high-dollar, American-made, POS
on a whim.) I put it on a modest-kicking .35 Whelen with --
thank God -- fold-down, soft, plastic lense caps over them
and off to the range.

The first shot dinged my eyebrow a bit with a slight
bruise but no bloodshed thanks to the buffering effect of the
lense covers. I tried a second round making a conscious effort
to improve my posture and technique -- but the same
thing happened! I considered what could be wrong and after
grappling a bit with the rifle, decided the scope position
was too far forward and I was being forced to creep too far
up the stock.

I know, "Duh", but it sounded like a viable reason at the
time! So, I moved it back a full eighth of an inch, which is
all the design permitted and touched offround #3. Same
result, of course, as the laws of physics had me.

After I re-read the Burris literature at home, the mystery
deepened as the claimed eye relief was just a little short
of the Leupolds I use. SURE! When I measured the eye relief,
it was 3/4 of an inch short of their claim!

Mystery solved. Now, when I buy scopes, the first thing I do
is use a small mag light, a 3X5 card, and a ruler -- not the
maker's assertions -- to establish eye relief. I'm surprised
that someone with a scar over his eye has not sued for false
claims. And if used on dangerous game, that Burris might have
left an even more impressive array of scars...

1B

Mike,

There's two of us here then. I have three other rifles (and soon a forth) that are probably better deer rounds .270, 30-30, 25-06, and 7-08 (oh yeah ... don't forget the 7 RM! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

My girlfriend and I were going though the safe the other day .... and when I came to the .300 wby, I realized this will probably always be my goto rifle. Quickly I realized saying that to her may have been a mistake <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> ... She looked at me and said ... now you can't shoot everything with that! I'm glad she left me an out ... Right baby! These others have their uses too <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> shhhh ... what I didn't tell her ... was yes ... as back-up rifles! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I did the same thing and hit my eye twice in a row. Why do we do that? It was long ago and I had just got a 99 Savage in 358 Win and the scope hit me on the eyebrow and it hurt. I stopped the blood and fired the rifle again and hit myself again in the same spot!. I never got hit by a scope again.

John Wooters suffered a detached retina. I thought that was common knowledge. Such injuries are more common with old age thus my personal concern.

I have a better way to deal with recoil. Didnt take this ol' country boy long to learn that a heavy rifle dont kick near as much as a light one. And for all you wimps that complain about the extra weight , all i can say is "Damn a weak man-Bow up!" Have been shooting and carrying heavy rifles for about 8 years and dont mind the extra weight especially when I know my shoulder will thank me later. Dont own a rifle under 10lbs in any caliber. And besides I am a heck of a lot more accurate with a rifle that stays where I point it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

encore...
Pretty obvious you don't hunt in big mountains <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
art

I thought encores were light?

Jac Weller wrote for the American Rifleman a while back. He was a barrel chested man from New Jersey and he hunted in the Rockies. Jac carried a M 70 Bull Gun. A M 70 Bull Gun has an oversized target barrel, marksman stock and steel buttplate. I am pretty sure they only came standard in 30/06 and 300 H&H so it was one of those.

Now that's a real man.

Art, you are making an assumson that everyone that hunts in big mountains uses a light rifle. let me say WRONG I hunt with a 10 lb rifle and I don't think you get much bigger than the rockies. tom

Jeez guys! All this was was a simple observation that recoil is more tolerable when you're shooting < .75" groups than when you're shooting double that <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

1.5-2" groups while getting smacked around just ain't no fun! Off a clean barrel, I'm getting .67" groups typically out the Ultra -- recoil????? what recoil (grin).

tom
Not looking to belittle those little hills you call mountains... but anyone foolish enough to carry a 10# rifle into them needs a little enlightening on lightening a load! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I once took a Ruger 77V on a dall sheep hunt, so I know what foolish is all about! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Funny, but at 21 it did not weigh nearly what it weighs today! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Walking in for a day or two, walking out for a day or three and shooting for a nanosecond or two equals a perfect equation for the aforementioned enlightening. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
art

Spot
Oh, that's what you meant? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
art

"Try 168 lbs at 5'11...." TRY EATIN' you skinny son of a b!+<h <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> ! I read that and said to myself "Self, you are fat bastard." Thanks a lot AFP, flippin' therapist is going to be able to buy a new beemer yet.....Good luck ya scrawny bastard, stay outta the wind <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> , Troy

Uhhhhh.........do youse guys that carry heavy rifles by choice also wear big heavy boots?????

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

JimF

little hills huh. I live at 6,000 and hunt from 9,000 to 11,000 art lol. yes jim I do since I have size 13 feet I can not avoid heavy boots lol. tom

A real shooter will just sew his eyebrow back on and keep on shooting <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
To be serious I'm working my way back from a flinch problem. I'm getting over it, but it's a new experience to be afraid of my rifle. Maybe I'm just getting old.

Heehee -- ask Big Stick about my first experience shooting a (stubby stocked) .338 Ultra from prone -- you pretty much described it!

Tom, to give Art credit, our mountains are quite tame compared to the ones in AK that the sheep hang out on. While not all of them have the elevation we are used to, in many places they are steep and brutal -- far more so than what I'm used to hunting in the Rockies. And, their highest peak is 6,000 feet taller than anything we have (grin).

OK, so I'm an unabashed lover of Alaska <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />, but can say the same for Colorado <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

I'm in the light rifle train of thought for the moment. When it finally materializes I'll let you know if I made a mistake or not... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Scott, maybe they are taller during the winter, but I think after the spring thaw that our's are taller lol. tom

I try to keep my boots light and comfortable. I only prefer my rifles to have a little weight. And as for the original question, getting the hell kicked out of ya aint fun whether you are shooting groups in the .2's or patterns. As for tolerating the weight, I built scaffolds for almost 13years. And that requires packing a lot of weight around all day long. Guess I am used to it.

Have you ever noticed that a rifle only has recoil when shooting paper and never does when shooting game. It's kinda like rifles don't like shooting paper so they make you pay for it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Boy that's the truth! I got my beak whacked by a knuckle coutesy of my 338-08 and didn't even know I was hit until I wondered what was dripping on my shoe.

(It wasn't even a game animal, just a fleeing wolvarillo)

The problem of course is that while you don't feel the game shots, all that punishment (practice) can cause you to flinch on the game shot anyway. If you hate the practice sessions due to recoil, you'll probably flinch on the game shot. (You probably won't know it though).

JimF

When I was 25 and weighed 155lbs I would take four 264 mags, and one 300 weatherby 22" lightweight with max handloaded 150 noslers, one rem. pump carbine 30:06 and shoot them all and scoff when somebody commented about the recoil. I think good muscle tone and less body weight to move makes one less recoil conscious. It doesn't hurt! It seemed if a guy weighed from 225 up, recoil from a 270 was tops. I bought a like new 264 Win from a big friend that was a rodeo cowboy. The kick was too much. He bought a 243. My oldest son shot a 225 score non-typical mulie with that gun at 16. He still has that gun and the buck in his front room.
Maybe its some math theory that would explain this. Lbs of recoil that has to move so many pounds of human. Heck I don't know.

But at 65 and out of shape I cannot tolerate the 30 mags or bigger anymore