Forgive me, I am bored.....

But, what kind of performance could be expected of such a round? In say a 22" barrel?

I also saw that PacNor has a reamer for a 6.5mm-348 Win. I expect this to out run the .30WCF based wildcat, but what would actual numbers look like for each of these?

War Eagle,

You must be bored!

If memory serves me right, E.A. Brown Co makes a 6.5 on the .30-30 case. Can't remember their name for it, offhand. But you could likely get the answers to your questions, by going to www.eabco.com (I Believe that is their website.

Grasshopper

I will also be similar to a 6.5mm Bellm.

What bullet?

FWIW, the .25-35AI gives about 2500 fps with a full charge of '335, and the 7-30 Waters gives about 2700 with the 120 V-Max with a full charge of '335, so the 6.5-30WCFAI ought to be right in 2600 fps ballpark with a 120. Another way to look at it is you're creating essentially another way to get at the 6.5JDJ.

The 6.5-348 would basically be a rimmed 6.5SAUM or 6.5WSM.

That is what I am talking about...

Actually, that would be pretty neat. I am still trying to figure out what I want to rebarrel my #1 with and for some reason I am stuck on a 6.5mm and rimmed cartridges seem to have a certain appeal.

I don't know why but I half expected a 6.5mm-30WCF Ackley would have approached a little closer to the 3000fps mark with a 120 grainer.

I must say that the 6.5mm-348 really has me very curious. If the capacity is similar to the .264 Win or a 6.5mm WSM, that is right where I would want it to effectively push some of the heavier bullets.

As far as bullets, I would really like to utilize either the Swift 130gr Scirrico or the Nosler 140gr Accubond. Although, I doubt I would use anything much heaver than a 120gr if I went the 30WCF based case.

I would definitely go Ackley either way just for the reduced cases stretch and trimming. The slight/possible velocity advantage is nice but not my main concern.

FWIW, a .30-348AI supposedly gives a water capacity of 80.0 gr. A .348AI gives the same. A standard .348Win. gives 75.0 gr.

A 6.5 WSM gives 79.5 grains.

You do the math.

FWIW, a 26" tubed 6.5WSM with the 130 gr. scirocco (no moly) and a max charge of 69.5 gr. of RL-25 should net about 3300 fps. Can't figure that a 6.5-348AI wouldn't do similarly.

Nice. Thanks for the figures. Very helpful.

QuickLoad. Great software, and for a rifle looney, a must have.

6.5x30-30 = 6.5 Bullberry.

Google up Bullberry Barrel Works in Utah.

Might even show load data. They do for most Bullberry chamberings.

6.5 x 348 Improved, it was done in the 40's or 50's by several Gun Smiths I think Roy Gradel and Ralph Smith and no doubt others.

Most had the rim turned off and some had the venturi shoulder. Some wild claims were made for the more radical versions with long free bore.

I believe the 9.3 x 74 has been necked down and improved to 6.5 bore. It is long and sexy looking cartridge with the double metric name if that blow up your bloomers.

I was wondering about this. I am still not real sure about the 6.5-348 as I am unsure of brass availability.

348 is made by Winchester on a Seasonal basis only and that doesn't mean yearly, can be as long as three years between runs.
Bertram ( not sure ) might have a generic or cylindrical case that could be converted.

9.3 x 74 mm is made by several European companies RWS, Norma,and others. Nosler & Hornaday had runs made. Available, just expensive.

4 months ago I knew a guy selling his 6.5-348 AI reamer. If your serious, PM me and I will see if it is still available.

Starline makes 50 Alaskan brass - this is essentially a .348 basic case (straight walled.)

http://www.starlinebrass.com/index.php?cPath=1

Thanks for the link MuskegMan.

Cowboybart, I may take you up on that offer; let me evaluate a few more options and figure out what I want to build first.

Can anyone give me a figure of powder capacity for the 9.3x74AI?

I don't have it handy but the 33 poachers pet in the Ackley book II would be a start, aka 33 x 74 AI. Elmer Keith also made a 33 on this case but I think his was only slightly improved being geared for single shots and double rifles.

If the .33 Poacher's Pet is an AI'd x74R case, then QuickLoad shows the water capacity at 72.0 grains, about the same (go figure) as an AI'd '06 case.

War_Eagle;

Allow me to suggest another 'cat that will give you at least .260Rem ballistics, and potentially a bit more (though not quite 6.5-06), and do with a rimmed case, easily available brass, and much less case work than the .348 or x74 case you were considering.

6.5 Epps.

The 6.5 Epps is a .303 British necked down to .264" and basically AI'd.

Very common parent brass, easy neck down, case capacity between the .308 and .30-06 cases, rimmed cartridge, and established load data.

VAnimrod, I had thought about the 303 Brit as a parent cartridge as well as the 7.62x54R Russian. I appreciate the mention of it and have already done some Google-ing now that you have recommended it.

I am starting to run into the issue of too many choices vs. little experience with wildcats (read that as NONE).

I know I want to kiss 3000fps with 140gr bullets and I want the attributes associated with an "ackley" style case--very little case stretch/trimming. I am beginning to wonder about the rimmed case. I originally wanted it for the ambiance of the rimmed case/single shot combo but am wondering if that would be the best route as my #1 is set up with an ejector for a rimless case. I don't know if there would be extra work involved to make this ejector work smoothly with a rimmed case (probably a bit of ignorance/overthinking on my part). And I really didn't want to go the belted case route. I have plenty of magnums--and love'em; I just don't want another one. Likewise, I don't really care for the WSM 'cats either. As a single shot, short/long action cartridges have no merit besides case capacity and the capability to seat bullets at length isn't dependant on the magazine length.

So all this talk of 6.5 wildcats is cool, but the more I think about it, the more I keep coming back to rounds like the 6.5-06AI and the 6.5-284 Win.

With those standards in mind, what would you recommend?

6.5x68
Rimless beltless uncommon on this side of the pond and will duplicate 264 win mag ballistics.


Water capacity is said to be 85.16 grains, the same source claims the 264 win mag at 81.51 grains


8mmwapiti

I have a fascination with the odd and esoteric wild cats but from a practical point it is best to keep it simple.

One case that I keep thinking about is the 7 x 65R case. By using this case and a 280AI reamer you would end up with a 7 x 65R AI a rimmed 280 Improved. The same thing could be done in 6.5 mm. By using two reamers or a custom neck/throat reamer you could avoid the cost of a full custom reamer. The rimmed case is only an advantage in break open doubles, singles and falling block single shots with less extraction power than the Ruger #1.

For the #1 you couldn't go wrong with the 6.5/06 Improved. The 6.5 long Krag improved would be a rimmed option but more involved case forming. The 6.5 x 284 might be trickier to get positive extraction but the reamers and dies are readily available, as are cases. The 6.5 Rem Mag is no slouch in a 26 inch barreled rifle, but it is almost obsolete itself.

Tejano has several valid points.

However.......

Given that the SAAMI 6.5x55 will push a 140 to 2800+ and the SAAMI 6.5x57 will push the same to near 3200, you should easily be able to break 3000 with a 140 in the Epps (6.5x56R Improved).

Reamers are available, as are dies.

Use a 7x57 neck size die on .303 British cases, then neck size to 6.5. Fireform, and your good.

Well, maybe a touch more involved than that, but not much.

In a #1, you should be able to get everything possible out of that case.

Sometimes practical is right...... And sometimes, it ain't.

You may have miss typed or????? A 6.5x57 will push a 140 grain bullet how fast?


8mmwapiti

Oops, looked at the facing page, not the 140 page.

Retract that last post.

If a 140 at 3000 is the bogie, you'd best look squarely at the 6.5-06 and push it HARD, or go AI with the same.

Still, a 140 at 2800ish, ain't gonna bounce off much.......

To get the 140s to 3000 fps one need the capacity of the WSM, 264 Win Mag, 6.5 STW, the 6.5/348 improved would be a rimmed WSM, The 6.5x68 or the 375 Ruger case necked to 6.5. I am sure there are more cases that can get it done but those are the ones that come to mind right now. I have a 6.5-06 and it will push 129 and 130 grain bullets to 3000 but will not reach there with the 140s.

8mmwapiti

He's running a #1 with a longer barrel. The 6.5-06 might get there in that set-up; the 6.5-06AI should.

Agreed that the 6.5-348AI would and would basically be a rimmed WSM.

If you lump together all the .506 to .510 rim diameter cartridges there are a bunch. The .506-8 rim is the 45/70 or 45/90 case and the .510 the 348 case. There are a couple of metrics and the 280 Ross in this same rim diameter range.

So check out what has already been done or is available off the shelf before dropping the hammer on the project. A completely new wild cat will set you back at least $4-600 over an existing one with dies already available. I have never done it as I never get past the $$$ research point. I always settled for a more common chamber usually an AI but not a full blown wildcat.

6.5X307 Improved, or 6.5 Super Bower should be in our sights also as you ponder.

How about a 260 Remington rimmed improved?

OR

A 6.5X57R improved (just keep them out of a break action gun)

I'd no doubt go 6.5-284 and add a couple more inches of barrel length. Had one of those once that I let get away. Stupid, Stupid, Stupid...

I dont think you could go wrong with any 6.5 cat. I dont thing I would do anything that had a rim oun the case. Ive been tossin around the 6.5 WSM or Pronghorn as I heard it called once. But then experience sets in and I say why not the 260 AI.

My 6.5X284 falls a little short of what I had intended, but its a great round. Ive never owned anything that had WSM attached to it, but I think the concept is sound. Ive got a 264 with a somewhat fast barrel, but for some reason I feel like I need a 6.5 in short action. OK, lets do the short mag.

Joseph

We did the 6.5/30/30 AI, bad idea. A better idea would be the 6.5BR or just a 260 Rem AI. 30/30 cases are very weak to be running any pressures in...what a pain!

In a 14" barrel my 6.5 GR (sharp shouldered thutty thutty necked down) would push a 120 gr 2400 fps. I'd guestimate at 22" tube should get that 120 going 2700 fps. Unfortunately the 30-30 case is thin and prone to case head sepperation.

Assuming this is a project for a single shot and hence the use of a rimmed case, I'd propose and interesting mild mannered 6.5 that would shoot tiny groups and have mild recoil. A 6.5br rimmed. Take .444 brass, trim to 1.5" and neck it down. Sure, a little bit of work, but odds are you'd have the only one around, and it should be wicked accurate. Looks like 120's at about 2800 fps, and 140's at 2500 fps.