Hi guys

I'm a big fan of Chas Newton and his cartridges. The man was a ballistic genious and way ahead of his time. His First Model Newtons are also very good rifles.

I have built a .30 Newton on a Ruger Hawkeye action. I'm still in the early stages of load development, but so far I get close to 3200 fps with 180 grs North Fork bullets and 71 grs Norma MRP.

I'm interested to hear if anyone else has any experience with the Newton cartridges, not only the .30 but the rest too.

I'm currently building a .40 Newton, it wil be interesting to see how it performs. 2400 fps with 400 grs bullets is what I hope for. Newton supposedly got 3000 fps with a 300 grs bullet...

Welcome to the forum Linge,

I admire the Newton cartridges and favor their design over the belted magnums that have shoulders.

Tell us more when you can.

Linge:

Super stuff re your Newton; indeed, I agree Newton was WAY ahead of his time, and he was the father of my beloved 25/06 per the 25 Newton.

And, someone who knows about/shoots Norma MRP (a great powder in my 25/06 with the lighter bullets). Carry on!!

I had a First Model .30 Newton. Sold it last summer. It was an early Model, #272, I believe. Neat gun, loved all the fun little features like the hidden front action screw, Pope Barrels, 6 lug bolt, all that stuff.
How do you form your brass? I used .338 Win Mag.

Yes, the First Model Newtons are very good rifles with some interesting features.

I use formed 8x68S cases, no belted cases in my .30 Newton.

I also have some original brass, both Western and Speer.

Linge,

Welcome to the Campfire!

I use MRP as well in my .256 Newton, well actually it is a 6.5-'06.

I would like to hear how you do with your .400...jim

Newtons patents:

1913: A powder and propellant for use in a firearm
1914: A bullet, or projectile, with a steel wedge or nail in the point
1916: Projectile or partitioned bullet (Look at the year...)
1916: Newton loading tool
1917: Double-set trigger for the Model 1916 rifle
1920: Projectile or partitioned bullet
1924: Double-set trigger for the Model 1924 rifle

Linge,

It's nice to see inerest in the Newton cartridges. I have an original model Newton rifle in .35 Newton. It is currently at my gunsmith's getting some minor work done. When I get it back, I intend to hunt with it. I will use .375 Ruger brass.

I also have a barrel for a 1903 Springfield in an original .256 Newton. I intend to build it much like the originals but with a 1903 Sprg action. (Newton at one time sold kits for gunsmiths to convert 1903's to .256 Newton. )

Edw

When I lived in WNY I had a friend that had a .256 Newton (to be honest that started my 6.5itis ) anyway he would hunt groundhogs with that thing an man o man it would knock the crap outta those groundhogs too.

I was really impressed with that cartridge (I was a young teenager at the time and was using a .223 and then converted to a .243 )

Grasshopper,

An original .35 Newton rifle is very rare, please post pictures of it when you get it back. Is it a First Model? The .35 Newton is a real powerhouse, it delivers more energy than the .375 H&H. It has been used in Africa with great success. Charles Cottar wrote that he once shoot a charging Rhino with a .35. The bullet went through the Rhino lenghtwise..

The .256 is another good one, basically a 6.5-06. A very good long range cartridge.

Some Newton cases:



.416, .40, .400 Niedner, .400 Gipson, .35 Newton, .33 Newton, .30 Newton, .280 Newton, .276 Newton, .256 Newton, .22 Newton.



.375 Gipson





9.3 Newton

My .30 Newton:

If Newton's heirs had been getting royalties on any of his patents they would be wealthy today.

What steps are needed to form cases from the 8x68 and will the 375 Ruger brass work for the larger Newtons?

Bet there isn't alot of left handed .30 Newtons out there.

Newton never made any patents on his cartridges, but the others are good ones.

Forming cases from the 8x68S is a lot of work. The Newton case is 64 mm long, so the 8x68S case needs to be shortened. The 8x68S cases also have very solid brass, so they are tough to form.

As for the .375 Ruger, it's easy to form. Ruger/Hornady has copied Newtons design for their "new" cases, just made them a bit longer and the neck shorter. They have actually made a poorer design. They will probably need some neck reaming when formed to .30 Newton.



.375 Gipson on the left, .375 Ruger on the right.

That is great information. Thank you for posting it up. I am looking at building a 35 Newton and this is really good intel.

I got my 30 Newton headstamped brass from Quality Cartridge. Kind of pricy (three bucks apiece)but decent looking brass.
It's my intent to build a rifle in each of the more common Newton calibers (the 256, the 30, and the 35).
What I really want to see is Remington introducing the classic 700 chambered for the newton cartridges. This might get us affordable brass as well as some modern rifles.
For my Newtons I'll be using a pre-war model 70 (30 Newton) a model 54 (256), and a model 30 Express (35). All actions for which the Newtons would be appropriate and models which should have been produced in these chamberings when they were made. GD

Don't forget two other cartridges that Chas. Newton cooked up- the Savage .22 High power and the .250-3000. He wasn't just about high velocity thumpers!

I have a couple of 256 Newtons, a 1st Model #3xx, and a Husqvarna 8000 that Ray Montgomery in Grand Junction, CO, put together for me going on 20 year now. It is my favorite long action 6.5mm/.264" bore cartridge, even though making cases is a PITA.

I also have 2 1st Model Newtons in 30 USG, 1 with open sights and 1 with a factory installed bolt peep sight.

The 1st Model Newtons were nice rifles and I don't understand why none of the major U.S. firearms manufacturers ever chambered their bolt action rifles for either the 256 or 30 Newton.

In my 25" Husqvarna, I get around a 150 fps gain over the 260 and 6.5x55 and about 100 fps less than the 6.5-06 when those rifles have 24" barrels.

Jeff

Linge is dead wrong on this. Newton's heirs still have the rights, which are probably copyrights on his "chambers". Hornady and Ruger gave the Newton proprietary chamber a wide berth, when they did their new 375 Ruger. Say "Rick Jamison" three times and click your heels together,-----.

I found that I could reform a 375 Ruger virgin brass case into my 10.6mm x 375 Ruger wildcat in one plunge. But I'd like to see photos of someone making a Newton case, by simply reforming a Ruger parent case, without crushing it, in the process.

My Ruger virgin brass cases are about .005" larger than a Western 35 Newton round, that I have in my collection. But if Linge is really the same 40 Newton from a couple of years back, it's not surprising that he still says this.

Herr Schuler got some of these Newton cases that were orphaned by WWI, and then made his own thick walled 8 x 68S Schuler from them. He also changed them enough so his ammo couldn't work in the older Newtons. The closest cartridge to the 35 Newton, is the belted 358 Norma Magnum.

Last but not least; if a 416 Ruger or Remington won't make 3000 fps, with a 300 gr. bullet, there's simply no way for a 40 Newton sub-magnum to do it. My wildcat and the slightly smaller Taylors will come close to 2400 fps, with a 400 grain soft point bullet, but a tungsten cored 400 gr. solid works better, as it gives more room for the powder.

My Qual-Cart 30 newton brass is .5283 at the base, my 375 Ruger brass is .5295. My Newton chamber is .5305 so it would go fine. I think reforming the 375 to 30 newton in one pass would take some effort but should be do-able in a compound leverage press. The die would support the sidewalls well enough to prevent buckling.
Performancewise, I suspect the Newtons will perform about the same as the two Norma cartridges. The 30 should drive 180's to a bit over 3000 fps at reasonable pressures while the 35 is going to push 2800 with 250's.
Realistically, the 40 Newton is going to be close to the same as a 416 Taylor. I think that means 300's are going to make 2650 or so at reasonable pressures.
The Newton cartridges are unique mostly because of when they were designed. I suspect they were not widely adopted because Newton was a bit of a dink. He was, after all, a lawyer! GD

Greydog, how is the QC brass. I am on the hunt for 35 Newton brass now, so it would be nice to know if it was decent stuff. Good to know you think the 375 Ruger stuff would work as well. I guess it couldn't hurt to try?

No question the 375 Ruger brass would be cheaper and it should be no real problem to size to 35 in one pass. The Q-C brass looks pretty decent although, at three bucks apiece, it should almost stand up and dance! The headspace measure ment is about 80% bang on with the others being about .007" short (measured to the datum line). I'm going to try and see if one can't get some kind of a price break for a significant quantity. GD

Grey dog,
I'm not going to argue with success. I was told by Hornady that 0.050" was the most you could do with a single draw. Changing shoulders, necks, and body tapers, from 375, down to 308, is quite a big load on you, if not your press. I would think an intermediate forming die would be a good idea. Say going down from 375 std. to .323, and then down to the std. 308. It all depends on how close Ruger skated to the old Newton's tapers. But the new Ruger is a modern case design. I don't like it, but it holds a lot of powder for it's size. I haven't had to neck ream, and I came all the way down to the .323 bore, from the Basic Brass.

I agree and think it would be easier to go to 35 then to 30, assuming one has the dies. I have sized 375 H&H down to 308 Norma and run it through a 358 Norma die first to do this. The 375 brass isn't well supported by the die and one has to be careful so as to avoid buckling the case at the shoulder. You wouldn't have this problem in taking the 375 Ruger down to the Newton. GD

Greydog, thank you for the intel. That is great to hear and also to have some more options. I would think 150-200 cases would last me just about forever though.

Grey Dog,
Comparing drawing down a 375H&H to drawing down the 375 Ruger is like comparing apples and oranges. I actually did have to make my very first Boer 8mm Mag. cases out of trimmed 375 H&H virgin Remington cases. And yes they did bulge out ahead of their belts. But Hornady still used them to make what has become three sets of dies. Using my home brewed case formers, I simply could not get the extra tough brass in the Rugers to cooperate.

Furthermore, if you go down the custom case forming path, I would recommend that you use two dies. And the first would be to put only the Newton's body taper in. Then with the body fully supported in the second die, you can do the shoulders and necks.

In your 38 down to 30, I'd ask the die grinder to put the faux 9mm shoulder and file trim top, into the die which does the taper. You do have to hold the neck fast, in order to hack saw or file it. I think you will find that this case will "squirt" up, rather than thicken. A couple of cases out of a box of fifty, will be so brittle, that they won't "squirt", but only collapse, and ruin the necks. I've been losing a couple of these "ring a dings", out of every box of fifty.

By the time you realize they need annealing, it's too late. All of these cases are so tough, that I am already putting about as much mojo into the press handle as I can. I don't want these brittle cases, anyway, so I finish telescoping the necks. They don't crush downwards, but rather snap and double up, horizontally. Good riddance! It's this lack of ductility, which lets Hornady load the Rugers to such high pressures, IMO.

I think that the "ductility issue" is the primary problem with Winchester/Olin WSSM brass, making it "unfriendly" to reload when compared to the thinner and much "friendlier" Federal WSSM brass.

Jeff

Having used 375 Ruger cases to form 35 Newton cases, it is pretty easy. Quick pass through a 35 Newton sizer die then some trimming.. Not too bad really. Actually don't mind a bit and the 375 Ruger brass is pretty darned thick. Should work out well.

Scotty, did you need to turn the necks?

No sir. I don't believe there was a need.. We shall see soon enough, but I don't think 375 to 358 is too awfully much.. Just got the Talley's and scope mounted. Should get it out pretty quick..

I've tried once fired then annealled 375 Ruger brass for 30 Newton. After 5 out of 5 shoulder collapes, I stopped. I can neck down in a forming die set fine. The problem comes when I try to push the Ruger shoulder back for the Newton.
The 8x68S brass worked w/ one pass, then trim. Not the cheapest brass in the world though.

Hmm, might have to give it a try. My problem is I would like an 8x68S one day, so having that brass kicking around would be dangerous.

got all the parts and reamer to build a 30 on an hva action. all I need is time now..

Looks like the 26 Nosler is going to use the 375 Ruger case. If this is true then I'll wait and get this brass. Necking up should be easier than necking 8x68S down.

Probably already known but jamison is back making cases.Newton is among those being made with proper head stamp

I saw that. Still am necking down 375 Ruger brass for now and trimming. Doesn't take too much time and the Hornady brass seems to work decently. Might grab some of the Jamison stuff in the future though.

A Gentleman named Tom, from Cody, Wyo. has made up several Newtons. He has done a 416 wildcat Newton, and a 450 pseudo Newton. We traded fired cases, and my 10.6 x 375 Ruger has exactly the same capacity as his does. Mine is a sloping job, 2.6 inches long, with a half inch long neck. His is the classic 23 deg. shouldered 2.5 inch long Newton case.

I was trying to copy the 8 x 68 Schuler, using the common Ruger case. Then my G.S. did a 2 R chamber in a 416. One tenth of an inch longer neck, equals his Newton's modern body taper and my 16 deg. shoulders, against his 23 degree ones.

F.W.I.W. My 8mm Mag forming die set now has five dies. From the cylindrical Basic brass, I get, a .450, a file trim die, which only puts in my body taper, a .400 die, a .350 die, and finally, my 8mm Mag F.L. die. These 0.050" step downs are the limit to which Hornady would grind my custom die steps. The file trim, taper only die is a later improvement.

So I have Stage 1, stage 1.5, Stage 2, Stage 3, and my 8mm F.L. sizing die ( Stage 4). My 10.6mm x 375 Ruger, uses a 375 Ruger virgin case, for its parent. I can use my new F.L. sizing die to iron in my gentle shoulders, while expanding the necks from 38 to 41.

I do this forming in one plunge, and I barely have to kiss the resultant case mouths with a power case trimmer. I only have about 2 grains more than the Taylor, but then so does Tom's 416 Newton Wildcat. The 416 Ruger, and the 416 Remington, both have more capacity than the 416 Taylors or 40 Newtons. But both factories are holding their 416 caliber D.G. cartridges, back to 2400 FPS, with 400 gr. bullets.

IMO, John Rigby & Co. got it right, back in 1912, when they introduced the 416 Rigby, shooting 400 gr. bullets, right at this same 2400 fps. I can't form my wildcat cases in my Lyman 416 Rigby reloading die set, trimmed back 0.300". But I can reload them with either that set, or my own custom Hornady wildcat F.L. dies. And right down to the bullet crimps, I can't tell these reloads apart.

My local club's chrono went bonkers, when I shot my first 400 gr. bullets across its sky screens. So weather permitting, I'll take my own chrono, on the next trip out to the range. If I can reach close to 2400 fps, with 410 gr. Solids, I'll call it good, for my Express rifle developments. 2400 fps, is also just right for maximum penetration using the lighter Speer 350 gr. Mag. Tips.

Looking back, I think Ruger should have designed my half inch long necks into their 416 Ruger. With less body taper and sharper shoulders, they could have realized right at 97 grs. of H2O, to their case mouths. Tom's 416 Newton Wildcat case, with a longer neck, gives the same 97 grs. of H2O, if it is 2.6 inches long. But then it would be awfully close to the 416 Remington, and the 400 H&H. But the standard length magazines would also have to be extended to 3.5 inches, just like mine was.

Tom reported that he is getting 458 Lott velocities, with his 450 Newton wildcat. And he uses a standard length action for this 'boomer'. My 450 is designed to be minus 0.030" from the length of the 458 Win. Mag., in order to keep those under nourished puppies out of my chamber.

Short chambered barrels are shipped at minus 0.050", so a cheap replacement Adams and Bennett, short chambered 458 Win Mag. Barrel is all I will need, to make this one up on a Mauser M-98 action. The only difference between Tom's rifle and my Stage 1 forming die, is that he uses Newton's 23 degree shoulder, and I use my own 26 degree shoulder. But please note that both of these 450 wildcats have to be made from the cylindrical 375 Ruger Basic Brass, as they have less body taper than either of the Ruger factory rounds.

My 450 Magnum dummies will feed O.K. when using round nosed bullets. But my Mausers don't like some of the 45-70 Flat Pointed slugs, made for tubular magazines, in the newer lever actions. I feel that the 350 gr. Hornady R.N.'s will be cold blooded murder in this 450 pseudo-Newton. I can't see making this rifle any heavier than ten lbs.

2014 will be my year to return to Sturgis, S.D., for my third time. The RSA "UHURU" threat should play out, one way or another, by 2016. If they aren't in a Civil War, by then, I'll head back over for my second African Safari. But I'll be sixty nine years too old, to be carrying some 14 lb. cannon around.

I don't think that the Newton rifle has ever been made, which requires that much avoirdupois. They have always been sub magnums, used in standard length Twentieth Century military bolt action designs. Maybe this is still their best attribute, after their first century.

Thank you Indy. That's awesome information.

Indy, can you PM me Tom's contact #'s. I am 40 mi N of Cody and would like to visit w/ him.

Some results from the 35 Newton.

Well, I spent a good day on the range with the 35 Newton. It is a handful on the bench and this is the first time I have broken out the chrono to see what kinda FPS I was getting. I had a real good idea with the QL projections, but you can never tell.

I have worked up the first few times out. I started out around 73 grains of RL17 but groups were pretty large. Again, I wanted to work up slowly, just in case, but I knew I should be in the mid to high 2900's.

It is somewhat of a challenge doing bench work with a 6X scope at 200 yards. Not hard, but I should use a bigger bull. Either way, it is coming together decently.

Brass is reformed 375 Ruger, CCI250's and of course, the 225 AB.

75- 2920, 2918, 2980, 2960



76- 2950, 2991, 2982, 2953



77- 2966, 3048, 3049, 3021



I think a few of the readings were anomalies since the sun kinda peeked out right on the chrono. Maybe not though? Either way, I am getting plenty of speed. Gotta work a little with seating depth, but they are already pretty far off the rifling, so I will reshoot a few groups to see if I really need to change much up. It was a great start with the rifle, but it would be nice to get most of the shooting done before the sun is beaming down.

This is what the bare rifles weighs.



I am not sure what it weighs all scoped and loaded yet.





[img]http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww233/beretzs/LEL%2035%20Newton/null_zps9a5cd5a0.jpg[/img]

Gotta take some outside pictures of it soon. It is an awesome handling rifle. Just enough heft to settle down nice, but man, it points really nice. Should be a keeper on the elk mountains.

Thanks for the report on the origonal ultra mag

Picking this thread back up! I was wondering if any of you might have some of the original 35 Newton ammo? I need some to complete one of the vintage boxes I have. Let me know if you have any rounds you would like to sell! Also, if anyone has any old Newton caliber boxes I would be interested in buying those also

I recently built a 30 Newton on a HVA action and used some Jameison brass (supplied by the customer)for it. This is much better brass than the Quality Cartridge stuff. I also got some 256 Newton brass from the same source and it also seemed great. GD

Sorry, don't have anything original. I'd like to find one or two of the original cartridges myself.