Assuming a 26" barrel and moly 85-90gr bullets, what kind of speeds could a guy expect? I'd imagine barrel life to be short, but that's a given.

I'm asking because I find myself sitting on a 700 LA donor, a good laminated mag-sporter take-off handle, and a 4.5-14x40LR. Backing up and taking a good look at my hunting conditions, I find that I spend a lot of days each fall/winter looking over pastures and pipline ROW's where shots range out to 400yds or so. Only two of my eight stand locations offer shots at ranges longer than that and I have yet to see a good buck in those far reaches. When a buck comes out, I often have only a few seconds to size him up and shoot. I wait with my rifle in my hands. It can be tough to know if he is at 270yds or 320yds, and while I use an LRF when possible, judging from landmarks will only get you so close. Running a drop chart from JBM on a 90gr E-tip at 3650FPS gives a mid-range rise of 3.0", a 300yd zero, and is only 3.0" low at 350yds. That's pretty dang flat, even if the actual velocity is a bit lower than the number I plugged in. No, it doesn't offer great 600yd+ ballistics, nor does it cheat the wind really well, but it could be a point & shoot rifle at 99% of the game I'm likely to take.

In short, it looks like the newer bullet offerings could offer some fresh advatages to a fast 6mm, especially for shots inside of 400-450yds where impact velocity is still high. Around here, a 200lb whitetail is a big guy, so I'd imagine a stout .244 bullet to be plenty for clean kills. I know they work at closer ranges from the 243win.

Any thoughts? I know this is basically the 257wby concept, just downsized a bit. (.013" to be exact)

Given the barrel life, I would not want to fireform. I would consider a 6-06. I think you would get about 3450 with an 80-85 TTSX and about 100 fps less with the e-tip.

While I doubt barrel life is great, I don't think it to be that ridiculous. How can making 50pcs of fireformed brass be that hard on a barrel? Full-house 25-06 loads could not be much different, and we would not blink an eye at firing 50 rounds through a 257wby. If I could get 800rnds of useful life from a hi-po big game rig like that, I would consider it well worth the cost of the barrel.

I get a bit over 3500 with an 85TSX outa my 6-06 runnin' RL22 and a 26" barrel. I suspect I can run it hotter than that by a little bit, but it is wicked accurate with this load.

Nice thing too is the 87 v-max runs basically in the same group.

I've a few thoughts but don't have the time now will get back to this a bit later..

Short story, I'd be all over it and not worry one bit. Do you need to order a barrel or already have one?

Dober

75 to 100g monos driven at warp speed kill.
I dont see where improving it would matter much at all.
Give you a chance to shoot more.
http://www.fergusonrifles.com/home/

dave

Dave you are absolutely right--I hunted for many years with a good friend who was stuck on the 6mm-06.We had many a great deer an antelope hunt together before his recent passing.He was bound and determined to improve it which he eventually did with not much added performance!!Actual case capacity of the '06 is probably overbore for the 6mm anyway.He had it chronographed and with a 3/4 gr added charge it only netted about 27fps average on five shots.From my experience with my friend it would definitely be a waste of cash!!!! Flem

Don't forget the 240 Wby. My next 6mm will be the 244AI it gets close to the bigger rounds with less bark.

But I am also thinking about a 25-06 AI but can't quite decide if it is worth it over the standard. A slow twist 6mm would be the same if geared for the heavier 100-115 grain bullets.

Hey TJ thanks for your comments--I am and have been a great fan of the 6mm bore--over the years have had a number of 243's and 6mm's.However finally settled on my Ruger #1 6mm as the favorite!! This gun was a one holer right out of the box and over the last 20 years has accounted for numerous deer and antelope.With that strong action and long barrel I think I am able to ring out max performance,so says the ballistics tables.Your AI version should be OK as long as you stay with a longer tube--you probably already know if you build that on a short mountain setup you will probably be right back at normal operating perameters of the standard round.I would go with no less than a 24" tube. In regards to the choice you might be making between the 25/06 IMP and 6mm AI mine would be the latter only because I've taken many deer over the years with both standard versions[used to own a Ruger 77 in 25/06] and had very good results with both!! You're right a little less bark out of the 6 and easier on the pocket book with components. Be talkin at you again I'm sure----Flem

I appreciate the opinions you guys have put forth. I don't yet have a barrel, but I'd be leaning toward a 1-9" twist. The Ackley version caught my attention, as I already have a 25-284, which moves 100's at 3300 to 3350fps.

The one in 9 is what I'd try, my two tubes have both been 10's and they'll shoot the 55's to the 100's very well. To date they won't really perk with the Berger 95's and the 105 or 107's.

I have used the 95 NBT to over 600 on deer though and can't say I want for anything more.

I would AI it more for reducing trimming than I would speed but IMO I'd guess you'd gain another 100-125 fps just like any other AI job.

My first barrel died rather suddenly @ 1700 rounds but it was 1700 rounds very well spendt as most all of that was on game from large to small. I hardly ever shot it at the range once I worked out the initial load and checked the dotz to 600 yds. I shot it fairly hard and hot from time to time on chucks and I pretty much tried to use it only for a short here and there on pds.

It was a real terror on chucks/yotes/lopes and deer. I mainly used the 70 NBT and the 95 NBT and near as I can recall I've never recovered one of them.

This last fall I shot a whitey doe at about 190 yds thru the front of both shoulders. She bounced....and I found the slug just under the skin about to exit. Recovered weight was 50%, and oh yeah it was a 55 NBT...grin

To me the best 6's are a 243 AI in a short action and in the long the 6/06 either AI or non AI'd.

If one was kind to the barrel I'd spect it to last 1700 at the least and 2500 at the top end. Which if one is using those rounds to fill up an ark is one heck of a lot of good stuff.

Bottom line, I'd grab a 4 weight Scheider cut it to 25" and rock on.

I've been around 7 Scheider tubes in 6/06, all 4 weights. Two of them were 12 twists the rest were 10's.

Best of luck to ya!

Dober

About the 70 NBT, between me and my buds we've taken around 50 head of lopes/deer with this round. To date they've all melted on the spot and to date we've never kept in one.

Dober

I knew you had been around a bunch of 6mm-06 rifles, and I appreciate the insight. This one would be a big-game rifle and would likely never see a varmint bullet. The newer 80-90gr stuff seems like it could really make this chambering a strong performer. The 80gr TTSX looks good and the 90gr E-tip has a BC of over .400, which ain't too shabby.

I'm keen on the idea of a low recoil "220 Swift for deer", as that's about what this rig would be.

JP

I'm telling you it will light up your day as well as your the volunteers you point it at...grin

Lately I've been using the combo of 75 VM (can't get the 87's to shoot the way I want) and a 85 TSX.

Dober

JPro; I have nothing to contribute that will help you...I just wanted to share that I'm collecting parts now to have a 6mm-06 built on a LH Model 70. It'll be a deer rifle and I plan to shoot the 80gr TTSX in it, but I also find the 90gr E-tip interesting.
I've got a PacNor SS #1 contour in a 3-groove, 10" twist. It'll have a finished length between 24 and 25 inches, and I went with a #1 to keep it light. I won't be shooting prairiedogs with it, so heat buildup isn't a concern.
As soon as the EDGE gets sent to Redneck, things should start to come together.
I hope you build one, and will be interested in your particulars and results.

Also for deer/lopes/yotes the plain jane 100 Horn is incredibly good as well. Accurate, cost effective and incredibly game capable.

Dober

Mark, seriously,

The 6mm-06 imp or the 270 win for a flat shooting deer rifle?
Will the 6mm do everything the 270 will do?
And more?

What a loaded question..... (grin)

Yeah, it is but if you can get it done with a 6mm-06 with less recoil and a flatter bullet? Why not?

Keep the 25/284 a great short action cartridge and ditch the 25/06 IMP...I think the difference is next to none from a hunting standpoint plus you can keep the overall weight down to a minimum...always wanted to build one of these on a short Rem action but as of yet have had other projects in the hopper!!

Doesn't Barnes offer an 80 grain TTSX for the 25 caliber.

That'd be an easy way 'round the barn in a 25-06.

SU-I'd have no issue hunting deer/lopes the rest of my life with either of them. We've taken so much game at short to long range with the 6 aught that for me it's awfully tough to beat.

For me, I see that I can shoot end to end on deer/lopes with it and if it'll do that then what else do I need?

4 me the best thing I like about a .270 is for a mtn rifle and a elk/deer rifle in something that's fairly lightweight. If I just hunted deer out west I could use a 6/06 no problemo. If I were to be a deer hunter in the east/midwest etc where the shots were closer I could take a good 243 (with a 100 horn rn) and never look back.

Bottom line, I feel that for the most part we use way more round than's needed. Trucks as well and other things I supose also.

Not sure if that answers your Q or not?

I do love my 6/06 that's for sure.

Dober

oh yeah Mark, thanks.

The 243 Catbird come to mind.

http://www.jarrettrifles.com/calibers.html


I do like a little more caliber with large mule deer over 250 lbs though.

IME Bob as long as you get any sort of a decent angle out to 500 yds with 250 lb deer I'd not worry one bit.

Dober

Go for it.

I agree, but, that's just it, "chances" are I won't get the angle I need. For trophy deer I hit them where ever and what ever it takes to anchor them.
Won't have time for a finesse shot.

That's why I was only considering the tougher bullets, even for deer. I'm sure a 95gr BT would be great if I stab it in his lungs, but what about those bad angle shots? If I hunted in open spaces it would likely not matter as much, but around here, he can take 3-4 steps and disappear forever.

A well tuned mono is your friend.


dave

My Dad built a 6mm/06 in '64 and all it is, is a 243 shoulder on a full length 06 case. Has always shot 100 gr. Hornady Inter-locks from the start, shoots flatter than anything we have and has killed more game than anything. Built on a VZ-24 action, 26" barrel, use to use 4831, but is using some old powder he dug up a some gun shop. Barrel errosion was a concern for years, we finally cast the chamber and it looked just fine after 40 years of shooting. Mind you he don't shoot it everyday, but brings it out when a deer of coyote gets out in the middle of his pastures and wants to make a long shot. He's getting up in the years now and his eyes suck, but I wouldn't get in that rifles sites! Its built with a left handed stock, so the cheek piece bites me when I shoot it, so it will not do any us any good when he is gone, so it will be a safe queen. As for fire forming use cases filled with a charge and top with cream of wheat plug with toilet paper and fire form without a bullet!

SU-this is just me and for how I hunt, where I hunt and such. But when ranges get long I either have the time to get the good angles and or I don't shoot. IMO too many things can go wrong for me with my ability with a gun that I don't wanna take anything but a very good angle especially at the longer ranges.

Once again this is just me but as the range gets longer the room for shooter error gets greater and I want precision at long range. Bad angles, hurry up and shooting and not waiting for a decent angle just isn't in my book. But then again I'm one of those who won't shoot at a fleeing animal in the timber when they're on bad angles either. Been my experience that it's easier to hit something that won't get the job done and or will make getting the job done tough and isn't fair to the animal so I won't do it.

But then again that is just me and my way and all gotta go about this in a manner that works for them.

Guess my point is, if I have a good enough angle to shoot with a bigger gun then I have a good enough angle to shoot with my 6/06.

Just my way and you know me well enough to know I'm not dog piling on you my friend.

Dober

I have a .240Gibbs which is pretty much the same as the 6-06AI, only more. The very accurate load was a 70BT@4100. I mention it because this was only a moderate load and the 6-06AI should do that without a problem. Maybe give you some idea about what to expect from heavier stuff.

Addition: Should have also said the barrel is Pacnor 28", 13 twist. This wasn't a wimp load but also not near top end.....4831 powder. The gun now has a 6mmAI Krieger barrel. Used strictly for rockchucks.

My 1st 6/06 tube cut to 25" would do 3950-4K with IMR 4350 and a 70 NBT. My 2nd barrel won't handle near as much..

Dober

A friend built a 240 Gibbs and to fireform the first lot of brass, he made a stub barrel maybe 6 " long and I fireformed brass while he turned the barrel.

Yes it was at night and had to leave in the morning. He always finished everyones rifles before his own.

He loved the Gibbs.

Go for the 6mm-06.

JPro -

I'm having a 6mm AI built right now. I had a 6x.284 a few years back. Both with 1-14" twists.

I was told by the shop that coordinated the 6x.284 that I'd only get about 400 rounds of barrel life but they'd be 400 rounds of pure fun. They got the last part right! But at 800 rounds the barrel was still going strong. I believe I could have gotten another 700 rounds out of it. I was shooting primarily 70 grain b-tips at about 3850.

I expect my new 6mm AI to have barrel life pretty comparable to a .220 Swift assuming similar treatment. I figure it'll be going strong long after I really wish it'd give up so I could chamber it for something else yet.

Take a look at Sierra's latest, or maybe most recent previous, manual. That's the only 6mm Rem AI data I've seen published.

Tom

I have a savag 110 6-06ai with a 22" barrel that gets 4200 with a 70 grain nbt 4831

try the speer 87 grain spbt they are the most accrate from my rifle 3 shots one hole.

I would also look at the 6mm Mach4 to really maximize the concept.
Ross Siegfried built one and wrote about it. I think he got 4,000 fps with the 100gr.

I read that Rocky Gibbs was leery about the 240 but it may just have been due to the powders available then. It was along the lines of pressure excursions like those reported in the 243 but amplified in the Gibbs. Apparently this didn't occur in the 25 or not as much.

Dude. Get real.

Wow at is pretty speedy.

With my 6-284 24" Krieger I get 3805 with 70 BT's. Not an overly hot load but not a lot left on the table.