If you were going to build a hunting rifle using a custom action which one would you use and why. Thinking about putting a .257Roy together and would like to use a custom action.

http://www.defiancemachine.com/
One of the very few that have the primary extraction machined "properly".
dave

borden
I have two and am very happy


gene

+1 on the Bordens,plus some of the BEST custmer service you'll ever get.Skeeter

+1000000000000000000

So Defiance corrected the disaster they had with the Phoenix receivers! I believe he copied the Pierce extraction this time around. Nothing at all wrong about that.I would buy either a Borden or a Pierce. Next in line would be one of Jerry Stiller's.
Butch

I'm a big Mauser fan so I'd look at Prechtl or Hartmann & Weiss. Granite Mountain or Satterlee would also be worthy alternatives.

I had my wife's 250AI on a Borden and it's a very nice action. She wanted a pretty blue stock so it all worked out well. That said I've kinda got a NULA itch and would prolly go that way.

Is weight a concern? That would be one of my first considerations.

I'd say that Borden and pierce have the best fire control systems and can hold there own in extraction and bolt timing with the Defiance actions, I have heard that Defiance has Improved their Extraction surfaces between the bolt and action with a special helix cut into the action, not sure it has any advantage over the Borden and Pierce, Surgeon makes good actions, the LSR and RSR round actions are decent actions but the bolt cycling isn't near as smooth as a Borden IMHO!

McMillan G30
Borden
Defiance

Defiance

Defiance action. Glen & Lisa are excellent to deal with.



Goodluck.

No doubt a Borden!

Stoney, you just about have them all, been wanting to ask your opinions on your Bat VR,PM if you would rather!

The only custom action I have is a Pierce. I have zero complaints. The rifle shoots absolutely fantastic, they delivered on time, and were very easy to work with.

G30's are very nice but very pricey!

Very much agree.

another vote for stiller. i like mine, and the wait time was very short.

Hey Ackley, I have 2 Defiance actions,Surgeon,Bat machine, and did own a Stiller until recently. I'm far from being a 'gunsmith/machinist, though as a customer & "hands on hunter" I'll throw my opinion out there.

1.Bat Machine...machined beautiful, Bench Rest quality(favorite of the BR shooters}. Only downside is the bolt tolerence is machined so perfect it leaves no room to cerekote inside of the action. I had to KG mine & buff the bolt down. I suggest just bead blasting the action. Owner Bruce is a good guy to deal with. (thanks 65BR for selling it. your loss,lol)

2.Surgeon RSR.... machined nicely, super smooth action. Sits on my .243win(most accurate rifle I got (.250 groups) Hard to beat for only $865.00. Downside....side bolt release could be beefed up. Customer service could be better at estimating delivery times.(heard this from many people also).

3.Stiller....buy a rem700, you would be better off.

4.Defiance...machining is superb,action is smooth, and many different designs to choose from. Both rifles(7-08rem-.260rem) shoot way better than I can. Customer service is the best. Usually takes calls all day & delivery date has always been earlier than expected.

So, IMO the 2 best built actions are Bat Machine and Defiance, but I will give the edge to Defiance due to the customer service they offer. I do not believe you could find one complaint torward Defiance, they are very loyal & appreciative. Glen Harrison is a great action builder that stands behind everything he builds.

BAT and surgeon, they are the only actions I know of that offer both an intergral recoil lug and the option of a machined in picatinny rail. to me might as well just use a 700 if the recoil lug isn't machined in.

my BAT action is like a bank vault and I personally don't care for fancy coatings and actually like my bolts left uncoated and polished doesn't hurt. my action has the picatinny rail built in and it came with a bead blast matte finish, which suits me just fine.

I like an action that is stiffer than a 700 this BAT fills that nicely. but man they are pricey actions.

Butch, in all fairness, he only had problems with the $350 cheapies that he was selling sans bolt. His main actions (I got one of the first ones he built under the Phx name) are top notch and properly executed. That said, my buddy and I ordered a Pierce action yesterday.

To answer the OP's question. I suggest you call around see what's available. Pretty much all of them named here are good actions, All of them named here make actions for custom rifle manufacturers and they shoot great.

We bought a Pierce this time around as it met the price point sought and has an outstanding reputation. We tried to buy a Borden but he was 6 months+ out on the action we wanted. I bought my Phoenix action (Defiance now) as I wanted a one piece bolt milled from a single block of steel.

We tried to buy a Surgeon but they kept telling us one thing but when we actually tried to buy an action, they admitted they didn't have one in stock after all!

It is hard to believe that with 10+ custom action builders out there that not ONE of them seems to be able to keep any in stock. Looks like there's room in the market for a few more action building companies to me!

That's the dumbest thing I have read in this whole thread. A properly fitted rail, epoxied and pinned in place and secured with 8-40 screws is going no place and will make the action more rigid. BAT and Surgeon actions with the integral rails are a nice touch, but make up but a small percentage of custom builds out there that are used by F-class, 1000 yd BR and professional marksman world-wide. If it was such a must-have feature, they would have garnered the lion's share of the market!

A Remington 700? Wow! Typically, they have the scope mounting screws drilled out of alignment, threads are not square to the body. The body itself is never perfectly round after heat treat. The bolt fit is major sloppy, the firing pin hole often needs to be bushed, the recoil lugs should be thrown away or surface ground... A Stiller has all of those problems licked.

I've used the following & will give my thoughts:

Stiller Predator = action wasn't square, alot of slop in the bolt, scope base holes were off, & customer service sucked. I'll never use another - like someone said above, I'd use a trued Rem 700 instead!!!!!!!!!

Surgeon 591 = very good machine work, built like a tank, love the intergral picatinney base & recoil lug. A little heavy & takes some time to get after ordering. Would use another in a heart beat!!


Defiance Machine = excellent machine work, perfect fit/finish, customer service is second to none. Loved it some much, I had to get another!!

The Pheonix club!

Defiance and Surgeons intergral bolt handles are a very nice feature on a hunting rifle,and they aren't charging and arm and leg!

We have a few guys on these forums that just have a beef with us. Anytime anyone asks about our products, their same story comes out. We tried to take care of their issues and they obviously were not happy in the end. The trued Rem 700 remark is just rediculous. We have hundreds, maybe even thousands, of satisfied customers including big OEM builders and the US Military that use our actions and are very happy. Our squareness, bolt fit etc are second to none and we set the bar for extraction. Both surfaces are helically made on the CNC 4th axis and match perfectly and are very linear and easy to run. We had this before any of the others were even building actions. We have a dedicated person working customer service and orders and everyone has been complimentary to him. IF anyone ever has an issue, call us, we will fix it or return your money.

PS. All of our new actions have bolts that are one piece too and our prices are either better or in line.

Funny, I have never heard a bad thing about Jerry Stiller's actions. I have 3 or 4 of them and cannot say a bad word about them, other than I wish they had started coating the bolts in predators before I got mine.

BTW Mr. Stiller thank you for sending out a rail that I needed on December 23rd two years ago. When I called I expected to leave info on a voice mail. I was surprised when I got you, and that you took my order, and even more surprised when it arrived on like the 26th. Thanks for the service.

I heard a rummor that you have a big contract to fill, congrats on that. I hope that it is not going to slow down the supply of actions to general public?

Lawton.......

IMO, in the beginning you guys put out some actions that were "kinda sloppy", shall we say.

From what I can tell, QC is much better now, and so is your product....

No issue, all 500 already shipped.

Funny, the negative talk about remington 700 actions with how many long range bench rest competitions they have won and BR matches period.No action has done better over the past 50 years and they have built way more actions than all the customs combined.Alot of precision actions are just 700 clones so I am more willing to give remington some credit...

Really?

What's funny Mr. Stiller is that you are always on several forums such as this one defending your product when someone (you know, us guys with a beef - LOL!!) brings out a problem we had with your action. Of course, its the same old song and dance with you: we are full of it, don't know what we are talking about, & there was really no problem.

Ever wonder why you don't see Glen Harrison, Preston Pritchett, Bruce Thom, and John Pierce on these type of forums defending their products.................because they handle issues without getting on a public forum and telling everyone that one of their customers with a complaint is full of schit & doesn't know what he's talking about!!!

I agree, Remington designed a great action,the guys building the clones are just tightening the tolerances and refining them, IMO most customs are much more consistant platforms to build on than a 700,but I still like my 700's!

how longs the wait for an action?

Braggin or bitchin!

I quess the next question is how long do you usually wait to receive a action. Someone mentioned Borden is 6 months out. Thats almost as long as getting the rifle built.

Some are in stock. Some take 3 to 4 months. Usually somewhere in between.

Defiance is 3 months or sooner.
Surgeon is making a 100ct RSR run in 4-5 weeks.
Pierce is 8 weeks out on S/A repeaters
Bat Machine can be purchased from Bruno supply today.

All these actions are top-notch

Mr Stiller,
Would you have a predator in stock that I could use to build a 257 Weatherby.

12-14 weeks for a Borden.

If your interested in a Borden call Jim sometimes he has one listed on his web site,I waited a little longer than 6 months for my Borden actions, but Jim had just started production,and the price I bought them for made it worth the wait! He is showing an Alpine Mag on his web page that is FS!

Run the Stiller without reservation. I ordered one of their Tac-30 actions for a recent build. Was not particularly impressed with the coating on the action..but didnt care as cerakote was being used regardless. The action functions flawlessly, well worth what I paid for it. And everything was as it was supposed to be. If it were not, I would have received a call from my smith. And Stiller is great to deal with. No complaints there either.

I was at Bruno's monday- he only had one repeater action and it was a 308 bolt face. They tried to sell it to us knowing we were building a magnum. I just couldn't see shelling out $1350 for an action just to open the bolt face or send it in to get a new bolt. Had we been building something with a 308 bolt face, we would have bought that BAT. They are a work of art to say the least.


Nice to hear that Stiller is making a one-piece bolt now.

PTG is making their new bolts I believe!

They always have. We make prints and send them to them that they build to. They are not the same as the Rems and not interchangeable though. Firing pin areas, extraction surfaces and tolerances are all different.

I have had zero problems with either of the two Stiller actions I have. I have a third about ready to be built up. I do agree not a fan of the coating they use but that is a simple fix. You can't please all the people all the time. Lucky for me I am pleased with what I have recieved from Stiller. Might have to buy another soon.

Butch and Jerry will get the call when Im ready to do another full on build as well.

Jetbrook, the action per PM was built off this Defiance which Glen calls it his "sheep action"

Does McMillan inlet for that (looks like a different tang shape to a 700).

Yes they do RD. Mcmillan inlets for all the Defiance actions.

One of the things that led me to the stiller action I ordered was bolt handle design/positioning. Probably the closest to the 700 of any of the other clones. Ergonomics were a big factor in action choice. Not knocking any others, but just throwing something else to be considered out there.

Hmmm, exact opposite of what I heard.

I've got a pair of Stillers and love them. Next for me is a Defiance.

That's a nice handy dandy build!

When I bought my two actions the customer service was outstanding. I had a ton of questions and changed my mind a little way through. No issues at all.

That said I don't think there really is a bad custom action on the market right now. I would have no issue running any of company's mentioned in this thread.

Both of my Predators are very nice and smooth receivers. They are very smooth. My only complaint and it is my opinion only. I wish the lettering on the receiver was smaller and I had rather not have the slab cut. Jerry's is not the only one like that though.
Jerry does not sell an inferior product or he would not have sold more receivers than all of the other US custom makers combined.
Butch

I certainly do not own a lot of custom actions like you guys do..in fact I own only 1, which is a complete build by Jim Borden using one of his actions. The rifle itself is just beautiful and shoots great. HOWEVER...I had Karl bulid me a 25-06 on a Remington 700 action and it is the best shooter I own. Of course Karl did true the action...too bad he is 2 yrs out, but I understand why.

STILLER all day for me never had a problem with them, next up long magnum action for a 264WinMag build!!!!!!!!!! Thanks Jerry for a great product!!!!!!!

The Lawton 7000


A nice M700 clone.True and square where it needs to be..... but a bit,..... "rough".
Dont expect Bat or Defiance jewell type machine work.

I dont have a picture of one to post but a Stolle Panda is just about the slickest nicest piece of machine work that you'll ever find.
......Years ago I called Fred Sinclair as I was concerned about usuing a action made of Aluminum.
He told me that they to....at one time ,were thinking the same thing I was..... And that they had spent quite a bit of time checking out some of Ralph Stolles early,first Pandas.BR actions that had had thousands if not tens of thousands of rounds fired in them.He told me they found no issues with the aluminum at all......

And this.


A Nesika Model G action.
This from the time frame that Glen Harrison was still there.
I gather that there still in business.
http://www.nesika.com/
I called a few weeks ago with a question about a rail.
Never recieved a call back.
I would not bother them again as Mr. Harrison is up and kicken.



dave

I had a Hall G action that I had a couple of builds done on. That sucker locked up like a bank vault.

I'd avoid a Lawton right now......

Fixed it!

Funny- I was surprised at how many Lawton barrels were used in long range shooting based on the 1000 yd BR reports I read recently!

Dennis,
After Barney passed away things have gone to s#$t over at Lawton.
Butch

Thats what I heard too.

Too bad. I had also heard something like that but then I saw all those Lawton barrels in the match results???

I was at Kelbly's a while back and got to handle their 700 clone called the Atlas. It seemed to be very well machined and slick running action. Just wondered if anyone had used one on a build?
Cash

Where might that be???

I have a Stiller Predator that I really like.

Here is my honest opinion on custom actions, it is a ford chevy thing, all of them are pretty good. I have four, maybe more lawtons, very servicable, but the bolts seem to rust for some reason if not ceracoated. I have three older nesikas, no complaints, very nice. I have five BATs, best feeling actions I have ever felt, tolerances are a little close in some models for hunting, but the repeaters are great. I have owned at least 3 of the Kelbly actions, all were nice. I am still kicking myself for parting with my swindelhurst. I owned one Borden, very nice about like the nesikas. I have a couple of the pheonix actions, pre runners to the defiance actions, all are great. I suspect the defiance actions are way better, but have not had the pleasure yet. I have three of the Stiller predators and have owned a couple other models, all were great. The older stillers bolts felt a little tight, but the later ones whether it be coating or machine practices are fairly slick. I have yet to find a custom action that I thought was a significant step up in accuracy from a trued up remington, but think when resale is considered trued up remingtons are not feasible unless you can do the work yourself. I have a bunch of experiance shooting custom actions and a little bit building rifles out of them take it for what it is, just opinion. I cannot not say much bad about any of them.....but oh those BATs freakin get to me....love em.

I will say if a Bat feels better than a Borden then they must be incredible smooth!

Nothing compares to a Bat machine action. Must be willing to fork out the cash though.

700 footprint actions I can recommend:

-Borden
-Stiller
-Kelby's Atlas

Yep. The last two I saw were pretty grim. Bolt timing, cocking and f.p. travel all were serious issues. -Al

Not counting the money that's come in and no product that's went out....

Click on the Lawton tab at the top:

http://www.rimfiremagic.co.uk/

just a novice asking a stupid question that I could probably look up myself but do any of these guys make these actions in lefty? I did check out MRC and the price of their standard action is on par with what a donor M70 seems to cost and if one were going to put a new barrel on it anyways... just learning and hoping to maybe build a cool custom bolt action one day.

Most of the custom actions are available in a LH version.

It is really easy to mirror image a RH action on modern CNC machines.

I believe that there is a Left hand Stiller action and a MRC in the classifieds.

thanks nsaqam... that is what I expect... though I suppose they make few to none for stock...not that I am in a hurry.

MCH, I saw the MRC, but I was not interest in 30-06 or the stock really and just an action from MRC was much cheaper. I did also see the stiller but knew little or nothing of its value... still learning on bolt guns... in hindsight, I might have been interested... oh well... always another one down the line

I wish that Stiller was a righty I would have bought it. I was thinking about building another MRC this time in .375Ruger. Might be the next project.

Is the Kelby Atlas ONLY a single shot?

No, they are available as a repeater. Here's a link to them. Scroll to the bottom of the page and you'll see the Atlas and the various options.

http://www.kelbly.com/actions.html

Hope this helps. -Al

Ok thanks!!!!!!