Ran across a friend that has a 1909 Argentine Mauser action that is in fantastic shape. He will let me have it for $200. I am wondering if I would be better off going this route to get my 9.3x62mm Mauser rifle?

The cool factor would be very high as would the cost. Lotsa mods to do. That being said if you can swing it and want it, I'd be the last to say no way. Have done the full custom route and tis fun.

The Ruger is ready built 'cept for the few changes we discussed.

Very true! 1909 has cooooool factor, have two of them that I a doing builds on.

I have had M70's since the 50's and a few others as well like a P17, 99's and recently a 1909 Argentine that someone spent big bucks on. The stock alone on it makes it the nicest sporter that I have.

While there is a small cool factor in looking at "DWM" on the side of an action the M70's are better in every way for me.

I came across this 'Argy' near the end of my rifle life. Its just as well as they are no big deal.

Let someone else convert one and IF it comes out right buy it cheap. I was lucky the action choice thing turned out the way it did for me. To put it another way I am really glad I don't have a safe full of or a battery of 1909's. I am really glad they are pre 64 M70's.

The 1909

A 9.3X62. needs to built on a M98! It just fits it's history. I built my custom 9.3X62 with a 1909 Argentine action. If feeds smooth and solid. The majority of my rifles are built on Mauser actions.

If it's all original ( no holes drilled and the original bottom metal) it sounds like a good deal.

Terry

Yep. Just something about the metal/heat treating and overall feel that no modern factory rifle can duplicate. About the best I can say is the "snicks" and "clunks" from metal to metal on a 1909 are mucho different than a new Ruger or any Remchester.

You may think I'm daft, but I don't think so.

Now this is where we disagree. I find the old Mauser actions to be soft and to have a heavier bolt lift when the pin is down for instance. I just don't like how they are more difficult to move the bolt back the forth either.

What seems to be harder steel that the M70's have been made from works so quick and easy for me. Those mausers need a bolt to be welded on too.

To each his own.

Besides they were only made in ww 2 germany and the Winchesters were made right here in the United States of America!

Yeah, you must be right. Guess that's the reason most every bolt action on the planet is based off PPM's design. He must've be a 'tard. Oh wait...............

My 9.3X62 is a Husqvarna built on an FN commercial 98 action. I think it works well but I would like to have one of the Rugers too! The 1909 I think would make a great one as well!

Bob

I have had two mint '09 for some years just tearing at me to get on with them.

As Wayne & Garth used to say, "scha-WING"!

A 9,3x62 in an Argentine '09, no matter what the realists may say re: cost, has gravitas in spades.

You might just as well send me one. No sense letting them sit around and get moldy and dusty and stuff like that there.

... everybody funny, now you funny too.

Who would you send it too for barreling and addition of sights?

Oh, Yeah! Karnis I agree with you.....if you got it, toss the money at the Argentine.Once you had a finely finished Mauser,some other stuff feels like rubble.

http://www.mccabeguns.com/

I would send it to Mike McCabe if it were mine.

Bob

I would agree but also might look at having the action heat treated. I had a 1909 done by PacMet and I think it adds strength to the action.


ddj

I just spent some time handling various bolt action rifles. I worked the bolts, dry fired them and worked them again from the shoulder. All of them were very good.

When I am getting ready to go hunting I might take a different rifle each time. Many times its a Kimber as well. The variety of it is interesting. I go hunting for a few hours a day about three or more times a week.

I like all of the rifles!

Right now a pet is the Brno 21h that has a M70 type safety on it. Those are a small ring action as you know.

But they are all good. Of them the DWM 1909 mauser is the slowest to work. It seems its metal is soft and it drags some as compared to the others.

If I were to pick any action to have an fine custom built for hunting it might be one of those Brno 21h's or 22f actions. They have that stippled receiver ring and others have double square bridges.

The thing is that its natural for someone who has had mechanical experience to get a rifle and keep it going. Those old 'pre' factory rifles were made to use by us.

I have two actions with Mike as I type. He is reworking a commercial Mauser in .300H&H and is building a .350 Rigby on a.......


wait for it.....




1909!

I have another 1909 that will be a switch barrel and Mike will be doing it as well.

1909?

They suck.

Gunner

i thought You liked mine Karnis

I do. Funny thing is I sold a 1909 awhile back because I was never going to have it converted. Member on the board turned into one of the nicest Mausers I've ever laid eyes on. Fantastic rig.

But, 1909's suck. So says Mr. Sahvaaahge............

I have also located a Brno in 8x57 that I could have rebored to 9.3x62 and would have a very fine gun. It would be period correct with the old scope in claw mounts

Obviously he taint had the pleasure of workin' one 'eh?

Gunner

Here's the rig I was talking about. Yeah. That sucks huh?

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth..._Fence_post_pics_or_any_post#Post5935814

, bettin' you needed a bucket of anti-nauseum likquid when you first laid eyes on dat, dang thats nice.

Gunner

Yep. Anti-Linda Blair juice.

Gunner

After heat treating two mauser actions I'll never do it again.

Terry

TC1, I've also heard and read it wasnt necessary in some instances, dont know if my '09 7X57 is or not.

Gunner

Heat treating is the best way I know of to give a Mauser action a gritty feel. I got one done that was smooth as glass before heat treating, when I got it back the bolt lift and cycling had a notchy (made up word) feel. The next one I got done was also smooth before it went and the bolt would bind after it was returned.

All this can be avoided by not heat treating it. Most are fine without it. Even the 1909's.

Terry

Thanks Terry, mines glass, so it must not be, although i run her a little warm with the 175 Speer GS's, i have noticed no lug set-back.

Gunner

My 1909 9.3X62 has about 500 rounds down the barrel and a hundred years worth of 7.65 Argentines. So far it seems up to the task. I do try not to push ithe pressure real hard though and stop were the loading manual say's to. I personally think that's the secret to it is not abusing it. A few extra grains of powder is worth nothing in the field.


Terry

Gunner

Kind of the same way I treat my older Savage 99's also. If I feel the need to push [bleep] I'll use a different action.

I've seen 09's worked and screwed to 308 Winchester and 300 Win Mag barrels, so how does this action harness these much higher pressure rounds?

Gunner

Lug setback is always a possibility. As I said, there are better mousetraps for pushing the envelope in.

I see, thanks Steelie.

Gunner

Most guys ain't likely burning a 1000 rounds of 300 Win mag through their Argentine Mauser.

Agreed, but i have seen cats spend many thousands of dollars on high end custom rifles with this action.

Gunner

Yep, and again, how much do they SHOOT them. A fool and his money, well you know the rest.

They are what they are, period. No need in making them more.

Thats has been the puzzling part for me, "expensive custom, use sparingly"

But I see what your sayin,

Gunner

You don't have to use it sparingly, you just don't need to abuse it. There is a huge difference in the two. People have high end custom rifles built on these because they are fantastic actions that will outlast the owners.

Yes TC1, but would factory 308W and 300 magnum ammunition be considered abusive, if not, then I'm good, my 7X57 loads are light years below those two.

Gunner

The original reason 1909's got used for a lot of custom rifles was the hinged floorplate. They're generally nicely made actions, for a military 98, but other than the hinged floorplate there's nothing special about them.

In way they're kind of the Parker shotgun of 98 military actions. Parkers are good guns, though not any better than some others, and not as good as others. By now, however, nothing will ever change their golden reputation--or the $$$ spent on them by true believers.

Thanks JB, I know for certain I'll never purposely set out to sell mine.

Gunner

I have heard of guys selling the floorplates and triggerguards
on EBAY for pretty good money.

No chit, and those salvage buzzards are wreckin' pre-64's too.

Gunner

And Krags, and Arisakas, and........

Show nuff neighbor

Gunner

Yes, Mule Deer is correct. What many fail to realize is that the popularity of the mauser action spawned in the '50s and '60s is because they were cheap- a dime a dozen back then, remember they're mil-surp. At the time nobody in their right mind would have taken apart a Mod 70. There was no reason to as they were pretty accurate for the time and they were already "configured" as a hunting rifle. The Argentines had one less thing you had to spend your money on to bring it up to the same "specs" as a Mod 70.

T'aint nothing wrong with a '98, but I prefer a Mod 70.

I have seen two 1909s in 30-06 for sale in the past week
or so, both rechambered 7.65 barrels.

Most people that choose to use 1909's for custom rifles (true believers) do so with the knowledge that it has better machining, fit and finish than many M98 actions. The same goes for Oberndorfs. It's not just the floorplate. Of course some will never be able to comprehend this.

I've spent far more getting a commercial Mauser action up to snuff than I ever have getting a true M98 like I wanted it.



Terry

Terry,

That is beautiful!

Very Nice!!! Terry, whats it chambered for?

Gunner

I was damn close to sending one of mine to Roger Green for a lean Mannlicher 8x57 build. Had a blank chosen, PacNor set with a 20" barrel and I have all the rest of the parts needed. May still for a retirement gift to me.

9.3X62

Lordy Mercy how much more perfect could a cartridge/action combination be SWEET

Gunner

Tony, You wont be sorry, I do not know who did the work on mine [7X57] but it has an amazing feel of quality and dependability when you work the action.

I'm guessing the barrel is a Douglas, as this is an older build.


Treat Yourself to a custom Tony, I'm sure You more than deserve it.

Gunner

It's a pretty neat rifle.


Terry

I i c ant tipe, droool shortin out keypad

Seriously that is Superb!! Sir

Gunner

Wow!! That is beauty in metal form!!


ddj

Terry,

You have beautiful rifles! Congrats Sir!


ddj

Well I may have found another neat way to go about the 9.3x62 journey. I have located a Brno 22F in 8x57 for a good price. I can have it rebored by JES for $225 and come out cheaper than the 1909 route. It won't be a full blown custom but it will be what I want, I think. Might have to alter the bolt handle but I will try it with Warne medium QDs for now with a Minox 1.5-8x32 scope from Doug.

Sounds like a winner to me!

One day I hope to have a stock like the one the Dressels did for yours on it!

Yes, I know the feeling. I have a few customs.

I tend to agree with JB. There is nothing really special about the Argentines, that is until you put it next to a VZ24 or a Daley. Now lay the Argentine next to an Oberndorf and see a difference. Now I am talking about the German Built Argentines, not the FMAP Argentines. One of the few faults of the great 98 is that it was designed with the gas ports in the bolt facing the left raceway. Not the best way to do it even with the flanged bolt shroud. Ruger 77's face the ports down into the magazine and still have the flanged shroud. Finn always prefered the Mauser and so do I for most of the same reasons. Yet for the dollar spent any newer factory rifle is a better investment than any military conversion. Then again, investments are for bankers and 98's are for Loonies.

Ended up buying a half stock Brno instead of the Mannlicher:


JES will be reboring to 9.3x62 and I will send the stock off to Karnis for some work. Might change out the bolt handle to a regular straight down with a teardrop style. It has been D&T with 3 holes so hopefully I can have another hole added to put on the Talley bases for their QD rings. I will either go with a Leupold 2-7x33 or the Minox 1.5-8 depending on how much cash is left.

why stop at the 62. Why not move up a couple of mm to the 64.

If a 286gr 9.3mm at 62 velocities can't do it you might need a bigger bullet. This is to be my one rifle/cartridge for everything from Coyotes to Pachyderms. I plan to use it constantly until it is an extension of me and hopefully take it to Alaska and Africa.

My .280 Rem. custom is on a 1909 Mauser by DWM. My custom 7x57 is on a commercial FN action and my .35 Whelen is someone's custom from the mid 1930's and is on elk killing S.O.B. It happens to fit me like a glove.Current Mauser project is a Husqvaran 640 barreled action in 30-06. I haven't decided whether to leave it in 06 or go for something else. The only other action that was slighter slicker than that Husky was a 1903 M/S in 6.5x54. I prefer Mausers. I never had much use for the Pre-64 M70. I feel it's just a bit over rated. JMHO and as Elmer Keith once said, "I prefer to let every man scratch his own fleas in whatever manner he chooses."
Paul B.

I missed this thread 6 years ago, but I concur with this ^^^. So much so I have a 9.3x64 Brenneke on a .... drum roll please .... 1909

Karnis,

I never said the 1909 was defective. I only said that I have those rifles and I tried them and that I prefer that 'harder metal' feel of the CZ's, That their bolt is easier to lift and cycle for me.

Now this is where we disagree. I find the old Mauser actions to be soft and to have a heavier bolt lift when the pin is down for instance. I just don't like how they are more difficult to move the bolt back the forth either.

What seems to be harder steel that the M70's have been made from works so quick and easy for me.

Karnis hasn’t posted for 4 years. Even still, compared to Don his 4 years of no posts are priceless

I don't know if he would talk to you over the phone or not, but if he would, David Miller might be a guy to talk to about what he thinks about 1909 Actions. He has built and I think will still build very high end rifles on 1909 actions. I believe the Elephant rifle in .458 Win Mag was built on a 1909 Action and was sold for $41,000 many years ago. I know that Jim Carmichael has a 1909 in .338 from David Miller that he has used all around the world and has written about it quite a bit. I am sure that there are probably hundreds of high end David Miller Rifles built on 1909 Argentine Mauser actions. He might know how many came back with problems.

Guess what. Jim still has it.

Jim said every buff he shot with the 338 stopped in it's tracks. One from several years ago.

This is it:

22WRF
You might be surprised to know how few rifles are produced by David Miller’s shop or that of any other top maker. Most bespoke builders finish fewer than 12 a year. Of those, most are not shot much.

You are right!

I am not surprised. However, David Miller has been building Rifles since either the very late 70s or the very early 80s, Before the Model 70 Classics came out (which I believe he helped design) he did most of his work with Mauser's and Model 70s, His sales literature advertises using 1909 Argentine Actions and I believe he used a few g.33/40 actions as well as Pre 64 actions. Maybe there aren't 150 Miller 1909s out there, but there are quite a few.

Another guy that has used 1909s in the past is Mr. Wiebe. He has used them for some pretty big boomers. I wonder how many he has had come back with problems? One could certainly ask.


(Mr. Lambert. Thank you for posting the photos of Mr. Carmichael's Miller Rifle. that one looks like he used the original 1909 bottom metal instead of Ted Blackburn's bottom metal. beautiful rifle! )