Ok, so it's cold wet, windy etc here and I can't go chase bruins so I'm at home working and hanging at the Fire.

I have a 70 WSM that I'm thinking about rebarreling. Thinking here (scarry I know) but am thinking about a barrel twisted for the newer 165/170's etc.

Anyone from Fire land done anything like this as of yet?

Many thx

Dober

Being as how it's a WSM, it can't really be fixed. Won't hold a Newton
I have to say, it's hard to see the point. Who is making these bullets; whats the configuration, and how much twist is recommended? GD

Well, it's my dream so I don't exactly expect you to see the point... I take that by making that comment that you know what my reasoning is for it right...? Tha'd be kind of cool cause many times I surely don't...

A bullet called the Matrix, and I hear that Sierra's making a 170 I think it is.

I'm not a gunsmith but I'm not exactly new to shooting. If I was doing this to be practical I wouldn't. I'd use an 06 or a .270 and roll on as it's my opinion that if practical is one's gig then that's the best way to go. I've used them both a ton, just like to mess with other things as well. Hence why I use the 6/06, 7 Mashburn Super and the 338 WSM etc..

So have you worked with a quick twist 270 WSM and have something to add?

Thx

Dober

Hey, I'm messin' with ya. I'm just wondering what the length on those bullets might be. A sierra 170, configured like the typical Matchking, might stabilize in a ten and would certainly do so in a nine. You have to figure, that 170 Sierra would have to be similar in length and shape to the 175 7mm from the same maker. Performance would be similar (if not identical) to a 7 WSM with a 175. What configuration are you figuring on for the rifle (barrel length and weight)? I'm just curious because I like to see this sort of experimentation. I mean, we know what bullets of this length and BC work like in a 7mm or a 6.5. Always interesting to see what happens when you split the difference. Not interesting enough for me to buy a barrel and do it, mind you! GD

1:8", 23", .6" at the muzzle. Those 165 Matrixes are awesome, and Berger is bringing out a 170 VLD soon. I can't see a reason not to, that would be nirvana.

Have you seen the 180 Sierra yet Tanner? I want a bit more than .6 at the mzl this time. Probably want to go a bit more pipe than what the factory 70 tube has on it.

I would go 23" Tanner, and it'll go in my Hunter Edge compact handle.

May be one heck of a long range chuck and yote rig eh...grin?

Dober

The 165's will stabilize in a 10" twist, but I'd go 8.5" twist to stabilize the 170g Berger and 175gr Matrix.

Jord, I've seen that Berger recommends an 8 for their 170 but an 8.5" would do it in my mind too.

I don't think Sierra is making any LR 270 pills, dang fools... grin

Methinks it'd probably be my new favorite Campfire rig, stuffed in an Edge with a 3-20 with M1s or Target Turrets in Talleys up top. I'll call dibs on it right now!

Jordan you say that the 10 will handle the 165', I'm a bit skeptical that they will. Should try them in my 9 twist .270 that I have now. But you say that it will, I take that to mean that you've actually tried it right?

Tanner, I think I'd go 8 or 8.5 as well.

Tanner, what powder did you run with the 165's? I'd think that 22 or 7828 could do allright, maybe 25?

Dober

Seems to me that the 165s are doing just fine stability wise here at 7300', so far.

I think an 8" would be just fine, from 140s all the way up to the big sleeks ones!

I've run Retumbo, but I'm thinking that '25 or 7828 would kick butt too. '22 seems a bit fast for this bullet, but it's always worth a poke or two through the chrony!

Heck, even the 140s beat the heck out of the 1,000yd steel out of my 270ShortDog... grin

Thx Tanner, do you know what the BC is of the 165's?

270 Short Dog I likey that!

Dober

I know a couple doods that have the BC of the 165s worked out to be right at .650. Pretty gosh dang slick!

270ShortDog kinda' rolls off the tongue don't it?

I have thought about doing this as well Mark. Back when the Wildcat bullets were made in Canada I thought about a 270 WSM built around their 169.5 ULD bullet. I think you are right on the twist needed.
I have a 270 Allen Mag and it is built on a 9 twist Lilja and it spins them a wee bit faster than the 270 WSM.
I think this is a better project than the 6.5 WSM. I working with one of those right and it has been an excercise in frustration to this point.

No, sir. I haven't played with that bullet, myself. But I've read several reports of guys stabilizing the 165 in 10" twists from 500 feet ASL, to over 6000 feet. Marshall at Matrix also told me that they'd do fine in a 10" twist barrel. A 9" twist would give you a little wiggle room in the cold winter temps at low elevations, though.

The 175 requires an 8.5" twist, as told to me by Marshall, and I'm thinkin that would spin up the 170 Berger alright, as well.

Dober, I'm sure you've given it the full thought, but I'd be curious to know how much COAL that M70 box will handle? If I recall right, I think I've got mine seated at around 2.920", and that's just a skosh off the lands as my BigSky has a pretty short throat.

Thx Jordan, good to hear that it's being done.

Tanner, yeah that crept into my mind. Too many choices, I may just put the "Fat Bastard" (338 WSM) barrel back on it and turn it into a timber rig as that barrels a shooter.

Many thx for all the toughts.

Dober

Heck with the Fat Bastard, Short Dog needs a shot!

Maybe if you order up a tube you'll have it just in time as the FB spout will be shot out? grin

I also have my new 270 tube on my G33 with a 9 twist that needs a shot, so to speak...grin

Dober

Let me know if you want to try the 175s and not order a whole box. I've got some to send you and Bob.

Mark bob beck and I have been discussing the 270 170eol lately. I would run 1:8.5 for sure. This bullet is going to be amazing for the 270.

Mark, we have been shooting the 165 matrix in 10 twist barrels out of the 270 WSM at 5000 ft up and have had excellent accuracy and no stability issues. I am going to have Brux cut me a 9 twist .270 for my next 270 WSM build(170 Berger should be sweet).
We are using Wyatt extended mag boxes in rem 700,s max coal is 2.995 and it is working great with the 165 matrix. We are using a b.c. of .650 at 2965fps and drops have been on to 1000 yds.

Thx Nieko good stuff.

How long of barrels and what are you using for gas?

Dober

Excellent! Go get 'em nieko....

Where's all the anti 270 pablum from the 6.5 and 7mm guys now?.....LOL!

Buehler? Buehler? Ferris Buehler? Anyone?.................................. Anyone?......

It was always about twist and bullets.

Bob,

I love 7mm bullets. I always have and always will.

That said, a good chambering is about much more than just bullet diameter. Like you said- twist and bullets matter.

A rifle chambering is really just twist, bullets, and a powder charge. The shape and name of the cartridge means little compared to these three factors. Fast twist, high-BC, high-quality bullets of good construction, and a reasonably sized powder charge is what makes a great LR cartridge. The rifle might also have something to do with it

As might the nut behind the butt (stock)...

Dober

I say 1:8.5" 270 Short Dog, 165 Matrixes, Retumbo and never look back once!

Jordan: Agreed...which has been the point of the "discussions" I've had on here about 270 caliber rifles.The "notion" that a 270 bore is somehow "inferior" to 6.5 or 7mm is really about bullets and twist....

Lotsa bright bulbs on here;if I can figure this out with my limited knowledge, I don't know why some others can't....I suspect a lot of them just repeat ad nauseum what they hear,without thinkin' it through.

The logic goes like this: if a 6.5 is "good",and a 7mm is "good"....how can something almost square in between them "suck"?

Well, there has to be a reason,and it's bullets and twists.You have run the numbers....you know.

And Dober is right,too. Tanner figured it out.

This thread is going to cost me some money!

I think Rick Bin was running the 165s at 2800fps out of his standard 270 Winchester. Looking back on my 270WSM experience, I'd probably just roll 270 Win if starting over. The brass is easier to work with, the recoil is far more tame (not that the WSM is harsh by any means), and feeding is impeccable. If a 270 Ackley was more popular, I seriously think that round would be the cat's ass. A .270-280 Ackley would be cool too... only because I really think that .277" bullets have panache... I love 7mm too... grin

Tanner-how's the feeding on the WSM for you?

On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being model perfecto.

Dober

I can't get it to jam, but its not as slick or fast as say a 375 or 280 Rem, and certainly not my '52 M70 300 Ack! So I'd give it an 8, but haven't had a failure to date unless the bolt is short stroked.

Dober out of my Sako's my 270 WSM feeds the best. I was shooting yesterday and thought that it feeds so well that I should probaly buy one in 300 WSM....

Dink

You guys are killing me. I might have to keep my 270 WSM Montana after all...

With the matrix and when Berger gets online with their new pill the 270 will finally have some validity ;-)

Might even push some pill makers to get out the heavier 6.5 designs again.

Dober,

I realize you're busy with work and all... but maybe you better hurry up with this new project. I've always been a "short dog" fan and am curious how this thing turns out.

Easy cheesecake... The 270 win and 270 wsm are two different genetics. Kinda like saying Dachshunds and Rottweilers are the same.
'member how we sliced it last time.. the 6.5-06 trumps the 270 win. ;-)

Mark, we are using 24 inch barrels, H1000, Fed 215's, win brass

Ric, I know the WSM has quite the advantage velocity wise when running pretty much any pill, but if the 270Win can run the 165s at 2800 out of a 24" tube, that seems to be pretty darn good performance. That beats my 162 Amax/280 Rem load! But yeah... the ShortDoggy is just more of a good thing... grin

It doesn't beat my 162AM/.280 Rem load...

OK, Muffin!

I think Jordan did the math with the Berger and IIRC...we can ask him again what the numbers were....we seem to forget the Matrix is 25 gr heavier than the 140 in the 6.5,on the same case.I would expect the 140 to therefore go faster....


We can hedge speed and a lighter bullet;or bullet weight,which is what seperates the 6.5's from the 7mm's (of which the 270 is one...)


Logic, no?

Yeah, well... You're crazy man

Go long and do a 270-25 Niedner

That'd be a good combo, 2800 to 2850 would be awfully nice.

Dober

2850 is a good place to be also w/a 150 BT/270WCF, of course optimum powders can push that up a bit, so I hear.

160-162s at 2860 is where I ran my first RM. Never needed more.

Rigby's are not too far away from that # either btw.

Yep! Mine does 2820 and kicks butt.

Logic yes. reality no.

270's got 2 bullets from the same maker (for now) that's it.

I all honesty I'm hoping this new 270 surge will prompt the bullets guys to design a bit heavier and higher BC 6.5's

Sierra's got a 155 with only a claimed .570 BC. Hornady has a 160 RN.. that's about it.

Isn't there a 170 Berger coming?

Isn't there a 170 Berger coming? [/quote]

Yep- 170gr EOL hybrid hunting bullet BC.703

Thanks

I could care less bout the arguments made for either side, all I really see is good, high BC pills at 2950-3000. Bullet diameters don't mean a whole lot to me when the BCs are the same, in my eyes.

So what would happen if you had an improved reamer made for the 270 Win with a shorter neck and throated a bit more to touch lands with the 165's and it would also completely clean up an existing 270 chamber? Stuff the lands and your off to the races.... No?

W

Woof, couldn't you in theory run in a 280 A.I. reamer for the shoulder?

Not unless it had no neck. Wanted the shoulder farther forward with a shorter neck to clean up any existing chamber without barrel removal

W

It'd be cool to see a 35 or 40 degree shoulder, but I see your idea. That would be sweet, get a bit more velocity for sure, maybe less case stretch?

Yup. Be a stretch for the 130's but those dont work anyway...

W

165s are the bees knees. I'll go halves on a reamer, barrels, and dies!

Deal! I'll go halves on bullets and powder

W

I've got a LA 700 DBM that could use a 24" stainless #2 in 270 Woofer... grin

Speaking of the 165's I looked up their website to make an order. Shipping is ouch at $20 unless you order several boxes. Anyone want to split shipping on an order and then just flat rate box them to the other person(s)? I want to give them a try but not commit to serveral boxes to make it worthwhile to cover shipping costs.

I drew a good elk tag as well as antelope this year and have a couple of 270 weatherbys that are really wanting to run this bullet.

How many are you wanting to go in on?

Isn't that a 270 Gibbs?

Just found 3 Gibbs prints with 3 different sets of numbers... Ouch

W

I would like to keep it as small amount as possible to give them a try but 2 boxes is probably ideal for now for my side of it. I could be flexible though. If we had three people or more that would make it even better. If someone had a box they would want to sell I wouldn't be opposed to that either.

I would be in for a box...

W

I'd do a box or two.

I just picked up a used 270 Weatherby Mark V Deluxe this week with a 26" barrel. Looks like it was ridden hard and put away wet, but as long as it shoots all is well. Matrix said my 1 in 10" twist would stabilize their 165g bullets (B.C .7318) no sweat. I figure a 165 Matrix at 3100 fps would be kinda sweet. Putting an order in ...

Let us know how that goes Colorado. The weatherby has the gas to push em fast.