I have a Remington 223 ackley factory barrel sporter barrel that's cut to 21 inches. I'm trying to decide to go with the mcswirly or the edge but can't make my mind up. What would you guys do and why?

Don't care for painted stocks, I like the McSwirl.

Order one of each. I did!!!


Roy

I'd go edge on that rifle all day long

There you go - 3 responses, 3 different answere

Can Mcmillan do 1/2 Edge-1/2 McSwirl?

EDGE for me every time.

Especially with a short barreled LW rifle.

Edge stocks don't have to be painted

+1 edge.

I'd do an Edge with your setup.

Generally speaking the same stock will be 7-8 oz lighter in the edge fill.

So the question now is "what are you gonna do?"

I sold all my painted and/or Edges...I don't like paint, so it's swirl for me.

Depending on model, and who/how they're made that day, the differences can be minor.

I currently have 3 mcswirlys my next build is getting a edge.

Funny, I sold all my swirlies.

I have drank the swirl cool aid and appreciate the textured paint. Rick said its tough as wood pecker lips. Lol.

[bleep] a!

21 inch sporter contour .223AI is screaming for an Edge fill stock.......

You guys arent making my decision any easier hah. The rifle is my pickup/coyote calling rifle when I decide not to take the 220 swift on stand.

This showed up today. Action is off getting a new barrel. 223AI



Remington mountain rifle. 50/50 black orange with 1/2" decelerator.

Homo's hunt with Edge.

OUCH!!

No, Homo's sit home and polish their McSwirly.

John, Least I have someone to polish it.

Sweet!
My next EDGE is going to be a bondo patch.
Wonder how much weight the lack of paint saves?

I can let you know in a month or so......

Sounds great Aalf.

SWEET! They nailed that swirl!

No matter how much it's polished, it won't be as stiff as my Edge.

Don't spec bondo, spec clear/gel coat.. I can't see any weight savings, but the F1 carbon fiber just looks bad ass.

Good to know RL.

And yes, the carbon fiber does look bad ass.

Homo sapiens?

What barrel maker and contour did you go with?

EDGE all the way.
The edge has a performance benefit of increased stiffness and decreased weight.
If the swirlie crowd is buying them based on perceived aesthetics, they still have no argument... and they should probably turn in their man card.

Absolutely! Not even a doubt to me.

Dober

Or, what I would do, one of Bansner's. Just haven't got around to it.

Bansner is nice as well, especially if one prefers the fuller chunky kind of feel. But it'll weigh another 5 oz or so as well.

That said, I can like them both a ton and it don't matter to me which one just give me one and I'll light the torch!

Dober

Shilen #2 1-8" twist. Should have .5" exposed shank and finish at 22

I'd do the Edge. I can't see putting up with 1/2 lb. more weight just to have some goofy swirl gel coat job. If we're talking a .375 H&H or .416 remington that needs the weight then that's another story, but on a light .223 I'll take the lighter weight every time. If you've gotta have some goofy pattern on your stock then take it down to the guy who airbrushes T-shirts at your local mall and tell him to have at it.

I'd go with the Edge.

I've a 22" factory sporter .223AI in a mcswirly (compact). Balance is good and scoped it comes in a little less than 8 lbs. A remington sporter contour with a bore for a .223 isn't a "light" contour...considering weight/balance, it's a magnum(+) contour.

...go with a mcswirly on this one and then do the same build with a mt contour and edge next...

Edge stocks are not as solid as standard fill. Most respected smiths I've talked to shy away from it. I had a situation that definitely gave me reason to doubt in them. Edge is a slam dunk only if you intend to weigh your rifle and not use it.

Where did you come up with that info?

I'll borrow this pic of a Manners light fill. The fill material (the white colored fill) used in the Edge and in Manner's lighter stocks is not as solid as that in standard fills. Manners acknowledges this and at least uses the more solid, durable fill in critical areas (the gray colored fill material).

I found a bubble in the paint of my most recent edge. After I removed the paint I didn't like what I found. I made several calls to men who bed these stocks day in and day out and found out that this was not unusual and the reason they all preferred standard fill.


Manners with standard fill in critical areas:




My last Edge, around the rear action screw pillar. I believe Manners is using their heavy fill behind the rear action screw, the same place where I have a void. It doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling.

EDGE isn't merely a fill material it is a complete package of fill material and shell construction.
All of my EDGE stocks have been every bit as stiff and solid as my standard construction McMillans have been.
No more standard construction McMillans for me ever.
But then my tolerance for recoil stops at the .300WSM/.300WM level.

thanks for the laugh..

Here's something else to chew on:

Send it back to McMillan and they'll fix it.

Or keep it and complain.

Your choice.

Toad, did you see the pics?

Looks like you prefer the second option.

TFF!!

nsaqam, please show me where I complained? I fixed it myself. I called around to guys who see more in a week than I do in years and was told its not unusual for edge fills but highly unusual in standard fills.

Dude, you are dreaming. I have never complained. Only reported facts.

You've been complaining about the void this entire thread.
Why'd you fix it yourself when McMillan would've done it for free?

In your sample of one?

That's certainly conclusive.

nsaqam

1 - please quote where I complained

2 - I fixed it because I can, and it was a lot less hassle than sending it back.

3 - you are absolutely correct. My sample of one was not enough. Thats why I made calls to guys (reputable gunsmiths) who see a lot more than me. All three that I talked to preferred standard fill because of experiencing similar issues with the Edge fill.

4 - What do you make of George's post that I quoted above? In regards to Manners, even standard fill in critical areas is not enough for George.

Call three more and they may tell you differently.

George is entitled to his opinion as are you and I.

You say it's not complaining posting pics and relating your experience with one EDGE.
I say it is.
The opinion thing once again.

But with Tikka it's not?

Of course it is.

That does not change the FACT that all synthetic T3's use the luggette, a long action, a cheap feeling IM stock, a protruding magazine, a plastic shroud, a dovetailed bolt handle, a plastic TG, and use expensive replacement parts.

BWAAAAAHAAAAAHAAAAA!!!

Whats is your take on it? Are Edge stocks as durable as standard fill stocks, in your opinion?

I'm very comfortable using edge stocks within the parameters set by McMillan.

Be cool to see a strength test using one of each. I'll supply the truck if someone supplies the Edge & McSwirly.

"comfortable" with and as durable as standard fill is two diffent things, but I won't hold your feet to the fire.

If your EDGE stock EVER fails McMillan will replace it or fix it.

That would be pretty darn cool. We need 2 each. One for a compression break and one for a flex break. Or maybe Dick D could save us the time cause you know he's got the results.

If you have this much trouble with simple reading comprehension, your trouble with a minor problem in your stock is very understandable.

Typical dodge the the question response, and result to insults. Classy!

Not always satisfied with Mfr testing. I'd also use a Chevy/Ford, driving over a rifle stock would break Toyota tie rod ends.

If the test should ever materialize, Rick would have to pass around the Prozac.

BS!

The OP's question was for a freaking .223. Explain to me why you'd need anything other than a EDGE with a .223.

Even if the fill used in the EDGE stocks isn't as durable (may or may not be) the material used in the shell is stiffer and more durable than that used in the standard construction stocks.
For my needs (and those of the OP) the stronger, stiffer shell combined with the weight savings inherent in EDGE stocks makes the EDGE a no-brainer.

As I see it the only possible reason to order a standard construction stock would be if you couldn't live without a Swirly.

I NEVER said that an EDGE would not be sufficient. I simply said it is not a "slam dunk" decision. Less weight is not a free ride. To each his own. And by the way, the caliber has nothing to do with field abuse.

Nobody I know of subjects his rifles to greater field abuse than Stick and IIRC he's a big fan of the EDGE.

And I'll take a stronger, stiffer shell rather than a more solid fill every time.

If the Edge shell is that much stronger than fiberglass why don't you see the Edge shell with standard fill. If McMillan could make a stronger stock for only a few dollars more wouldn't it stand to reason that they would?

The materials for the shell provide the strength and the materials for the EDGE shell is where the extra expense lie.
Fill is cheap.
Like I said, all of my EDGE stocks have been as stiff or stiffer than all of my standard construction stocks as well as being way lighter.

McMillan constructs all there stocks using paper m�ch�.

The difference in cost between edge and standard fiberglass stocks when you add pillars to the fiberglass for an apples to apples comparison is $75. I've got to believe that if the Edge shell is significantly stronger than the fiberglass shell then you would see Edge shell with standard fill. McMillan's website says the Edge material is "inherently" more stiff, which is not much of claim.

.....and Mexicans.

Sweet, my fever has broke (got the crud). I'm headed outside to enjoy this 80 degree weather. And for the record, I have an MPI lightweight stock, but keep that between us. I wonder if it has popsicle fill.

Inherently is a pretty strong word in my book.

As I said, the shell is where the strength in any composite stock is derived.
Fill adds very little to the strength or stiffness of a stock.
You could build a stock with no fill whatsoever and make it stiffer than any filled stock but it would require a completely encapsulated construction with the shell material spanning the action and barrel channel area. Expensive and difficult.
F1 cars have no fill. Nor do composite airframes.

One more thing, McMillan got out of the Remington KS contract, did a little marketing, and started selling old technology for more than their standard stocks. Thats all BS (or is it???)

I'm gonna call you on this one. 'Stick hates painted stocks.

Well, several folks have posted pictures of cracked Edge's. Quqntico armorers used a old early sniper fill McMillan Hunter for a shop club for 10yrs I'm told before they broke it. YMMV.

Or you like a balanced rifle.

All my rifles are superbly balanced and one has a 19oz. stock and a 22" barrel at .600".

But then I don't do heavy contours. #2 and KS at the biggest.

Did a Google Custom search of 24HCF and couldn't find a single post about a cracked EDGE.
Please provide a link if possible.

I've read about more than one. If you want to read 'em, you do the digging.

I've read about unicorns and leprechauns--no need to dig around for the truth on those either. Can an Edge fill stock crack? Sure it can, but is it a concern? After all the miles I've logged with them I gotta say you'll read a lot more about them than you will ever experience.......

Yeah, that's what I thought.

Nice try.

I found this thread in less than 30 seconds. Interesting, the crack is in an area that Manners saw fit to install standard fill. The everloving Big Stick said to send it back and get a swirly. Too funny!

http://24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/4957034/1

Edge has been very good to me. So have standard/mag fill swirls. If you're expecting to use it as a truck crossing, I'd recommend sniper fill with some rebar reinforcement molded in. If you're going to use it on a lightweight hunting rifle, I don't think you can do better than an Edge. I don't know if one is stonger or weaker than the other, but I think Edge is "strong enough, plus some" for my use.

The pic that ctsmith posted would be on the way back to McMillan. I think McMillan would like to learn from any problems and would appreciate getting it back. It looks a void to me...I'd think it could happen with any fill, but I could be wrong....

This is saying a lot coming from a man who goes through Talley LW's faster than cheap underwear. We know if it can be broke you are the man

My lite-weight 7.9 lb rifle with a #3 barrel! If I threw on some cheap Talley's it would weigh 7.3 lbs, though personally I cannot tell the difference in a few oz, nor want/need a rifle under 8lbs.

I know everyone has there own opinion what they consider lite-weight is, but 7.5-8.5 lbs makes for a good hunting & range gun. Then again, I'm not climbing Mnt McKinley.

Unless your using the stock for a deer drag, both Edge/McSwirly will last a life-time.

My 7.9 lb ever-lasting paint job..

You're FOS. If you really believed the schit you're peddling you'll pull one of your Edges off of an action, find an oak tree and start knocking the [bleep] out of it. You CAN do that with a sniper fill Mickey, cause its BEEN DONE.

For hunting use, does any of this matter, with reasonable care? Probably not. But anyone that thinks a skim of carbon fiber over foam is as strong as the way the mickey sniper stocks are made, as many have suggested in this thread, is an idiot.

Throw one of those sniper fill McMillan's on a lightweight barreled action and you truly are an idiot.

But we already knew that.

"Skim over foam"..

That was funny.

Not for TAK but he's a dumbshitt.

You don't realize how how well timed that was...I thought I might have run through another pair yesterday! Heading in before light I slipped and dropped my rifle about 8 feet off a ledge onto rock...I almost followed it... Cracked the BC cover on the front objective, scratched the stock paint (Edge) a bit, and added some "character" to the cerakote on the barrel. Scope looked ok and the Talley's looked fine. Hunted with it yesterday as I was 1/2 way up the mountain...but I'll not use it again this season until I can check the zero.

Nice Rifle Rest, and rifle

Cliff, it's near perfect 'cept for the Murphy mount. Stoney shoulda ponied-up some $ and bought something decent to secure the alpha glass. I mean why skimp there?

Can't say it hesitate to throw an edge stocked rifle down a slope. The rifle and glass will be [bleep] but I can bet the edge will get bolted to another rifle.

For sure, an Edge ain't gonna be the weak link in the chain...

Still waiting on several pics.

I'd like to see 'em, too- don't recall ever seeing them on this forum.

News to me, as well.

I can post several pictures of un-cracked Edges! ...but I'm trying to break one....

Talk about stirring the pot

I had one crack in the shell on the bottom behind the BDL bottom metal. I'm sure it was a bedding issue. The BDL metal was a tight fit and torquing down the action screw cracked it. Even so, the super stiff, Indy car style shell is not invisible.

Ennie, Meanie,



Minnie..



MOE! Brown Precision



LOL
DMc

Nice color mix, post pics after completion.

No can do. Sold it here on the Classifieds. But no worries, the new owner'll be along with pics b4 ya know it!

Truth be known, I like the EDGE in ADL best:







The epitome of �Plain Jane� but subtly tasteful.


DMc