From top dollar to just run of the mill who is are the best gun smiths gun makers in the USA

Simillion, Echols, Miller, Burgess, Penrod............................ and it goes on. There is a couple from the above list that could be considered the best complete rifle builders in the world.

Chuck

Accuracy, functional perfection...Sid Goodling

Lefty

Duane Wiebe
Darwin Hensley (if he's still working)
Stephen Heilmann
David Miller
D'Arcy Echols
Gary Goudy
Paul and Sharon Dressel
Dennis Olsen
Don Klein
Mark Stratton
Frank Wells
John Bolliger
Dale Goens

(For our Canadian friends Martin Hagn and Ralf Martini)

Believe you need to add the Biesens and Sharon Dressel.

When it comes to complete rifles Combined with resale value, I do not think anyone can touch David's rifles. I am not saying that other smiths are not as good. It just seems as though Davids keep their value longer, and higher. I would say that David, and D'Arcy are probably the best at what they do..

Just wanted to put in an editorial comment. There are always folks in every line of endeavor who get famous for what they do. But in this country of close to 300 million people, I would bet good money that there are a couple thousand guys who could turn out a rifle anyone would be proud to own.

So far no one has mentioned Charlie Sisk or Mickey Coleman, two names familiar on the campfire. John Ricks, when he was building them, could turn out a superbly functional and beautiful rifle. Here abouts we have two men that I know of, Combe and Shemmerhorn, who do excellent work. Jim Brockman is a bit south and west of here. The guys at Hill Country Rifles, Brown Precision and other companies can make some fine rifles.

Don't mean this to try to detract from the Echols and Millers of this craft - they transcend mere gunsmithing into something more akin to works of art. Just saying that because a guy hasn't been written up in Rifle or his name is not bandied about on the net doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of folks who have the skill and interest to turn out some truly superb custom rifles.

The trouble is sorting out the great unknowns from the hacks without paying to find out you've contracted with a hack. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

There is no doubt in my mind there are great unfound, or unpublished gunsmiths that do great work. All I can speak of is what I personally know, so I only speak of the smiths I have dealt with. You also, can divide groups into varmint, match, hunting, longrange, some smiths are really obly good at a particular craft, but when you can get a smith that can do all or most of the above you have found a gem.....

Wow, that is a loaded question. There are so many good ones that any list would leave off some real gems.

While I have no doubt that some of the top guys mentioned turn out some fantastic stuff, there are some guys who are just really good marketers. Other guys just stick to what they do well, build guns, and let word of mouth sell their wares.

As an example, some of the best looking, best feeling stocks I have ever seen have come from a small time guy named Al Ward. I'd put his stuff up against about anyones, but most likely you've never heard his name.

Good gunsmiths are like good deer. They are where you find them. Gunsmithing is not rocket science, and there are few secrets. There are those who sweat the details and those who do not.

Jim- DITTO!!!

I certainly do need to add them. My apologies, though I figure Sharon could be contacted through Paul. I'd guess Frank Wells would fall into that category also.

You need to add Alfred Gallifent, Kirk Merrington, and Dale Tate. Also, Griffin & Howe, which is a larger establishment. Don't forget JJ Perodeau at Champlin Arms. And then, in Canada, there's Nick Makinson. None of them, except for Champlin and Griffin & Howe, focus on custom bolt action rifles, but all of them are craftsmen, particularly in the eyes of users of British and European double rifles and shotguns.

There is a little shop in Nescopeck, Pa by the name of Robert W. Hart & Son. I would put Bob's work in the top tier.

I think CAS hit the nail on the head. I was a professional engine builder for the first 20yrs of my working life and it is a similar occupation. The guys that sweat the details and take care of the occasional (read very few) problems are the successful ones.
Dave

I think the list given is pretty complete. As also mentioned there are plenty of other competent gunplumbers out there, but they don't rise to teh level of top smith. Simply squaring an action, fitting a chambering a barrel and dropping it into a plastic stock does not qualify one as a top smith.

What seperates the men from the boys is being able to get feeding perfection from the magazine, fitting wood to metal and having a gun that shoots consistantly accurately with hunting ammunition.

Speedy, at SG&Y Rifles in Texas,and Jim Borden of Borden rifles in PA sweat over the small details! ackleyfan

I have only been aroud one gun smith and help him sometimes on the weekend and that John Lewis. Him and kenny Jarrett made the first gun kenny ever made to gether.Also shot 40 to 50000 round a year for ballistic.He was the shops keeper and main gun smith there at kenny shop and help with the 300 jarrett and 7 mm stw.John lewis left kenny about 10 years ago and has his on gun shop call carolina precision in jackson south carolina

All I can say is the nicest custom rifle I have ever held would be one of Ryan Breeding short barreled big bores. They are quite impressive

rbbigbores.com

Ditto what Jim said.

Alos, let's not forget Bill Shehane.

At present, I would consider Mr. Jerry Fisher to be the dean of custom rifle builders in the USA, yet, his name has not been mentioned. There are several others who should be on the top list as well and I refer to people who can build a wood and metal functional work of art.

Here in Canada, there are very few top gunsmiths, Chris Weber was here and was the finest stockmaker in Canada, but, he is now back in Germany, I am informed. As to shotguns, the best Englishman here is Les Paul and Makinson is not highly regarded with good reason.

Yup, I'd say theres at least a couple of hundred smithys that can crank out a 3000.00 shooter. Name has lots to do with it.
I know a guy here who works at Ford, and engraves with the best in the world. I have really not seen much better.
If you want to be the "best" you need to join the various guilds and promote yourself as such.
Those names mentioned understand promotion and the value of marketing. Then, theres guys like Dave who simply are just a flawless craftsman with little interest in doing anything but a coule of guns a year.
I saw a woman checkering at a gun show (not anybody I've heard of) and she was fast and flawless. She was finishing up a Super Grade Win stock and I was in aw. Really excellent layout, symetry.
I asked how much and was told "oh, about 400 bucks. Not a bad price for that much fineline wraparound. I asked how long.
Mmmm, she said, we're getting ready to go to Orlando with the grandkids. I think I may be able to take it on later this summer..wth?? She said she just did a few here and there. Again. They're out there, craftsman in hiding LOL

I wonder how many top smiths sub out certain tasks to specialists, like the checkering you mentioned?

I suppose you must set parameters? Stocks only?
Checkering of stocks only? Metalwork only? Engraving?

Big names charge big money.

There are only a few who can do it all. Some guys who could
be be called a one man show, often do work equal to, or
better than, the big boys.

Here's one:

http://www.eddelorge.com/

There are the super craftsaman listed and their shops but in some cases, some shops, they may do little if any of the work. True, I imagine they don't let anything leave without giving the OK but I've seen a thing or two leave a shop, one of which is listed here, which could have been done better. And that can happen anywhere.

George

Ditto, George. I've seen the same thing happen. If the "master's" name is on it, everything that leaves the shop should be up to his personal standard of quality. Sadly, that's not always the case. A lot of fine craftsmen are simply not good business or people managers.

Paul

This is a loaded question.It all depends upon what you are looking for,I guess that is quality as defined by the user.
Speedy posted a few pictures on www.benchrest.com of two bench guns that were engraved. When you think about it makes sense.

Then you have Martini & Hagn-now is there any difference betwen the two?
Glenn

Blaine, did you mean Bill Shehane??

Based on how this thread is going ... I would imagine I'm not the only one that thinks it would be a great idea to assemble this list into a sticky where each smith is listed, along with their location and other contact info ... and if applicable, a small note on what they do best. I'm positive there are a lot of people that are unaware that there might just be one of these fine smiths near them to do work they need done...

I guess it would kinda be the "good guy list" of gunsmiths... just a thought...

Since they haven't been mentioned yet (and they fully deserve to be)...George Gardner and the guys at GA Precision.

Maintaining a list of smiths along with their specialties and locations is a great idea.

Yup. I just fixed his name.

However, none of thse gunsmiths will be able to compete with me when I finally get my own lathe. Many competition shooters already do their own smithing. I have no interest in doing work for anyone else, but I finally be able to get things exactly how I want with no one to blame but myself if it doesn't turn out right.

I recently assembled and did an home-brew accurizing job on a 30-06 from parts I had laying around, a SS factory takeoff barrel, and a naked, boltless receiver. I headpsaced it by lapping the lugs somewhere around .003 to .004". The rifle weighs less than 8 lbs with a 40mm scope and will shoot 168 TSXs into .75 at 2950 fps--so far.

I am as excited about this rifle as I am any of my custom jobs.

Blaine ... speaking of .30-06's shooting 3/4 MOA ... that CZ550 American of mine in .30-06 is doing just that. Had the trigger tweaked and the action bedded ... I did some stock work myself to open up the bbl channel and re-seal it up so that it's floating nicely. Unfortunately I don't hand load ... yet ... so I gotta keep playing with factory loads to see how tight I can get the groups... Oh yah ... those groups are with a relatively crappy bench rest setup, and an LPS German #4 reticle, which isn't that great for iddy biddy groups, so needless to say I'm very excited to go hunting this season w/ this rifle!

and on that note, how's your .416 been acting?

ps: sorry for kinda hijacking the thread ...

I agree on Dennis Olson. He is good & he did my .375. I had the fortunate experience to handle one of Dale Storey's guns. It was a .300 H&H with a McMillan stock. I was so impressed I am going to try to get him to do me something on my p-17.

George Hoenig, Monte Mandarino, Fred Wells, Steven Dodd Hughes, James Tucker, Dave Caboth, Lon Paul -- are we naming the top 100? There is a lot of real talent out there.

WGM,

The aluminum bar recoil lug set-up is allowing the stock to handle the recoil very well. After 100 rounds, no issues there, and the barrel gets to stay free floated.

The rifle is accurate enough, I have shot some 1/2 and 5/8" groups, though I think it is going to average around 3/4 to 1 moa with the selected load. I think I will be able to settle on the 350 TSX at around 2600 fps, which is what I want.

The big issue is getting the bullets in the magaine to stop being driven .003 to .004" deeper in their cases when the gun is fired. Check my thread to "Aussie Gunwriter" in the "Ask the Gunwriters" forum.

I also need to slick up the action a bit and possibly open up the feed rails a bit. I might contract this out to one of the real experts in that area..........

Roger Ferrell in Fayetteville, GA

Not only builds quality, functional rifles. He is often the go to guy to fix the mistakes others put out...

He can really work over a factory gun too, do a search for JudgeG's CZ over on AR to see what I mean.

Mike

Did I miss it ??? What about Melvin Forbes from NULA! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'm sure hoping Melvin is at the top, he just took a deposit from me on a model 24 in .30-06...............hhhhmmmm, now what can I sell to pay for it?????
Don

I may send a project to Mickey soon. Like Mickey there are a couple of dozen others who smith the competition winners.
When you look at match results you will see his name repeated many times along with Gre-Tan, Borden, Bryant, Baity, Tooley etc. I am thinking it could be a good idea to have one of these smiths whose work is consistently winning matches to do the metal work, then send it to Dressel or David Miller for the stock work. That is if a wooden stock is wanted?
I used to covet english walnutted beauties but the practical side of my brain started telling me hunting with it would be akin to driving a Mercedes SUV or Escalade along hunting trails with deep washouts and mesquite thorns scratching paint off the sides.
And that is how I evolved into coveting Swirlys or RickBins spider web paint jobs. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Fred Wells of Prescott, AZ.

As good as the best an then some.

My father always said that building a good gun was easy. It's not what you do that counts. It's what you don't do wrong that makes the difference.

I am not much for fancy wood and such. What I want is precision and accuracy, for that I go to Greg Tannel at
GRE-TAN rifles.

Blaine - be careful. Doing your own work ain't necessarily cheaper; it is an addiction like many other aspects of our sport. Build a good shooting rifle and then you need to do another to see if you were just lucky the first time. Then another. I was led by the hand through a project and now am learning bits and pieces as I go and have a real itch to build another rifle. Thoughts of my own lathe have run through my head, too. Good work on the '06 and good luck. Ward

Ward,

It will be cheaper than Echols or Miller or Jarrett............

However, it has more to do with lack of waiting times and the satisifaction one gets from doing it yourself................

Will go with Kute on Jerry Fisher, who has recently made me a Krag, and with 458 on Monte Mandarino. Add Mark Silver. The latter two have done complex restoration work for me on a Wundhammer Krag and Holland & Holland Krag respectively and I own a wonderful Mandarino flintlock in early PA style. Fisher is really the dean of American stockmakers and does superb metalwork. Mandarino and Silver were both trained by John Bivens on muzzle loaders twenty odd years ago. They can make anything but Monte has become a kind of gun trader in classic between the World Wars custom rifles and does much less work these days. Mark specializes in Holland & Holland and Oberndorf Mauser replicas of superlative quality: far better than the originals. Monte says Jerry is the best stockmaker in the world and Jerry says Monte is the best overall craftsman alive. The Fisher Krag is an extraordinary rifle and when I learn how to use a digital camera I will post pictures of it. Mandarino made a wonderful French 17th C FL rifle for Bob Lee that has been exhibited in museums, took him years, learned how to do all the gold inlay, etc. Says he will never tackle a similar project. I have to say that I am not terribly impressed with smiths like Miller, Simillion and Echols who make the same thing over and over again, admittedly until they get it to a quality level that is beyond perfection. Today's classic custom American bolt action hunting rifle has gotten a little boring, the smiths tend to copy each others refinements until the rifles are as alike as peas in a pod. I would like to see much more work on single shots and lever actions, for instance. A Savage 99 makes a great platform for a custom rifle. But the demand is not there, the customers have swallowed the gunwriter guff that only magnum bolt guns are worth customization. OK, the rant is over for now !!!!!!

Should add that it is intrinsically hard to make a really graceful bolt action, you have that clunky asymmetrical bolt sticking out the side. That is why the Germans and Austrians tried to streamline the things with the butterknife handle. All they succeeded in doing was making rapid operation difficult - and quite impossible with the Mannlicher Schoenauer ... the fullstock carbine nontheless remains, of course, the exemplar of a good looking bolt gun.

The "best" gunsmiths do not have to be famous in my mind. They just have to have a goal to create the best product they can for your money. I also think that to qualify as a gunmaker they should have to be able to do it all and most don't. Some of those on DPhillips lists are primarily stockmakers like Gary Goudy, but he is about as good as they come. If you have ever had the opportunity to see any of Jim Dubell's work I am sure he would find his way on your list. He lives in Colville WA and operates the Delta Gun shop, formerly of Delta AK. He is an incredible machinist and a very accomplished stockmaker. He also bought Cliff LaBounty's reboring business so he is up to his elbows and other parts in that work.

Define cheaper. Cause I think you're on to something here.

Chuck

I'm deeply flattered (and humbled) that my name would even be mentioned in such a gathering as those. I must admit that I could never build a custom rifle such as some of the top riflemakers build simply because I don't have the 'eye' for lines found in the top rifles seen today.

I try to pay close attention to details and in the past year have had a chip to get under a flute on a reamer (TWICE!) and score a chamber. Had to eat two barrels plus the labor and shipping to have the rifles shipped back to me. I've now started doing chamber casts on every chamber job to prevent such things going out of the shop. This 'education' cost me about $1,000 and I don't even have a 'diploma' to hang on the wall.

I am friends with Melvin Forbes and greatly admire his talents. I've met Mark Penrod (he probably doesn't remember me but it was at a Super Shoot) and he is a master in metal work.

There are countless artisans across the country who will never be known outside a small circle of friends. I've seen some of their work that was breathtaking. One who is almost never heard of these days is Ken Lundquist of Atlanta. He built a takedown rifle that was on the cover of 'Rifle' magazine many years ago that was a work of art. I doubt I'll ever be in the class of those guys but I do appreciate your kind words.

My favorites are the ones that don't have their phone disconnected, that answer e-mails in less then a year, and don't move or take on other jobs while they still have your gun and money.

Steelhead,

I agree--those traits rank high very high on my list. They are also part of what is driving me to do it myself.

I would have to respectfully add the name of H.L. "Pete" Grisel, a craftsman in both metal and wood, to the list. I am fortunate enough to own a full race custom 270 on a pre 64 Model 70 action that he crafted and it is a work of art.

Jim

The quickest way to a long list of the best is the directory of the American Custom Gunmakers Guild (www.acgg.org). The ACGG doesn't include all of the best, but nearly all of its members are among the best.

I know and admire a lot of the best, and I've known and been had by some of the worst � two groups both of which I see represented among the names posted above in this thread. I hesitate to start trying to list those whom I've found to be the best (too many names on a long list), and I'm not going to name anyone whom I've found to be a crook or con artist.

Just one note of caution from one often scalded � don't repeat my mistake of equating artistic ability with character or honesty.

One of the best engravers whom I ever knew, for example, took some big money to engrave a shotgun for a Chicago mobster. Local rumors aren't clear whether he sold the shotgun but agree that he didn't deliver what he took the guy's money for. The guy sent two goons with ball-peen hammers out to do a serious and thorough job on the engraver's legs, and he wore plaster casts for a long time.

One of the ablest stockers, who did several jobs for me and was often featured in Rifle, ripped me off for some very, very expensive custom hardware � and I later found that he'd done the same, on an even larger scale, to clients who went to him specifically on my recommendation. I still have rifles that he built for me, and every rifle loony at our Campfire would drool at the sight and feel of them. He is one of the best � and one of the worst.

.

Ken,

Your whole post is downright scary. Sadly, I've long since learned from personal experience that there are are many untrustworthy and unethical people in the gun business. The hardest to understand are those who squander a reputation that has taken years to build.

Paul

Jim Borden is my goto smith. I dont even consider looking...i just call Jim.

Does anyone know how to contact Darwin Hensley? He is no longer listed on the ACGG site. I have a "work of art" created by Mr. Hensley and would like to contact him about it.

Richard

David Christman in Louisana is hard to beat and could be considered one of the better stockmakers. A real gentleman and is accessable. Butch

Lots of names of good smiths on this thread too...

Dwight Scott- Barrel fitting, metal work.
Tom Meridith-Stock fitting, finishing.
dave

A great 'smith is one who listens to what you want and either will do it or will turn the job down . He delivers when promised .

I got a great one . He would kill me if I posted his name on here . Some of his benchrest rifles have won their part of the show at the national , but I'm apt to find him fixing a 40 dollar 22 for a local next time I walk in his shop !

Jerry Simison for metal work and Tom Merideth for stock work. Both are superb.

Kind of like taxidermists, we all have our favorites. For rifles mine is Gre-Tan.

The smiths that were mentioned above MUST be worth their salt MColeman IS my go to smith AWESOME Fella I must add, but why haven't anyone mentioned Mark Bansner???