So what do you think is the most common mistake or cause for dissatisfaction on customs?

shooting the donor

Lack of COAL freedom/Mag box length

Weight and wait......

That likely sums it up.

Weight is a big one.

yup

Too much contour and not enough twist,are common Themes. Too much throat and not enough COAL,another.

Seen guys duped by Snake Oil and The 82 Trick Move bullschit too and often in conjunction with the above.(grin)

Muzzle Brakes for hunting rigs.

Balance or lack-there-of

1) Starting with a Remington or Remmy clone, or any other push feed action as the basis.

2) failing to find and use decent wood for the handle

3) not chambering for the fastest cartridge readily available in the caliber you want that will fit through the action you have chosen

Yadda yadda yadda ...

He makes Don look smart.

A liar, cheat, and an idiot.

Not finding a gunsmith who can and will deliver the goods to your satisfaction, on time, on budget- and back it up if something isn't right. And also not spending the time to discuss with the 'smith exactly what your vision is so he can fulfill it to the best of his abilities.

Bob

I think not handling enough of other people's well built customs is a big mistake. It always gives me a good idea what I like and should look for in rigs. Happy I have seen and shot a few of 30338s and his son's...grin

Tanner

Shank length!

The first "gunsmith assembled" rifle (if you want to call it a custom) I had put together had too heavy a barrel. She's been corrected, but it cost some coin to fix her--new barrel, new stock.

If you're gonna go heavy on the barrel, go heavy! If not, just go with a #2. No tweeners.

A lightweight magnum.

That's a good one... a #2 is to light for anything 300wm and bigger,IMO

Letting the wife know how much it really cost.

Sometimes not slowing down enough to take the previous project hunting more.

Bingo!

Documenting the entire order. Write specifications with details.

Provide photo's and drawings. Include the price and delivery specifications.

The threads in which I was accused of such, about as many folks have posted in my favor as against. Bottom line is that in an area of commerce, differences of opinion are going to occur and I have demonstrated with photos and copy's of correspondence that my view and memory of events was correct in the Ruger Charger issue that went on for so very (much too) long.

All that aside, that you would post such a thing in a forum and thread so FAR removed from those conversations, both by topic and time, and from the anonymity of the internet PROVES beyond ANY DOUBT that you sir are a low life COWARD!

As further proof of my point above, Rancho has the bravery to make a hit and run comment like that, then put me on ignore so that I cannot reply to him more directly. Wow, what an amazing example.

So sorry folks for the distraction and name calling. I would like to keep these discussions to the topic at hand.

Some disagree with my ideas about what makes a good custom, and that is great. Let everyone have their say when a query is made, and let the poster and viewers of that thread make thier picks as to whom to listen to or what weight to give to a post. Perhaps based upon actual, real life hunting and rifle building and testing experience. Others here certainly have more of that than me for sure, but few.

I will add that for a pure target or varmint rifle, IMO the push feeds including the Model 700 make very fine rifles. I just do not prefer them for building a serious big game rifle. Opinions and the sharing of same is what makes this forum or any other what it is. Experiences of many, shared and viewed among the members.

twist

absolutely! Most being twisted too slow.

Tanner hit it. (No pun intended, but that was a good one)
Nothing like handling a rifle you like to nail down(pun there too) the details before you build. A rifle that's built perfect mechanically but doesn't feel GREAT (whoops, one more), goes down the road or disappoints you the entire time you're packin it (yep, packin it).

Fireball,

Absolutely correct, sir. The problem for me for a long time was quantifying what would make a custom rifle "Feel good" or lively. I measured the measureables on some nice rifles that I really liked and learned that despite my having XXL hands I much prefered a slender pistol grip. I then always specified a grip diameter of 4.25 inches. Add to this an open, almost "prince of Wales" style grip and a slender but slightly ovaled forend with diamond point checkering and I have rifle nirvannah.

I am really glad that I had a couple of good ones built when I could do so and have so far managed to keep ahold of them.

Here is my best of the best, my much travelled and bloodied 416 Rigby, as done up by our own Karnis:




Closer up to show the grip area and smaller diameter



To make a lively feeling slender grip on a heavy kicking rifle like this one must use good quality, well grained wood. To hedge our bets, this stock's grip has a 3/8 inch steel rod embedded into or through its full length, epoxied in with Brownells Steelbed bedding compound.

This feature is also useful in that if I am ever run over by a cape buff and in great agony, the stock will still be in good order and can be used as a club by my tracker or skinner to bludgeon me into a nice, deep, pain free coma!

Fingers crossed

Dat was mean! (but funny nevertheless)

My trips to Africa and other far reaches are now behind me, I am afraid, so no bludgeoning in the near future. But the concept was sound!

Impatience/ignorance......

It's best to know what you want and why before building a custom, otherwise you're going to be disappointed.

Turning your custom project over to a smith w/o references who argues with you about features you want to stay in his comfort zone.

Believing ANY smith's first promised delivery date.

1B

This was it for me on my first. Didn't specify. Shank too long���.like 2.5".

That was it for me on my 2nd custom. 6mmAI with a slow twist. I loaded up dummy rounds, but didn't know enough about twist to specify when I ordered the barrel from Pac-Nor.

Good rule of thumb for twist��..FAST IS GOOD�.but FASTER IS GOODER!

My ignore button is for the trash I won't do business with. Too bad there isn't a ranking, because you would be the number one piece of self-serving human garbage on my list.

That's a personal problem right there..................

Bullsh*t.

Double bullsh*t safariman!!!!

As someone posted above.................liar, cheat, & an idiot!!

Another problem is people not being bright enough to know who to ask for answers to their questions. If you have an action question, ask the folks that make the action, not the stock.

It's a common problem with Yankees.

1.) Listening to people that don't know what the [bleep] they're talking about. This can include the gunsmith.

2.) Not listening to people that do know what the [bleep] they're talking about. This can include the gunsmith.


Travis

Shank length
Gearing for overall weight with no thoughts to balance
Throat/magazine disfunction
Too heavy of a contour

Excepting the balance problem, those have been my mistakes so far.

^^^^^^^^


This.


My first custom is a pretty basic .223. I have a really good smith here and I basically told him to put together what HE would like in a utility rifle. He did and it remains as one of my very faves...

Dealing with people who hate Yankees because their wife/ex-wife is from Philly and she is deeply entrenched in left-wing democratic beliefs, then because of this, has a greater than thou attitude towards everyone that lives north of the Mason Dixon Line!!


PS - For the record, BAT was contacted..........wanna see the email between me and Daryle Thom??? In fact, send me your email address and I'll forward it to you!!!!!!

Contacting BAT was not the issue, getting a return call/email from McMillan was.....remember big boy??

No, her family KNOWS how to say thank you. I'm just grateful they don't get puzzy hurt so quickly.

I have had many customs made and for me the #1 thing is to choose the right gunsmith, the first few I had built I had the wrong one

#2 is to have your own reamer made, not been happy with the reamer specs on most of my customs with rented reamers or one the gunsmith had on hand.

#3 might just be me, but using a Pac-Nor 3 groove barrel led to dissatisfaction every time I bought one. buy a better brand of barrel and be sure of the twist you want.

I did appreciate & still do appreciate your efforts/information, but obviously you don't think so??? You have to give someone the chance to say thank you, not jump his azz right off the bat (no pun intended)!!

Puzzy hurt.......not at all my man, just clarifying the record!! In fact who's puzzy hurt here and keeps re-hashing this BS after we kissed and made up??

This ain't even sporting. Trust me, you took my first post FAR too seriously.

We are all good....................I gotta laugh out of it!! In fact, I was expecting some type of post from you about that debacle waayyy before this one!!

no suggestion about mistakes. My advice for planning. I buy parts when I find deals. when I gather enough I get one done. Make no mistake if you ever resale you in for a loss

I autograph mine before selling. I always come out ahead.



Travis

That about covers it....what comes around goes around.

Barrel selection is the beginning and end of a good rifle.

That being said, I have never understood why someone would spend all that money on a custom that basically duplicates a gun that could be bought at Walmart.

Not budgeting enough money.

BINGO! We have a winner. The idea is to get a perfect gun so pay attention to those that have been there and done that. Most will tell you what they did wrong and what they did right. Lots of knowledge on here just for the asking. Why ask for advice and then totally ignore it?

Sounds about right. Choose a POS action and let it tell you what it could possibly digest reliably, then wrap it in something unstable, but fun to massage warm oils into.

Sounds like a girl I once knew

1. Weight. It's real easy for the weight to get out of control. Gunsmiths would always rather build them heavy because it's easier for them to make a heavy rifle that shoots.

2. Letting a gunsmith talk you into what he wants to do instead of what YOU want. I'm all for listening to and taking sound advice, but there comes a time when you've gotta just say "this is the way I want it, make it happen".

Assuming the rifle will be worth what you have in it.

How can shank length lead to such disappointment?

Serious question.

Weight distribution, and the fact that most shanks as supplied by the barrel maker look like stank ass unless they're trimmed a good bit.

My main problem with it is the barrel channel inlet. Longer shanks won't fit in say�..a KS stock and you'll be cutting it close with a mountain rifle pattern. I had ordered a KS stock for a 280AI build, but had to change the order to an Edge Classic when I got the barreled action back with a 2" shank.

And even if it does fit, you may lose some stiffness there because the barrel channel has to be reamed out so much.

Had the same problem with the 1st custom I had. I cut well into the gelcoat trying to get the shank to fit. That was a mountain rifle pattern McMillan. Not a good thing.

And it is unnecessary weight.

Bighorn brought up a good one. A typical modern custom rifle is usually a Remington 700 action with an after-market barrel and stock. Sometimes another factory action is used, but the basic principle is the same: Unless the rifle is put together by some "name" maker, you may have some difficulty getting much more money for it than a synthetic-stocked factory rifle of the same make as the action.

Unless, of course, you get it made in some wildcat cartridge. Then you might not get as much as you would for the same rifle in a factory chambering--and will probably have to include the relatively high-priced dies you bought as well.

A lot of people would be much better off getting their first custom made in a fairly conventional round, in a fairly conventional rifle. These are much easier to sell later when you decide the rifle didn't change your life, but another might.

Find the right gunsmith. A guy who mostly makes "tactical" rifles probably ain't going to make the mountain rifle you want, and vice versa.

Others have already mentioned this, but get every detail in writing, down to rifling twist, barrel shank length, etc.

Over the past 25 years I've had several "custom" gunsmiths offer to build me super-rifles for a discount, and sometimes just the cost of the part. Almost always they built the rifle THEY wanted to build, not what I wanted. They acted like they were listening, but they weren't, and after talking to other people ordered rifles from the same gunsmiths, they usually had the same problems.

Examples: One guy who specialized in tactical rifles promised a "light" .260 Remington. I sent him a Remington 700 short action and got a rifle that weighed almost 8-1/2 pounds before it was scoped. Another guy put a 1-12 twist barrel on a 7x57 (!!!!) because he assumed I'd only be shooting 140-grain bullets. More than one gunsmith has demonstrated that he didn't really understand how to free-float a barrel. One made the length-of-pull 14" because he was under the impression (I don't know how) that I have "long arms."

If the smith doesn't ask about LOP and other details of stock fit, he isn't really a custom gunsmith, just somebody who screws barrels and stocks onto actions. There are a lot of those around.

Entire books have been written on this subject. I have several, but the one I'd usually recommend is SELECTING AND ORDERING A CUSTOM HUNTING RIFLE. It was published by Charlie Sisk but is far from a commercial for his rifles, since he wisely had a bunch of people contribute to it. He published it because he hoped it would save HIM time, preventing having 2-hour phone conversations with his customers once or twice week after they placed their order.

Thinking that buying the best of every think of to which to build with and spending lots of $$$ will make YOU a better shooter.

Wayne York of Oregon being one. I'll never use him again.

He drilled out the aluminum pillars of a Mcmillan Edge Stock of mine and put in steel pillars and repainted the stock.
All to my surprise and all without my say so. Then would not release the rifle till I paid him for the extra services.

So, I would say giving explicit instructions to your smith.

I've noticed many smiths adding work and parts to a rifle that were not initially wanted.

Also, Building a rifle on a Winchester Pre 64 action.

Yeah, some will nickel and dime you to death with "little" extras.

I've known "accuracy" smiths who simply wouldn't deal with pre-'64's, saying they required too much work. On the other hand, many pre-'64's shoot very well as-is!

++++

Closed minded much?

Get it in writing, all of it. Let's them know you CARE about how this turns out!
Sent a full custom Mini 14 back to Texas to have the crown redone. Came back with a 6" long adjustable brake. Completely ruined the gun. Sold it.

Oh, boy, another gunsmith who wanted to "impress."

If you do not give explicit instructions to your smith, you take your chances.

Expecting to get what you have into a custom rifle if you decide to sell it, is just plain crazy.

I had a custom 9.3x62 Mauser built for my Africa trip in 2012, it was built just the way I wanted it and I have much more into the build than it is worth, but it is my rifle done the way I wanted it. Never plan to sell it!

I'd suggest if a smith can't get a custom based on a pre 64 M70 to shoot, that the problem is the smith, not the action.

Not just picking the Montana in the caliber you want, picking wood or synthetic, pick a scope and mounts.

Then all you have to do is pick a sling, if you use 'em.

If you can't get it to shoot, add a new barrel still cheaper than roll yer own.

Too much freebore, and not enough room in the magazine for Cartridge Over all length.

The above was said previously, deserves repeating for those not into safe queens.

Gunsmiths may BS you on how good the barrels shoot with their reamer, but remember, if you can't kiss the lands, then find pressure, you screwed from the get go.

I learned the hard way to get a gunsmith to run the reamer in to the depth of the shoulder on the end of a barrel stubb and mail that to me. If he takes a quarter cut on a milling machine you will have a "window" to see the lands and freebore. You can still insert a case with a bullet in it to check the exact amount of freebore and OAL as the rifle will come to you with a new chamber.

The above is where you start if you want a super accurate rifle, but it is usually just a passing question or no interest in it at all.

I had Ray Montgomery build me a rifle once, and he included a stub of barrel that he throated exactly the same as my gun so I had an easy method for measuring to the lands. Only smith that has ever done that for me.

Thinking it will do something that a factory rifle won't do.............

Most smith's will make barrel stub guage but it will cost you....

Dowling does same on each build. Those guys are buds so no surprise. Wish they were both 30 years younger as I have more rigs that I'd like Dan to build.

'223,

That's standard fare.










rembo,

I've HAPPILY built Customs to reap a twist that weren't available and chamberings that weren't available. Of course Today,there's more of each available OEM over the counter,but certainly not all dots is connected.

Have yet to build,justa' build.(grin)










'338,

Dan's work,blows Ray outta da water.

Great Plumbers abound.

Hint.

Another mistake is not letting Boxer do your barrel break-in for you.......................Boxer please post video!!

Can't speak for Ray, but Dan has been a favorite. Number of friends have used him and he is class all the way. Nice cause he is over near my bear hunting spot and always nice to drop a rig off or pick one up while in the area. Plus his shop is a man cave from heaven. Love stopping in there.

but Dan only works on M700's...

Stick is the one who got me started down the right path on about my 3rd build. Much appreciated his time and knowledge along the way. Not using his break in procedure though....

Yup. No problem for me though.

search it out on youtube...it's still there...I watch it once a week...:-)

Yep. It's some good schitt!

Dan Dowling is a great gunsmith, he is even a better human being. but dont let him talk you into trying his ghost pepper hot sauce. WOW burnin ring of fire is an understatement !!!

WRONG !!!!!

I talked to him on the phone. Why would I lie?

Not saying you are lying, he is a bit hard of hearing and you might of misunderstood him

Letting somebody else build it. Do it yourself. Be happy.

Last I talked to him, he would work on 700s and 700 clones. Think he does a lot of benchrest stuff too and sure those are higher end actions. Easy enough to call him during his shop hours and find out.

I called him when I had my 6.5-06 built. It was a Savage action. He told me he only works on M700's these days, and told me to call Ray Montgomery for Savage, Ruger, etc. I talked to him for awhile, and he was a nice guy. We just bullschitted about guns and shooting.

Those barrel stubs with the reamer ran in are called "neck Checkers". The term came from wildcatters and benchrest shooters necking down cases from other cartridges other than the formed case. The brass gets thicker when you neck it down, if the case would drop in the barrel stubb, then the round was safe to shoot in the rifle, in as far as neck Outside Diameter was concerned. The added benefit came when someone realized that you could also check the Bullet seating depth. Milling away 1/4 of the barrel stubb along the bore axis reveals the leade angle, amount of throat, and distance between the front of the case and the point where the leade angle starts. You can not measure these distances, but you can sure see them.

And they work great for checking shoulder bump dimensions accurately!

Likely; one of biggest mistakes a man can make is thinking he can do it right the 1st time... I can't think of anyone I ever knew that had a custom built that didn't do it again, and again, and....

After I get one done, I always find there is something I wish I had done differently... Never fails!

GH

Paying what one costs'. Other than looking prettier, I'll put my stock Savage outta the box up against any custom. Yeah you might shoot a quarter inch better, but you have to ask yourself, is several thousand dollars really worth that 1/4 in?

In my experience it has been building the rifle too heavy for the task intended and not watching a local hack gunsmith close enough and winding up with a ruined rifle in the end.

#1 mistatke is probably building a rifle too heavy for the intended purpose. Second would probably be not getting the coal of the rounds correct for the intended purpose.

See a lot of folks having to go back and tweak rigs on the custom forum these days. I do think still that the too heavy and trying to make it lighter mistake is still the most common. Bump for an old thread that some newer folks might enjoy perusing.

How about trying to build one gun to do it "all". That contributes to some of the previous comments.

I agree 110%.

Some of the biggest abortions I've seen to date have been "tweener" rifles.....

What is "too heavy" for the intended use?

As for one gun to do it all, I wouldn't change a thing with mine - not even the #4 Broughton

Thinking you need one in the first place!

1) +2 or +3 to Tanner's "Handle as many other as possible"... This is how I figured out I like the "open" grips and slimmer stocks. Mostly on my own nickle...

2) Weight - As I mentioned in a different thread. Built a .375H&H, that ended up at 11lbs with scope. Accurate. Easy to shoot. But, heavy above 10K ft. I have a KS .270 closing in on 7lbs even. But no desire to go any lower. For me and my type of hunting, somewhere in the 8.0 to 8.5lb range is "about right" for a centerfire rifle.

^^THIS^^

I've had rifles built that were very close in form and performance of other rifles that I already owned. I never ended up using them and they were eventually sold.

I've bought and build a bunch of rifles like that! Currently have a 270 and a 7x57 that are very similar and keep asking myself if I want two so similar.

wrong gunsmith

Yup ... Been using a that faux TI in 257Roberts for years. Accurate, consistent, killed deer, favorite rifle.

Later thought I needed a custom 700 in 270. Gaillard bbl, Edge stock etc etc. Had it done, shot it a few times at the range, got a good load, never hunted it, not once. Sold it this summer.

Good luck,persistence,knowledge,if there's a lack of communication right off the bat.....run like hell.

Putting too much money up front, or trade material ahead of the job.

This is the most common mistake by far.

The next is to throat the barrel for the longest bullet for that caliber.

Throating for the longest bullet of the caliber (assuming we are talking VLD type bullets here) is actually a pretty sound idea, in my mind, if you plan on shooting those types of bullets. If I make sure a 180gr Berger VLD will fit in the magazine box while touching lands, that guarantees that anything with a shorter ogive will also. Not seeing how that is a mistake, much less a commonly made one.

Tanner

Because you can always seat a heavy bullet deeper if necessary, you can't always seat a shorter bullet out far enough to touch the lands as necessary. Accuracy in many rifles depends on having the ogive close to the lands.

Throating for the longest ogive you plan on shooting will ensure that all other bullets with shorter ogives will also be able to reach the lands. Period.

Tanner

I've not found a case where this isn't true yet.

Sorry, but just not true. If you plan to shoot light for caliber bullets in a chamber throated for the longest for caliber bullets, the base of the bullet may not be sufficiently deep in the neck of the brass to create proper neck tension by time you are sufficiently long enough to touch the lands with the shorter bullet.
I've had this happen with a 260 Remington, a 25-06 and I have buddies who have also had it happen.
Of course, if you plan on only shooting the longest bullets for caliber, your plan is perfectly acceptable. If you want the ability to load long bullets for deer/elk and short bullets for varmints, you need to be able to reach the lands with both of them.

Try loading a 100 grain BT in a 243 case with the base to the shoulder junction. Now try load a 55 grain BT to the same ogive length. Won't be much of the bullet in the case by time you're done. Same with a number of cartridges- the .260 and most 308 based cases are just a small example. Many others are also in this boat.

Tanner, nothing personal but I doubt you've been loading anywhere near as long as my 46 years of practice and I don't know any where near it all. Saying "period" at the end of your statement doesn't really mean much if you don't know what you're talking about....

Bob

I don't usually interject, but i think you're misunderstanding what Tanner was saying. If you load VLD type bullets just shy of the magazine, and cut the throat accordingly, you will have a shorter throat. The ogive will be nearer the case mouth than something like a ballistic tip loaded to the same OAL. And the long nose of the bullet will take up the remaining space in the magazine. Then with a short throat, short stubby bullets will easily reach the lands, as will bullets such as ballistic tip, round nose, etc.

Had a response all typed up, but decided to wait until tomorrow when I'm not so grumpy and respond in a more coherent manner.

Exactly.

Tanner

Bob, I think you've missed the point regarding the profile. VLD type bullets will kiss at a point much further down the bullet (% wise) than a lower BC bullet. Again, this is in reference to VLD type bullets compared to non-VLDs. If you're trying to go stubby to stubby on opposite ends of the weight spectrum it may be a different game...

I haven't missed the point as such. The VLD's were never brought up until Tanner's post. In most instances, VLD's won't be a consideration as very few people actually shoot them except for long range target shooters. Ask yourself, how many guys you know who hunt with VLD's?
Now, if we are discussing hunting bullets, the vast majority of which will be used in custom hunting rifles, how would you set your throat? Let's compare apples and apples here. If you plan on throating for VLD's, you are probably only going to shoot that profile due to the vastly different ogive. Due to the profile with VLD's, you may very well have other problems with going with lighter bullets. Anyone here besides me actually tried this yet?
How about a few people load some dummy rounds and let's see what you come up with. Pictures would be great. I'm all for learning something new as I will be starting on a new custom 26 Nosler any day now and wouldn't want to make a big mistake.

Time for me to go back to working on my hotrod when it gets back from the painter Saturday....

Bob

I throat for VLDs and also shoot NBTs, Accubonds, V-Maxes... Etc.

I don't doubt what you're doing or saying Bob, just sharing my method that I learned here for throating specs. Most of my friends and a large majority of guys I see on here DO plan on at least shooting a VLD type bullet at some point.

I'd say you'd be hamstringing your 26 Nosler if you didn't at least try a long sleek bullet! I'm interested to see how you like that cartridge.

Tanner

For the longest VLD type I may shoot.

Yes, but they were the point of his post and those following afterwards.

Substitute sleek or Amax (some) in for VLD and you've got the same deal.

The last thing I really wanted to do is be argumentative about this. I'm relating my experiences, hopefully so someone else will avoid the issues in their own build. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Bob

I know a lot of guys hunting with VLDs. Stacking stuff up.

Is the 260 Nosler build going to be a heavy type sendero rig or a lighter packing rig?

The 26 will be somewhere in between. Rock 8 twist barrel in Magnum sporter contour, Rem. 700 trued action (stainless if I can find one), McMillan sporter stock that I've had stashed away for quite some time. Haven't decided on the scope- either a 3.5 x 10 with turrets or a 4.5 x 14 with turrets. Have't decided on mil/mil or MOA.
Don't want it too light as I suspect with the powder charge these carry, it may have some substantial recoil.

And, oh yeah, throated for the Nosler 129 grain ABLR, so I can use the 140's also, by seating them just a tad deeper and still use the lighter varmint bullets for extreme varminting at long range.

Bob

Weight & throating

sounds like an awesome build Bob.

Of the 129 and 140, which has a longer ogive?

Tanner

The 129gr ABLR's are long! It's been a while since I measured, but I remember them giving me a longer COAL than the 140 VLD's when seated to the lands in my son's 260.

Not being argumentative, just considering the points. I think you have reinforced Tanner's point with you're throating choice. I don't have the bullets so I'm just making a guess off numbers (assuming that the BC coincides with the profile):

140 AB, BC=.509, OAL=1.368
129 LRAB, BC=.561, OAL=1.350

You're throating to the "slicker" bullet (based on uncomfirmed BC numbers). In this case it is slightly shorter and lighter but will still probably have more point past the kiss than the 140 will. This will result in a longer loaded COAL with the 129 than the 140....not because the 140 is the longer bullet, but because it is not as slick as the 129. Forget weight/length/etc...think slick. If your slickest will kiss (within confines) then your not-so-slick bullets will kiss at a shorter COAL.

Stealing the pics below to illustrate (not the bullets in case as they would be much closer). If both of these bullets are seated to kiss it should be pretty obvious which is going to have the longer COAL.

Spending $1,000 to turn a $500 rifle into a $600 rifle.

Yeah I suppose that's the drawback to throating for a vld, less sleek bullets will have to be seated too deeply for max case capacity. Suppose it's always easier to cut a throat deeper if unsatisfied then to try to shorten a throat after it been cut deeply

If anyone is building a custom under the assumption they can break even on price someday, they'd be sorely mistaken. I just built a lefthanded mtn rifle in 223ai with an 8 twist barrel. Shoots great and haven't seen one on the shelf. It won't be for sale in my lifetime. If factory is available with what a guy wants, it would always be better financially to go that way.

More often than not I sit in the wings and pick up info from most here offering their opinion. This thread hasn't been any different up to now but just 2 cents on this subject.

IMHO, if I had thoughts on "what it would bring on the market" before building even just a rebarreled rifle and chambered to a wildcat of choice, clear up to a full blown custom from stem to stern......then I'd have to realize that I don't wish to do so.

"Custom" to me, includes what I WANT, the WAY I want it, for ME, for MY use. Thinking about what I can get out of it would kill the entire purpose of building something that is...FOR ME.

Since any changes on a rifle are made the same way, for ME, listening to advice about "changing" something I decided on is the polite thing to do......but I'm going to build what I want anyway.

The single thing making a rifle "Custom" for me, is exactly that point. MY choices of all the factors involved put together, for the bullets I WANT to use. This gets even "stickier" when including a wildcat of my design and I tire easily whenever "this OTHER round is faster" inevitably comes up from others or even gunsmiths.

If I WANTED a faster round I would have built one OR bought factory issue in something faster.

NO ONE ELSE needs to like nor understand WHY I would want what I want so I don't waste my time and simply reply "THIS is what I designed, for my use, for me and what I want you to chamber this barrel for.......if that is a problem please let me know and I will find another gunsmith."

While I TRY to be polite, many are INSISTANT that they "know better" and have some inner flaw that requires that they argue, or try to because I will not.

MY first suggestion, be it wildcat or custom throated is to order your OWN reamer, as mentioned previously.

I trusted a 'smith to order the reamer to the specs I ASKED FOR and got TWO rifles back that he refused to REchamber to the NECK LENGTH I ASKED FOR. Not THROAT length....NECK length.

He actually CHANGED the specs of my wildcat ..."because he knew more about it than I did".

Needless to say, that will not happen again, NOR will any work EVER be sent his direction.

Build what YOU want, not what someone else thinks is better.
The BEST one for me is the one EXACTLY like I asked for. Period.

God Bless
Steve

"Build what YOU want, not what someone else thinks is better.
The BEST one for me is the one EXACTLY like I asked for. Period."

+1

persue your dream!

Don't settle for less!

The trifecta

I know tastes change and people follow one another when building customs,but I think an awful lot of the customs I see on here don't resemble all-round BG rifles to me....they look too much like target belly guns with bulky for ends,gear shifter bolt knobs,tight grips and the handling qualities of a railroad tie. Too much barrel also,and then having to resort to things like flutes to lighten them up.

I know they may be ideal tools for mounting a tripod,and ridge sitting to set up for long range shots but I wonder just how good they are for dropping off into the black growth in the canyon and busting a buck or bull at spitting distance, or negotiating rough country with the rifle in hand vs slung and out of reach if needed.

In short, they seem more like specialized target rifles meant for shooting from prone, than something intended for a broader range of shots normally offered,at least in the western country I have hunted,and based on how I have done it. But tastes in custom rifles change and everyone has their own notion about these things.

Agree with Big Stick on the twist thing....1-11's and 1-12's in a 30 cal BG rifle? For what? Drive them hard and churn them over.

I dredged this great thread up for the benefit of first time builders like myself. Mostly things I've already considered, but one recurring theme is don't build a 'do it all' rifle. Can anyone elaborate on that one? It seems nobody likes a 7-8 lb all up sporter anymore...

Building too heavy.....because they want it to be accurate.

Building too big.......because they might go out west elk hunting some day.

The bother, waiting and final result of any 'custom' at all.

Advice is to buy a factory or already made custom rifle as close to what you want and get it modified if necessary.

The "tactical" build seems to rule the trade these days. You cannot blame the gunsmiths for this as this is what their customer wants. Many have said that it is easier to put together a rifle with a 6 lb barrel that shoots well than a rifle with a 3 lb barrel. I like 7-8 lb sporters a whole lot. The "do it all rifle" makes sense to me as well. Over gunning on a "do it all" rifle is where I think mistakes are made. You can always borrow a rifle if going after something big once every 10 years. Why build a deer rifle that can also handle brown bear, unless you are planning to hunt them often.

Remember to mask off the night sights. They do not work well with paint on them.

Do oven cure when the wife is not home, so she can take care of you after the fumes give you brain damage.

Whatever minimum temperature the paint instructions say, that is not warm enough.

Planning, not painting.

I think the paint fumes finally got to him...

Nevermind... that was after gum surgery.

They put cadaver bone in my gum, and it must have come from a stupid cadaver.

Hahahahaha, not what I was thinking but SO TRUE!

I recently bought a KM 7mm-08 and thought I'd play
with it until I recovered from the purchase and Christmas.

So... It shoots 3 different factory ammos under an inch,
And will chew little ragged holes with 120 NBTs.

Yea.... Not moving forward with the project any time soon.

I seem to recall some issue around an outfitted hunt? How did that go? Is there a thread that you can point me to?