Looking for the straight up skinny on which you would prefer for a sporter hunting rifle. Buy a 700 short action and have it trued up etc or for the same money buy a Stiller Predator and be done with it.

Also why would you choose either or. Thanks!

Trued 700 ADL SPS = $379 + tax + $150 for truing.

Where can I get a Stiller action for $550?

Or $450 to $475 if I sell the take-off trigger and stock and barrel.

ETA: I have a custom built on a Stiller TAC 30, and while I like it, I can't see the difference for the money between it and a trued 700.

What method and extent of truing did you get for $150?

Depends on what you expect to end up with in the end. IMHO, you can build a 700 action to be as accurate, reliable, feed as well, and just about any other measurable criteria as the custom actions- Stiller, Hall, etc.... with a little truing, but then you wouldn't have a Stiller, Hall, etc.... to brag about. And most custom actions don't come with a trigger, so you have the added expense of a new trigger and associated hardware- bottom metal, etc...

Considering the stock and most other aspects of the build will be equal,do you want to spend your money for a bragging rifle or spend it on a shooter and use the left over for ammo, etc.....?

Just my 2 peso's worth....

Bob

I'd troll gun shows, pawn shops, et cetera looking for a 700 in the format I wanted.

Predators pretty much start out as a trued Rem 700, the only difference is now they have a 1 pc bolt handle which IMO makes them somewhat better than a Trued 700, I have handled a couple Predators that didn't have very smooth bolt cycling, which left me unimpressed with them at the time, in the early days they seem to have more growing pains than any of the clones that were hitting the market pretty fast, Maybe time has fixed some of the issues.

If you already own a 700, take it as far as you want to go in the bluprinting process, just remember if you sell it down the road it's still pretty much a 700 and the clone will always have better resale, with Bighorn,Defiance,Surgeon,Bat and Borden you have some great choices, these days I try to go with a 1 pc bolt just for the added insurance!

The Stiller will have tighter tolerances. Can't really argue that. However, you can argue if the tighter tolerances gain you anything for a hunting rifle.

If you buy a donor action/rifle, and have it fully blueprinted (I would question whether this is needed for a hunting gun), you are looking at $250 over the cost of the action. By fully blueprinted, I mean single point cut, lapped, yada, yada. For all intents and purposes, you would likely then have a comparable action to the Stiller from a function standpoint.

Where the cost difference becomes minimal is when people start comparing the cost to get all the same features as a Stiller such as the side bolt release, and fluted bolt. With smithing costs, you are now approaching Stiller land, and after all that work you will still only have a Remmy action (with the resale value to go along with it). The Stiller will simply hold its value, while you will never recoup the smithing costs on your now trued/fluted/side bolt released Remmy.

However, one thing that you should also take into consideration, is that if you buy a complete Remmy action, you get a bottom metal, box, spring, follower and trigger. This is easily another $100 expense you should add onto the cost of a Stiller action.

I've owned half a dozen or so Stillers. I bought them through group buys though and got them at much more reasonable prices. I loved them, and once broken in they were very nice. In reality however, I could have built just as nice of a rifle from a functioning standpoint with a Remmy.

If you want a Stiller, save your pennies and get one. Otherwise, you will likely be just as well served with a trued up Remmy. If you choose not to buy a Stiller solely from a cost side of things, I can guarantee that you will question your decision some point down the road. BTDT a number of times.

I have a question: Do the Stiller and similar actions feed well from a magazine?

That is not a particularly ignorant question. I've owned two Shilen DGA rifles that were totally the product of Shilen and one Nesika Bay rifle, again totally built by Nesika. Both were magazine rifles and neither fed ammo worth a crap.

The problem, of course, was that both the Shilen DGA and the Nesika were designed to be single-shot rifles. And when hunters requested that the actions/rifles had the ability to feed from a magazine, the "fix" was not a particularly good one.

All three of these expensive rifles went down the road ... sadly and at significant monetary loss to me.

Obviously, the Remington 700 was built to feed ammo from it's magazine; that is a given. I'm simply wondering if the Stiller et. al. would be inviting the problems that come from trying to convert a target-oriented action into a big game action.

Cheers,

kd

I don't think I have ever heard of any feeding problems associated with them, there designed to feed from the magazine, although alot are set up with DM's.

Not sure about the predator, but take the TAC30 for example. You will spend a few hundred to turn an M700 into one...(prices taken from respected smith)

Action truing: $195
Double pinned lug: $65
Sako extractor: $120
8/40 base holes: $40
Side bolt release: $100
Bolt fluting: $85
Bolt knob: $85

These upgrades alone cost $690! Even if you find these upgrades done cheaper, you are still stuck with a Remington. You can get a complete Stiller for $900.

About $340 of those "upgrades" I don't want on a sporter hunting rifle.

Agreed, but you have to compare apples to oranges. It is obvious you can get an M700 cheaper, and that is why. That being said, does the Stiller make a more accurate rifle? Probably not.

I don't have to compare apples to oranges if what I want is an apple.

I would only add that if, in the 700, you want the one piece bolt that provides the tight tolerances a Stiller has, you'll be out the additional cost of a PT&G bolt and the labor (having the action bored and timed) of installing it.

If the one piece bolt doesn't concern you, you can have the 700 bolt sleeved and still have the tighter tolerances of the Stiller. Again, this is an added expense.

To me, going with the Stiller was a no-brainer.

John

To be clear, I have nothing against a Stiller per se.

No worries there. Yours and my purposes were likely slightly different. I wanted to have the most accurate rifle I could get in what I consider a tolerable weight hunting rifle. The closer tolerances provided by a custom action were something I wanted. I know they may not provide any more accuracy in anything short of a 6PPC bench rest rig, but I figured they certainly would not detract from accuracy. I could get there with a modified 700, but when I ran the numbers, the cost came to within about $50 of a Stiller. The Stiller will far surpass that in retained value. Given my goals, going with the Stiller was an easy choice. Many of the other customs would have served just as well�

John

Exactly!

All that's needed. All on a lathe, I'm guessin' (I'm not even close to being a gunsmith). Action face, bolt face, threads, rear of bolt lugs, recoil lug if needed. $250 to install a barrel. $400 to true action and install a barrel. It's a no brainer for me.

adding a PTG bolt (same thing Stiller uses) levels the playing field a bit. And if you buy right, sales and rebates, donor actions can be cheap. It just takes time and patience.

But that is what the OP is asking. M700 vs. Stiller. I pointed out the differences. A Stiller is fully loaded, an M700 is not. If you want AC, cruise control, heated leather seats...Get the Stiller. If you want to go from A to B, get the M700.

Thanks for all the responses. Each one made several good points and I am wiser for the thread.

First, good luck finding a stainless 700 action for less than $500.

I've had enough issues with 700 scope alignment to warrant the Stiller if given the choice.

A one piece bolt is comforting too, especially if you've had a 700 handle fail.

The firing pin assembly on the 700 has been known to be less than adequate.

Then there's the overall machining quality of the Stiller, which may not help performance very much, but I sure do prefer it.

If you have a 700 action on hand and desire bare bones, then roll with it. If intentions are to buy an action, especially stainless, and add a firing pin assembly, recoil lug, side bolt release, bolt handle, aftermarket trigger, quality bottom metal etc. then Stiller is a slam dunk.

Stiller has basically the same FP system as a Factory 700, one if not the best is Jim Bordens design, he has put alot of thought into it along with bolt handle timing and trigger timing, ie ( sear to cocking piece hand off)

Having the same system is one thing, QC is another. I was referring to QC, sorry for the confusion. As you said, nothing wrong with the system.

Stiller also has the same scope base mounting "system". Its not unusual for 700 screw holes to be misaligned horizontally. Its also not unusual for the height to be misaligned vertically (top of action not true).

I agree, Base screw hole alignment and height is a big plus and sure makes for less headaches at times!

And I thought I was a rifle snob!

I have had my share of headaches. That said, my most accurate (crazy accurate) rifle is on a 700.

Not suprised, there are some very accurate 700's around, I just think customs for the most part are a little more consistant platform to start with!

I built a 600 for my Grandson about 4 years ago. I should have known better, but I have a machine shop. I had $900 in the receiver. I don't know how you figure that you save money with a 700 because you have a trigger. You don't build a top notch rifle and use the factory trigger, well most don't.




I would call this an apples to apples comparison, not a apples to garlic comparison. Now you can save money only if you are doing your own machine work. The bolt came fluted from PT&G. Now remember that Stillers come with the .062 firing pin also as did my PT&G. You can save money by sleeving your own bolt and save a little using the factory bolt release. You can also save a little by not using a 3 pos safety.

A fitted .062 FP is another + with some of the clones!

What kind of barrels are the Stillers using these days ?

Not sure their using any barrels.....

If you got a full on, dialed in to a tenth or two, single point cut, all in one set up type truing up for $150 then you got a really good deal.

Stiller is not barreling any of their actions ? A bit back a friend bought a stiller predator, he wanted the action I got the barrel (260) stamped 10X, as I type this I am remembering it was a bit of research it was the 10X company that sold this rifle, it seems it was a Hart barrel the best we could figure.

You may very well be correct, I have heard they did some builds a while back, HS precision use to sell 10x cut rifled barrels, but it's very possible that 10x rifles used Hart barrels!

All I know for sure it spun right on a 700 action (really I guess it is a sportsman 78) head spaced perfect (index was off on stamping) but shoots very, very well !!