What is your preferred action in a "hunting" rifle? Borden Alpine looks sweet?

Remington or Ruger.

Not much sense in using a custom Rem clone action for a hunting rifle, IMO.

For a big game rifle I much prefer either a CRF (controlled round feed VS push feed) Model 70 action or a commercial Mauser action as my all time favorites. A mil surp mauser can be excellent as well if it has been properly smithed up to look and work like a good commercial Mauser but I won't mess around with one of those unless I buy it already modified and smoothed up as the cost these days to have a military '98 Mauser action made to look and run and operate with a scope and good trigger etc. is higher than just starting with a commercial action or a model 70.

The end result, for me, is a dead nuts reliable hunting tool that is easily accurate enough for hunting assuming a decent barrel and a proper bedding job.

WHOA wait just a minute that is blastphomemy, you are on 24hourcampfire home to the rifle loonies. This ought to get you the boot! LOL

They are sweet and somewhat of a luxury, but if you really expect top end and consistant accuracy they are worth the extra $$ at least to me they are, they have a feel unlike any Rem 700!

Like the Stiller TAC series actions. I Jones for the customs if I'm building. Out of the box I'll go Tikka T3.

Didn't think they were a CRF, but looked like a possible idea for a hunting rifle build? May forgo it then unless I decide to make a build for LR. Thanks for the info guys.

CRF is not a necessity a push feed will do everything you want in a hunting rifle...now want is a different story!

ESOX....what sort of hunting are you considering?

Another vote for the Borden Alpine, I sure like the one I have on my .243. For a nice all around lighter-weight hunting rig that sure are nice. I could be happy with 3-4 more:)

+1

If a guy wants a custom action, he should get a custom action.

Required for hunting? No. Awesome? Yes.

As for the CRF debate, I have both PF and CRF. I've never missed a shot at an animal because I was toting a PF rifle.

I agree with this, not necessary but if a guy want's one, go for it
My preference is Bighorn

the older you get the lighter you want it. Kimber action attached to a Montana for me.

I have built three and getting ready to start a fourth build. I used the following:
1-Win Model 70 pre-64 in 300 Win Mag.
2-Win Model 70 Classic in that good for nothing, 270 Win.
It was strictly my preference in actions. The next loonie may chime in he used Rem Model 700.

My wife and I have had custom rifles built on a bunch of actions, both CRF and PF, and factory and custom. The only problem we've had with any was when a gunsmith couldn't get a detachable magazine for a Remington 700 .250 Savage to feed correctly, so eventually he replaced it with a standard BDL magazine.

I've also tested a number of custom and limited production rifles built on various 700 clone actions. The weak point in many has been the magazine. You'd think it would be relatively simple to get a 700 clone to feed consistently, since Remington 700 rarely result in any problem, but apparently many makers have to come up with something different. Many of the magazines are also a PITA to load, even when they feed well.

I am a Mauser man, but just found a PF Win 70 action at a good price. They have a reputation for accuracy, and (IMHO) have a better safety than Remington's & their clones.

Seems from what I've seen in my LGSs that with the advent of the post-64 CRF they've fallen out of favor and are fairly priced.

I'll have a report on mine here in the next couple of months.

You put "hunting" rifle in quotations signifying a one off or special rifle.

Here is a Borden Alpine.




While I hunt with pre-64 M70's, Mausers, Brnos and 99's your idea looks well made.
$1095.00

Why Bighorn just curious? Also do they weight about the same as say the Borden?
Thanks

Have heard Bighorns are a little more robust than a Borden and Defiance, but not sure on the exact weight!

I've really enjoyed packing my Borden over the past couple of seasons.

I would build on another!

Stiller was a good one I had, shot 1/4" at 200 yds...a 6BR
Alpines, all been great.
I would also consider Defiance strongly and Pierce.

My last three rifles have been built on Defiance actions. Really like the action but one down fall at least when I use Swarovski scopes is that I have to go to medium Talley's so I have enough clearance so the bolt will clear the scope. Don't have these issues on the 700 actions.

you don't need CRF if its a big game rifle, is that deer going to run you over and kill you?? building on a mauser is not very smart IMO they are almost always tired and worn out. The bolts have tons of slop in them and often things are ground off or otherwise monkeyed with. To build a rifle off one where there is a high level of accuracy expected is foolish. If better than factory accuracy is desired a mauser makes no sense, just buy a factory rifle there are plenty that are MOA or less.

I say YES do use one of the many remington clones, further I also say get one with a pic rail and recoil lug built in, defiance deviant or bat pic action, You get insane bomb proof scope mounting and an action that is insanely stiffer. so what if the action is 4oz heavier after the savings in scope base weight. you get an action to be proud of not a gunsmith hacked "trued" remington or mauser.

This build would be big game build, moose, elk, deer, hogs, black bear. Nothing seriously dangerous like brown bear or African game. Thanks the Borden Alpine looks like the action I want if I'm going to build a LR gun for sure!! Think I may go back to a Ruger or Winchester action for a general purpose build?

I like Howa's more than anything else.


Travis

BAT.......

Either of those will be fine.

I've never passed up a shot on an animal that I would have taken if my rifle had been built on a Remington clone action instead of a factory action.

I.E. all this mental masturbation over gear selection doesn't really matter in the field. The small amount of precision you may or may not gain with the custom action will be lost in about a thousand other variables that carry more weight.

One may argue that CRF really isn't needed in a deer rifle, but that's not all there is to that by any means.
The classic CRF actions have some really desirable features besides the fact that they are CRF.
For one, you usually have the famous non rotating mauser "claw" for an extractor. Over my 56 yrs. of reloading ammo, I've managed, with a really hot load, to blow a primer out of the case on two occasions. Both times it happend with rifles that used this extractor. Both allowed me to open the bolt and extract the case. No hammering the bolt, etc. Try that sometime with a hook or Remington style extractor.
I really like the fixed blade ejector as well. Never saw one fail. I've had a few brass shavings jam Remington's design.
I really like open style triggers that can be easily cleaned and don't tend to collect debris. The older pre-64 Winchester system is my idea of a proper hunting rifle trigger. Remingtons, however, collect debris thanks to the safety lever location.
And I much appreciate the Winchester M70 safety. Ruger's not as much. But the Ruger can be slicked up enough to make them work w/o much effort.
I like one piece bolts or at least the collar system used on the current M70's.
I might add that some or many of these features can be found on actions which are push feed designs. The Winchester push feed M70's have the safety and trigger of the pre-64's. The tang safety rugers have the mauser claw extractor as well as a one piece bolt. And an open, fully adjustable trigger design. My L579 Sako has a fixed blade extractor as well as a one piece bolt.
While we are on the subject, don't let anyone tell you a custom mauser won't shoot well under 1 MOA with a sporter weight barrel. I've got a group with eight rds. into .8 MOA and six of those were .6 MOA from mine. Does that all the time with a couple of loads. Even the so called less than really accurate Nosler Partition shoots under MOA. E

I prefer a handsome hunting rifle with CRF and a three position wing safety that controls the firing pin. The BAT action shown above is not what I like.

Here is what I prefer. This rifle has a pre-64 M70 action with an aftermarket bbl. in 300 WM. Last Monday it put the first two shots from a cold bbl. into 2" at 200 yds right on. Then the next two into a single hole 1.5" higher with a grain more powder.

I have used Remington, Ruger, Sako and I am about to use a Tikka action for a build.

I would probably pick the Sako as my favorite followed closely by the Remington. I agree with John on the feeding issue's. I have a Wyatt box on my Remington 223 AI and it is a pain the in ass to load.

Borden Alpine

^^this^^

Plus:

I like the easy to disassemble bolts of the various CRF actions and the M70 push feed for inspection and cleaning. I had a Remington misfire on a cold weather deer hunt due to moisture / ice in there. Yes, it was just a deer hunt, but it was a deer hunt in grizzly country. The day before taking the deer that took four tries to make the rifle fire I'd skirted around an elk calf kill very carefully with the rifle at, I thought at the ready, just in case the bear still thought I was too close to his plate. If the bear had been around and cranky, I doubt that it would have waited for those four tries to make the Remington fire.

Where you hunt can be as important as what you hunt in rifle choices.

Mauser actions aren't 'born' tired, some just get shot there. On the other hand, many factory remington 700 actions are abortions from day one. I'd be Leary of taking one 'stock' for any build, if made post '91. It's probably why there are so many custom clones available. I don't discriminate, but prefer CRF Winchesters or commercial mausers for most stuff, though push feeds can usually go lighter.

Are you saying that a CRF won't freeze up?

No, just that their design makes it less likely and that their easy, quick, and tool free to disassemble bolts make it easier to prevent.

Yup, that's a byproduct of having a 1/4 inch of play between the bolt and receiver raceway.

aalf, why BAT over other Rem clones?

I realize BAT makes very good actions, just wondered if there was something special about them.

Beats a 1/4" of play between 700 lugs and their recesses, when locked.

Bat is my favorite action for 1K BR shooting, so the favoritism carries over to the hunting side. When I decided to build my ultimate coyote rifle, I bought the above action for the foundation. Nothing special per se, just my choice.

Now your reaching.....

I'm with Rovering.

Funny when guys come here and talk theory and we have guys here also who live and hunt in Alaska who use 700's and I can't recall hearing stories about them freezing up. If it were a genuine concern, I'm sure they wouldn't use them...........I know I wouldn't.

What Alaska guys are you talking about?

I didn't realize Alaska had the exclusive rights to cold, snow and freezing rain.

Just used Alaska as an example of [bleep] weather yet some how those unreliable PF actions seem to perform.

Tools to disassemble a 700 bolt?

I'd tell em about the bolt lace trick but I think we're dealing with the Velcro closure crowd..........

More like the Crocs crowd!

Billy did someone shanghi your account. How about that high dollar 22.

Referencing your first comment.

A: A ULA/NULA isn't a 700 clone.
B: If affordable 40x 22 repeaters were available, I would be all over one for a trainer that matches my other Remington rifles.

It isn't a PF/CRF thing...the times I have seen freeze ups or gunk ups, it was a trigger/safety issue,a snow/ice/grit thing where the moisture got down into the trigger housing,freezing it up; or snow and ice got into the safety cut out on the stock next to the tang.Another instance the rifle did not go boom was just a couple years worth of good old Wyoming gumbo in the trigger housing...just gunk.

A M70 safety/trigger,or original M98, will shrug off the same treatment without blinking...at least I have never seen them quit.

Rifles like Mausers (some of them),or M70's or Kimber Montanas have three position,shroud mounted safeties that allow them to be quickly and conveniently field stripped without tools for easy cleaning and flushing offending material from the bolt body....easy/peasy and ready to roll if it freezes up.You can buy the same type safety for a Rem 700.

Just coincidentally, these models happen to be CRF.

We can make a M70 or a Mausre fail,but it will take more gunk to do it.. But in cold and snow I have seen a couple of Remingtons go from "go" to "no go" in the matter of a couple of hours under the right conditions.If I wasn't right there to see it I might not believe it either.

Not all Mausers are ex-military junk...if they were a good one would not cost thousands,and if you think all Mauser 98's are junk you don't know much of anything.... The "sloppy" bolt movement was built in by Paul Mauser because it was designed as a manually operated battle rifle;and Mauser knew they would get dirty in the hands of foot soldiers who had no time to keep them clean,and they will shrug off dirt and ice that will shut down some precisely made actions with tighter bolt movement tolerances. A friend tells me his Rem 700 did OK in the blowing sands of the Kalahari but he had to pay a lot of attention to it. But if all you do with a rifle is sit in a blind or flop prone under good conditions,anything will work.

If I were building a 600-1000 yard belly gun I would use a Rem 700 type clone;but for a general purpose, go any where BG rifle, I would use a M70 or a NICE Mauser. But then again all of my hunting and killing has been done inside 500 yards.And I know for certain a well tuned M70 will stay MOA or less to 600 yards.YMMV.

But those BAT's, Bordens, and Templar sure do look nice!

If I did not already own the chitpile of riles I do, the current Ruger M77 action would be my pick.

Ruger Number One...

1950's vintage commercial 98 actions - if you can find them at a reasonable price. I have picked up a couple for less than $500, but it has taken me a lot of time to find them, hence they may not be the best option for the average loony who is going to build a rifle or two a year. I understand why the M700 and clones would appeal to many.

Ultimately, they are inherently a little more reliable and can readily be made into easy sub-MOA rifles. Some of the actions being suggested here are probably inherently a little more accurate, but we are talking a fraction of an inch even beyond 500 yards - which for me just is an irrelevancy. They are also a touch heavier, but again we are only talking an ounce or two.

Personally, I am not a fan of the M70-style safety, as I find it more difficult and slower to operate (I have an arthritic right thumb).

why BAT, they are one of only 2 actions that you can get with a built in scope rail AND recoil lug. defiance deviant being the other. surgeon has the 591 but last I heard they sold the company and no new orders are being taken. The Bat action is a bank vault their actions dominate benchrest and competitions. go look at the equipment list. as remington clones go Bat machine is the very best money can buy.

I have put lots of money into customs over the years, for me if it don't shoot way less than 1 moa why am I bothering to build a custom?? CRF rifles IMO aren't ones that you want to use to build .5moa or less rifles on. most people if they demand CRF would be better off just buying a ruger or one of the new remingtons

I will agree Bat makes one of the better clones, but I wouldn't go as far to say that they are the best, and while the built in rail and lug are great features and they do stiffen the action, I haven't see any proof that they will out shoot a Bighorn,Defiance or Borden, but the rail does add weight so a person wanting a little lighter rifle won't want or need a built in rail, but if I was strickly a picatinny user a VRPIC makes total sense!

I would throw a vote toward a commercial mauser. I picked up my first Interarms Mk X in .270 a couple of years ago for well south of $300, and it definitely won't be my last. Commercial mausers come drilled and tapped, scope appropriate bolt handle, and a they should have decent trigger. Other than rebarreling to the cartridge of your choice, they are a pretty turnkey approach to a customized rifle. I picked up a sporterized g33/40 about a year ago,and while it's going to be a much more expensive project, the action IMO is the pinnacle of the mauser 98's evolution. (military, not including brno 21/22) It would be my choice if you are planning anything on the .30-06 or 7x57 case.

Kimber 84L or similar lightweight, '06-length, CRF action. Also like the 6-lug Weatherby.

A good version of the '98 Mauser, including the commercial varieties. These are the closest to perfect hunting rifle actions I can imagine.

Feeding is legendary, positive and reliable extraction and ejection, gas handling in case of case rupture is better than all the rest. Yes, the action is somewhat less stable than some more modern actions; yes, the recoil lug could be bigger, and yes the gunsmithing bill will be higher than most in a fine custom job. Is there a better action for a top drawer custom hunting rifle? No.

If you can find a commercial Oberndorf M98 from the mid-30s, you are in tall cotton.

I have never understood the application of a rail on a hunting rifle. It may be that there is a good reason to have one, I just don't know what it is. And I can see a lot of down side to them.

What are the downsides you see?

I also vote the Mauser 98. I like the claw, but I really like the big bolt release. Had a Howa that I broke the screw that holds the bolt release. Upon calling Howa was told " it is not a battle rifle." Pretty BS answer to me, so I switched over to Mausers because they were originally a battle rifle - hunting should be a walk in the park for them.

You can save yourself a lot of headache with them too if you know what to look for when you purchase.

I had a pierce action put together with a HS mag

I did originally want a CRF because I hate the noise a PF makes when a round rattles into the chamber, if I'm feeling rich I might still get one

The action that no one seems to mention is the McMillan CRF that is what I'm keeping my eye on

My favorites in order:

Surgeon

BAT

Defiance Machine

Neither am I. I think it is highly overrated. Does it work and work well? Mostly. I think it is awkward to manipulate and noisy. I do, however, like the mod 70 trigger and think it is highly underrated. I have several mod 70s and love them but prefer a different safety.