I have a win m70 short action that I am going to have rebarreled and can't decide between the two. This will be a light weight walk in the woods build with 20" barrel, leupold 4x, and mc edge. Anyone have experience with both, pros cons? Bullet weight 120, 130, 140 for white tails and black bear maybe moose.
How long is the magazine box?
For your application, a well built rifle in either will suit you just fine. I love 260. Mine is as accurate as any rifle I own. But precision freaks would bend toward the 6.5 Lapua due to its use of small rifle primers and longer neck from its BR pedigree.
If I were trying to pry every iota of accuracy out of a dedicated gun, I'd build Lapua. But I might lean .260 in a hunting rifle. If you build a quality stick in any of the 6.5's that are rightly popular these days, including Creedmoor, you'll be pleased
Either would work, as would the creedmoor. The limiting factor with a M70 short action is the magazine box which won't fit more than 2.860" without removing the spacer. I've taken out the spacer for a 257 Roberts but never got it to feed quite right, so I'd be hesitant to do that again. Many 140 gr 6.5mm bullets are long and in a 260 they're going to have to be seated real deep to keep OAL inside 2.860", that itself would make me lean away from the .260. The 6.5x47 is a great round but I'd probably lean towards a creedmoor in a M70, shorter case than the 260 so no bullet seating problems, but same case capacity.
I'll take a 6.5x47 everyday and twice on Sunday....
I'll take a 6.5x47 everyday and twice on Sunday....
.... or it's below zero out. My x47 schitt the bed more than once in super cold weather.... much to my disgust. It would drop 100-200fps... and POI would walk. I tried several primers... but no luck. It lives in the south now.... I think it's much happier.
Shooting both side by side I couldn't see any performance difference. My x47 was a bit more accurate.... but an MTU contour vs. a #4... and 10 extra pounds for the 'pua ain't exactly apples to apples.
X47... .260..... Creed.... doesn't really matter. I bet you'd not know one from the other in an identical gun. You can run into some OAL issues with both the .260 and Creed.... but you also have a little more boom room in those two. Either way.... a mid-size 6.5 is never a bad way to go.
Had a creedmoor and have a 6.5x47 that will arrive next week. Either of those 2 would get my vote leaning more towards the 6.5x47 no need for the added case capacity with the short barrel.
Dog, The SR primer was the first thing I thought when I read above about the Lapua case as a hunting rifle. I live in NE WA St. and it can be 30 below here during late buck so I like lots of flame to get em started. I use 125 NPT's and I-4350 and Fed 215's in my 260.-Muddy
I'll take a 6.5x47 everyday and twice on Sunday....
.... or it's below zero out. My x47 schitt the bed more than once in super cold weather.... much to my disgust. It would drop 100-200fps... and POI would walk. I tried several primers... but no luck. It lives in the south now.... I think it's much happier.
A while back I asked on the forum if anyone had experience with the 6.5x47 in cold temperatures and if there were any issues with delayed ignition or no bang at all. My questions were not answered to my satisfaction so I had one build over the summer and went out today in -33F (not counting windchill which was -47.2F) and wanted to see for myself. I left the rifle and ammunition exposed on the bench for the entire session (3 hours) and then fired several shots prior to packing up and going home. Load was 36.3gr Varget with a cci450 and 140 bergers. Every single load went bang perfectly just like in the summer. No delay or anything. My group and POI was unchanged as well. I was going to use 22-250 in cold weather if needed but I won't have to go through that now. The cci450's and varget work perfectly in -33F and if you've been wondering if small primers will be a problem, perhaps I have given you some useful information.
Don't want any clicks and no bang with a buck in front of me. Those small primers really a problem? Next build will be for longer range m70 6.5x55 if that matters.
I shot my heavy 6.5x47L in cold a bit this year. At -10F it chrono'd, held POI, and grouped the same as at more pedestrian temps.
I shot a tactical style shoot on a day that hovered around -20F. Never did anything funny, I actually shot a slightly better score than I did on that course in August. That well behaved load is 36 Varget - CCI 400 - 140 Hybrid.
Done all my big game hunting the last two years with a 6.5x47L, haven't had any issues there either.
Will say I got beat on some targets in nasty wind one day by a partner shooting the same 140's 300 fps faster out of a 260, but he's running more barrel and more pressure. Between our two rifles, mine shoots tight aggs more easily. I definitely can reach the throat inside the mag confines more reliably as well.
I'll take a 6.5x47 everyday and twice on Sunday....
Why? I'm in the same boat as the OP and have been trying to make up my mind but I'm considering the Creedmoor too.
I've got three 6x47's and two 6.5x47's, and they all hammer.
I've had enough 260's to feel the 47 has an accuracy advantage.
I'll take Lapua brass over Hornady.
The 1.850" case length of the 47 is the cat's ass for a 2.800" mag length restriction w/o impeding on the powder.
Wonder how cold it is in Finland where the 47 was born?
Well I am just scratching the surface and love the 47, though would never scoff at a Creedmoor. Had a 6.5-08 built prior to the Rem version of the A-Square -
Truth told, if one has a 20" bbl, a 47 is PERFECT, as would be a Creedmoor or 260 as performance will be very close. Blast is MY beef and I would go with a 47 for that reason alone.
In practical terms, given same speeds roughly, game will never know the diff, and using a 4x, on a sporter, the shooter likely would never shoot the accuracy diff in the field - therefore it's a toin coss.
Cold weather primer ignition confidence if in doubt, can be cured running the other 2.
Aalf, no arguement here - the 47 was pure accuracy built from ground up as the winning 6BR, as you know. Also prefer Lapua vs Hornady brass. I think brass life is more in question than consistency of CM brass, fwiw.
Wonder how cold it is in Finland where the 47 was born?
Probably not too cold when they're shooting matches.... seeing as that's what 90% of so chambered rifles are built for.... and that's what said cartridge was designed for. Kinda funny that it ain't been chambered in a T3... or a Sako... seems if it were that awesome a hunting round, Lapua's Finnish companion might make a few.
Ignition in the cold was a problem for me with the x47.... hang-fires, POA/POI disharmony, and funky velocities more than once... I know Pat had some issues too. The x47 was never designed to be an all-around hunting/tac cartridge... if it's gettin' hunted between Sept. and April.... it's getting an LR primer.
My sporter weight .260 has pounded enough 1/2 MOA groups out to 600+.... that I'm not too concerned about the slight accuracy 'advantage' of the x47.... and it does it over a much broader spectrum of ambient temps.
I'd be first line in line, and requested long ago Sako to do so...of course with Beretta running the show, NOT likely - at least to import here.
I had a sporter 260, shot under .2 MOA at 100 and 200 yds, never owned it long enough to test more, as it was sold to pay for MBA school....
Having tinnitus and detesting any extra blast, less is more for me often times, and ignition never been a problem to date. I cannot speak for others, but do hear CCI 450s are the way to go in the 47. Would be curious if those have failed in the field in a 47, due to temps.
What powder was giving strange SDs - was it any chance due to powder? Or simply not enough spark?
Always good to hear the pros/cons, and the conditions things happen in.
H4350 and Varget both gave erratic results... with several different primers; Rem, CCI, and Win. I did not try the 450s... because I never could find any. Furthermore, any cartridge that requires a single specific component (powder, primer, or bullet) to be reliable... ain't very reliable in my book. The .260 doesn't care what primer I put in it... it shoots the same.
Also, I've run the same powders with the same bullets in the .260... in same/similar weather with no adverse effects... beats me... maybe it's psychosomatic?
Why not just throttle back on the .260/Creed a bit... for less muzzle blast and equal velocity to the x47?
Be warned with the M70 and the 6.5X47 Lapua case. I've built two of them, a 6.5 and 6mmX47 Lapua on the FN SPR action. These actions had a .080" diameter firing pin tip and they blanked the SR primers on the Lapuas with even very mild loads...perfect circular disc cutout the diameter of the firing pin hole. I ended up bushing both of the bolts and turning the firing pin down to .070". Problem solved on both, no more blanked primers.
It doesn't get very cold in Texas. Give me a 47L and call it good.
I've got three 6x47's and two 6.5x47's, and they all hammer.
I've had enough 260's to feel the 47 has an accuracy advantage.
I'll take Lapua brass over Hornady.
The 1.850" case length of the 47 is the cat's ass for a 2.800" mag length restriction w/o impeding on the powder.
Any of the 3 would suit me just fine I'm sure, but I'm going 6.5x47L for all the reasons above. Does the SRP hinder ignition in cold temps? Some say yes, and others say no. What I do know is if it's -30 degrees outside it won't matter to me because I ain't going to be outside. Killing a deer ain't life and death to me.
Fling 123's in a 6.5x284 and find a smith to feed that longer box.
W
I think I am going to go .260. To punch it ai or not?
H4350 and Varget both gave erratic results... with several different primers; Rem, CCI, and Win. I did not try the 450s... because I never could find any. Furthermore, any cartridge that requires a single specific component (powder, primer, or bullet) to be reliable... ain't very reliable in my book. The .260 doesn't care what primer I put in it... it shoots the same.
Also, I've run the same powders with the same bullets in the .260... in same/similar weather with no adverse effects... beats me... maybe it's psychosomatic?
Why not just throttle back on the .260/Creed a bit... for less muzzle blast and equal velocity to the x47?
Good advise here, H4350 in particular is hard to ignite. CCI450's and Russian SR Mag primers may cure a lot of ills on Varget also. Trouble is, you have to find 450's.
I watched a friend struggle with small rifle primers with 4064, hang fire city.
R#15 is probably a lot easier to ignite vs H4350 with a small rifle primer.
Big E, That's when the Big's come out here! (and 2" of group size don't matter)-Muddy
Funny how component availability varies around the country. CCI450's are about the only primers readily available where I'm at through this whole mess, I've got several thousand of them. I use them in my 6 BR and I'm having a 6.5x47L built that will get a bunch of them too I'm sure. The 6.5x47 is going to be a lightweight deer rifle on a Borden action, with a M70 I might have chosen the creedmoor. Cold weather down here is anything less than about 50 so I'm not too worried about any potential ignition problems. I decided on the 6.5x47 partially because of the small rifle primers, I fell in love with them after the 6 BR and seeing single digit ES's on the chronograph with them. Also, I'm going to be shooting lightweight TSX's through it and the small case seemed perfect for those to make a light kicker.
Dogshooter, good point on the supply issue. Not had any issues in LA to date but it seems a few have had problems in extreme temps.
No doubt one can throttle any round back, though I don't see much diff in speeds.
Crow Hunters, sounds like a nice rifle, I have built 3 Alpines, and plan for one more. What will be your build specs? No doubt the TSX/TTSX will be the bomb, in fact you may be shooting the 100s, and yes lower recoil will be had, if shooter longer ranges I would use a 120 BT or 120 TTSX, though my go to has been a 130 AB for 260s and 6.5x55 in the past, and they drop deer quickly, as many 6.5 pills seem to do.
Keith, what rifle and round was your friend plaqued with?
Wrangler,
1) I would go 21-21.5 on a 260
2) If you want a 'Cat' - take a look below...you might like it.
http://www.6mmar.com/65_SuperLR.php
Crow Hunters, sounds like a nice rifle, I have built 3 Alpines, and plan for one more. What will be your build specs?
65,
It's an Alpine, just got an e-mail from Jim Borden that the action is ready to ship today. Jon Beanland in OK is going to put it together with a #2 Bartlein 8.5 twist at 22" in a Mcmillan hunter's edge stock with PT&G aluminum Oberndorf bottom metal. I am throating it for the 100 gr. TTSX's, around my hunting area the longest shot is around 300 yds. I can always step to a heavier bullet if I hunt other areas. It should make for a nice relatively light mild mannered deer machine.
Sounds like a good great build, Seafire has used 100s to good effect on deer, namely Hornady and Noslers, the TTSX at 3,300 should flatten anything you hit at your ranges.
FWIW, light bullets have less "Gain" as you increase capacity. The 260 will do very well, but so will a Creedmoor, and Jon has bulet many that bughole. I would consider factory ammo quality/price/performance and word has it Nosler will be making brass and perhaps Ammo, as Winchester, and I would not be surprised that Lapua follows. Less issue w/case/neck stretch than 260, though not bad like a 243.
Enjoy your new build and post pics of rifle and targets when you can.
I am a .260 shooter. Being able to use M118LR brass to make .260 brass is a major bonus for me. My lilja tuned Remington is a very consistent .3 moa shooter with 142 SMKs, when I can actually find them....
Sounds like a good great build, Seafire has used 100s to good effect on deer,
I have hunted for blacktail deer with Seafire in Southern OR 10 years ago, and there are trees. Since then I have started hunting Eastern MT and there are few trees. I am giving up on my 260s and have bought a 6.5-06 reamer this year and a #3 Stainless select match Caliber 6.5x8 Ratchet twist barrel. The mule buck I shot with a 7mmRM in October 2013 was heavy and 477 yards away.
I had Jon Beanland build my 6.5x47 on a Mdl 7 action.
Rock bbl #4 taper, 8 twist cut to 22.5" HS stock bedded by Jon, Rem trigger tuned by Jon. Scope is a Swaro 6x
It shoots 123 A-Max .2s@100yds with H4350.
I have killed several deer with the A-Max.
"Keith, what rifle and round was your friend plaqued with?
22 Cheatah with the small rifle primer, and the load was 42g of IMR 4064 with a 52g Berger.
Its hard to pick a looser with the mid velocity 6.5 s. I have the Creedmoor and love it. I've chronoed mine down to-45�F ambient temperature no wind. It gets to the point with H4350 and Varget that its not the powder you need to worry about but rather increased pressure from the barrel constricting from the cold.
RL 15 kindof falls on its face in cold weatherwhich is why I need to work up Varget loads in my 9.3�64 Brenneke. 40 below is caribou hunting weather often times. The Creed has proven to be an awesome round for my use up here. With 3 manufacturers of brass now it is IMO the go to mid vel 6.5 round and its easy to make brass for if things get tight.
But, if someone gave me a 47 Lapua or a 260 I would sure enjoy wearing its barrel out slowly!!!! Like I say, they are all winners
Keith - 243 parent case? If so, maybe much with such a small bore n SR primer. Sounds like 308 SR/BR brass...Salazar saw no benefit.
Congrats on the nice Mulie Clarke - dumped a WT deer at 400 w/6BR. Alan- aka "GSSP" has taken some real nice animals around 500 with a 47 using 127/129s. Good luck w/build.
CTF - where are you located? Welcome to the fire.