Were any of the "commercial" Mauser actions made with full C-ring broaching? or did they all have the H-ring actions?

Frank de Haas in his book "Bolt Action Rifles" states on page 174: FN actions were made at first with the full inside collar, just as in the M98 military action, with the collar slotted on the right side for the extractor. At some point FN began to fudge and, thereafter, slotted the collar on the left as well, leaving only partial collars top and bottom.

I have never seen one as the FN action on my Husqvarna is slotted on both sides. (I don't remember looking for it on a FN action in a Sears Model 50 I once owned.)

Hope that helps.

All of the Obendorf Mauser Sporting rifles I have are of the C-ring type.

I have one each of the FN commercial actions in H-ring and C-ring.

Just now I don't have to hand or recall if the Santa Barbara actions are H or C ring.

Okay, does anyone know exactly which FN actions were C-ring? Especially as they might relate to the Higgins branded rifles?

I believe it was only the very early models. Most are H cuts which are just fine by me.

I read they made the change during 1948.

The Brno ZG-47's have the C-ring.

My post 1955 Higgins M50 is an H-ring.

Thanks. Obviously, I'm interested in a C-ring commercial action, but don't really know where to begin looking.

I have an FN Mauser from 1948 with a c-ring....the rest of my FN's and 2 Husqvarna's are all h-ring......all from the 1950's or later.

I've got a 1955 Higgins 51 that is in the H configuration.

I'll bet this has been discussed before, but what's the practical difference between a "C" and and "H"?

Some folks claim the C ring to be a stronger action and essential for big bore applications, others will go as far as saying that H rings are not M98's because they don't follow the oringinal design.

A lot of us got over it a long time ago and use H rings without a second thought. They are both proven designs.

Wrong. It has nothing to do with strength. Gas handling was the reason for Peter and Paul to not have broached the action face with the left hand cut. This was to help prevent gas from running down the left bolt lug raceway. The thumbcut was intentionally made in that manner to vent the gas in the event gas did make it down the left side.

Just buy a Parker-Hale or Whitworth branded Zastava action and you are good. Or just use a nice m98.

I have several Brno VZ24 actions, they all have the 'C' cut, I thought that the early FN's were cut the same, minus the stripper clip notch and loading cut.
I guess I have been incorrect all this time, not once have I seen an early FN made '98 here in Australia, they've all been 60's or later era actions.

Cheers.

I guess you missed the part "some folks claim.* I've heard many argue that gas handling was the main reason for C rings and thumb cuts and post patent drawings of gas coming out a thumb cut, but it's a fact that the Oberndorf Mauser factory produced C ring sporters WITHOUT the thumb cut! So much for that theory trying to be represented as fact. I think it's very possible Mr. Mauser himself abandoned that theory realizing the magazine was best place to dump the gas.

A lot of the things the man tried were just trial and error. That's why there are so many variants. He may have abandoned the C ring concept himself had he lived longer. There are many valid points to both sides of that argument. Truth be known he may have seen it as a duel benifit. Trying to get in the head of a 177 year old man and call others out on pure speculation is nothing more than mental gymnastics and a waste of time.

Some claim it was for strength
Some claim it was for gas handling.

I have, use, like and feel very comfortable using both. That said, I'm glad my 100+year old case hardened models are C ring.

H ring was made because it was cheaper to produce. it certainly isnt an improvement in any way.

Exactly. That said, they seem to work well.

I've owned a couple of the Sears rifles and both had H rings. I think they were all made after the change. I also had a 1951 FN deluxe .270 with the H ring.

Last month, I picked up a sporter on Gunbroker built on a 1948 FN barreled action with a left-handed stock. It has the C ring. As noted above, 1948 appears to be the cut-off date for the C rings.

I was glad to get this rifle, but would have still bought it, C ring or not as it's a great rifle and was a bargain at $456. The C ring is a nice touch, but really not that big a deal. Any FN of that era is well worth owning and using. The C ring is supposed to handle escaping gas better. A better idea is to avoid doing things that generate escaping gas. That's how I've managed to hunt with the notoriously gassy pre-64 M70 for thirty-some years and keep my complexion as lovely(!) as ever.

Sarco has Dumoulin actions for $295 with M70-type safety and other goodies. Check out the Dumoulin website and be prepared to drool. I seem to recall seeing a photo of one of these that showed the C collar, but can't be sure. Like other actions offered in the white, these may require heat treatment. Ask before you buy.

I'm not sure if you meant to say so, but the thumb cut had nothing to do with gas handling; it's there to facilitate loading with a stripper clip. The potential gas relief was a side benefit. The elimination of the cut makes the action stiffer, and probably saved money too. IMHO, the thumb cut actually looks slightly more attractive, especially on a trim custom rifle.

When Paul Mauser applied for the patent on the thumb cut he submitted drawings on it's purpose and benefits. ONE OF THE BENIFITS HE CLAIMED FOR THE THUMB CUT WAS GAS HANDLING and the drawing submitted for the patent application plainly shows just that. I wish I still had access to the drawing but can't find it at the moment. There were NEVER any claims as to what the C ring was for. Some claim it was for gas handling others claim strength. It's all speculation and it may very well have been for both. The company clearly swayed away from this thinking on gas handling and thumb cuts because they later sold factory sporters without the thumb cut but with the C ring still in tact.

I'm in perfect agreement about the esthetics of the thumbcut and even had it added to one of my customs that didn't have it already.


The point of the post was in reguards to another post that claimed the C ring was only for gas handling. There is absolutely no proof that this was Paul Mausers only intention for this item. You have to remember that in his time these were only case hardened and little extra metal didn't hurt anything.

The Domoulin Herstal Mauser action is not a C ring, it has the H cut and does not require heat treating.

Since the patent application is presumably in German anyway, I think we'll just take your word for it. I remember just about enough German from high school to ask where the library is and order a sausage and bier. I still think the gas relief was a side benefit, not the original intent, but no biggie either way.

A man that has a thumb cut added has serious Mauser issues! Good for you.

I read once of a man that added the cut to a M70 in .458 to make it easier to load in a tight spot. He used a file, cut it too deep, and had to cycle the bolt carefully to keep from catching the left bolt lug in the hole. Whoops.

Guilty as charged.

What action is that? Did you go for the Timney Deluxe? My 1948 needs a new trigger for sure, but I want to keep the original wing safety- my Mauser issue!

That's a Charles Daly Mini Mauser. Yes, it's Timney Deluxe. Most of the time I just go with the Sportsman model because of the price but will say the Deluxe is a very nice trigger and a definite upgrade from the Sportsman.

It's a pretty neato rifle rifle. It made the cover of the 2010 American Custom Gunmakers Guild quarterly magazine.

That's a peach. Way out of my price bracket for sure.

What cartridge? (I almost said caliber, which would have made me the target of severe poo flinging)

.223 Remington 1 in 8" twist.

Insanity in anyone's language. Looks good though.

Glad to read about the "H" vs. "C" debate. I acquired a 1954 FN action (with "H" cut) for a 6.5-06 project. I was told by several that the action was "no good" for high pressure rounds and I should go with 6.5x55. I put it on the back burner and found a Colt Light Rifle that is gonna go to NULA to be made into a 6.5-06.
Reading this now sets my mind at ease on using this action for a high pressure cartridge. Now I just need to decide on what to make it!? For some reason 400 Whelen seems popular in this community

Browning used the very same FN actions as Sears for their line of rifles before they changed to the current design. All were H ring. They chambered those rifles all the way up to the large magnum cartridges such as the .338 win. mag., the .300 Win Mag, and the 458 Win. Mag.

One thing I can tell you is that we have about 10 or 12 different mauser actions here in our shop for programming and fitting purposes. Many are old mititary actions, some are early Husky's, some FN commercial. Every one that has a thumb cut has the stripper clip slots cut in the rear ring. All the ones with no thumb cut have no stripper clip slots. The correlation is 100%. I suspect this should tell us something. I wonder about depressing the cartridges from the stripper clip into the rifle with the left hand. I seem to want to do this with the right hand, but based on the thumb cut perhaps it was intended to be one with the left.
Dick at McMillans

Oops, last sentence should end with "done with the left".

Don't know for sure, but it seems logical that the original intention of the design was to allow the soldier to hold the rifle by the grip with the right hand, place the stripper in the slot, push the rounds home with the left thumb, pull the clip, and then shift the left hand to the forend so the right hand can run the bolt home.

With a scoped sporter, I think I would balance the rifle on my right thigh while holding it around the action with my left hand. The right hand would place rounds on the follower with the left thumb assisting as needed to push them into the magazine.

I don't currently have a rifle with the thumb cut to practice that, but that can be fixed!

for a few dollars more... Alaska Arms makes a M-70 clone for mauser

[img:left][/img]

Imo, fwiw, neither the H cut makes an action any less desirable nor does a thumb slot detract from accuracy.

Curious how many H ring FN alone produced...more than three...:)

2014! Yikes!

I did manage to acquire a 98 with a thumb cut a few years ago, a Heym .308 with not only the cut, but a C-ring and a clip guide. It came from a shop in North Pole, Alaska.

All the original Mauser Sporting rifles were C ring and so were the FN actions until 1948-49
I have one FN action with a C ring and the date 1948 stamped on the ring.

I have a Husqvarna 9.3x62 with an FN C ring action. The thumb cut also allows for gas escape along the left rail.

My first 6.5x06 was built by Hart on a commercial Mauser action, Hart barrel, cherry wood stock with basket weave checkering, wish I had a picture but that was about two HD crashes ago. Seems like it had a C ring with the Mauser banner and no left side recess cut. Won several 100 yard running deer matches with it.

Have no idea why anyone would think a 98 Mauser was not strong enough for a 6.5x06, like saying it is not strong enough for a 270 Win, only a .013 difference in bullet diameter in an otherwise virtually identical cartridges. I use 270 brass to make my 6.5x06 brass, just trim, I do not own a 270.