Here's the deal. About a month ago I sent a bolt off to be fluted. The guy said that he was running bolts that Friday, and if I could get it there before then, it would ship out Priority Mail on Monday.

I sent the bolt via FedEx, and it arrived on Thursday.

I called Thursday night to confirm reciept, but got what sounded like a Son. When I asked if they received the bolt, he only said "yeah", but couldn't tell me who it was from or what type it was. That was my first hint that I'd made a mistake.

According the USPS, the package should have arrived at my place the following Wednesday or Thursday, but no show. No big deal I thought, probably a few days behind with the holidays.

I called a week later, and the owner told me that he had shipped it back on that Monday, like he had promised. He told me that another he had shipped at the same time had arrived just the day before. Still before Christmas, so I figured I was fine.

Fast forward another week, and still no bolt. I called again and asked for a tracking number. He tells me that it's in the house, and he'll have to call me back later. No problem.

That night there is a message on my home answering machine saying that he tried to track the package, but it wouldn't track (whatever that means), but he does not leave a tracking number. Now I'm very suspicious.

All of a sudden, communication has stopped. He used to pick up his cell phone every time (his son gave me the number). Now it rings once and goes to voice mail (i.e., he sends it to voice mail when he sees that it's me). He has also not returned my last two calls asking for a tracking number, ship date, and address that he shipped to.

I'm sitting here out a bolt, the cost of fluting, the shipping cost, and looking at running down a new bolt and paying to have it headspaced. Of course, it just put me behind on a project as well.

What would you do in this situation?

Try calling from a different phone # preferably from another state,see if he picks up.

what town and state? maybe someone here can ask nicely <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

woofer

Damn CAS, that sucks! Does he have an email? I would do like was posted above and try to call from another number and see if he picks up. And if he doesn't, I would leave a message that he owed me a bolt, so he better file an insurance claim with the shipper for a lost package etc to get me the money for a new one.

I too would be suspicious, but also realize that it is the holidays and he may have his cell turned off. I would leave a message stating that you understand this on his cell and home. But in that message state that you EXPECT a prompt reply with tracking number. If you don't recieve a reply within a day or two, leave another stating that you will go-to every shooting/hunting related board and explain in detail what has happened, and that you have been left no other recourse but legal action. This will give him 3-4 days to respond, (more than enough time) and then follow thru with said threats.--Mike

I just talked to the guy, and he gave me a number, but the USPS website says that there is no record of that number. The the guy tells me that it's only an insurance number, and can't be tracked.

I then find out that he only insured it for $100. That ain't quite going to cover a new bolt!

CAS,
Take the Insurance Number to your local Post Office, they should be able to track it with their internal system.

Good Luck,
HBB

Cas-I sent you a pm-Keith

I sure hope this works out and you get your bolt back. If it does not please let us know so noone else gets burned. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Cant say if the dude is being straight with you, but I've had a priority mail package lost for nearly 3 weeks. It REALLY sucks and is frustrating to no end when the USPS says there aint nothing they can do to track it. BTDT

I'm going to send you a package tommorrow. Take your time and wait for your next job, I'm in no rush.

I feel your pain and it sucks. I would rather have your cituation than mine. HD Rifles has my money, a new Mike Rock barrel, Mcmillan stock, Sako action and the money to cover putting it all together. Two years now and still no rifle, but "It is being finished up and is first in line." It has been for two years. I would gladly swap you my problem for your's <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I honestly think I am out the whole works on my project <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Flinch

damn flinch, that sucks i would be driving my but to hd rifles and do a lil talking to who ever is in charge there, thats unacceptable
it definately sucks to be in both of your situations

I believe it might be time to make a personal appearance at HD Rifles and give him the option of returning the stuff and refunding the money or try really hard to have him charged with fraud and theft of personal property and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

What HD is doing is shameful

Good Luck,

HBB

Flinch .... sounds like me and CPR. Supplied 100% of components with a promised 6 week turn-around time and I paid 50% of labor costs up-front...what a zoo with an endless string of excuses. All they had to do was fit, chamber and flute the barrel, install a custom trigger, and bed the McMillan stock I sent. The action was a custom job and didn't need any work.

When I finally received it, well over a year later, the rifle had been bedded so badly (action was so crooked the floorplate extended more than 1/4" above the stock on one side and sunken in the same on the other) no way to salvage it and I certainly wasn't going to send it back so chucked it and started over with another McMillan stock. The only good part is the rifle is a real shooter so they did did a good job fitting on the metal work. I wish I had been smarter and just had Pac-Nor do the work as it would have been much, much less expensive and I would have had the rifle in a timely manner.

well, if you mailed it to him, and you paid him with a USPS money order, and he did not do the work, that's mail fraud, and a postal inspector should be your next stop.

If you used other methods of shipping or payment, you might be screwed.

To be fair, I am not certain that the guy in question is to blame here. I did ask if I could send a FedEx label for return shipping, and he declined, but that's here nor there now.

He did offer to find me a new bolt if this one does not show up, but I'd still need to get the headspace checked, and if that needs to be adjusted, it's going to cost a hell of a lot more than $100 to get things back to where they were.

USPS did say that they could neither track the package, nor even tell me if it was ever shipped. StumpJumper has offered to use some connections to look into it for me, and I appreciate his offer.

Hopefully this will get resolved soon.

Flinch,
I remember over a year ago discussing that project with you. I'm stunned that it's not done yet.

If you can get your parts and money back from Jeff, let me know and I will hook you up with two different guys who will get your rifle put together in SHORT order (they've turned stuff for me in less than a week) and get you up and running.

Flinch,

That's 'Celts' company right?

Come to think of it, I haven't seen him post in awhile.

oops, double tap...

Like another posted above, it's not that rare to have a package disappear for a while. It will almost always show up though. To wit: I had a renter of mine send me a check for the monthly rent. I live two miles from the duplex (now sold). A week went by and no check. Since these people were normally very prompt, I called the wife and asked if they had sent it. She had. They sent me another one.

Three weeks later, the first check shows up with a postmark that indicated it had been routed through COLORADO SPRINGS!!!.

I'm betting your bolt will show up sooner or later.. If the postmark shows a far different city on the pass-through, I would suspect the guy who fluted the bolt is telling the truth..

Best of luck CAS...

Flinch, if you mailed it to him contact the Postmaster General and file a claim against the guy for using the mail to defraud. That will put the Feds on him. You could contact your state Attorney General or office of consumber protection in Texas for help. They usually do a good job in cases such as yours. Best regards, Mickey

He's big into tactical rifles....I'd post your problems on www.snipersparadise.com and other tactical sites.

BW, it is Celt's company that I am dealing with. He doesn't dare post anywhere, especially here. Everyone at snipershide and other websites are well aware of his poor business practices. It is too bad, because he is talented.

Mickey, thanks for the heads up. Had I known you a year earlier, you would of had the project along with the .22-250 tight twist on the Sako. It just might be worth a plane ticket to Texas to get my stuff. This is sure getting old in a big hurry. Flinch

Flinch,
I had my credit card company go after them, and I now have a "temporary credit" for the cost of the rifle I bought from them. I'm not out for the components, though. My sympathies, and best of luck,
Don

Doc and others, be aware that can affect your credit rating negatively... may not apply to you, but if others have marginal credit and are looking to buy a house, etc., such a claim could spoil their chances... food for thought.

CAS, hope it works out for ya bud.

Flinch, I'd do what Mickey suggests... that seems like good advice. A plane trip might be in order too. From the sounds of his work I'd sooner have the componants back than a completed rifle...

I got it worked out. It looks like the bolt did get shipped, but USPS just took forever to get it here.

When they did finally get it here, the substitute mail carrier (my regular is on vacation) failed to leave a notice that they had tried to deliver.

I need to give a HUGE thanks to StumpJumper, who used a connection to get it tracked down for me. I had tried to get it tracked myself, to no avail. StumpJumper came through in grand fashion though.

The bolt is now in my grubby little mits, ready to be put to use.

Brad,
How so? I was not aware that filing a claim could negatively affect credit.

I wonder what the reasoning for the negative effect was?

I learn something new every day.

I shipped a scope I sold to a guy in MO from CO once via USPS Priority. He kept saying he did not get it. The post office could not track it. I forgot to put delivery confirmation on the package too. Three weeks went by and the guy wanted his money back. I went to the post office and they told me they would open a case on the package to track it down somehow. i told the guy that it was in the works with the post office investigations, and he quickly responded that he coincidentally got it that day! Liar, should have drove to MO, got out of my truck, punched him in the face and drove back to CO for all the hassle he put me through.

I am in a simular position in that i put my bear into a taxidermist in Sept 04 and still have not received it, he never returns my e-mails etc and when i ring him he tells me it is in the post and it takes "ages to get to england" any way i rang him on the 27 dec and told him that if i dont get a tracking # from him by 6th Jan i will contact the police with an alligation of fraud and that i would contact every gun store in the city and ruin him, at this stage of the conversation he got a might pissed, i pointed out to him that he was ripping me off and not vice versa, i emailed him to confirm our conversation and have got everything ready to send to the cops in Sudbury ONT.
good luck

CAS it's not supposed to, shouldn't and "usually" won't but it "might" ding you a few points... if someone's credit is on the bubble and are preparing for a house purchase I'd hold out just to be prudent! I would absolutely, however, dispute a charge if necessary... I had to dispute those bastards at Cambridge Camera in NYC over Leica's that were never shipped... one more reason to buy from Doug at Cameraland!

Clear as mud I know...

PS, congrat's on the bolt!

CAS,

Glad it worked out, how was the workmanship? I may use 'em on my upcoming project.

Flinch,

I sure feel for ya, that project should'va been completed along time ago. Since Celt had to eat the first barrel I guess he figures he better just recoup his losses by keeping your rifle. I helped the guy out when he first started out, sent him pics of a homemade oven I built for baking GunKote. He modified it for commercial use and then ridiculed me for as if he came up with the design (I'm not into commercial recoating). Thats what I get for helping the fella out..................ungrateful bastard!

MtnHtr

That's good to know. Thanks Brad.

MH,
He did a fantastic job on the bolt.

I'll post pictures tonight.

Next time send it to Chris Mathews at Long Shot Rifles. I had a bolt spiral fluted and the bolt nob slotted for my 7mm ultra and it came out great. prices was resonable and it was done when he said it would be.

Chris sure does do good work. I didn't know he did spiral fluting, good to know.

I'm going to give this guy another chance. It turns out that he followed through on his end, and did a really nice job. I'm just going to insist that he use my FedEx shipping label to return the next bolt to me.

Glad to know you got the package. For some reason I just knew it was the USPS that gave your bolt the roundabout route..

I use USPS nearly exclusively and I ALWAYS use the 'delivery confirmation' option.

FWIW I used a guy in CO. Springs for a bolt fluting (can't recall the name offhand) and it was delivered within the time frame promised and the job was first class. It was used in an all-black custom M70 /A-3 McMillan/Leupold-topped rifle I built for a car dealer this last year. The fluting made quite a difference in the esthetics of the rifle when completed.

Best of luck in your project.

No one ever ridiculed anyone about an over, in fact, I never used any oven plans anyone gave me. We built an oven from sheet steel that uses an industrial oven heating coil.

I am not sure why you would say that!

As for the customer service thing and HDR being my business..
Well it isnt my business anymore and any decisions made on rifles and such are not mine to make.
Sure Clay and myself screwed things up along with a worthless acountant that said we had what we didnt.

I just work on guns here now and have no say about crap really.

I certainly never ridiculed anyone about an oven design.

I have only used two ovens in my years doing this. One was made with heat lamps and could do one ata time. It worked well and that was 5 years ago. The other is the one I described above.

I vaguely remember someone sending me an oven plan at one time, and if it was you,,. Thank you.

Celt

Celt.......any comment on the gun that has been there for two years.......the least you could do is box up the parts and send them back to the owner.....

Like I said. It is not my call anymore.
The rifle in question now shoots about 5/8" with factory ammo. It does not make the 1/2" mark yet.

That is with some work doen on the Rock barrel.
If Flinch will take it like that, please email HD Rifles so I can get word to the managment so we can get it out.

I would like to apologize to anyone that was affected by what has happened when Clay, the accountant and myself screwed the business end of HDR up. Though many would like to lay all the blame on me, it just isnt that simple. I loose sleep every night over this stuff, along side of gaining some health problems due to stress like high blood pressure.
Hey, a portion of it was my fault! You will never get any arguments here about that. My problem was growing too fast, trying to do it all, being horrible at business managment and just not being able to to it all. That coupled with having some very bad employees virtually killed us.
I guess just because you can build a rifle as well as anyone on the planet, doesnt mean you can have a succsessfull business at it.

HDR is plugging along and hopefully the new managment will get things worked out. We are catching up with me in the shop and out of the office however.
The road will be long and hard and hopefully we can make it down that road.

Once again. I am very sorry for any affected by what has happened.

Happy new year

Celt

Good to see you around Celt.

I genuinely wish you well and hope that y'all get things worked out to everyones satisfaction.

Mike

celt, wer I in your shoes I would send Flinchs rifle back regardless of the grouping. I am glad to see that you are at least stepping up to the plate and taking your licks............blake

Sheesh,
I believe these guy's would simply like their guns back no matter what! Bet if you made that happen you could truly make another run at this business!

Huntr

Flinch,

Wow! I had forgot about your bad dealings with Celt. I can't believe you still have never got your Sako back from him.

I would take Mickey's advice and seek legal action against this horrible repugnant little man....

We, as a few hundred of us here, look forward to seeing how long it takes for Flinch to get his rifle back.

Celt,

You have a bad memory......................

MtnHtr

Like I said, It is not my company anymore period. I dont know where you get off spouting crap like that.
You dont know me.
I made some mistakes, but to say what you have is just ridiculous.

It is not in my hands at all anymore. I do not own the company anymore period! I have no say in the matters.

Further more, I never owed 100% of the company. At one time I had 33% you may want to think that I made all the decisions, but I did not. In fact I made very few, and fewer alone if any.

Yeah Im here to take my licks. I guess I have it comming by mistakes we made when it was WAS my good name at risk. I knew I would take all the crap for any misfortunes and I am.
So I guess let me have it and I'll take it.

Celt


Celt

Drop me an email and tell me what happened and how I you think I ridiculed you.
I do not believe I did in any way at all. It is not my way to do that.
If you feel I did. I apologize, by once again it is not my way to do things like that.
Celt

Celt
I do not have a dog in this fight, but it does seem to me the rifle was accepted while you were an owner and passed into questionable status while you were an owner. It seems you would have some culpability in the issue legally.

It seems you should be doing all you could to reduce your personal liability.
art

Celt,

I don't have a dog in this fight....

Even if you are just a grunt now, I'd bet you could find a way to facilitate the return of the rifle to Flinch......

It would be the right thing to do, I'd think. Good place to start on the road to recovery.

Good luck.

I will do what I can, but I need Flinch to email me about it first

Celt,

Apology accepted. I took pics and had film developed of the barrel oven I built and then scanned and Emailed em to ya. A few mos later you posted how you were accepting orders for coating firearms. I asked on the forum how the barrel oven worked out and you replied in a manner that implied my design sucked and how you welded on another barrel for more length. I had initially recommended you do that in the first place so one could bake the entire barreled action. In a sense, you basically made my ideas and design look crappy after I went thru alot of effort to Eamil those pics (this was before I had a digital camera). But this is all water under the bridge now.

As for Flinch's rifle, put yourself in his shoes. He commisioned you to build him a rifle that was to be built to certain specifications and requirements. You failed, its that simple (or LW failed as a barrelmaker). You offered to correct the issues at hand and he gave you the chance. More than enough reasonable time has passed by and you have failed to correct the issues in question regarding the rifle. Or if you have, you or your company has failed to deliver the goods.

I don't have a dog in this dispute nor is it my place to stick my nose in this issue. But I have and I apologize for that. Long ago I went thru what Flinch is going thru with another 'smith so I can relate to all this. Flinch is a great guy and I don't wish anyone to have to go thru this bull$hit. As the title of this thread states "Frustrated". Tell your no good company to make things right.....................

MtnHtr

Add me to the list of observers who don't have a dog in this fight. Anyone can have business problems, and unfortunately they seem to happen with a lot of folks in the gunsmithing business. The thing I can't understand is why so many gunsmiths can't seem to be upfront and initiate honest communication with their customers when they encounter problems. Most folks are reasonable, and will cut the other fellow some slack if they understand his situation. But when a business plays hide-and-seek with customers, like dodging phone calls and e-mails, let alone outright lying, it just pi$$es people off. Then they start talking to other shooters, posting on sites like this, etc., and the smith's reputation goes in the toilet. Customer relations is nothing more than the Golden Rule. My suggestion is that gunsmiths treat their customers just like they expect to be treated, by their doctor, plumber, auto shop, etc. etc. It just strikes me as sad when these situations develop and turn sour, because it seems so avoidable.

Paul

Yes Flinch is a great guy. He has been more than patient and never foul on the phone or emails. He is a great guy and I am sorry for the problems we have had...along with anyone else.

HD's Terms and Conditions.

http://www.hdrifles.net/terms%20and%20conditions.htm

" Where a specific delivery date has been agreed to, and if this delivery date cannot be met, the Buyer will be given the option to agree to a new delivery date or receive a full refund."


Are these men of honor who keep their word?


This one is not going away.

I've worked in the gun industry from manufacturing to retail and there is just no excuse for this.


I suggest that if there is nothing done here within two weeks in regards to Flinches rifle, this post goes NET starting with Snipers Hide.

That seems to be the question.

Fix it! How tough can it be? All I've heard are a bunch of lame excuses. If you can't get it right (becomming aparent) get it to someone who can. If I operated like that I'd be looking for work in short order. Welcome to the real world. Buck up!

Chuck

fwiw & imho,
I dunno as I would agree with that statement. Though you can do good work...

Matt.

Celt, it is good to hear from you or read from you <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />. I have e-mailed you, and your company several times and called many more times to no avail. I have not received one returned e-mail at all. I have not gotten a call back from HD rifles in months, even though I have left MANY very professional and nice messages. I just figured I lost a rifle and was trying to suck it up and move on.

I give a lot of credit to a man that can step up to the plate and admit he screwed up in any way. It hurts like hell, but I admire a guy that can do it, especially on a public forum. That is a great start for you to get back on your feet. You are a very talented rifle smith.

In the mean time, I have a lot of questions as to the rifle. When I first sent it back to you, due to it not shooting under 1.5" at 100 yards, you personally told me you replaced the Mike Rock barrel with a new Lothar Walther, because the Rock barrel was made of bad steel and was eroding badly after only 200 slow fire rounds. That conversation took place last April. Then you told me the new Lothar barrel was only shooting 5/8ths on a good day after rebedding it many different times. Now you tell me you are still trying to tweak the Rock barrel even though Mike refunded your/my money for the bad barrel. This is the crap that drives me nuts!! Just tell me the truth, I can handle it. One week it is being assemble, the next you are shooting it, the next it is being assembled, then being shipped, then back to bedding, then back to installing the barrel. Clay even told me twice that it shipped!!!

Clay told me 4 months ago that the rifle was complete with a new Lothar barrel and was shooting half in groups and was in the mail. I told him I was leaving on a trophy elk hunt and I needed the rifle within a month. He said no problem. I called NUMBEROUS times after that and never got a call back and no rifle showed up. I had to borrow a rifle to go hunting with and it cost me one damn fine bull, due to 3 failures to feed!!!! The old saying, "never borrow a rifle" still rings in my head loudly, but I had no choice in the matter. I even shot over 100 rounds through the rifle before leaving. Anywho, I just want the rifle back at this point, but I also want a new barrel. The one 5/8" group is not going to cut it. I put 200 rounds through that barrel trying numerous powders and accurate bullets. The best it would ever do was 1.5" at 100 yards. I need a rifle that shoots good all the time, not just once in a great while. If I need to get with Mike Rock regarding this, please let me know. Would a refund of $400 be in line, since I still have to get it built to my specs? That is what I paid you to put it together for me + painting the stock and coating it. Let me know who I need to contact to wrap this up. I pmed you my e-mail and phone number as well. Thanks for publically coming forward with this. Flinch

Well, The ball seems to be in your court.

Are you gonna send Flinch his rifle back or are you gonna forget about it for 2 more years???

The shooting world is waiting.....

Redneck, it was probably Rich Riley at High Tech Customs. Does that ring a bell? If so, I am a big fan of his work.

Ted

Finch, from Celts last post it looks like he's bailing out and nobody else is going to talk to you about your rifle.
You have just been screwed and the guy you trusted talks like he is the one who was treated bad.
If it was me I'd damn well be ready to put a hurting on somebody, no matter what method used or who you have to get involved.
It seems obvious your rifle is either lost or damaged too bad to be repaired and somebody is hoping you will just write it off.
I had a pistol involved in a deal like that, but nowhere near as long. It got back to me real fast when I sent the smith a letter that I was going to notify local law enforcement and the BATF.

Flinch,

You're a great guy and one I admire but if I can give you one piece of advice friend-to-friend.....................STOP BEING NICE!!!!! It's time to bust some balls. I know you want your rifle back and hoping like hell Celt and HD will work with you but bud, give it up, not gonna happen. It's time to call ATF and get some big guns involved. You've been screwed, it's time to do a little screwing back. Small claims, ATF and USPS would be my next step if I were you. Good luck bud and quit being a pussy! :-)

Flinch, Im a nobody here but Im a scant 30 miles from HD's door, if you can hit me up with a PM with a contact number Id like to see you get whats yours.

Bruce

Please post a pic of some guy knocked out cold and a HD Rifles, Inc sign busted over his head.

Flinch, I feel for you....just went through a similar situation myself, with John Ricks. He had my gun for over 2 years.

I finally had to buy a plane ticket and show up on his doorstep to get my stuff...

No, no, no.........not so fast. We want more details then that little teaser blurb. That's got to be a good story. :-)

He had my stuff forever, stopped answering his phone and emails...a bunch of other people PM'd me having the same problems. I tried being nice and blowing it off for a while, then some other dude told me he had to get a lawyer involved to get his stuff, so I got a little pissed. Pretty much same situation Flinch is in.

I headed for Seattle, rented a car, and showed up at his house...outside a locked fence. Called from outside the fence, could see him inside, but he wouldn't answer. I sat there with high beams aimed into his living room til he came out to see who it was.

I guess you could say he was surprised to see me. He was nice about it...which was a good thing, as I was pretty pissed. He apologized a bunch and told me he'd send me some $ for my plane ticket...but I just wanted to get my [bleep] and go...

I don't believe I'd ever have gotten my stuff without going right to the source...

The story loses some zing,via text.

It was far better on the phone.

Call Spike and do the account justice......................(grin)

So how did the rifle turn out? Didja have to hire another 'smith to finish the job?

MtnHtr

Oh....this will be good.....................(grin)

Mtn Hunter
I think the results could be described as "boxy"... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

The suspense......is......killing........me......

Mtn Hunter, it's hard to believe a single man could accomplish so much, in so little time.

Two years later, here's what she looks like...

WTF!!!!! She's still salvageable but I bet your a bit shy after that fiasco!! I would have done the same thing jumping on the plane! I was alot luckier, it took a little elbow grease on mine...........................

MtnHtr

Sad part is, someone here tried to warn me off, early on.....over coffee at DS12...<grin>

Yeah, but the issues were a bit different... Would have liked to have seen his face...

Retrieved a deer head from the "wrong" taxidermist once and remember that special look that people can get when they know their stuff got pretty thin...

I love the way its now gaurded by the AR.



Roads

In the end, it's no problem...Matt's got the ultimate set of tools...his dad is a tv repairman....we'll get 'er tuned up...



Had a helluva time getting the barrel to fit the stock...in retrospect, probably would have been easier to grind on the McSwirly....

Next, we'll bed the action with Bondo....

LMFAO!

That is PRICELESS <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I saved the hot melt glue scraped from a bunch of A-bolts... better than bondo! Want it?

I'm stripping some jumper cables to make an improvised welder and getting a coat hanger ready to tack the barrel to the action for a test shot....

Wear a rubber...if ONLY for the safety of your partner.................

Flinch, for a nominal fee, we'll retrieve your goods for you....



For a paltry additional sum, we'll be happy to assemble it...

Who's the bitch in the mask? Those child bearing hips,horn me up.

I simply love feminine digits..................(grin!)

PM me for price and paypal instructions...no checks!!!

Apparently winters on the slope are tough duty. Why aren't you guys out at Chilkoots or something. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I'm also auctioning off a country asswhippin on ebay if you'd like to place a bid...

I'll bid happily,but a I've sole curiousity that remains?

WHO is gonna issue it?...................

I'll front you half the cash if it's a money issue???

Dude.......

I've seen you shoot and I ain't ascared of that "Quick Draw".

Have seen me stand toe to toe and cain't in good faith recommend that long term investment prospect..................

There is a lot to be said for shot placement as you've tought me in previous lessons.... but you know I'll stay on the throttle till my feminine hands blister or you get a LUCKY one in there <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Matt,

You is THE King of empty brass.

How you can reliably schuck shells,wth them Lady Fingers,remains a Mystery to me?!!?

You is a Freak of nature.............(grin)

I'll foot the bill if we can do 100 yards and you've got a 338-378 in you mitts...Mr. Magoo!!!!

Back when I was poor we only had TV, wasn't nuttin as funny on it as there is on this puter many a day! You guys crack me up!

Flinch, hoping good things happen for ya. Sounds like Spike is offering you some sage advice.

David, I've heard of takedown rifles before, but that's impressive!

Oh man....I about pissed myself.


It goes wihout sayin',that I gotta operate within the confines of my "safehouse",so as to brandish the "Heroic" results that pay my Pooty-Meter.

But SOLELY for fun,we oughtta do the Quick Draw Thing,if only for giggles.

I'll toss you a half hour headstart!.................(grin)

BTW Spike can we please have your version of Dave's takedown a gunsmith so he could retrieve his takedown rifle?

Inquiring minds would like to know...............and so would the rest of us retards!

Lordy, after reading this entire thread I think I will continue to let Pac-Nor rebarrel my actions and glue 'em together my own self.

The thought of masked women showing up in the middle of the night and biotch slapping "someone" at HD does my heart good. You just gotta love the deer in the headlights look. Maybe you big strong Alaskan type could just whip um with a dead salmon, or a fly rod. That will show them who's boss.

I do like the looks of the new "take down rifle". How does she shoot? That new style of rifle has simply gotta wood up Big Stick something fearce. I can see him drooling all over his mouse thinking of which rifle to scab out and get er done.

You all give sage advice. I have one more card up my sleeve, then I will roll up the sleeves and take the trash out. If that doesn't work, I will be on a plane. Thanks for your support and humor <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Flinch

Pussy............................grin.

Well damn Spike, I thought there'd be more to Dave's story than "pussy"! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

That was for Flinch................I was poking him in the ribs.

Yeah I knew that, I was just poking you back with a friendly reminder.

As long as it couldn't be used as evidence to get Dave 5-15 years would love to be entertained by the yarn though!

Actually, I'd venture a guess THAT is all there is to Dave's story. :-)

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It may not be all, but I bet it's always one of his favorite parts! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

In fairness, I must say Ricks remained nice and even apologetic, right to the end....he had some personal problems that took him away from his work, and I really think he regretted it. He expressed remorse that he let a lot of people down.

Would have been simple, though, to explain things to everyone and send their [bleep] back....

I'm trying to hold the tear back....you getting soft on me??? Maybe that Vodka aint all it's cracked up to be...better get some Whiskey in you before the next post.

I talked to Flinch and think I have arrived an acceptable solution.

Bruce