I have a Sako L461 with a still quite accurate but well used (lots of throat) 26 inch barrel in .222Rem. I wanted to freshen up the throat area and pick up a little speed so I just dropped the rifle off today at a custom gunsmiths shop to have a .204Ruger reamer run into the chamber. A 22 cal pilot will, of course, be used to keep everything true. The result will be a 22/204. This will have just a tiny bit more case capacity than a 222RemMag or a 223 AI but will have the advantage of readily available and cheap brass with no need to fireform. Ballistics should be very similar to both of the above, I will report back when I get the rifle back but this sounds like and should be a quick and cheap way to a hair get more zip out of rifles chambered for 222, 223 or 222RemMag and to freshen up the throat (by moving everything forward, into better condition rifling) of any well used rifles in these chamberings. Have any of you out in 24Hr custom land ever heard of anyone else doing this? Do I have an original idea here?

What do you plan to use for reloading dies ?

Woofer been looking at doing something on this order.

safariman;

It'd be basically a twin, thought not interchangeable as far as dies go, of the .222Rem.Mag.AI.

Check the reloading section under Varmint rifles; there was discussion not too long ago about this idea, I think.

I should be able to just run .204 Ruger brass through a .22 cal neck sizing die and fire away. VA, you are right that it will basically duplicate the 22REMMAG AI, but a lot easier to load for. Thanks for your idea to look at the other forum. I rarely spend any time there but will investigate later this evening.

The Br guys played with the 222mag case alot. Had shoulders anywhere from 35/45 degress plus moved body forward they were called 222-35 or 222-45 plus afew other things. They spend alot of time with that case trying to get it to shoot good. I think the 204 ruger is a take off of the work the BR guys did. Neil Jones made alot of shoulder bumping dies for those calibers.
Precision Shooting came out with what was the best years in their magazines and made them in Volumes and in Volume II March 1986-March 1987 they gave a pretty good bit of information about trying to get the 222mag case to shoot and the different changes made to the case. My first Br rifle was a 6x47-40 made off a metric case.

Well, I posted a question on this about a month ago, recommending the 222MagAI. It got some responses. Somebody had already made one awhile ago, but I forgot who.

And the 'search engine,' well, let's just say it can't find anything that I've posted. Hmm...maybe I don't know how to use it.

Safariman:

Dang good idea there, making lemonade out of a lemon!

BMT

Been visited before....A worthy look for sure! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads...true#Post446888

SU35.... Thanks aTON! That was a terrific thread feed. Great thoughts and idea's back and forth. I did not become a member of the campfire until after this conversation was long over. I did not read where anyone actually did the chambering, and mine is at the 'smiths shop as we speak so I should have a report sometime this summer.

Safariman,

The cartridge you propose, the .22/204, was the first thought in my head when I heard of the .204.

Sounds like a winner to me. Available, excellent cases. Easy to form with a Redding tapered expanding plug. What's not to like?

Performance would be quite similar to the .223 Ackley, maybe slightly hotter. And it would not surprise me if major firearms industry mover and shaker doesn't have the cartridge in the hopper right now. No, I haven't heard a rumor, but these guys should know a good thing, especially shen it is SO natural.

Steve

Okay, now I know that folks wildcat stuff just to do it.

But lemme think now, the .204 Ruger is the .222 Rem. Mag necked down to .204, wasn't it?

And now you want to neck it up to .224 diameter to make a wildcat?

Why do I have this image of someone necking up a .270 to .30 caliber and calling it great?



Just kidding y'all some about this, but man, I think I'm getting a better handle on the definitive definition of "rifle looney". <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Jim;

Actually, the .204 is the .222 Rem. Mag. Improved and then necked down. Essentially, the .22/.204 is a .222Rem.Mag.AI.

Your .270 to .30 caliber comparison would actually be the .270AI necked up to .30 caliber. And, yeah, it'd be pretty good. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I am pretty sure the shoulder on the .204 is a little further forward than the 222RemMag as well. I do not have a diagram handy, but this is what I read. What we SHOULD have is the most case capacity one can achieve in this case class with a short neck. Short necks now considered to be best bet from a pure accuracy standpoint. I just read last night that Nosler is making .204Ruger Brass. If they are drilling the primer pockets and flash holes like Norma I will have to get my hands on some. BMT, thanks for the compliment. Jim, I'll take the Rifle looney comment as high praise as well! Dogzapper, once again it is proved that great minds think alike. Roper and SU35, thanks for the tech thoughts and help. VA, your comments as always are timely and well thought out. I am glad you like my idea! VA and Jim..... the 270AI necked up to 30 would be a near twin to the 30Gibbs, I think. Yes I have heard that it is a heck of a cartridge. The thread that SU35 directed me too had someone commenting that it ought to be possible to hit 4,000 with moly 40's. Now wouldn't THAT be a hoot! Especially with a cartridge that has very low recoil and uses powder in small doses?!?!?!

Given the slight increase in case capacity over the original .222RM, do you think its possible to reach the velocities of of something like the .225 Winchester or .224 Weatherby? If so, that would make one sweet little wildcat <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

HBB

Naw, it wouldn't be that hot, but it would be a little faster than the .223 Ackley.

To the previous poster, my point is that at least a fella wouldn't have to fireform the cases. Yes, the .204 is basically a .222 RemMag Improved. A simple necking-up procedure would result in a fully-formed case.

Personally, I fireform .223 Remingtons to .223 Ackley when I shoot prairie dogs under fairly windfree conditions. Other folks might want "instant gratification" and the .22/204 would give them that.

Steve

A "hot" .223AI with no fireforming would be pretty sweet too <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

HBB

I found my link from a couple weeks ago. Hotrodusa is the one who had done a 222MagAI already before.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads...true#Post715130

On my triple duece imp, the top of the case body is .368 with formed brass compaired to .352 on a new case, its blown out about as far as you wanna go..........


With my new 3-groove barrel coming, I'll fill the case right up to max and not fret, It'll give a 22-250 factory barrel a run for its money !


If I were to do it all over again, I'd go with a 45* shoulder.


With one of the computer programs such as RCBS-load, you can design a case based off a standard sammi case, and actually see what the case volume is gonna be, I'd recommend doing that with your necked up 204 case, to see what you can create. My RCBS load has the 204 cae dimensions, it has a 30 degree shoulder and is .3599 at the top of the case body.

Seems I forgot how to kickstart my rcbs load program, maybe later I'll see what I can create.

Ok,I took the 204 ruger case and gave it a neck streach to .224 cal, gave a 45* shoulder, and blow the top of case body to .368 and I called the new case the .224 soap, thought you'd get a good laugh form that one. I took a pic of the results.

Man, I got a LOT more information than I could possibly have hoped for. What a great site this is! ! I still have not seen anyone post any velocity numbers. I guess it will be a race between Hotrod USA and me to get speed numbers up here. I am really looking forward to seeing what we come up with.

I think the 22/204 and the 223AI are really only worth it when converting an existing gun that needs a tune up. Otherwise, there are other factory 22's that walk all over both of them. So, in your case, I saw go for it. But for a virgin barrel, i would just get a Swift or 22/250. Actually, I bought a 204, and don't really see the point of it either. My 223AI will do anything it can dream of and more.

I have a 204 Cooper and a 223 Improved Cooper. They are both accurate. To me the 223 Imp. is the way to go.

me thinks this a good platform for an AR as you could simply neck up (no 45 shoulder if you choose) and the reamer would clean up an existing 223 chamber.... more poop for the trouble...

woofer

NOW youve gone and done it.... NOW Im gonna hafta go out and buy an AR thingamajiggy and try out my new wildcat in THAT! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Good idea, I think.