I looked at all the custom actions I could find and decided to get a Defiance Rebel medium action. I wanted a CM action and Defiance and Borden were the only ones who would do it. Borden wanted quite a premium to do CM over stainless. Defiance did exactly what I wanted; pinned .250" recoil lug, 1.403 tenon, hybrid port, small firing pin, pinned 20 MOA rail etc, etc.

5 month wait, however.

I'd like to see pics on the CM Defiance when you get it. While I like stainless on barrels, I like CM for my actions.

What's wrong with a Pierce CM receiver?

Defiance has excellent customer service just received a Rebel and it ended up with a Rem 700 drop in handle and I needed the standard Rebel handle, a phone call to Norm and there was no hesitation he said he would send a shipping label for me to send the action back and he would make a new bolt it will end up being about a 1 week turn around, great service in my opinion!

Nothing, Butch. The Defiance gave me the other options that I wanted is all.

Beautiful rifle!

Awesome!

I like the Defiance as well with the "modified handle" option for the 700 drop in fit. The modified handle has some meat taken off the back of the handle to make it slimmer. To many of these 700 clones have handles so thick and beefy like a Hurst Shifter not to mention the un-needed extra weight and thickness.

Dennis,
John has always been able to give me what I wanted.
I'm sure your Defiance will be great.

Who made those custom Talley bases on the Pierce action ? Gila River ?

I made the bases.
Below is the front banded sight that I made for it.


It is in 6.5X47 Lapua

Good deal Dave, that's the way it should be.

Curious why you'd prefer an add on recoil lug over an integral?

The Deviant was not available in chrome moly. I wanted a CM action. 4140 and 4340 CM is stronger and safer than 416 SS used in actions. I also wanted to nitride the action which precluded using 416 SS at that hardness.

The Deviant also has a opening on the opposite side of the port that serves no purpose. My loading port will be completely contained from the rail down. I guess those were my reasons.

Curious -

Do 416 actions have an issue with safety?

What are you building and for what purpose?

Not at all and I understand what Dennis is doing.

Yeah, it's great to see the traditional CM in rifle builds. Stainless is so popular now the CM's usually cost more. We all remember when it was the other way around.

What SS did Rem use on their Model 7 XCR? Nitride coated right? Any benefit vs. plain SS ?? Lubricity of bolt?

No, they just can't be nitrided at the hardness that is required of an action. A 416 barrel can be as it is much softer- being more tempered.

I really don't think it is the best material for actions- I would prefer at PH stainless but I guess it is hard to work with and no longer used.

No idea, if it was coated, it wasn't nitrided. Ferritic carbo-nitriding is a surface hardening treatment- not a coating; kinda like a high-tech case hardening. Glock slides are finished this way.

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-xcr.aspx

http://www.remington.com/pages/trinyte.aspx

David

There you have it, a coating.

How do you feel about titanium actions?

I'll jump into Dennis's thread. I'm building a lightweight rifle and it has a Pierce Ti receiver. Only advantage is weight. 1 Pound lighter than a 700, but without special coatings the bolt movement is sticky.
Ti is not a good alternative unless weight is paramount and money doesn't matter.

Dennis,
Bat uses 17-4.

What are differences/advantages between 17-4, 15-5 and 416 for action making Butch ? I see Nesika uses 15-5 and H-S uses 17-4, while most others use 416. Not sure what Borden uses.

I think, if you search the physical character of the 17-4PH, you will find it superior to 416. I'm not familiar with 15-5. 17-4 is more expensive and a little more difficult to machine.
For the most part, all of the mentioned metal will make a safe receiver.
I prefer a CM for 90% of my builds.

Thanks Butch. Do any of the custom 700 clone action makers make the receiver and bolt out of SS or are they all using CM bolts now.

As far as I know, all are CM. SS against SS produces a tendency to gall.

Borden originally started with 15-5 and I guess Jim had issues with it and now uses 416!

What does Glen from Defiance Machine use on his actions ?

416 SS is his standard as most everyone seems to want stainless steel everything. My first action from his was CM and I love it. Several who have made 17-4 stainless actions have switched to 416. Jim Borden was on here a few months ago and said that he would be glad to enlighten me on 416 as an action steel if I called him. I really didn't want 416 so I didn't call. I also was interested in trying a new action but he wanted too much of a premium for CM. He says it costs him more and I can't argue that.

It is no great secret that 416 SS isn't as strong under cold conditions. In fact, John Krieger would not sell light contour SS barrels for a while (maybe still has that policy). This has always weighed in the back of my mind. Rifle looneys are always testing, pushing the limits and loading their own ammo. It just seems prudent to use the best material for the job.

Maybe if I lived in coastal Alaska or the gulf coast I would prefer stainless

Oh, I ordered another Rebel action today, duplicate of the first...

Tell me more about the Rebel you ordered. I'm leaning toward a Rebel with the new 3 position safety they just came out with for them. I assume these Rebel actions take any Remington hardware such as BDL bottom metal, mag boxes, triggers. I want to get McMillans LA aluminum Oberndorf style BM to keep the weight down and probably throw a Timney trigger or maybe a SS Shilen trigger although I've heard mixed reports about how crisp they are compared to the Timney's.

You tell Norm what you intend to do for a magazine and he will inlet the action accordingly. I wanted ADL style. He can do Wyats, AICS et al. Since I am using a 6.5x47L I hardly need any additional length.

Thanks Dennis. What was the wait time approx. ?

Iv'e talked with Jim about Kriegers smaller contour policy in SS and jim pretty much said there is no basis for it, Hart, RC PN and many others make smaller contours in SS with no issues that Iv'e ever heard of , how cold would it have to be to cause a barrel to burst?

RD,

I ordered a CM Rebel earlier this year. Did a Defiance Group Buy here back in the Spring and the 3-pos safety was one feature I really wanted to include. Still waiting as I also went with their CRF option. They are still sorting these two things out, so trying to remain patient. All Remington 700 components should fit, no problem. As noted in an earlier post, the bolt handle configuration could be an issue for the stock fit. One quirky things with the Rebel model in CM - Defiance does not offer a CM recoil lug so you will receive a stainless steel part. There are after-market recoil lugs in CM but these do not match Defiance's pin placement.

I didn't order a CRF, I wanted regular push-feed. Norm told me 5 months out.

Both Manners and McMillan have inlet programs for the Defiance rebel.

can anyone post pics of your finished rigs using defiance?

Just do a google search of " 24Hourcampfire.com Defiance Rebel " for images and you'll come up with a ton of builds.

Don't all the Rem. clones look the same? Some look better because the customer and smith do a good job with them.

No, Butch, some have cooler bolt fluting and bolder action names emblazoned into them!

One thing I wish all of them would do is get away from these 2 inch thick bolt handles. I don't understand the need for having bolt handles that look like they could double as a Hurst shifter from a 69 Hemi Cuda. Defiance now has a "modified bolt handle" that is a little thinner, but even theirs could loose another 25% of it's bulk.

RD, it's all personal favorites, I prefer the standard Defiance handle over their swept back over carved Rem drop in, I also like the Borden handles but the big shifter knobs I can do without!

I agree. I think those huge bolt knobs look silly on a sporter hunting rifle. Must be a tacticool thing. The one you have on yours and the standard round ball from Defiance look the best to me.

I'm glad that neither on my Pierce receivers look like that. My 2 original Stiller's weren't bad either.

Butch, your rifles look fantastic. You don't have to worry about wonky bolt handles.

Thanks Dennis,
It is easy to take care of though. Ship it to Dan Armstrong and he can fix you up with any handle.

It would be a little more difficult with a Defiance as the bolt handle and bolt are one piece.

It is no problem for him at all. Maybe you haven't used Dan before and do not know of his expertise.
I have photos of all kinds of his bolt knobs. Pm an email address and I can send you photos.

sent.....thanks Butch

The bolt handle I am getting is fine for this rifle. It wouldn't be fine for a rifle like you posted on the Pierce action.

Again, very nice rifle! What bolt knob did you order on this one?

Looks like their tear drop

Rd is correct..........teardrop

Put in an order for a L/A Rebel last night for a .30-06 build.

Sheep Port, Defiance bolt handle, teardrop knob, regular bolt flutes, standard tenon, .250 lug, Rem tang, Rem port length and Rem rear bridge.

As a frequent flyer, they even threw me a 10% discount. $1056 including shipping. Hard to beat that kind of value.

Putting in the order with McMillan today... We will see who can deliver first.

I can't do the Rem rear bridge. No point in grinding it off so that bases are tough to get to fit. I much prefer the full round rear bridge- greatly simplifies scoping.

Generally if I plan to use a rail than I agree with you. My other two are both round bridge. This one is slated for Talley LWs and I figured ordering standard Rem parts would just make it that much easier.

Last time around I could not get Defiance, the builder or Talley to give me a straight answer as to which ones were needed with the hole spacing and pin holes. I gave up and used the rail I had.

Now you have me second guessing that decision...

I checked the Talley site and it looks like it has got better in the last couple years. Round bridge with .860 spacing looks good. I think that is the configuration GAP is using these days too.

I'm like you Dennis on the rear bridge.

I have tried several custom actions out there and my favorites are the Surgeon 591 (short) and Surgeon 1086 (long) actions.

Everyone has their own likes/dislikes...find the one that satisfies you and roll with it!!

Just got off the phone with Norm; confirmed some part numbers of rings and changed my order to the round bridge with .860 spacing.

Thanks for the inputs.

I think you will be glad you did. Even the Savage accutrigger has the round rear bridge. There is no way to grind that rear bridge off exactly the way it will fit the bases; at least Remington can't seem to do it. I see no down side to the full round and there are plenty of options for Accutrigger actions.

I agree the full round rear bridge is the one I prefer and I think it just looks better, and I always just used Talley's part # for the Nesika 8-40 's and .860 hole spacing !

They wouldn't do CM steel. They are local too, I would have possibly used them.

I'm with Ackleyfan - George and Pat told me to use the Talley LW for a Nesika action for the Gap Templar.

I thought CM was all Surgeon used as they only made the RSR and LSR for a short while.....

I wanted to go with the Talley Signature bases which Talley makes for the Defiance Rebel. It's the same base as used on the Nesika (round rear bridge). If you order it that way, the rear scope base just slightly hangs over the loading port.



For me, I wanted to use the same Talley Signature's as the Remington 700 takes so that the base fits with no overlap. To do that, you need to order the Defiance with the Remington rear bridge and the .605 hole spacing. The only thing you do from there is to get the scope bases opened up for the 8-40 screws because that's the only size Defiance uses for scope base holes.

That way the Signature bases won't hang over the load port. Not sure if you can see it from this angle or not, but you get the idea. I wanted to get the scope bases and rings coated to match up with the Black-T finish on rifle just for the looks mostly.



Before the Black-T coating here...



It looks like Defiance knows how to grind the Rem rear bridge to accommodate the Rem Signature Talley's. An Elkhorn Precision rifle with some funky looking CeraKoting.

I am told there is a third option... at least there is when ordering a Defiance.

One can order a round bridge, .860 hole spaced and specify Remington port length instead of the extended port version. This should ensure no overhang, per Norm at Defiance.

While on the topic, I have been greasing the wheels for them to mill integral Talley bases on their Deviant Ultralight action instead of the 1913 rail.

So far they have not committed but are taking it under consideration.

If they do mill them it should allow the scope to be mounted lower (hopefully lots) than they can be now with 2 piece Talleys.

That would be sweet if they milled integral Talley bases and I'd bet they would sell a bunch that way as I see an awful lot of Talley rings on top of custom actions anyway. The new Deviant UL has individual 1913s but only with 20 moa tilt at this time. I think Defiance has some of their own Talley style bases that they've made or at least that was the impression I got from Mike yesterday. They have to get a lot of these little details up on their website so that folks know what's available. They still don't have the 3 pos safety option listed and I'd bet they would sell a lot that way if people knew about it.

I personally hate the Talley rings and any other vertically split rings. I have seen too many scope tube damaged by rings that use the same clamping force to hold them to the bases as to the scope. I never understood this way of doing things. It is not as attractive and has the aforementioned short-comings.

My two hunting Rebels have the Dave Gentry 3 Position safe.
It took awhile.
Very first two to be done by him.At least thats what I was told.
There very nice.
dave

Defiance installs them now in SS or CM. They just don't have the option listed on their site. If you order that option, they want you to send them your trigger to be fitted, free of charge.

I had to send my actions and triggers to Gentry to be fitted.They have to be timed.I ran with Rifle Basic.I still dont have mine done yet.
To much 1000 yard stuff.Ive changed my mind several times now as to what I wanted.Started out with a 25-06 and a 300 Win mag.I actually have the barrels and dies.
Thought about changing the 25-06 to a 270 win and the 300 WM to a 260 Nosler.
Ill change my mind a few more times before it over.

dave