Okay, so I'm hoping this rifle is not totally snake-bit, but I don't know...

It's built by a very reputable tactical/precision rifle shop and the barrel is a new stainless Rock Creek I ordered from Bugholes. When I got the barreled action back a few months ago, I noticed that there were several surfaces of the action that were still bare steel. It went back on their dime and they fixed it. So I finally get around to bedding it, installing a trigger, mounting the scope, to sight it in this weekend. I take a look at the bore and see solid copper everywhere. Worse copper than I've ever seen on a factory test-fired rifle. So I start patching it out, blue goop pouring out continuously and the patch feel is not very smooth. I shine a light in there and there's still loads of copper but I also notice the bore is jet black. Odd for a SS tube......





Wondering if that same Cerakote operator that screwed up the first time forgot to plug the bore? The chamber is bright silver SS, but the bore is super dark black. Would also explain all the copper in a brand new, high-end, cut-rifled barrel?

And here are a dirty Lilja SS and Pac-Nor SS for reference. Light gray bores present.

Should also add that I have no borescope, but can see gleaming copper in the first inch or two of the bore with a flashlight.

Going to send the photos to the shop tomorrow and see what they say.
When I say "snake-bit", I'm not kidding. The donor 700 came about because the lug was so canted that it was going to have to go back to Remington, the new Timney 510 wouldn't adjust and had to go back, the laminated handle I bought for it got seriously cracked in the mail, and this may be the barreled action's third trip to the smith. Don't anybody say "Should have bought a Tikka...."

I have to go look in the bore of my rifle now.

I won't . . . . but the next guy might

From your description, I bet money on Cerakote in the bore. At the least, I'd find a new guy to do my Cerakoting.

Send some rounds down the tube and clean it out. Whats the big deal?

Would that even work?

So much for that if it is indeed ceracote in the bore. No excuse for that or the first time they screwed up the finish for that matter.
I don't care what shop it was but I'd like to know the resolution if you don't mind posting that up when the goat roping is complete.

He shouldn't have to.

Yes, just run a couple rounds down and it will be gone.

Pat, thanks for the good info. I'm going to see what the shop says, but some Google searching shows other folks shooting out Cerkote bore oversprays without incident or harm. If that's what happened, it was indeed a sloppy job and should not have happened. I'll update the thread regarding what I find out.

Only giving an opinion based on my personal experience.

That's copper & fouling after it was shot or cerekote in the barrel. Try cleaning it and then take a look. If it's cerekote....well that's a big screw up and non acceptable.

Let us know what you find out Jpro.

might try the Tubbs final finish system to clean out the bore.

+1

It's no big deal.

I sent the photos to the smith to see what they had to say before I start shooting it. As I mentioned before, I did find some threads on other forums where a bit of Cerakote found its way past the crown and 10-15 rounds took care of it. I also found a thread where Gordy Gritters mentions getting two rifles in his shop that had some pretty serious amounts of Cerakote in the bore and he had to lead lap them both to get it out. The owner of one had attempted to "shoot it out" to no avail and both rifles had poor accuracy considering the quality of the barrels.

Interesting scenario anyway and decent topic for discussion.

I suppose I could also try about 50 passes with JB bore paste and see what that does, if anything. The photos I took were after about 5 copper-solvent patches, 40 strokes with a nylon brush and solvent, and another 5 or so copper-solvent patches, letting the bore soak a few minutes between each patch. That usually gets a rifle bore reasonably clean unless it's just been neglected. So I doubt it is powder fouling making the bore look black like that.

Curious to hear the smiths response.

I wonder if the grooves in the Barnes TSX bullets would do a better job of scraping the cerakote out than a regular jacketed bullet?

Rocket science, eh? Certainly easier than shipping it back with, as I often read here, the risk of loss and/or damage due to the various shipping companies...

Absoutely not! Not in a premium barrel.

GEORGIABOY-

what have you got against tubs final finish system?

I've got nothing against them. BUT, (In my experience/opinion) I would never use that system on a new, premium barrel without giving it a chance to prove itself first, and even then I would give it a careful exam before resorting to 'slugging' or other procedure to clean/smooth the bore and lands. Using the Tubbs system on rough factory barrels sometimes helps, but that would be a last resort for me and only after calling the barrel maker.

The cerekote in the barrel is unfortunate, but should clean up with a range session.

It is not the Tubs Final Finish System...It is the Tubs Final Finish System in combination with a "hand lapped" premium barrel.

If you look at the premium barrels with a bore scope you will see they don't need much as they are lapped smooth as glass.. Somthing about slamming an abrasive impregnated projectile at 3000 fps into a hand lapped bore doesn't make me feel to good...

Cerakote should shoot right out.

The problem is that Cerakote is sprayed over an abrasive blasted surface. If they blasted the metal without plugging the barrel...Oh, $#it!

The shop responded over the weekend and I was impressed with the owner's consideration and his in-depth explanation. Good customer service, in my opinion. Here's his response to my query, in which I did indicate that I didn't know exactly what I was looking at and would appreciate some insight.




I would be really impressed if we were "good" enough to put that even a coat of cerakote down a bore without it building up excessively on the face of the crown. I bought Sata detail guns for our C/K work. They'll adjust down to a fairly narrow spray pattern, but not that small. This would take an airbrush and although we have one, there would be no reason to use it on a barreled action of a single color.

In the photo you sent us showing the discoloration you can see a very faint edge break right at the intersection of the crown and the bore. That edge break is the result of the silicone plugs we put in the muzzle end of the barrel when we blast/degrease/spray. The plugs are tapered slightly and when compressed in the hole the immediate exposed portion bulges slightly, creating the faint edge of uncoated steel.

I imagine there are folks out there who have goofed with C/K and accidently applied material up in the chamber/bore area. To date, we've never had this happen.

You also mentioned that the chamber is shiny while the muzzle is not. Consider that we conduct 90% of the machine work when fitting the barrel on the chamber side. One would expect to see a bright surface finish on any of the features we machined. The muzzle however is very innocuous by comparison. All we do is indicate the bore and cut an 11* crown. Had we not cerakoted the face of the crown, you would see a bright finish there as well.

I'm sorry but I don't have an explanation as to why your barrel is fouling or where the discoloration is coming from. Rock Creek's stress relieving process may have something to do with it. If the barrel is "cooked" after final lapping it would be expected to see a change in surface color. -The fact that the breech end is bright/shiny is clear evidence of this as we would have been removing the "stained" portions during fitment to your receiver.

As for the copper fouling I look at it like this.

1. Is the fouled bore creating any sort of issue with the overall functionality of the rifle?

1a. -Accuracy problems
2a. -Pressure indicators on brass, specifically primers going flat/cratered or ejector marks
3a. -Is there any sort of functionality problem such as hard extraction, sticky bolt, difficulty chambering?

If the answer to any of these questions is no, then I don't see the problem and I continue to shoot the rifle. I personally don't subscribe to this notion that guns have to be cleaned with the obsessive/compulsive behavior so common to the firearms community. My PRS rifle goes between 600-800 rounds before I ever put a patch down the bore. -And even with that I only do it because I start to feel guilty for "neglecting" it. The rifle shoots very well and has done so since it was first built early this past spring.

My gut says that you don't have a problem. Go shoot the piss out of it. If it runs the numbers then its not broke.


So, I'm going to go shoot it this week and see what's happening. The black bore thing really threw me, but maybe it does have something to do with a process used by the barrel maker. I'll report back with how things go.

We expect critter photos also

Shoot the piss out of it and let us know. I'd love to hear your opinion after a while at the range.

I thought I saw a youtube video a while back with Lilja barrels and it looked black with some copper fowling...I own a Lilja and love it. Not too sure if it's your same issue...

I would send it back to the Cerakote applicator!

Duhh...would be the better response. An old gentleman once told be, "Be carfull of what you ask for...you might get it."

What would be the point? The guy has already given him a tactful "we are done" response.

Well I still don't know what was up with the black bore, but I went after the copper with Montana Extreme Copper Killer and it got out quite a bit more than the Pro Shot Copper Remover. It was still black after cleaning, but felt way smoother when finishing up. I then loaded up about fifteen 6.5x47 rounds with some oddball bullets I only had a handful of (100gr NBT and 129gr SST Blems, all over moderate RL15 charges and .010" off lands) to get it on paper and see what was what. It took three shots to get on paper at 100yds. The next three NBT's went in half an inch. Shot two three-shot groups with the SST Blems and both were about 3/4".

The bore now looks quite different, being much lighter in color and with a much more typical amount of faint copper indicated. Not caked on like how it first appeared. I'm going to scrub it again and start load work-ups with better bullets and a chronograph. I don't know what the deal was with the condition in the pics above, but it looks like the rifle is going to shoot. If it doesn't, I'll be sure to mention it. Thanks for all those who offered insight to this unusual situation.

The rifle is going to shoot fine. If there is an issue, its not going to be because of a little over spray in the muzzle. Its a rifle barrel, not a rolex swiss movement.