I was planning on a build for a .223ai to shoot 3-600yds-ish with but I just found out my varmint AR15 does a lot better than I would have thought at 600 with 55gr V-Max.

So now my mind has brought me to a FAST .224. I've heard of a few that have build the 22 Creedmoor (Horizon seems to like them) and thought it would be cool since I already have a 6.5 CM.
**Maybe a 6 CM in the future for a whole family of them.**

Does anybody have much experience, thoughts, barrel life?

Any info will do.

... and no, I don't want a 22-250ai since I'm going for the Creedmoor Brady Bunch.

Thanks!

What is the difference between the 22 Creedmoor and the 22-250AI, other than the shoulder geometry?

Fireforming?

Case capacity is closer to 22-243.

600 in the wind with a 55 out of 223 AI and you ain't gonna be happy, but I digress..

I've got a GAP 22 CM in the vault. Have not taken her for a spin yet. Be prepared to spend $200 plus on a set of dies and another $150 on neck turning equipment.

Curious to know more info on your rig... Specifically why you need to turn necks and what dies you bought for $200+.

neck turning is generally required for best accuracy if that matters to folks.

Custom dies are never cheap. Especially match related, and neck/fl shoulder bump neck bushing dies and bushings.. Again if you are concerned with accuracy.

If you are just buying loaded ammo from a store or off the net etc....then generally speaking, you aren't concerned with top accuracy.

There are at least five in this part of the world.
The guys who own them increase the powder charges until a primer blows and then back off .5 to 1.0 grains.
They are getting really high velocities.
At least, with the 22-250 AI, you could use Lapua cases and there is laboratory pressure tested data.
I doubt there is much to be gained with the CM based case. Actually, with Lapua cases I would wager the AI will outperform the 22CM.
Whatever makes you happy...it is a vanity...not performance.

Mine's basically an Extreme Hunter, chambered in 22 CM.

In order to properly size 6CM cases, your need a 22 CM custom FL die from Whidden. Add the seater and your well over $200. You will need to turn the necks to avoid a donut forming. Costs vary, but a decent expander die, turning tool and mandrel will cost $150 on up.

Why couldn't you use 22-250 Lapua brass to fireform 22CM?

David

You could

Are you dead set on a 22? I only ask because a 6 Creed or 243 or any other number of similar cartridges will easily shoot 55gr varmint bullets over 4k fps. You then have at the same time something that will also suffice on deer, antelope, etc.

TBH, I have a 28" 243 that shoots the 55 BTip 4150fps easily. Crazy accurate too..

I spoke with Josh Lappin from Copper Creek Cartridge and he gave me a quote of 1000-1500 on barrel life and also spoke with Horizon firearms and he gave me a quote of 1700-2300 barrel life.

If it was the later of the 2 I would go ahead and build the 22CM but I'd be pretty upset if I only got 1000 rounds down the tube so I'll either build a 223ai or a 6mm Creedmoor.

Sure would be cool to have a 22CM, 6CM, & a 6.5CM though!

Josh Lapin is definitely someone that can guide you in the right direction. He has a ton of knowledge and first hand experience with all things Creedmoor... Not to mention he makes some awesome ammunition!

How about a switch barrel or even a Remage lug nut set up for all three? Shilen has a sweet deal on DGA (Stiller) actions set up this way.

Not sure how many calibers you can go but a single bushing neck die would work for the .224 & 6mm version. Not sure if you could go all the way to 6.5 mm with a single die body and appropriate bushings for each, worth a call to Foster or Whidden.

So, let me see if I'm getting this...

The 250 Savage was necked down to 22 caliber and the 22-250/22-250AI was born.

Then later in life somebody necked the 22-250 up to 6.5 to create the 6.5 Creed.

And now, we're going to neck the 6.5 down to 22 caliber so we can make a 22 Creed?




Dave

deflave you forgot the 25 Creedmore.

I'm kicking around the idea of necking a .308 down to 6mm.

What do you guys think?





Dave

Lots of lube

My ONLY push for the 22CM is in HOPES that a factory says "LETS DO THAT and GIVE IT a 1-8" TWIST"

Which apparently scares the living shiet out of everyone cranking out a 22/250

6mm-.257 could be easier

And that would make sense from a marketing standpoint.

But since Winchester opted for the 10" twist on the WSSM...




Clark

Couldn't you just use a Redding S die for a 6.5 with the correct bushing? Even still, for some reason 6.5 dies aren't cheap either...

Couldn't you also just, Ackley the 22-250?

Or run a Swift in a long action?




Dave

DeflaveO, necking down is painless.

Buying bags of brass,seating a bullet and making a rifle go BANG is more easier.





Dave

The Swift shot in a 1-8 twist barrel is one sweet cartridge....

And it works very well with the longer bullets in a push feed M70 short action.

But a 1-8 22 Creed would be sweet as well!!

Seems to me twist is the key; headstamp, less critical...

DF

PF M-70 SA is a sleeper...

More mag length, swing safety, solid action, generally not expensive.

It's so "un-cool", it's cool...

DF

Yeah butttt....

It doesn't appeal to the vanity like a wildcat cartridge. The .22 Creedmoor, being a wildcat might possibly shoot faster/flatter/more better than your factory cartridge.....


Kinda like a .223AI......

DF- You are so right on the old push feed M70's....

Have you ever considered necking the 25-06 up to .270?




Clark

OUCH...

DF

Its been done....

by the LGBT community.


You got yours yet?

Bully.

Free.

Zone.





Dave

So wildcat a wildcat? Holy schit......

Guys who load until they blow primers and then cut back seem a little cavalier to me. But, I'm a rather cautious reloader.

I'm not a cautious reloader. At all.

And this project makes about as much sense as sticking your dick in a garbage disposal.



Dave

deflave, you have such a smooth way with words!!!!!!! Cool!

Alcohol can make a guy say good stuff.




Clark

Youre not drinking enough to gain full perspective...

THEN you load it to 22 CHeetah speeds, take pics of no traditional signs of pressure and rag on about how much more efficient it is than the 308 case.

Flave Precision will crank them out in droves.

Even 'flaveprecision has ethical stretching limitations.




Dave

That's a lie.

Send us your order.




Dave

Dont forget to throw in the shoulder angle, angle....

This is a wildcat off of a wildcat, which means Uber.

I've never understood the Creedmoor fascination.

There was already the 6XC and the 6-250 and all its variants way before the Creedmoor came along. And I'm sure somebody had already played with the 6.5s in a 250 case. It's not like any of this is new!?!?

But somebody (GAP?), breathed life into the 6.5 in a 250 case and everybody had to have one. And to top it off, the only brass you can find is [bleep] Hornady brass!?!?

Like everyone else is telling you, go 22-250AI or if you want something different, go with a 30 degree shoulder. You'll be far better off in the long run.

The creedmoor case addressed all the short comings of the 308 family of cases...sloping shoulder, and lack of latitude in the magazine with heavy bullets. And you don't have to fire form to get there...

I can't say anything about the 6.5, but I've had really good luck with Hornady 308 Match stuff.

Like the 250 Savage and 22-250AI and 6XC had done before it.

I thought it was the 30 TC case?

The 250 savage has a lot of taper and sloping shoulder.

The 6xc isnt factory.

The 22-250ai isn't factory and requires fire forming...

I wanted to be super-different so I built a SAAMI 22-250.

Based on what I read on the internet I think I'm the last one.




Dave

What makes the 22/6 Creedmore case any more of a factory offering than the 6XC?

They make headstamped cases for it. No fireforming.

We'll all be dead when the disadvantages of the 308 hull makes all those cases and cartridges dry up....and the 30 TC replaces it.

Pretty much!

The 6XC has been around a long time. David Tubb offers factory loaded ammo for it. He's been shooting heavy 6mm bullets out of that case for a LONG time.

The 6.5 Creedmoor I can somewhat understand. Nobody was offering a 6.5 on the 250-3000 case.

Necking any of them down to 22 just makes ZERO sense. Just buy a batch of Lapua 22-250 brass and go to town. If you want to go 30 or 40 degrees on the shoulder, go for it. Just fireform and you're there. No necking down, no neck turning, no bullshit.

Again, this makes sense. Because the factories keep spitting out 1-14" twist 22/250's and lots of old guys that hunt wearing leggings, love slow twists.

Agree with you wholeheartedly there. Remington really needs to pull their head out of their ass. They might be the worst.

I might also add "no fireforming" is total BS.

Too much variance in both brass and chambers for anyone who pays enough attention to detail that shoulder angle or COL latitude matters to the degree it apparently matters that firing fresh brass is no big deal.

Agreed.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...ote_about_new_vs._1x_fired_#Post11261335

David

I'd be interested in hearing what speeds guys are getting from a 22 Creed and with which bullet.

I'm getting 3,300fps with the 75gr A-Max.




Clark

I can't win, for years everyone kept saying what a PIA it was to fireform brass and not worth the effort, now fireforming is the only way to go....

Steelhead,

I'm with you, for the life of me I cant stand why anybody is scared of fireforming. You get equal or better performance than the parent while doing it, all the while getting more trigger time on game or targets. Win/Win in my book

Consider this real world application:

22-243 IA

75s at 3650, easy, 8T(throated .060)

60g Sierra, Nosler, and hornady at 3900+(zero freebore reamer)

60g partitions destroy deer out of a 14T if you have a used BR barrel laying around.

Use std Redding 243 AI competition dies with bushings and/or RCBS 22-243 AI seater.

I fire form with 14.6g of Bullseye and cream of wheat, this is very, very easy to do. Or, you could work up a load, hunting with fire forming loads.

Use Lapua brass, but Winchester brass is giving me good service(5 reloads) once fired as 243 at that.

No feeding issues ever out of an unaltered Rem 700.

I have both 6 mm and 22 Creedmoors. I resize the once fired brass from the 6 mm (Hornady 6 mm brass) in a Redding FL die with a .254 bushing. I use a Hornady seating die I cobbled together after calling them and ordering different pieces and parts. I'm running it on an xray chassis with ASIC mags and haven't had a single issue with feeding.

What I've found so far is whatever works in the 6 mm works in the 22 within a .5 grain or so. I've used 4831SC, R26, MRP and Retumbo with both 75 AMAX and 77 TMK's. All three use roughly 45 grains of powder in either load. 47 grains of MRP fills the case to the top, 46 gets to the neck/shoulder and 45 is just below the shoulder.

The TMK's for whatever reason are a bit faster by about 50 fps. I get 3600 fps with the 77's and 46 grains of MRP in my 23" barrel. I've settled on 45 grains for 3545 fps.

With both rifles sighted at 100 yards, the 6 mm requires 29 clicks on my Nightforce mil scope at 600 yards with a 105 Hybrid at 3050 fps. The 22 requires only 19 clicks with the same scope. Both seem to buck the wind about the same but the 22 is flatter.

My gunsmith simply took a 6 mm Creedmoor case, necked it to 22 and sent it in to have a reamer built. Accuracy is fantastic.

I've already got a spare barrel figuring I'll burn it up quickly since I just shoot it and don't baby it. I'll probably set the new barrel at 19 or 20 inches. From what I've been able to find, an 18" barrel doesn't lose too much from a 22" barrel with the 22.

3,600fps with that case and bullet combo seems reasonable.




Dave

What size groups are you getting with the 75 Amax, parshal?

I only shot the AMAX long enough to determine that it was slow than the TMK so I've stayed with the TMK for now. During my load workup accuracy was similar to the TMK.

Here's a five shot group with a bad flyer but you get the idea of the accuracy potential. This was with 45.5 grains of MRP. I've since reduced it to 45 for simplicity since the RCBS loader is set up for that in the 6 Creed. That's at 3593 fps.