Anybody use their service for barrel installation? If you have what was your thoughts on quality and finish?

I had them install a 338-06 stainless XX on a Remington action about 8 years ago. They did a good job, the rifle shoots 3/4" with most any load I have tried. As best as I can remember it only took about 3 weeks. They don't do any finishing, if you want it coated or blued you will have to send it to someone else after you get it back from Douglass.

Thanks for the reply. I am trying to decide between Douglas and PAC-Nor.

I have and will not do it again. Their prices on the website were not accurate at the time and they took me for a couple hundred more than advertised without batting and eye.

I like Douglas barrels a lot. I prefer to have them installed by IT&D.

For that money, in the future I will look to Pac-Nor. YMMV

Never had a problem with Douglas.

Another vote for I T D. They only use Douglas and can do any metal work, bluing, etc. And charge way less than Douglas. If you dont want to change your stock they can exact copy the barrel contour and it will perfectly fit the stock

I've had Douglas install 3 barrels for me. No issues with any of them. First two were easily sub-MOA with me behind the trigger. The third I have not yet had time to do load development. For me, price was always consistent with what was posted on the website. Longest lead time was ~6 weeks.

An added benefit for me, Douglas is less than a 4 hour drive from my house. Two of the rifles, I dropped off the action in person. On both occasions, when discussing what I was after, Stan has recommended small tweaks that I have incorporated. They are good folks...

Stan is a great guy!

I got a long chambered Mauser factory Douglas 260 unused for cheap, $115.

What is wrong with it:
1) 10" twist
2) beautiful factory bluing in the bore causes Copper fouling fast.

What is good about it:
1) Shoots 100 gr Nos bal tip bullets great until fouled.

Clark, bluing ain't causing that.

Butch, I know a few things about scientific method, and I hold others to a higher standard than myself.

Clark, I don't understand your post. Yes I see copper in a barrel. I have many many blued rifles with the most of them with blue in the bore. They don't copper. Just JB it out and be done with it.

You could have said that you doubted the bluing caused the fast fouling.

I could have asked how much of the fast fouling do you think is attributed to the bluing.

We could has spoken like we understand science but did not really know much about the fouling at the level of controlled experiments validating equations. When you play by the rules, you have to admit you don't really know much. You want to guess, but you have hypothesis bias. That's a start. Then there is lots of work to formalize the hypotheses and get those hostile to it to replicate the data, etc. It costs a lot of money. I have yet to see ANY controlled studies on Copper fouling, let alone the effects of bluing. If you know anything for sure, please tell.

I do not understand your point. If I see a little copper I clean it and shoot. I've not had a problem with any unusual copper fouling. I don't know your rules or what they happen to be.
Not trying to be rude, I see no point in going further with this myself. Maybe the others find it interesting.

Well I learned something from researching for my response to Butch.
It is common to plug the bore when bluing to prevent the bore from being blued.
But in hot bluing, they have to use a vented plug so expanding gas does not pop out the plug.

Clark, thanks so much. Your scientific research is just great. I've had blued rifles for 60 years only and didn't know that! Probably because mine do not copper foul. Could you research this and tell me why I'm so lucky?

Butch, I like you and did not want to go off on you, but when you said that I was wrong about Douglas bluing my bore sped up Copper fouling, I put my science hat on.

It seems that Carl Sagan made the Richard Feynman angry with talk of nuke tests causing global winter. So he made some videos on scientific method.
The greatest physicists alive today are using these videos to make fun of the big bang theory, inflation of the universe, the multiverse theory, and string theory.

Feynman:
From transcript:

"In general, we look for a new law by the following process. First, we guess it (audience laughter), no, don’t laugh, that’s really true.Then we compute the consequences of the guess, to see what, if this is right, if this law we guess is right, to see what it would imply and then we compare the computation results to nature, or we say compare to experiment or experience, compare it directly with observations to see if it works.

If it disagrees with experiment, it’s wrong. In that simple statement is the key to science. It doesn’t make any difference how beautiful your guess is, it doesn’t matter how smart you are who made the guess, or what his name is… If it disagrees with experiment, it’s wrong. That’s all there is to it.”

Clark, I'm speaking of my experience only. I call it empirical data. You showed a picture of a (factory) or maybe custom blued barrel and said bluing is the cause. You then talk about scientific data to possibly prove your point. Could you point me to where you got your data? I can only speak of my rifles only.

I did not say I had data, I just suggested you did not when you said I was wrong.

As an overpriced engineering consultant for decades, I was very careful not to contradict others.

Before I correct someone, I should get my ducks lined up:
1) Why would I want to correct them? [challenge them in corporate talk]
2) Can I back it up?

After the pitiful and long thread on science of barrel break in at snipers hide... the lack of ANY controlled experiments.... I could guess the landscape was bleak for Copper fouling data.
That thread was my insight that you could not back your challenge to my post.

Whatever, this is a bunch of Crap. You say my data is flawed because I haven't offered any evidence from Einstein to say Butch's barrels have no copper problems. Jeeez, if it is that important to you, do the research.
You know Clark, my best friend of over 55yrs and partner in our little business is an engineer as are many friends. They are chuckling over this thread as I am also.
I'll let you have the last comment as this has turned into a joke.

Continue!

I am not a fan of Hawking's current position on information lost or not lost in black holes, but I am still a fan of Hawking radiation. I look forward to a time when there is nothing but low frequency photons. Without mass, there will be no time.

Bluing doesn't cause copper fouling, rough bores cause copper fouling.

You have a blued barrel that happens to copper foul.

Correlation does not imply causation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

While it is not the case that correlation is causation, simply stating their nonequivalence omits information about their relationship. -Edward Tufte

Crow hunter, because you offer no calculations and/or data to support the two assumptions in your first sentence, I think your post would fall into what professor Tufte is calling "simply".

Firing the rifle is the cause.

I heard he actually had a date last week.

He was later found with dislocated arms, a broken leg, broken glasses, a dislocated jaw, and 4 broken ribs.

It is theorized his date stood him up.

Chuckle, chuckle, ha ha ha ha!!

I hope the OP got the answer before this thread was derailed. Sorry for my part in it.

rough bores cause copper fouling not hot or cold bluing unless you let the bluing salt stay in the bore and it caused rust and pitting.

+1 Correct answer!

Doesn't blueing increase drag on polished metal surfaces? If so, would this indicate that the surface is rougher when blued than when polished? I believe that blueing is a rust process and not a coating. The surface is affected and this might cause some extra roughness over a surface that is polished. What ever the cause, the copper fouling is easier to see when the bore is blued. I don't remember the plugs coming out of the bore when hot blueing, but it's been a long time. We tried not to blue the bore back then.

I guess you could call rust bluing a rust process. What about the SS barrels with the same copper??

There is a local Smith that blues a lot of barrels. I asked him about plugging the bore, he said don't worry about it a couple of patches with JB and it will be gone. I have two that he blued and it seems he was right.

Seems like all evidence of bluing would be gone quickly with the firing of a few rounds.

That ain't even a choice - Pac-Nor is it hands down. I have more Pac-Nor barrels than any other including Brux, Criterion, Douglas, Hart, Kreiger, Schneider, Shilen, and Pac-Nor is right there among the most accurate. Their installation is good too boot.

Kinda like Chebbys and Ferdges. We like different brands for our own different reasons.

What makes you so sure about THAT? Can you prove it?😜

I wonder if good ole Dyna Bore Coat would help that fouling problem?

I've had both Pacnor and Douglas and they both shot very good, I doubt you would be able to tell much difference in accuracy between them.

Pacnor bores are lapped and Douglas bores are not lapped, which is a difference. Douglas fouled a lot, as much as factory barrels, and Pacnor very little.

Pacnor installed mine and did a very nice matte finish blue, a local smith blued and installed my Douglas.

I've had Douglas do a couple barrel installs for me a fast twist 243 and fast twist 204. Both guns were done in bead blasted stainless steel and the final cost with shipping was like $650. On their installls they use the xx air gauged barrels so they should be good. Both of the guns have been extremely accurate and I have had no problems. I have shot them both to foul cleaned them and didn't have a problem at all after that.