After years of thinking about what this rifle would look like, I've dreamed of a Mauser based hunting rifle since my early teens... The donor 1909 barreled action has arrived. Now to start accumulating the rest of the parts...[list]
-McMillan Win featherweight if they'll do a Mauser inlet, Mark X if not
-Wisner two position safety/shroud
-23" CM featherweight contour
-new trigger- unsure as to which one
-black cerakote barreled action

What I'm unsure of is caliber. This will be my main hunting rifle, 80% deer, 20% elk. I don't want to open up the bolt face or alter feed rails, knowing the mag box length I don't think my original plan of 280AI will work, unless someone has a cheap fix. Thoughts?

Good Morning Nick,
That's beautiful! I'd go .270 Winchester or 7x57. Do you have a gunsmith yet for this build? So how's the family doing? I'm trying to get Laura out of bed so we can make the 0900 church service.
Take care,
Joe

Thanks Joe,
Working on the gunsmith, it's going to take me long enough to get the parts together... Thanks for the suggestions, I'll keep in touch with you as it progresses. Good luck getting to church, not happening for us this morning, bad cold running around the house and the inlaws will be here in a couple hours...
Happy Memorial day weekend!
Nick

6.5x55 or 7x57 would get my vote

My Left Hand Mauser action is currently being transformed into a .270. Second choice would be a toss up between 6.5x55 and 7x57.

.275 Rigby

Rookie question on 275. I know it and 7x57 are one in the same to point of interchanging ammo but are the chamber specs and traditional twist rates any different between the two? Is it simply a case of Rigby renaming an existing military round?

Thanks,
Nick

Consider the 7x64 Brenneke.

I believe the Rigby designation allowed them in countries that did not allow the military 7X57 cartridges. Semantics only.

Thanks. Now for a stock question. Does anyone know what fiberglass or carbon fiber stock is closest to the ergos of the Butler Creek Mauser stock? I like the trim dimensions of this stock but am looking for a little higher quality on this rifle.
Thanks,
Nick

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Jim Kobe is an excellent Mauser gunsmith. He knows how to make them feed smoothly. His turnaround was fast and his prices reasonable.

Oh boy!
I have spent more time and money on Mauser sporters than the cost of a modest house.
1. Choice of a gunsmith it critical. Run like hell if he thinks he can make an improved ctg feed perfectly. Stick with a 7-57 or 270W or 30-06...nothing else.
2. Also run if he thinks your 1909 is hard enough. Most need to be hardened. If he says it needs to be "heat treated" bail! Those old military Mausers need to be carburized aka case hardened. Not the same thing as heat treating.
3. Be ready to spend around $3500+ to get a first rate metal job done otherwise don't bother. If you can't handle that then look for an early Browning Safari or an FN sporter made in the early 50's. Either will be a better product than most military Mauser upgrades.
4. The guys who really understand these will want about $10,000 minimum for complete job.
If you haven't passed out, I can provide names.

I'm sorry, I disagree with you.

Same chamber and twist rate.

Yes.

The .275 Rigby was loaded with a 140 gr bullet instead of the 173-175 gr bullet for the 7x57. Otherwise they are the same.

Would also send an email to Jim Kobe. He knows his way around a 1909 and it won't cost you an arm and a leg. As the extractor holds the rim while loading, the more slope the cartridge's shoulder has, the more potential for smoother loading over the feed ramp. However, I have a number of mausers for improved cartridges (7x57AI, 280AI, 30-06AI) done by three different smiths and they all fed very smoothly. Cartridges longer than what the original mauser actions were intended for require modification to the magazine and/or the feed ramp. FWIW, the 7x57 as is, would be a great choice for that action as it requires no modification and is plenty of cartridge for deer and elk with 140-150/60g bullets. There is plenty of length in that magazine to handle the 7x57's bullet selection for chamber throated to a desired length.

Apparently, I have been fortunate with 98s. None of the work done was expensive compared to some of the custom 700 prices I have seen and all has been satisfying.

The 1909 Argentine Mauser has a reputation of being "soft" and vulnerable to lug setback. I have three customs on 1909 actions.
A 240 Wby mag. A .338 Win mag. and a 220 swift , I have not had a problem with any of them. So I take internet wisdom with a grain of salt.

A few years back over on Accurate reloading forum they had a huge debate regarding the need to heat treat the 1909.
Duane Wiebe said it wasn't necessary, I trust his judgement.

To make life less complicated and avoid trouble I would stick with 7X57, 6.5X55, 6MM Rem., 8X57 etc...

270, 30-06, 280, 9.3X62, 25-06. 6mm-06 etc... will also work well, you may not be able to seat the bullets into the lands with some of the longer rounds, but in a hunting rifle that isn't a huge handicap.

Your blueprint sounds like a good plan and should make a wonderful rifle.

If this is the case I have an Argie barreled action for sale. Honestly I have no idea what kind of cost I'm looking at here so I'll try to get ahold of Mr. Kobe next week to see if I'm just waiting my time right now.
Thanks guys!
Nick

Butch,
Good to hear from you. Just passing along what I learned from Tom Burgess.

My expectations re Mausers are very high.

Fro what you intend to hunt, I would think you could not do much better than the .35 Whelen. With regard to a trigger, I have had very good luck with Blackburn triggers on Mausers. Today they are made by Swift bullet company.

I must disagree also. I have a custom 7x57AI built on a Sako action that's smooth as silk. I just had a gun built on a VZ24 action and chambered in 275 Rigby (7X57) case hardened receiver, bottom metal, trigger guard the bottom metal was engraved along with the trigger guard and pistol grip cap, a custom quarter rib installed and a very nice (expensive) piece of English Walnut for just over $5K.

May I ask who did the work? PM me if that's more appropriate.

Thanks

RM

+1

7x57 imp....would be a good fit...

It is my theory that the reason for some having problems with hardness and some not is....remember there were a slew of smiths back in the day cranking out as many mausers as we do Remington's today...some of the better builders had heat treat done and lots of them had heat treat capability ....there were many hacks out there throwing rifles to gather in the modern higher pressure stuff .....this may be the reason for the difference of opinion....so before you do anything have a hardness test done....and go from there...every Mauser I have tested that was in military formwas real soft...some that were sporterised were harder.....
Yours looks to be an origonal.....send it for heat treat...you will know what you have and doesn't cost much....may as well have the bolt done too..the 1909 was a choice action for the old builders....
When I started gunsmithing I got a lot of Mauser info from some really old gunsmiths...most are gone now....
They were in there 80 s 15 years ago...
Glen Chapman comes to mind.....he was a wealth of knolage on mausers.....founder of the chapman safety....lots of help for me starting out....don't know if he is still with us I haven't seen him in a long time....

Rigby contracted Mauser-Werke to supply what were essentially European CIP 7mm Mauser spec barrels attached to Mauser actions.

I don't recall Rigby ever renaming or marketing the 7mm Mauser as the '.275 Rigby' .Rigby simply marketed what they referred to as
their .275 bore.

When Rigby advertised commercial ammunition for their model #1 (regulated for 175grain) it was refered to as;
'.275 Bore Standard Cartridge'...

175 grain Kynoch 7mm Mauser ammunition was Rigby over-labelled;

'10 cartridges for .275 Bore Rigby Magazine Rifle' ( i.e. for the Rigby Magazine Rifle in .275 bore)

140 grain ammunition was Rigby labelled;

'10 cartridges for .275 Bore Rigby Special High Velocity Rifle' ( i.e; for the Rigby Special High Velocity Rifle in .275 bore)

Rigby Special High Velocity Rifle (regulated for 140) came in two models- #2 and #3(Special Lightweight) they were marked;
'Rigby .275 High Velocity' atop the front receiver ring....or alternately, Rigby at times instead engraved the barrel to read:
'Sighted For Rigbys Special High Velocity .275 Bore Cartridge'

There was no ammunition made available that stated '.275 Rigby' on the case or the packaging, not even on the labels Rigby stuck
over Kynoch ammunition boxes. Rigby simply referred to the 7mm Mauser chambering of its models #1, #2-HV, #3-HV as .275 bore
The 175 grain Kynoch boxes Rigby over labelled still had '7mm Mauser' clearly visible.

100% agree, Careful choice of maker is indeed critical.




That really depends on the capability of the smith.
I know Ralf Martini and Hartmann & Weiss (and others)build small ring Kurz mausers in fat stumpy .270wsm and .300wsm.
Ive personally handled them.
Ralf or Otto won't send out bum rifles to customers... Ralfs rifles typically become working rifles not safe queens.

Reimer-Johannsen Kurz WSM, http://www.mauser-rifle.com/cms/en/systems/short.html



My memory from following that thread was that Duane made a fool of himself.
He made the assumption that his experience overrides everyone elses in the custom gun Industry.

The vast combined mauser experience of Holland & Holland, Tom Burgess, D'Arcy Echols (and others) is the opposite
to Weibes view on the matter.

Well the decision might be made on caliber. After reading many glowing reviews on Green Mountain barrels I found one on eBay in .270 for $129. It's the F34 contour so I might have the smooth turn it down a bit. I've got a couple voicemails out now to gunsmiths and talked to one today that has a stellar reputation. Honestly the cost to get this action in shape was more reasonable than I'd anticipated.
Thanks,
Nick

So what are you going to use for bottom metal? Blackburn could be a good choice, although do a really good QC examination of it upon delivery. I have one that has a thin region in the magazine box that I wish I had spotted and returned before I started polishing and shaping on it.

There are a number of good triggers, from Timney to Blackburn and Recknagel. I am not sure the more expensive ones are any better than a well-timed Timney.

Good luck on your project. Do a search for guns that TC1 has posted on here. He had some excellent Mauser-based rifles built.

RinB's comment that good Mauser-based rifles are $10k projects is more a reflection of his tastes than what is actually possible.They are not as cheap as building off a modern commercial action, but if you are pursuing a dream, a Rem700 clone sometimes just won't cut it.

If you want a 98 type action and want to minimize the cost and want something that will predictably turn out pretty well then: Find an old Sears/J C Higgins FN or an FN Supreme sporter or an early Mark X. I would prefer an early 1950's FN with the C ring. The double broached actions are ok but a 2nd choice. The old Browning Safari rifles, before the action was "modernized" are good, nice stock etc.

I want something that turns out really well all of the time. No failures no errors.

My preferences are based on dealing with and owning rifles from Tom Burgess, Jerry Fisher, Al Biesen, Monty Kennedy, Earl Milliron, Dave Talley, Herman Waldron, Ted Blackburn, Echols, Smithson, Simillion, and Heilmann.
I don't know of anyone with more knowledge than these gentlemen.

Starting with a military does not make sense today. I think it costs less in the long run to buy a Prectl (SP) or Granite Mountain. The Hartmann & Weiss actions need work...don't believe me, just ask Echols.

Assembling a Mauser is not like putting together a Rem 700/clone. With the latter, you buy a bunch of parts and then find a great machinist. A 98 requires a real gunmaker.

I ordered my first custom, which was built on a 1909, from Tom Burgess in 1969 and Jerry Fisher made the stock and rust blued it. I bagged groceries to pay for it. Total cost was about $1000. A new 1968 VW bug was about $2000.

Utah708
BixNAndy lists a 98 type trigger. It is more than $400 but I suspect it may be the best ever. I used Canjar triggers but my Smithson has a greatly modified Timney, but not everyone is lucky enough to have one redone by Joe.

Lastly, after owning and using all those great rifles I am now convinced it makes more sense to use a Lone Peak or Bighorn action with a Shrike/Echols McM stock for a general purpose hunting rifle. Nothing wrong with a good M700 either.

evans1010
Most of my rifles were 270's good choice. Best of luck.

RinB,
I am completely with you on a military Mauser not being the most cost effective choice. For me it's just one of those give that has been a dream of mine for so long that logic had little to do with it... I wish I could make myself find another, more reasonable choice, but in the end I would just be delaying the inevitable.

I've actually never really been a 270 fan either but for the life of me I don't know why. Everything about it makes sense for a do everything rifle. As far as triggers I am guessing it will be a Timney but I like the thought of the model 70 style trigger from Dressel. My conversation with Dennis Olson yesterday talked me out of a two stage conversion and into a Dakota three position. That conversation also made me realize that I can afford a good Mauser Sporter from a great smith! That is IF I stick to a synthetic stock...

As for bottom metal I will be using the existing '09 as it's one of the reasons I've always wanted one of these actions.

Thanks for all the help,
Nick

Good luck with your build. I hope it turns out beautiful.

Have you looked into this....
http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/dumoulin-mauser-action.aspx

I hadn't seen that but I believe I will be ordering one and selling this Argentine. Thanks for the heads up!

You're welcome Evans1010.

IIRC those dumoulin actions were manufactured in China? Might not matter to you, but it would to me.

Yeah, the made in China aspect does bother me. Mainly due to what appears to be some very rough machining when compared to the action I have in hand.

Anyone have first hand experience with these? It seems their is very little online from anyone who has actually owned or worked with one.

COMPLETE MAUSER LARGE RING EUROPEAN COMMERCIAL ACTIONS MANUFACTURED BY THE FAMED FIREARMS MAKER DUMOULIN OF BELGIUM.

Don't see "China" anywhere in the above sentence.

This guy inside of ten hours is excited to finally get his "dream rifle action" in his hands. Then is pointed out the Dumoulin alternative that he says he is gonna buy and sell his dream action, now he complains that the Doumoulin is made in China and is rough. What gives? He doesn't even know what caliber to chamber his dream action. What's he been dreaming of?

I am having a .275 Rigby made on the Dumoulin action and rough does not describe it. The times I handled it was in the gunsmith workshop. He had an 1909 action also,but the amount of work on the 1909 to get it like the Dumoulin was going to be costly and I did not want to spend that kind of money. The Dumoulin was ready to go right out of the box.

To each his own,if the OP wants to use the 1909,go ahead it his money and choice,I just gave him an different option.

I hear ya. I. Gonna use the Dumoulin for my 35 Whelen.

I have two Dumoulins squirreled away. They are rough and will take quite a bit of cleanup to make them as smooth as your Argentine already is (have one of those as well). If the Argentine is your dream action, stick with it. You've spoken with Mr. Olsen and know what the cost is to do your dream custom, I'd go down that path. Whether or not the Dumoulin is made in China or not, it will always be in the back of your mind. You know where the 1909 was made!

If you are trying to save some money, I would not skimp on the barrel. Go with what the 'smith suggests, they will stand behind it.

I know folks love McM stocks, I prefer MPI or Bansner. Get your hands on a couple at a shop or somewhere see what feels best to you and fits you the best.

Always wanted to do what you are planning, time and circumstances have kept me from doing it and now I know it will likely never happen. Don't let it happen to you!

My suggestion for caliber is European - 6.5x57, 7x57, 7x61, or 9.3x62. Any would be fun for deer and elk. If you want an AI, I'd go modern (Kimber, Law, etc.)

Just my preferences.

Sweet,please post pics when you get it!

Wayyy!! Down the line. Got my 6.5x55 Swedish M98 sporter I bought gonna get a full makeover. Hydrodipped stock, hard chromed barrel and action, new bases and mounts. Then my almost lay-a-way paid off 7mm Mauser M98 also. Gonna do a full job as well. Will post picks. Gonna send the 6.5x55 out to be hard chrome dipped soon. Most folks will think its gonna look like a truck chrome bumper, but, it will look brushed SS. Hydro dip in kuiu camo pattern.

Now,that will be something to see!

I just got to pay off the .275 Rigby and safari (later this Fall) then I'll start saving for money for hunting.

Have two gun safes full of firearms just begging to be used.

Internet rumor?

Here, save yourself some time. I will take the original one in trade
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt.../11885528/1909-bottom-metal#Post11885528

I looked into Dumoulin actions a while ago and discovered some interesting facts. These actions are not manufactured in Belgium as purported on the SARCO website.

"The barelled actions are manufactured in Belgium by E. Dumoulin and Co. from a series of components consisting of trigger mechanisms from England or Belgium, trigger guards from Spain, screws from Belgium and rifle barrels from the United States, as well as incomplete bolt assemblies, bolt stop assemblies and receivers from China."

The reason that SARCO can get away with advertising the Dumoulin action as "Manufactured in Belgium" is apparently due to the fact that a certain percentage of the parts and assembly of the action meet the federal guidelines.

My concern regarding these actions is the Chinese manufactured bolt assemblies, bolt stop assemblies and receivers. Personally, I would not purchase one of these actions based upon this information. I would stick with your 1909 Argentine.

Reference:
Government Rulings Re: Dumoulin Actions