Which one, in your opinion, is already "perfect" in your eyes and couldn't have been designed any better, and why?

22LR

cherry picker!

The 30-06.

The 30-06 is the Crescent Wrench of American cartridges, not perfect, but incredibly flexible/useful across a broad spectrum of cartridge uses.

The 7mm-08 comes to mind.

Despite all the well-deserved Creedmoor hype, the 7-08 is about the perfect, mild recoiling, all-around BG round, antelope to elk.

It has a gentle 20* shoulder for great feeding. It is based on brass that is available even in purgatory. Doesn't have the overly long neck of its relatives. Makes perfect use of the 2.8" SA magazine, and from SAAMI is throated to that magazine length. A modernized SA 7x57, which is about as good a place I can think of for most hunters to be.

The 270 WCF wins everytime against all comers.....

dave

For its age, for what it had to do and the technology of its time, the all time iconic 375 H&H mag. It still kicks ass, is a common "go to" round that truly does it all. I got 2. Can't really go wrong if you needed a rifle from white tails, elk, moose, bears, plains game, lions, buffalo or elephant. Throw in jackrabbits(of course only when they charge. Using 300 gr. Solids)

Winner, winner!

6,5x47 Lapua
338 Lapua Magnum

+2

Winner winner chicken dinner...270!

You won't beat a 7 WSM without going to a long action (bleah).

30-06 and other than Garands, I don't own one at all. Or if bigger stuff on the list, as noted, 375H/H.

Per unit of recoil, doubt you'll beat a 6.5 GAP. It snuggles right up to a 7 WSM ballistically but with less pop. Again, a short action cartridge.

358 Winchester

9.3x62 and 338/06

You have to give props to the 7x57 and 6.5x55. Other than modernizing them to fit in a short action they were pretty perfect for what they are.

What's the value of a short action over a standard action?

Weight and length (or more usable barrel for the same weight and length). Plus fat, short cartridges with steep shoulders are more efficient (decreasing recoil for the same projectile, velocity and rifle weight) and tend to be more accurate.

In terms of cartridges that are tough to beat, I'd say 6mm Dasher (7 or 8 twist), 6.5mm Creedmoor, 7mm-08 and 7WSM/SAUM are examples of very well designed cartridges for hunting in North America. Short, efficient, of various power levels, in the right high sectional density metric calibers, with no major design flaws. The Dasher and 7WSM/SAUM suffer from lack of support though making .243 and 7mmRM more practical choices even though the cartridge design is worse (quite a bit worse for 7RM).

If dangerous game is in play, I would point to .404 Jeffery and .450/400 Nitro Express. There really are no efficient dangerous game calibers (since an efficient shoulder would make the case absurdly wide) so it's just a matter of getting sufficient sectional density and enough diameter while keeping recoil low enough to allow reasonable follow-up shots. Those two have all three properties.

For lever gun dangerous game cartridges, I would look to the .45-90 and .50-110. Not much design to be done really - just needs to fit in an 1886 and hold a big honkin' bullet in a common caliber.

30/06, 7mm08

Ed

Well, value is in the eye of the beholder, right? So a SA might have no value to you. Personally, I prefer short action rifles. Lighter, shorter, and just more efficient.

Edit: all else equal, short actions are more accurate, too.

What's the definition, for this discussion, of a "common cartridge"?

Cartridges that most people on this site have heard of is a far cry from cartridges that the average hunter at a deer camp have heard of. There's a lot of cartridges already listed on this thread that the vast majority of hunters have never even heard of.

38 Special

7x57
280 Remington
308
.45 ACP

Depends on the build I suppose. My leaned 7x57 Swede just seems proper.

Whichever one I have in my hands at the time.......

OR

Whichever new rifle I am LUSTING after at the time.....

EdM, Gorgeous Rifle!!!!!!!! I'm drooling on it from here.

define common?

.308 gets my vote for anything I care to chase around...

The 30-06 is about as well balanced as they get. Wide bullet selection, great shape for feeding, long neck for cast bullets. Most other cartridges are more nich cratridges that do one or two jobs better, but not as a wide range.
Great cartridges: 243, 7x57, 270, 30-06, 35 Whelen, 375 H&H, all great cartridges, with out the fluff and sales hype of the supperdupers and specialty cartridges that you will not find in the small town hardware store.
Some might go a little faster with lighter bullets or carry heavier lead without the ballistics, but, the 06 will do it all in North America. I have many calibers but I will always come back to the 06.
John

I am an unapologetic .270 guy and it gets my vote for that "one" cartridge. My family/extended family and friends, as well as my self have killed more deer and elk with that cartridge than is worth mentioning. I am also a believer in "accurate speed kills" so I prefer the 130 class bullets in the 270. In regards to larger animals, I have personally killed 5 elk and a Cow Shiras moose with the cartridge and 129 grain Barnes or 130 partitions were the bullets. Never felt the need to go to 140's or 150's.

For the majority of North American hunting the 270 Winchester or the 30 06 are very hard to bet. Big bears are the exception, but how many of us hunt big bears?

7X57 it's worked for over a 100 yeas and will work for another hundred.

30-30 1895, 6.5x55 1894, 30-06 1903 or 06 if you want to split hairs, 375 H&H 1912, 7x57 Mauser 1892

These are just some of the "modern" ones.

.300 Whelen.

Couldn't agree more.

If you disagree look at the numbers sold every year and the variety available.

drover

Europeans were for some yrs already using far superior modern flake powders at the time .375H&H was
introduced with inferior problematic cordite.

35 Whelen. Anything an 06 can do a Whelen can do better.

Common:
308 Winchester
300 WSM

Not so common:
280 Remington

243win

30-06 for the entire world, except for thick skinned DG. 375HH for everything, everywhere. The 9.3x62 is a great compromise between the two, and would be my overall choice if ammo were as available as '06.

+1

I doubt there's any bigger fan of the 308 Win than me, but I'm also not one that thinks it was designed "perfectly" from the ground up.

When it was standardized it was saddled with a ridiculously long throat for 180 gr RN bullets, and has it to this day. Obviously on a custom you can get any throat you want, but it can be problematic with factory barrels which stick with SAAMI standardization. I've had more than one 308 that wouldn't group well with 2.8" OAL cartridges, but would bug-hole with bullets seated out to the lands.

In my backyard shooting rats, squirrels, and coons at 10 yards, 22 CB short and 22LR HP sub sonic

900 miles from home, shooting deer and antelope at 500 yards, 7mmRemMag 140 gr Boat tail not per saami 3.29" 61 kpsi, but handloaded at 3.34" and 70 kpsi

For me it's the .270Win,then the .30-06Spr...As close to perfection as I'm gonna get.ScottyO.

Maybe that's why 155 Scenars shoot so predictably in the 308.

Since I am in the west, LR is a real option out here.

For that reason, I think the 7 mag and 300 mag are both very hard to beat.

30-06 Springfield....

+2

Personally if I could only have 1 rifle to hunt everywhere in the lower 48, I would only consider this one as toughest to beat:

6.5x55
26 Nosler
7x57
280 Rem
7 Rem Mag
7 Weatherby
7 Mashburn
28 Nosler
308 Win
30-06
300 Win Mag
300 Weatherby

I guess the list isn't very short. I probably forgot something. And it doesn't look like I care much for short actions, though the 308 Win is compelling. And I am aware of contradictions--a 7x57 is fine, but a 7-08 isn't there. And no 264 Win Mag. And no 270, effective but not appealing to me.

The 28 Nosler, 300 Win Mag, and 300 Weatherby would probably be my last choice. Very effective, but I don't care for the recoil.

Very easy top three:

.223 Rem/5.56, 30-'06 Springfield and 50 BMG.

Kill 'em all clones in Baby, Momma and Papa Bear sizes.

Reaping our enemies, vermin and game for combined total of more than 200 years.

.308 Winchester

what he said - wife or I one have been shooting one for the past 12 yrs - we're both shooting one these days altho mine is a 7-08AI. Great cartridge.

Couldn't have said it better myself. The 308 would be number two on my list

The .270 Win. is the toughest to beat common round. Even though 7/08 and 308 are good, and can have higher BC bullets, the .270 is as good in the wind because it's in the wind a shorter time. Also, drops less.

My vote to the other portion of the question, "couldn't have been designed better" goes to the 300 WSM. Better than an 06, with ballistics matching 300 H&H in a smaller compact rifle.

+1 on .35 Whelen.

30-06 It gets the job done

either the 30-06 or the 7 x 57 loaded with modern powders and bullets are probably the 2 most UN sexy rounds that have been doing all it longer that just about everything else. Honorable mention would go the the 375 HH with 270 TSX and RE15 is overkill for most things but it will work on everything.

270 Win

338 federal

This ^^ and the .284.

270 Win.

270 Win. for just about most uses and 300 Win Mag (or one of its ballistic twins, eg, 300WSM, H&H, Wby) for most other applications. Heavier magnums have a place but their use is pretty limited -except among the rifle loony fringe- in the overall scheme of things.

Funny how everyone has a different opinion...some of the favorites here are cartridges I think are crapola and wouldn't own. Lol

In my opinion, hard to beat the 6 & 6.5 Creed in overall design and performance.

7-08 or 7X57 are both tough to beat for all around.

308 Win is just too simple and works well, too.

"Tough to beat" ballistics right ?? or a personal itch ?

Of all the cartridges mentioned the 300 RUM smokes the crap out of all of them with 215 Berger Hybrids at 3150 fps


3 oz is soooooo mush more heaviers mang......

Rem 700
S/A BDL 2lb 4oz
L/A Bdl 2lb 7oz

My question really wasn't aimed at superior ballistics. Rather, from a design perspective. If we look at each common cartridge and how it performs for it's intended purpose, including all factors like accuracy, reliability, efficiency, etc., which one would the savviest wildcatters say, "nope, I can't do better". The best answer I have heard is the 22 lr, though that is cherry picking.

30-06 and 375 H&H for versatility...the 270 for the most common application of thin skinned deer-like animals in NA. Its cheap, shoots flatter than just about anything out to 400 yds, not a lot of recoil, good enough bullet selection for bigger stuff like moose and bear. For pistol cartridges, Scott made a good point about the 38 special. Enough power for 90% of applications, light recoil, really cheap to shoot, variety of bullets.

Yes sir!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

22lr
222 Rem.
308 or 30/06; a 7x57,270 or 280..the middle road really depends on a lot of things.
375 HH

One could do most anything, really, with a 45 Colt and a 45/70 with one mould and a bit of lead.

So a few months ago I bought a rifle at a garage sale... The fit didn't even know what it was and the caliber wasn't marked.. Had it casted and come to find out it's 6x284.... Does anyone reload this And sell it personally on here or does anyone know a special manufacture that sales this ammo I can't find it anywhere

.22LR

.223 Rem

.270 Win

.30-06

All these are readily available with wide selection of ammunition. They cover most sporting applications - game size / range the majority hunt.

These would be my guesses where cost / availability is an issue.

Looking at rifle manufacturer brochures for mass producer companies like BSA, Parker Hale, Sako, Tikka, Sauer, Heym, Mark X / Zastava in Europe over the last 50 years or so, the common cartridges chambered for are:

.222 Rem in the past but losing ground to .223, .22/250, .243 Win, .308 Win

.270 Win, 7x64, .30/06, .300Win

The 6mm-284 is a wildcat, not loaded by any major mfgs. Brass is easily formed from 284 Winchester brass.

284, 6.5x47

280 Rem

Depends on what you mean by common. To me it means being able to go into any store that sells ammo and be able to get a box of shells for that particular cartridge. First ones that come to mind are .223, .243, .270, 7mm Rem Mag, 30-30, .308, 30-06, .300 Win Mag, and maybe .338 Win Mag. I'd be very surprised if you couldn't walk into any store that sells ammo and pick up a box of those.

Of those, none are of the perfect design. We have learned some things over the years, but new is slow to catch on and I think it will be a while before things like the 6.5 Creedmoor are as common as say a .270. Less body taper, and sharper shoulder are nice. Minimal to no case stretching during sizing. One thing rifle manufacturers could do, is update their twist rates to stabilize modern VLD type bullets. No down side to doing so, and when ammo manufacturers follow suit, it would be a whole new world in capability. Been said many times here that bullets matter more than headstamps, and that is very true. The 6.5 Creedmoor, both rifles and factory ammo are way ahead of the game. Maybe in a few years the non-looneys will catch on and popularity will approach the old standbys.

But, if you want some serious ballistic capability and ammo availability anywhere right now, it might be pretty hard to beat a properly twisted .243, .270, or 7 Rem Mag. You would likely have to reload to take advantage of the really slippery bullets, but you could walk into a store and get ammo anywhere if need be.

John

7-08

Agreed. Hard to argue with that kind of reasoning.

I've had a Remington Custom Shop Model 7 Mannlicher in 7-08 and a Winchester XTR Model 70 Featherweight in 7X57 for YEARS and it's a tough decision every time I have to choose which one I get out of the safe for my "serious" hunting rifle! But it's a a good kind of decision to make if you have to

I gotta vote .223 and 30-06 for honorable mention, though.

I'd have to go with the 7mm Rem Mag.
shoots flat as a 270 Win with the bullet weights of the 30-06 or flatter and ammo can be found everywhere if you don't reload.
Recoils no more than an '06 in a rifle of the same weight.
And, I've had all the common 7's from 7-08 thru 280 as well as the 280AI (still have one) and I've killed deer with a 30-06 and carried a 300 Win Mag after elk for 12 seasons,....shot deer with a 270 Win and a 243 Win......I could have done it all with a 7 Rem Mag.

.308
Loaded down light bullets for varmints and bump it up to heavies for moose.
And anything in between.

An excellent cartridge, which is very common in Europe, is the 7x64 Brenneke.

30-06 gets my vote

30-06 or 270win are pretty hard to beat. They will do it all for anything you can hunt here.

243 for me.

.375 H&H

22 LR. All game under 350 pounds and all target shooting under 150 yards.

30-06. All game from 25 pounds to 1000 pounds at every practical and ethical range
308Win Same as above,but in a semi-auto you can include a modern hi capacity magazine fed fighting weapon too

9.3X62 All game from 25 pounds to 2500 pounds at practical ranges. Near the 375H&H in abilities and at lower cost to make a rifle.Uses standard 30-06 length actions and bolt faces, extractor and so on.

375H&H All game............meaning all game. At all ranges that an ethical hunter would shoot. Also good for very long shots but seldom used for such a purpose. I have, one time, at over 800 yards on my 1st moose. One shot one kill.

Per the OP's perfected design criteria, the 6.5 Creedmoor seems about right.

At the time, and still today mostly, the 30-06.

308

7-08 & 30-06

6.5x55.........a classic...........

My gut says 30/06. I do have a history with the Otter6. But,now that the 280AI has reached "common" status,I think I'll go with it.

7mm-08 and 358 Win. Efficient cartridges that come from the same bloodline.

No one even mentioned the 264Wm....... been around a long time.... Fast and Flat.....

The truth is that most of what are considered "classic" cartridges are very hard to improve on. My votes:

# 1. 30-06 Springfield, its been around for over 100yrs, and is still the standard most new rounds try to compare with for all around use.
# 2. 375 Holland & Holland, , once again its been with us for over 100yrs and it too is hard to improve on for big game
# 3. 7x57 Mauser ( 275 Rigby) , it's also been here for over 100yrs and still does great on light to medium game.
.

The Grand Old 30-06

110 grains for vermin, to 220 grain partitions for everything else save four of the big five.

Si, Senor.

Welcome to the fire with post number 1 and especially so with a common sense non negotiable contribution. Anything else is personal taste. Had all 3, currently have 2 of the 3 as I prefer the .458 over the .375 but that is because it is my rack, but I applaud the above selection.

I have to go with the following!
30-06
7mm RM
308
243
223
22lr
I like the 7 mm Mauser but don't have one any longer, and the 260 is next to fill a safe spot!

Dirty ought six all day every day!

I totally agree with this list as well.

Let's be honest, the much appreciated 30-06 is but an imitation of the 8x57mm. So too it's much appreciated original rifle.

7 Rem Mag. Hard to beat it. Load it down or hot. It's very common. At least half the 20 guys on my lease hunt with one.

Boys gun 5 pounds, 22 long rifle rimfire
Mans gun 10 pounds, 7mmRemMag

30-06
.308
.223

It is a wildcat and strictly a handloading proposition. I made brass for mine out of Lapua or Norma 6.5x.284, I forget which. It would be hard to know what to load for it without knowing the twist. Mine was a 1-14" and wouldn't handle bullets over 75 grains. Many were made with 1-8", even 1-7", twists to handle VLDs up to 115 grains. If you do not reload and don't want to get into it, I recommend selling that rifle.

Tom

Can't disagree with this list.

If a guy had 22 LR 223 and 30-06 you really wouldn't need much more....

Yup .... It's boring but does everything that most others mentioned here do and does it in a short action. Currently own three 308s.

FWIW,
.308, .223 AI, & .17 HMR...

Something mild, accurate, and 6.5mm deserves to make it on that list... Thinking the 6.5x47L, the Cringemoor, or the .260 Remington. That the first two work so well with a stock Remington Magazine Box it is hard to push the latter.

Regards, Matt.

.270 gets my vote

When one looks at various reloading manuals and has reloaded for a number of years, one sees that it takes a great deal more powder to beat a 270 Winchester by just a couple of hundred FPS.

I shoot a 270 WSM so I have experience in that department...lol.

Dan

Before I did my first custom chamber I poured over the pages of the reloading manuals. To my dismay as a .30 caliber man I discovered the.270 was about as good as one could get without getting really wild. Wild is what I did: A 7-.300 Weatherby is what I used for about ten years.

Yes but what are you using now?

270 Win. especially if you consider it's current performance with the newly introduced R26. 3000fps with a 150 gr bullet, tough to beat that.

That 7-.300 Weatherby was rebarreled and chambered to .375-8 Rem Mag. It is just too heavy for this old man.



A used Weatherby Mark V six lug .270 Winchester. When I sent my 6.5SLR, which is on a Weatherby mark V six lug action also, to get a new barrel I went on line and purchased this .270. This very day I am going to give it a try with Hornady 110 grain V-Max bullets. I loaded up 26 to play with. Its hunting load is a Barnes TTSX 110 at 3,475 feet per second. Five shots run between 5/8" and 15/16" at 100 yards.

Would Formidilosus would be proud? I fired ten with the .270. The group is 1 3/16" X 1 1/16". When I figure out how to post a photo I will. By the way, delightfully the impact for both the Hornady 110 and the Barnes 110 happened to be the same.

7mm-08, .308, .300 WSM

Like the 30-60 based calibers for hunting. Especially the 25-06 and 270. My go to caliber is the 338-06, I hunt with it the most.
As for varmint calibers, it has to be the 223. The 17 Tactical is devastating on coyote and smaller game and is a tack driver.

Something that is on the shelf at Walmart. I took a perfectly good .308 barrel off a stanless Ruger MKll and screwed on a Shilen match grade 7mm-08 barrel and doubled the price of the factory ammunition that I shoot. Don't get me wrong, I love that little Brown Precision/Ruger/Shilen combination, but no deer would ever tell the difference between a .308 and a 7mm-08. My kid thought that he got a great deal on a Weatherby Vanguard in .300 Weatherby Magnum until he got around to buying it ammunition. The rifle might have been at Walmart, but the ammunition sure isn't.

Go to your various WalMart stores and keep track of the inventories. 270, 308, 30-06 most popular in BG hunting rounds.
If you are thinking 280 AI then buy a 7RM. If you must have a little more then buy a 300WM.

270 Win and 6.5x55

6.5 Creed will soon join and over take many of these long time favorites

Works for me! A Montana in 7/08 is my go-to rifle.