Which factory available cartridge would you own and why?

None, the 338's I know of kick too hard.

The old 30-06 using state of the art bullets and powders is so good that the 338-06 and 338 Win offer no significant gain. The giant 338’s are just too difficult for portable hunting rifles.

Righto, let the howling start...

I dropped down to the 280 for deers and elks out of state for my hunting rifle. The bullets made me do it.

A dialable elevation turret is the best way to reduce recoil.

Blasphemy!!!! Darn you Rick! Always trying to make sense and stuff simple... I'll keep shooting my 1970's/80's era BBC's out of my 338 and knocking stuff flat! HA!

And I'll take a 338 Win. Easy enough to shoot out of a portable rifle and plenty of power for anything I am hunting..

I doubt I'll have a 338 other than the 338 Win Mag (Ruger SS/LAM) that I have now. This rifle has a lot of sentiment attached and I'll never get rid of it. 200/210gr Noslers have worked on everything from doe pronghorn to bull elk and cow bison for me.

'Twer I looking for a new rifle I'd lean towards something that shoots lighter/sleeker bullets. I'm convinced that nothing I've shot couldn't have been killed as cleanly or as well with something smaller. I can shoot the rifle well enough, but don't really see the reason to put up with that much recoil.

I have a Model 70 with a B&C stock that only weights 8LB 2OZ with a Leupold 3X9 in talley steel mounts, so not really a heavy rifle, settles nicely in your hand when its time to shoot. MOA shooter, with Nosler 210 BT's or 225 Partitions. ( If they don't crack the MOA mark they go away.) Haven't really shot much game with it over the last 30 years, but the deer, elk, and antelope shot with it were DRT. There was less meat damage them with the 270 class rifles. Never really noticed the recoil that much, but I was young and tough. I don't need that much HP these days but it hit hard and shot flat enough to really be an all around North America rifle. A lot more rifle than the beloved 9.3 X 62!

Without knowing what you want to use it for, I would recommend a .338 Win Mag. It can be downloaded to .338-06 and can chase the .340 Weatherby a bit.

Common ammo in local stores makes it an easy choice for me..

They are versatile, I have used mine with 180, 200, 210 and 225 grain loads. I have varied the performance level from around 2700fps with the 180's to over 3K, with the 225's I have been from 2740+- to 2850fps. I have used mine on small does up to bull elk. It would have worked on the antelope, bear and sheep if I had chosen to use it.

I bought mine for elk when I thought I needed more than an '06. It remains my choice for bull elk. I also wanted it to hunt moose in grizzly country (I no longer plan to do that).

I would caution against hitting much in the way of bone if used on a deer with 225 grain cup and core bullets......

Gary

I use a 338 Win Mag and never felt the need for anything "bigger". Never had a problem with the recoil on my Model 70's, but I've shot other rifles of the same cartridge that could be painful after a few shots. Always used the 225 grain bullets- NP, Aframe, and Hornady and always had exceptional accuracy and knock down power, which I couldn't always say for some of my other cartridges before. Fine for long range IMO. I've shot at least 2 elk past 525 yards and they were DRT.

I've studied the ballistics of the other .338 rounds available and the small amount of gain in the bigger ones never really seemed worth putting up with the extra recoil, noise, and cost of loading. The 338-06 seems interesting, but frankly it would be a handloading only affair and you couldn't go down the street to the nearest sporting goods store and buy ammo if you needed to. Also, you would lose a bit of the long range edge I believe the 338 WM is good for with the reduced starting velocity. And, to top it off, you can load the 338 in a standard length action and mag box with almost all the bullets available for this cartridge. And it comes in reasonable weight rifles. What's not to like?

Bob

BIL has a 338wm that tags him pretty good, previous owner had shortened the stock, so I load the 250s down to about 2450fp, he is happy the deer bang-flop....

This one is mine, there are likely a few like it, McMcillan stock, decelerator recoil pad, and it fits me....... the wifey shot it at the bench and did NOT complain..... 5'4" about 120#

They don't 'have' to thump you..............

The .338 Federal is a nice one. Check out the numbers using a 200 gr bullet against the .338 mag, 7mm mag, 30-06. You'll like it.

Bullets have advanced and evolved, I get that, and it is now common knowledge that if you shoot anything bigger than a 7-08 or 308 you're laughably over gunned for anything from groundhogs to grizzlies. Old ideas die hard so I like more substantial calibers however unneeded. I have no need for any 338 yet own a few. I mainly hunt deer and black bear by geography, and dreams of chasing elk or hunting alaska will remain just that. I don't own any customs, but a 338 RCM, 338 Win, and a 340 wby. My favorite (right now) actually is the RCM due to the ruger compact rifle platform. However ammo will probably difficult to find if travelling. The obvious choice seems to be the most common round the 338 Win.

I've had 3 338 RUMs, a 340 WBY and now have 3 338 Winchesters. Like them all.

If I was looking for one now, I would get a Win Mag, load it with 225 Barnes and go kill stuff.

I "started out" with my 358 Savage 99F in 1966 at my 'camp' in VT. That was my big game rifle!!!

A 338 Federal would kick about the same as the 358.

"Check out the numbers and find that they all kick hard."

I kinda like the .338 bore. It's one of my favorite calibers.

.338WM. Fitted with the proper stock recoil is not an issue.

.338-06 would be my second choice, but for me the .338WM is it.

The 338 Fed makes things rather dead. Can't imagine a win mag making an elk more dead, or even dead any quicker. Longer range, yes. But there are other calibers I'd look to for long range short of going to a 338 Lapua.

I'd go with a .340 Weatherby. I had a .338 RUM which duplicates it. I had it ported and recoil wasn't bad at all. It absolutely hammered deer and elk and was a tack driver. Wish I hadn't sold it. Brass for the .340 can be made from several other cartridges so that would give it the nod.

I have had several .338's, but rebarreled a 700 to ,340.. I like it better than the shorter case.. Recoil is not a problem.. you are shooting prairie dogs with it..

Most of these guys are puzzies huh Scotty... My choice is, and always has been, the 338WM.... As I've stated before, my 338 weighs 7 pounds and it's very easy to manage. Off the bench, off a pack, off my hind legs, I don't give a fu ck.. It's not hard to shoot and knocks the snot out of elk...:

Picture proving it's easy to shoot:

L-61 Sako is the ticket!

Well, I’m not sure all of them are, Rick kills more animals than the Black Plague so I’m not questioning his killing ability but like you mentioned I don’t find my 338 tough to shoot. I do like my 338 though. It’s been a consistent killer with just about any Bullet.

I had a pre'64 Win. M/70 .338 WM that would shoot bug hole groups with Speer 275 gr. RN and a healthy charge of IMR 4350. It was the most accurate M/70 I've ever owned.

Ruger model 77 in .338 WIN MAG end of story ! All those 30/0SUX proponents cant handle a mans gun anyway ! My 6 year old niece shoots my .338 like a .22

338 Win mag. I have a 24” 340 as well that is a fantastic shooter. I would choose the 338 Win mag over others because it shoots down the middle in 338 cartridges, is not specialized and provides great horsepower.

I am sure I an the "odd man out" here but my 2 favorite 338 bore cartridges are the 2 smallest ones.
The 338-06 and the 338 Federal.

I have owned a few 338 Winchester Mags, built many 338 Win mags for several customers, seen them used many times and I also have seen the 340 Weatherby and the 338 Ultra mag used. All worked well. But none of them seem to cover the bases as well as my 375H&H. When I was hunting with my own 338 I could not see any real difference in how fast it dropped game from a 30-06 or my 270 Winchesters. Many men will scream at that statement as if I was speaking badly about their daughter, but that is what I have seen. It doesn't fit with the magazine articles, but the truth is the truth.

I have also built a lot of 338-06s and two 338 Federals. These shells seem to give extremely good performance for the size of the gun and the recoil they develop. Personally I have never shot a single animal with a 338 Federal, but I have seen 3 antelope and 2 elk killed with the cartridge and I have nothing bad to say about it.

I have killed a handful of game with my own 338-06s and I have seen about the same number killed by clients and customers with the same cartridge. Again no complaints at all. Several elk killed with the 338-06 dropped faster than the ones I killed with my 300 magnums.

Both the 338-06 and the 338 Federal fit 4 and many times 5 rounds in a standard bolt action magazine. Both kick less then the magnums. Both can be highly accurate. Both can be made with shorter barrels and give up no meaningful velocity. And the 338 Federal can be used in AR10 style actions for those that like the auto loader.

When it comes to big magnums, I have largely sold off most of mine because while they all work fine, the hoopla I have read over the last 50 years has not been anything I have actually seen from using any of them, except for the 375H&H. As of right now, the only belted mags I have not traded off or sold are my 375H&H and my 300 H&H. I also have a 404 Jeffery, but it's not called "magnum"

My 375H&H is all I could ever want in a rifle over 30 cal. I have used it so much I needed to re-barrel it about 20 years ago. Shot out the rifling in the throat. It really does work as well as the old writers said it does.

My 300 H&H I still have because it's just a cool old Mauser rifle, and it works very well, shoots MOA or a bit less, but I can't say with any honestly that I see a lot of difference on game shot with it and with game shot from my old 300 Win mag, my 308 Norma mag, my 338 mag, my 30-06s or even my 270s. I have nothing bad to say about the 300 H&H, but I see no "magic" in it's killing effect either. I just like the rifle. It's charm to me in in its ease of loading accurate ammo, it's classiness, and the fact it feeds so smoothy that you can't tell the difference in feel from cycling the action loaded or empty.

But the real unadorned truth is that in all the cartridges I have owned and killed game with in over 50 years of hunting, I see very little difference any any of the cartridges from a 270 Winchester, 280 Remington, 7-08, 7X57, 7MM Mags, 308 Winchester, 30-06, all the 300 mags I have used (6 of them) 8X57, 338-06, 338 Mag, if all of them are loaded with a good bullet that will give exits.

The 375H&H.....yeah, that one I can see a difference with. But even stepping up to the 375 I will say without any hesitation that on quartering shots and broadside shots, the effects are more pronounced, ----but not extremely so.

As a younger man I read the articles and believed many of them, I built or bought such rifles and I used them. They all work. But now that I am doing all my own thinking and drawing 95% on my own experience instead of someone else's. I have to say that the cartridge you own if far less important than the bullet you use in it and that is less important then how well you can shoot it. YOU are the key, not your rifle.

I like my big rifles. But I don't have a religious dedication to them. Truth is far more important to me then "object worship". I do not try to "evangelize" others to use what I like, and I need no "support" from them to justify my own choices.
50+ years of killing game in many states and in a few other countries has proven to me that an expanded bullet through the vital organs of any animal that can break bone and still exit is all you ever need. It's the bullet hole that kills, not the gun or the bullet itself . Get a good sized hole clear through, with an exit, in the right place, and you are just fine. No matter if you use a 600 Nitro or a bow and arrow.

So if I ever make myself another 338 Bore rifle it's going to be a classic British/ Mauser style with a 24" barrel in 338-06 ----or a short KAR action (or something similar) in 338 Federal with a 17" barrel, full stock and classic Schuler styling.
I'd load 225 grain bullets in the short carbine and probably the same bullet in the 338-06 but I also might use the 250 grain Partitions or Bonded bullets in the longer action.

Why?

Why not!


As I said, I keep rifles because I like them. "Need" has little to do with it.
Free men buy what they want.
Salves are allowed what they need.

338 WM for me. Its a dandy killer of cape buffalo based on the experiences of many well known hunters and it works about perfectly right on down to deer. Cant ask for more than that. Recoil is not that punishing in a reasonable rifle.

That being said...id rather have a 270 or 280 YMMV

YMMV?

Very nice, shoots a tint tiny bit better than mine, but these are dandy rifles

None, 250 gr Swift A Frame handloads at 2750 fps in any 338 Win Mag M-70 CRF will do it all, maybe you can find and buy factory equivalent.

Could be your problem with the .358 kicking too hard was the stock design.

B[color:#FF0000][/color]aloney

Also, I'll quit trying to squeeze in a quick post with the phone going off at 150 mph.

Szihn,
"But the real unadorned truth is that in all the cartridges I have owned and killed game with in over 50 years of hunting, I see very little difference any any of the cartridges from a 270 Winchester, 280 Remington, 7-08, 7X57, 7MM Mags, 308 Winchester, 30-06, all the 300 mags I have used (6 of them) 8X57, 338-06, 338 Mag, if all of them are loaded with a good bullet that will give exits.

The 375H&H.....yeah, that one I can see a difference with. But even stepping up to the 375 I will say without any hesitation that on quartering shots and broadside shots, the effects are more pronounced, ----but not extremely so."

Szihn,
I believe this to be true based on my own use and observations in the field with one exception. There is a 3rd tier when the .460 Weatherby is added to the list.

Mike378 told me perhaps 30 years ago that everything under .375 is just a big .270 and he was right and is right based on my own oversight. Again, he stated the .375 was a step up that can be noted and both he, you and I, attest to that. The .460 is a large enough jump in caliber, bullet weights and with similar velocities so that it elevated that visual aspect that can be seen to smack very hard.

Always remember clobbering a buffalo with my .460 using a 550gn Woodleigh Weldcore over 121 grains of IMR 4831 for 2509fps and 7690FPE. When the bullet struck with the wack of a broad axe on hardwood, the guide who had previously opined that he had seen it all, remarked, "Good Lord", as the huge animal dropped to the ground. Yes, there is a 3rd tier, but most will never see it.

John

Your mileage may vary...

This is why I like my 338-06, I can run a 225 grain Nosler Partition at 2700 fps. I have yet to catch one in a critter. The recoil of the 338-06 is less than it's larger brothers and kills the same.
I guess, I'm not liking recoil as I once did. It's my age showing. In fact, I'm liking my 30-06, 308 or my 7-08 much more now days.
Take care

Funny you should relate that story. I had the same thing happen when I shot a moose with my .338 WM- 225 Nosler Partitions @ 2950 fps. My guide was behind me after calling a big moose in to our location. As it walked across the trail we had just come up on I put one right in the shoulder at about 125 yards and he dropped in his tracks. I remember like it was yesterday "Je""s C'''st, what the hell did you use? I've never seen that happen before!" practically at the top of his lungs. He did smile as he complained that I could have dropped him slightly closer to the center of the trail so he would be easier to load on the ATV's to take back to camp.....:)

Bob

While not a custom, I have a Montana Rifle Company SCR in 338 Lapua, which has become one of my favorite all around rifles.

The recoil is moderate, substantially less than a friends’ Ruger M77 in 338 Win Mag. I don’t know why, but the 338 Win Mags always seem punishing to me. The 338 Lapua has plenty of muscle to push any bullet comfortably and good brass is readily available. I had a 338 RUM for a short while, which is a great round, but brass and ammo can be hard to find and quality is inconsistent. There are plenty of factory ammo options offered for 338 Lapua with Barnes, Nosler, Swift, and Hornady bullets.

My favorite load is the Barnes TTSX 225 at 3080 fps.

The 33 nosler is high on my build list.

I have only hunted moose in Alaska where I live, and have had several one-shot kills with my .338WM and the following bullets:

a. Moose broadside reaching some birch leaves up on a tree, about 200 yards. Aimed to hit the heart/lung area (low on the chest), and right behind the shoulder bone. Used a 230-grain Lubalox-coated FS (the original FS). The bullet hit the shoulder bone and clipped the heart arteries as it passed though the lungs, broke the far shoulder, and stopped on the hide. It just collapsed on the spot. My friends and I recovered this bullet, and I still have it.

b. A moose eating birch and willow about 50 yards away, unconcerned about my presence on a small rocky knob. It completely ignored me and continued eating when I shot it through the lungs with a 225-grain Barnes X. It took a step forward and dropped on its chest before I had reloaded the chamber with another round. When I was reloading the chamber before the moose dropped, I could see the squirts of blood being pumped by the heart and sprayed on the brush at the far side.

c. Moose about 175 yards away, broadside shot with a 250-grain A-Frame. The bullet hits, and the moose falls over on its side, where it leans against a tree's trunk, and there it dies. My friends and I recovered this bullet, and I still have it.

d. Moose about 250 to 270 yards. I shoot from the same rocky knob mentioned above, just before it walks across a trail and disappears. Shot with a Federal 250-grain NOS HE (a very hot load not longer produced by Federal). The bullet hits to lungs, and a few seconds later it drops where it dies. This bullet broke to pieces (there was lead everywhere), and the jacket passed though.

I have shot several other moose that required more than one shot, but that's because I haven't done my job properly. All the X and TS-X bullets I have shot moose with have passed though, as well as the 250-grain Partition, but all have worked fine once I aim for the right spot. My bullet of choice at the moment is the 225-grain TTS-X (the tipped one). I have seen moose shot several times with rifle calibers a lot bigger than the .338WM, and with smaller caliber rifles than the .338. In my view a good shot kills fast, regardless of caliber.

There are finesse cartridges that kill with finesse and then there are brutes that kill brutally.

If I am hunting a big mature bull elk, I want a brutal round that will slam him hard.

The 338 does that.

I have a Arizona bull hunt this fall, the 338 will be there.

Nilla 338 is magic for a gent that hunts, got all bases covered and then some, reasonable recoil with great killin.... I think the 338 was tailored to 210’s and 225’s.....

But for close hunting in the timber, for example, or perhaps very large game where you want the greatest punch possible, then that's where the 250-300 grain bullets come into play as long as you can handle the recoil. The 210-grainers seem to be quite popular with elk hunters, however, so there is not denying its effectiveness as told by those who used it. I imagine that the 210-grain Scirocco (the tipped one) should be a good one, but again I have never hunted elk.

I am with you about the 225 grainers as an all around bullet for the .338WM. The 225-grain TTSX penetrates like crazy.

Truth Ray!! If I hunted shiit that might/could hurt me, 250’s/300’s would be the shnizzle....

My experience with the .338 Winchester Magnum (which is considerable from Alaska to Africa) is similar to Szihn's and Aussie Gun Writer's. While it sometimes drops big game quickly, so do a lot of other cartridges. I haven't seen much overall difference between the .338 and various .30's, or even some under-.30 rounds.

Have seen more oomph when caliber gets above .35, especially with heavier bullets, which means rounds like the 9.3x62, .375 H&H, etc. And there's another step when caliber goes above .40, and bullet weight increases as well.

But have yet to encounter a big game cartridge that always crumples even deer-sized game with chest shots that don't break shoulders and/or spine.

That is the case with all cartridges (sometimes a shot drops the animal, while other times it doesn't). There are some videos at "youtube.com" where the hunter shoots a moose with a big heavy bullet from his .416, the moose runs around in a circle like nothing happened, so the guy shoots it again on the other side and it finally drops. So all depends on the shot. A good shot with the right bullet at the right speed drops fast, a bad shot not so much. Shoot a cow on the brain with a .22LR, and more than likely it will drop.

There are some bullets out there that are designed to drop deer pretty fast with lung shots. Berger makes one of such bullets, which by the way is not a good choice for breaking the shoulder of deer. The bullet penetrates a couple of inches into the chest by the lungs, and then breaks apart. Also, a lot depends on the bullet being used, from solid to expanding design. That's how some elephants were killed with relatively small caliber guns (brain shots with non-expanding bullets).

One thing about 338's, you can just count on them to shoot good.
Probably the easiest cartridge that I have ever loaded for.

I bought a Ruger Hawkeye last year from Cabelas and shot it with only irons.

Then after reading this thread I was wondering how it would shoot with a scope, so I mounted a Leupold vx2 2-7 cds in Leupold mounts and loaded some Nosler 225 AB's in front of 78.0 grains of RL 19 using Remington brass of all things! My sight in brass before I brought out the good stuff.

I sighted in at 25 and then at 100 with a couple of Sierra 215's.

The next 3 shots did this......at 3,000 fps m.v.


screen shot tool

Have same rifle mine shoots tiny little groups when I do my part. May be most accurate rifle I own. I only shoot
210gr Noslers. Partitions.

Thanks for the replies. Let me give you my line of thinking. I have a good arsenal of calibers, was thinking maybe adding a 28 nosler to the list. However, I have others "like" it and factory ammo for it ain't cheap. So I got to thinking, jump up to 338. It's not like factory ammo is really much worse than the 28. I can't believe where ammo prices are at these days. I guess prices on just about anything actually.

Based on some of your other rifles you've posted about, I'd put the 338 money into a hunt for a critter or place you've never been!

Solid advice right there, I’m gunned/McMillaned up now, got the battery pretty well covered, time to start adding to the critter collection!!!

Have an EDGE and Lapua. I hardly ever shoot them anymore.. I do like the looks of the 338 Norma and would lean that way, even tho I’m not a fan of Norma brass.

Easier said than done Once the idea of another gun takes hold of one's brain, there is a pretty good chance that sooner of later it will become a reality.

I imagine that your .338 Lapua is a lot heavier and has a better stock design that your friends .338WM. Does each have muzzle brake?
Anyway, a properly fitted stock helps manage recoil. For example, I have a Ruger M77 Hawkeye African (short barrel, not muzzle brake, express sights) that has a beautiful walnut stock. I didn't want to scratch the stock during the moose season in Alaska (it can rain, snow, etc.), so I replaced it with a McMillan Classic stock the includes a decelerator recoil pad. Both recoil pad plus the stock were fitted to my LOP. This stock is quite good taming recoil. Then you have to consider the weight of each rifle, because the average heavy one out of the box handles recoil a lot better than a light one.

[quote=SU35]There are finesse cartridges that kill with finesse and then there are brutes that kill brutally.

If I am hunting a big mature bull elk, I want a brutal round that will slam him hard.

The 338 does that.
AGREE!

I've used several 338WM, one .340W, 2 338 RUMS. I've owned/shot but not killed anything with a 338 Federal and a wildcat 338/280. For a factory 338, the win Mag is easy choice. Far more of it in stores than the bigger rounds, even the 338 Federal. Handloading changes everything...pick what interests you, load it right, and go slaughter stuff. "In my observations", big, thick skinned, heavy muscled game react noticeably different when shot with 338/35/.375/9.3 calibers. They get that "OMG, I've been shot" look on their face!

Yes, they do.

I shot one bull in the neck-chest area with a 338/250, he was dead before he hit the ground.

Going to load some more loads for the 338WM today or tomorrow.
Loading Norma MRP, RL26, and RL16. Using 210gr Partitions.

160g tipped tripple shocks in the 338 WM are extremely accurate, devastating on what ever you hit.

I'll bet they do! And if one here would know, you would Keith.

I don't know about that. Wish I could have seen the facial expression on the bull elk I've shot with the 338, but couldn't because their noses hit the dirt too fast....

I literally seen the life leave his eyes in my scope.

Yeah that's interesting to witness, but it certainly doesn't take a 338 to accomplish. One of the more dramatic elk kills I've seen was with a 270 and 110 TTSX. Have seen elk run quite a ways with lung shots from bigger rounds. It's all in the bullet placement.

One thing I've noticed over the years is that many hunters who attribute great killing power to any cartridge often aren't particularly analytical about exactly what caused a quick kill. Many times it's what the bullet hit, rather than the cartridge or bullet.

One of the most spectacular elk "drops" I've witnessed was with a .257 Roberts and the 100-grain Barnes TTSX. The elk crumpled right there from an angling-away chest shot--but during the field-dressing I noticed the bullet had cracked the bottom edge of the spinal column between the shoulders. This paralyzed the elk (probably temporarily, since it didn't damage the spinal cord), while the wound channel through both lungs did the final work.

At the opposite extreme, I once shot a forkhorn mule deer buck, walking very slowly at 50 yards, with a 250-grain Nosler Partition from a .338 Winchester Magnum at around 50 yards. The shot angle was very similar to the elk's, but the buck just kept walking, with no other observable reaction. I couldn't immediately follow up the shot, as the deer disappeared behind a small stand of young quaking aspens, but was ready to shoot when it walked from behind them. But as I placed the reticle in the right place, and started the trigger squeeze, the buck eased to the ground, dead.

In both instances the bullet missed breaking any major bone.

Great post. Sounds like something our old friend BobibNH would write.

Well, yeah, of course. Same could be said of a 375.

338's were made to break bones and I like to break animals, especially trophy ones.

Trophy bucks like to place a young buck between them and whatever is hunting them, sometimes only exposing their hindquarters. Not a time to be picky, break 'em.

A LOT of bear hunting guides in AK pack 338's, they aren't packing 270's.

Agree with you. The 250-grain Partition is designed to accomplish that on large game(break bone and muscle plus pass throughs). But a more fragile 250-grain bullet, or even a faster-loaded 250-grain Partition, would cause more damage when shooting deer through the lungs. Load a 250-grain Partition around 2,700 fps (or a tad faster), and it would do a lot of damage to the lungs. I have shot at least one moose that way with a factory Federal HE offering, and it destroyed a great portion of the lungs, dropping the moose pretty fast. Then for the biggest and meanest game at closer ranges, the 250 to 300-grain bullets come into play (lower velocity and expansion, but deeper penetration).

Years ago hunters matched gun and load (bullets) to the game being hunted. One would choose a soft cup-core bullet, or a solid, and play with velocity. But nowadays there are a great number of options for hunters to choose from, starting with relatively soft bullets, and ending with solids, and whole bunch of options in between. A lot of the changes to bullet design (internals and external) relate to BC, materials used, and a wider range of expansion at different velocities.

But the fact that a good shot in the right place kills sooner than a bad shot, still remains the same.

Yes sir, it sure does. And a 338/250 is going to cause more damage than a 270 in the right place.




That's my experience.

How far of a shot you think you'll be looking at Bob? All I'm saying is a 140 partition outta a .260 rem or 7-08 rem is skookum! So that .338 RCM has a magic combo to.... Just sayin... Your the best offhand shooter I've ever seen so whatever you hunt (freehand or not) will be getting smacked where it counts.

Kind of a loaded statement. I’ve shot plenty of light 338 bullets that have penetrated as much or more than most of the 250 grain bullets. Additionally, not sure if you have personally tried any 300 gr bullets but I haven’t found any super penetrators out of them. The Woodleigh makes a big bloody hole but the penetration I am not convinced is anything special.

I’ve always been a big defender of the 338s when talking about cartridges as fast or a bit faster then the 338 Win mag. The 338 Fed or 06 I would rather shoot a 308, 30-06 or a 35 of the same case. People seem to get very passionate about convincing others why the 338 is wrong for them but forget that it is just like every other cartridge/caliber with a whole host of pro’s and con’s. A person would be well armed with a 338 WM, some would say too much so. But the same people scream that you’ll regret not buying a 375 and that that’s the only way to go. Most of my decisions on buying a new caliber/cartridge is based on what I own above and below it and sometimes a guy winds up getting forced and arm twisted into buying a 338 because of what he already owns.

RUM

Holy f'ing mother of wow! Nice!

Nice shooting Bob! I've had those kind of results on rare occasion myself with my 338's. (Haven't been able to find the time to shoot like I used to). The 338 has been one of the easiest rounds I own to load for with the exception of the 375 H&H and 300 H&H's I've owned. I started with the 225's and experimented with a few others- 210's and 250's and always ended up back with the 225's. Can't argue with the results...

Bob

I could be wrong, but a 250-grain .33-caliber bullet has the potential for greater penetration than a similarly designed and lighter one. The heavier one has a greater SD than the lighter one. This can be offset by using a tougher bullet, that is lighter than the heavier one. I use the 225-grain TTSX since it offers plenty of penetration for the hunting I do (moose), but if I were to hunt the largest and meanest game in Alaska, and a closer ranges, the heavy weights would be desired.

I don't plan to hunt anywhere outside of the US and maybe Canada, but for what I read in this and other forums, bigger game hunters in Africa tend to use heavy per caliber bullets. According to what I have read, for big game in Africa using the .375 H&H, the 300 grainers are desired over the 265-270 grainers for the same reasons. The same principle applies for cartridges based on the .30-06 case such as the .35 Whelen, .338-06, and the .338 Sabi:
http://www.sabirifles.co.za/338sabi.htm

If .30/06 with modern mono-metals kills like a .340 Wby,.. then what does a .338win with monos do?

although not kosher. certain PHs have reported impressive results with .338- 200gr monos whilst buffalo culling.

Harry Selby spent several decades rolling all kinds of African game with .416 solids, we are talking a frontal area
significantly smaller than expanded .375 softs... (Swift indicate anything from .490 - .730" for its expanded 300gr)
.416 solids are even significantly smaller than some expanded .224 cal or .257 cal softs, which can both reach .500"+

thus shot placement and penetration and not so much obsession with larger diameter, were the factors that got the job done,
but of course that was before the Internet.

Selby had a lot of respect for .33cal, himself owning a .318WR. ....Selby, Ken Stewart, and Matts, a Norma technical advisor,
were talking about gun stuff on some occasion in Maun, Botswana. Story goes Harry expressed desire for something that could
provide him further range than his .318wr, ..so Ken made up for him a '.318 Selby Magnum' (necked up .300H&H)

James H. Sutherland

... in a letter to Westley Richards he wrote; "In open country, against Elephants and Rhinoceroses where the quarry is difficult
to approach and long shots are often required I find that I can do all that is requisite with the .318 using of course, solid nickel
covered bullets."

Dennis D. Lyell

from his book 'The African Elephant and its Hunters' 1924, ..... ‘if I was going back to hunt in Africa I would buy a couple of
.318 Mauser Action Magazine Rifles, for I believe this is a perfect size as an all round rifle and notwithstanding the critics who
have not always had practical experiences as backing to their opinions.."

WDM Bell

"We now come to what I would take to Africa if I had to go through the whole thing again under the same set of conditions.
I would base my battery on a Winchester .308 Model 70 burning a cartridge loaded with a homogeneous bronze or Monel
metal bullet , of the form as worked out by Kohlbacker. At the same time, I would have a .318 barrel to fit the same stock and
a supply of 250-grain solid conventional lead- filled steel-jacketed bullets, just in case any unforeseen snags arose from the
use of homogeneous bullets in the .308." - Bell, American Rifleman 1954.


"Then coming down the scale we reach the .318 with its four-diameter 250-grain bullet. This is a killer. It holds its course
through almost anything and is superior in this respect to all other bullets I have tried. For oblique shots into large animals
it is quite the best...... I have a .318 weighing seven pounds ten ounces exactly, when empty. The deadliest weapon of
the push bolt type known to me." - Bell, American Rifleman 1954

***

Something also to note is that Lyell and Bell both found that SxS rifles proved to be unreliable, both mechanically in the
sense of internal breakages and that SxS were also easily prone to jamming up when exposed to a variety of contaminants
easily picked up in the conditions they hunted.

They both also very much liked their .303 British sporting rifles with solids , Lyell having a .303 Gibbs and Bell his .303 Metford
among other .303s over time [including single shot, other Enfields and Rigby Mauser .303]...Bell noted that the Lee Enfield
surpassed all other rifles in reliability. ...These two gentlemen also corresponded.

Lyell was also fond of his 7.92x57 Rigby Mauser...which he would carry in knee deep mud & high thick reeds in search
of cape buffalo.

I'm sure I'm the only one who made a mis-calculation when building a custom, right? 8 years ago, I sourced a Defiance mag LA, AICS 2.0, jewell, and a couple of barrels for my first custom high-end switch-barrel LR rifle. 7RM was the choice for the small chambering, I wanted a 338 for the other. Well, the 338RUM was at its height of popularity. Cheap brass, 95% of 338Lapua performance, etc. Now though, it sure seems like the 338RUM is 6' under, but it sure is a performer for me.

After playing with my 338Fed, a PH felt a 250 A-Frame at ~2400 would be a nearly perfect plains game cartridge for the lowveld. Basically matching a .318wr. With nearly all shots inside 200 yds it would work. Very different than what is viewed as effective here, but with his lifetime of experience on his part I won’t question his gut feeling.

I have and really like the 338 Win Mag. Killed elk and grizzly with mine and it did a great job on both. Better than any other good caliber? Probably not, but very effective. I think if I was to get another it would be the 338 Federal. It just interests me and I can see it being a great rifle for elk/moose in griz country. The man that guided me on my Grizzly in Alaska also guides for Brown bear on Kodiak and the peninsula and he recommends a 338 Win Mag to his clients. He said it is big enough with 225's and clients tend to put the bullet where it belongs better than with the bigger calibers. I would love to own a Pre'64 M70 in 338 someday. I plan to chase moose in the next few years in the Yukon or Alaska and I will most likely be packing my current 338 Win Mag.

I am not a fan of the 338 Win and bigger cased 33’s. That said I will pass the following on:

I met a fellow who was picked as the SCI African outfitter of the year about 10+ years ago. He preferred that his US buffalo clients use a 338 Win with 250 Partitions. He added that he thought his clients had better results than if they were using a 375. Why? Much better shot placement. He carried a Dakota 416 Rigby as his backup and said he used it least when his clients used the 338/250 combo.

So there you go.

Everything is relative.

Selby and his peers spoke of clients who were hopeless with their English .470 double rifles, noting that when clients opted
for .375, PHs had significantly less occasions requiring them to conduct dangerous follow ups

of course .375 isn't for everyone either as RinB points out....nor is .338 for everyone...Gail Selby at 14, took her bull using
Bells 7x57.....then according to Harry Selby, R.Ruark despite having an array of DG calibers ( .375, .450, .470) , actually did
his best shooting with a somewhat far more humble .30/06.

Mark Selby on holidays from school, shot his cape buffalo with a rem 721 .30/06, a rifle that was used on numerous safaris
over decades to take wide range of plains game, lions and leopards.

....>>

" When Ker, Downey & Selby Safaris embarked upon building a tourist lodge, I employed quite a large number of workmen for the job.
The Government generously agreed to grant permission for a “pot license,” allowing a limited number of animals, even including buffalo,
to be taken monthly in order to feed the workforce. The Model 721 was the rifle used to do this job." - Harry Selby.


Ernest Hemingway; ..although known for his big boomer .577 nitro WR, did use his G&H Springfield .30-06 to successfully despatch
lion, cape buffalo and rhino.

I own a .338 RUM,as to why,cause I wanted one.

I like my 338/06AI, its a Win 70 Classic Action with a Douglas barrel in a McMillan Hunter stock.

Truth be told now that Hornady has the 225gr 308 ELD M I feel like I should have build a 06 or win mag instead. Oh well, its still a lot of ass with manageable recoil.

Even the plain-old .338-06 is a great cartridge. While the .338WM is my favorite of all in Alaska, a .338-06 is not bad at all. The first will shoot farther, but with the later I can always close the distance and accomplish the same.

People don't have to be intimated by a full force .338win, the option is there to load is mildly with faster and lower charge pwdr in amounts
that some put in their .30-06 or .338/06. .. one also has the option to load something like 300 Woodleigh which expands larger than some
.375 cal softs.
.. It allows one to experience or experiment with what its like to kill with '.375 type weight and frontal area' without the need to buy a .375

I am not at all surprised by that statement.

Shot a 338 Ruger Tang for years loved it. Had Melvin build me a NULA 300 win mag and at my age the lighter rifle is so nice to haul around the old 338 is not getting much use these days.
I got to say that Melvin has away of taking the bite out of a light weight rifles i might have gone for the 338 if i would have know it was going to be so easy on the shoulder.

A few years back I was going to build a .338-375 Ruger wildcat. Ended up assembling a standard .338WM rifle from Ruger factory parts, including a barrel I got from Bear Paw Jack that he had received from a previous owner. The original owner had the barrel fluted and, I believe, shortened to 22". Skeleton/boat-paddle stock, stainless barrel and action.

Could have taken this shot with my .300WM, 7mm RM or others, but the .338WM was what I had with me. 487 yards, my longest ever.


Hard to shoot that sucker well though, as the three-shot, 100-yard target below clearly shows: