I am in the market for a slightly more powerful 224 diameter rifle than my 24 inch 222 and my 18 inch a.r.15. I could have a Remington 700 re-barreled into a 9 twist 222 magnum or 223 so I could shoot hogs with it or I could just get one of the 8 twist 22 250 rifles that are available. Any input? I would like a spotter weight gun for hunting with however I want to be able to target practice with any of the cheaper bullet weights from 50 to 65 grains that I sometimes run into.

Why not a fast twist 223, I have 223's in 8 and 10 twist both shoot equally well. Pluses for the 223 - low recoil, easier to spot hits, longer barrel life, lots of inexpensive ammo if one does not reload.

drover

223 or 223AI. Same bolt face as your 222, and easier to find quality brass.

22-204, slick feeding, slightly more capacity than the 223AI, I've been shooting one for 10 yrs and it and my 222 Rem are my favorite pelt hunting rifles.

erich, isn't the 22-204 basically the 222 mag?
What are the differences?

If you want something cheap to plink with the .223 isn't going to be outdone.

And it will kill anything that needs killing just fine.

Fast twist 223 or 223AI.....the ability to up the bullet weight with the faster twist changes things. I did all of mine 1/8 but if I was doing it now I'd make sure I got it twisted fast enough for the 88's in all conditions. The AI adds a little (very little) but is nice if you shoot a lot (reload) and don't like to trim brass. The availability of .223 Rem components can't be touched, barrel life is forever, easy to feed, easy on the wallet, easy on the ears, hard on game. The TSX/TTSX bullets really make it dig.

Nothing wrong with the fast twist 22/250's or the 22 Creed if you really want to up the speed but it's a trade off on losing a lot of the pro's related to the .223/.223AI.

Yep....get an 8 twist .223 and rock on....I like the .223AI but see no practical difference in performance on game.

8 twist tikka...frinstance...

223s are neat, 223 Ackleys are neater...but after having one, I would be hard pressed not to have a hot rod, fast twist .22, something along the lines of a 22-250 or faster.

Personally, I think the fast twist 22-250 is impossible to beat for most any application.

But the .223 is more popular'er and factory ammo prices reflect that.

The 22-204 is a 222 Rem Mag Improved, 30 degree shoulder, longer body and slightly straightened body.

If you want to build even longer on a small boltface you can use 5.6x50 Mag brass, it is 3mm longer than the 222 Rem Mag. I shoot a combo gun using the Rimmed version of the 5.6x50 Mag. You do start to run into mag length problems.

If your looking at a going with a small boltfaced gun don't overlook the 22 Valkyrie

Or if a mini-action, 527, mini-Howa, mini-mauser the 22 lbc (22-6.5 Grendle) doner actions can be found with a 7.62x39 boltface.

If a standard boltface, why limit yourself to the 22-250 if you want to go fast with heavies, there is the 22-243, 22 Creed, 224 TTH and a plethora of others

And then there is the 22 WSSM

I have both a 1/8 twist .223AI and a .22-250. While, the .223AI can't compete with the .22-250, it'll get close enough that makes the .22-250 irrelevant for me. For a 75 gr bullet, you're burning ~7 gr less powder in the .223AI and only losing ~200-300 fps. However, the .223AI is still slinging that 75 gr slug around 3K fps. You also don't have the muzzle blast out of the .223AI. That's my $.02.


Forgot to mention; The .223AI is a no trim affair which is attractive and brass is readily available.

I have a 223 AI and a 22 Creedmoor....there really isn't a comparison. I am shooting a 70gr bullet a little faster than a 50 from the 223AI..and thats a big deal.

I am a fan of the 222 Remington Magnum. The 22-204 is a joke, there isn't a critter you could shoot that would even know the difference.

For the sake of efficiency, consider the 223 or 22-250 and what other applications that gun would have. If you won't be shooting bigger game, you won't need a 22-250, as mentioned, the 223 is still king of the small bores...(other than the 222 Mag of course)

Of course you could always go with the little known 22 powerhouse in a 224 Weatherby Magnum...

After playing around with a couple fast twist Big 22's, I came to the conclusion that if I'm stepping up over the 223, then a 6mm of some sort makes the most sense.

I agree with you that there isn't MUCH difference about the same as a 223 vs 223AI but when I built it finding 222 Rem Mag brass was near impossible to find and it didn't need custom dies , I had already built a 25-204(257 Kimber clone) and a 6mm-204(6x47 Improved) with readily available brass.

How so? I have both fast .22s and fast 6mms....and the 6s get left at home nearly every time.

that is a real nice looking rifle!

Not to argue but I have found the opposite to be true.

I'll take the .224's every time.

But, in fairness, I have not used the 6x45 or Creedmoor sized .243's so it may just be my lack of exposure.

Weight for weight, the .22s have every advantage over the 6s. The only caveat might be in mag restricted situations, but even that might be a stretch.

That's been my experience too but bullets like the 88 grain Hornady might change that.

A 1-8 243 or 6 Creed is a hell of a tool.

I have a pretty slick 8 twist 243 Ackley that is a for sure shooter.

I like the .22 Creedmoor much, much more.

22-250!!

A 22 Creedmoor may be my next build. For practicality probably impossible to beat the 223. If a 223 I would probably AI just to be impractical.

That was pretty much my thought....223AI is simply too easy not to do it.

22br and 88's is a ton of fun.

Shaen has a reamer.

With a .378" Donor in the mitts,223AI all the way. I have (13) of 'em and ain't done.(grin) Tough to beat a 75 kissing in the neighborhood of 2.450" COAL,in an 8" or greater RPM. 88's don't suck there and their .545BC is for fhuqking real.



In .473",22-250 SALAMI would be my LAST choice. Don't have any in greater than 7" RPM(Mike Rock). 700 based,A5,lotsa inclination,lotsa erector travel and it's a hammer with 75 ELD's,but I'd wayyyyyyyyy rather shoot 223AI. While '250 SALAMI capacity is greater than 223AI,the velocity difference ain't enough to walk away from 223 logistics,mag capacities and the like.

Bottom left. 270 with 105's to it's right(8" Brux),then Six Twat-Six with 105's(8" Brux),243AI with 105's(8" PN),HEAVY 270 with 105's(7" Bart'),LFB 6-284 with 105's(8" Brux),6BR(no-turn) with 105's (8" Bart'),7-08 OEM spout,1717D HB OEM spout,77/22 Hummer with LW Clark spout...top Krunchenticker 243Win SALAMI 7" 5R,Mike Rock 7" 223AI lastly.



I fhuqking HATE Krieger so had Greg send one to Shaen,for a 22BR build,but the most RPM on the shelf was 8". No-turn,.090" freebore,lotsa Primal/AICS mags in hand and DBM/Stocks for same,but just might go BDL in Marty steel M4 bottom. 20.3" because I like round numbers and a 75 ELD focus,because I don't think 8" RPM at that velocity threshold,will make me giddy. 10x MQ a given,still factoring the inclination route with a fresh shipment of Glen rings and Reupold PRW 2's arriving this afternoon. I like Marty's 45MOA rails. Decisions,decisions.

I'd go 22-250AI over SALAMI and have many times. 7" fhuqking Krieger.



Nice to gun Alpha 22 Kreedmire Virgins in same,as you are all but there. The forming transition from pressing the trigger upon same,being rather modest. Hint.



Better yet,is to simply cut to the fhuqking chase and go 22 Speedmire. I'd NEVER build another '250 SALAMI or Aye-Eye. 88's at 3200fps+,assuredly do not suck and 8" will happily do it there,in all atmospheres(was doing more of same earlier today). That BC,at that speed,with 108 MOA remaining on a 10x MO/MO do not suck.




I've (3) Seex Kreedmires,though none faster than 7" nor slower than 8". It's a better mechanical design,than the 243 or 243AI and I've lots of them all. Hint.

The Deuce,Deuce Mag and 22-204 are all Dog Schit,compared to the 223/223AI,in logistics alone. Hint.

The 224Wby an even bigger piece of schit yet and yes...I fhuqking suffer one in a fhuqking Varmintmaster too. Should spin a 21" contour duped 7" no-turn 22BR spout on it and live a little...but it's like Peterson brass,in that it's a GOOD fhuqking laugh,when compared to everything else in the larder. Hint. Laffin'.

The Speedmire/88 melding,is a BAD Bitch for a Niche Tool.

High RPM 223/223AI all the way,for Utility.

You've been led to water.

Thank me later.

Just sayin'.

I make the jump from 223 to 6mm because of practicality. If a guy want "ultimate performance", then a Big 22 is a great choice. But....ballistic performance is only one part of the equation. Barrel life, increased hunting bullet availability, potential for factory rifles and ammo with the 6mm Creedmoor or 243 (which also means better resale), and more consistent bullet performance are all reasons I skip the Big fast twist 22s.

If looking for a colony varmint rifle, the Big 22s are a poor choice. If the quarry is mostly large varmints with some big game thrown in, and especially if a guy isn't overly worried about barrel life, then a Big 22 is a great choice. If the intended rifle use includes a lot of rounds sent downrange at targets, as well as big game hunting, I think a 6 is a better, more versatile choice.

Maybe just twist a 222 faster? The animals certainly won't notice the 222 case.
The reality is that going from a 222 to about anything it spawned is "slight", and doesn't get appreciable until you get to 250 sized hull capacity. If you really want more power/speed, all else being equal, going from a 222 to a 223 is closer to nothing (100fps at like pressure) than when going from 223 to the 250 case in ANY form. Those are just hard mathematical realities.
If decent 222 cases are that hard to find (which they aren't), 5.56 brass is easily snugged and trimmed into 222 cases.

The 22 Nosler sucks with tipped bullets (just like the 223/223AI) in an AR, but would be a little quicker than anything 222 based in a 700 and would not require changing your bolt. I would throat it beyond SAAMI specs for intended bullets and change the mag over to the 308 configuration. You'd obviously be stuck with one case maker.

Beyond that, the 250 hull is your best bet for any real gain.

if I wanted to load a 22 250 to say 3000-3300 with an 8 twist, a 22 inch barrel, and a 62 grain bullet would the cartridge do it with good accuracy?

YES! for danged sure. That isn't even leaning on it too much at 3300...

Agree.

Stick/Boxer notwithstanding, I like my 8 twist .22-204. It shoots 75 gr. SSII's very accurately at near 3K fps in a very light package without fire forming.

My 8 twist .22-250 does well with 75 and 80 gr. bullets.

DF

After shooting my 22-250's and 223's and then having a 223AI built, I wouldn't waste my time on anything besides the 223AI. Speeds close to the 22-250, less recoil, cheap and readily available loading components, and accuracy to match any other rifle I own. Hard not to like that and the effect on critters will make you smile..... and you can shoot 223 with superb accuracy in it in a pinch...

Bob

I'd be concerned about pressure if I was getting near .22-250 velocity from a .223AI.

Those, from what I've read, don't show pressure that easily. So, you may be churning out more than you think.

DF

I'm getting pushing a 50gr at at 3550 from an 18" barreled 223AI, and brass is just fine. There is speed there... But it sure ain't no 22-250 or 22 Creedmoor

I'm pushing the 40 gr BT's in my 223 AI right around 3900 with a 26" VSSF barrel. My 22-250 is at 4180 - same bullets 40 G BT's as both have the original 12 twist remington barrels on them and don't like anything heavier. However, accuracy is stellar in both rifles. Never had any problem with brass fire forming or with sized brass and neck sizing with the AI case is easy as can be...

Bob

I like the AI for what it is...simple and easy. My early CZ Varminter is saddled with a 12 twist tube as well. Luckily it will shoot 50s. It will eventually get a more useful barrel on it....but after discovering the 22 Creedmoor, I dont know that it will even remain a .22 bore. I have to determine if I have a use for a slower .22.

I dont have a single use for a 40gr bullet at any speed, so that part is wholly irrelevant for me, and many others. When I can push an 70gr bullet at the same or better speeds than a 223AI pushes 50s, its a win every time.

That's not the case for a whole bunch of us, especially when shooting high volume, such as in a prairie dog town. The extra recoil and noise generated are not only wasted, but are actually a detriment. Not to mention reduced barrel life. 40s from a 223/AI case are superb for such use. They are also great from a Hornet.

Like I mentioned earlier, the Big 22s are fine for specialized use, but I straight up don't want one on a prairie dog town, and there are better choices for really serious big game hunting. They shine for low volume, large varmint use.

Also, that 3550 fps 50 grain load is showing around 75k on Quickoad, depending on your exact parameters.

Cant argue that everyone's needs are different....mine tend to gravitate toward coyotes and cats, with some pigs thrown in. This barrel will probably see 1500rd if I am lucky, maybe less. For me, thats simply a cost of doing buisness, and the capabilities are easily worth it. I have never had the privilege of prairie dogs, seems like a nice way to spend an afternoon.

As for the pressure, may very well be. All I know is it works, shoot lights out, and I have brass on its 5th load with no signs of concern.

Easily.

I shot two hogs a few years ago with a 222 Rem. Mag. The load used 27.5 grs. RL-15 and the 62 TSX clocking a smidge over 3,300 in a 24" barrel.

That's pretty much the real estate limit. The 22 Nosler throated out and leaned on in a bolt gun might get 3,400, but Nosler brass is softish. 75's crammed in the AR is lucky to see 3,100 without brass decay.

The 22-250 hull has a lot more room for improvement, even without leaning on the powder handle.

I agree, that hull in a hot dog town is going to be limited duty, but it sounds like pigs you are after. Again, all else equal, the 223 hull is 100-150 fps. over a 222 (15% capacity increase). Getting a 222 with a 60 grainer to 3,000-3,100 isn't real tricky, since its SAAMI data is soft to begin with.

Oh yeah, for those purposes, a 22 Creedmoor would be perfect! 1500 rounds worth of pigs, coyotes, and cats sounds like a lot of fun.

It has been so far...I am about 400rd deep into it right now, and have enjoyed this thing more than anyone has a right to.

I built a a 220 swift 1-12 twist 26 inch barrel s.s. to shoot 60 grain Nosler partitions for coyote hunting reason for this type of set-up rifle will shoot fast about 3600 fps this 60 gr. partition bullet hides wont be too damage ,so we can sell the hides.