I have a dilemma... when do you say the heck with it and just stay with a 20 gauge?

I have a pair of Franchi affinities in 12 & 20 set up with Burris FF3's because they have great triggers and I drank the red dot Kool-Aid. The 20 was bought when I had a shoulder injury and I have yet to take a bird with it.

Using TSS to get a dense pattern isn't a problem for me because hunting federal land requires non-toxic shot. The upgrade to TSS is the cost of a drink at a bar to me...

I figured the 6 pound 20 would become my old age gun, but I'm thinking it may become my primary now. I have a pile of 12 gauge heavishot to use up though.

Igniting those 2 oz 12 gauge loads can be brutal.

Take the plunge and convert?
Any performance reasons not to?

Went through this a number of years ago. Only time the 12 goes now are when I’m taking a friend who doesn’t have a turkey gun( I use it as the backup). Every once in a while I carry it for nostalgia lol

I say convert and don’t look back!

Single shot NEF 20 ga. Federal Flite control #6 or #7--- 40 yds.+ if needed.. no thought of going back to 12 ga.----
--- running and gunning = about 19 paces average kill shot.

Recoil with tss 1 5/8 oz and up will be considerable as well. That being said, there are some good recipes out there for 1 1/8 oz and up. My 11 year old daughter shoots 1 3/8 oz out of a 20 affinity. Plenty of range and density still for 40 yard shots or more. Buy 9’s and don’t look back. Fox trot is a good company to buy from.

I too only carry the 12 for nostalgia purposes

Switched to a 20 this year. Tired of carrying the big 12ga shooting 3 1/2” shells. I think fully loaded my 12 weighs 13#. My 20 weighs 6#. My boys kill birds every year using the 20 with Hevi-Shot Blend.

I pretty much use a 20 exclusively these days, but do carry my first real turkey shotgun sometimes for the sake of nostalgia......a Winchester 1300 Turkey special. It's a 3 inch 12 gauge, and will still pattern better than any shotgun I've ever shot. I use a 20 because of the lighter weight guns and less recoil. However, if something happened and I had to kill a turkey........or else, I'd probably choose the 12.

I’ve only used a 20 for 6-7 years now.

Have a 20ga O/U on layaway. Not sure if I’m going to get it out for this season or not, because I also have a .410 to try out. Already have a bunch of TSS for both. Reviews say the .410 is good to 35-40 yards, the 20 to 50. Both are a pound or more lighter than my 12.

Ive got an SBE2 12ga and an M2 20ga set up identically. I set up the M2 for my son a few years ago. Both have been coated/dipped with Burris FF3s mounted.

I planned to switch to the 20 full time this year but have decided instead to use up the Federal 12ga turkey shells I have. When they are gone I may sell the SBE2

The M2 20 with red dot is about a perfect turkey gun. That said, I’ve got an urge to see if a CZ Bobwhite All Terrain S/S 20ga could work. May give it a try next time I have some down time but concerned about the barrel hitting to the same POI or close enough

If your recoil sensitive and want a real challenge go to a 410ga and some TSS, I know a good turkey hunter who went to this combo a few years back because of shoulder surgery and he loves it....Hb

Your 12ga turkey shotgun weighs 13+ pounds?...all I can say to that is Wow!!....Hb

Instead of buying a new gun----Why not try 2 3/4" shells. You could even go to 1 1/4 oz pheasant loads.

I've been using my Remington 870 that can only shoot 2 3/4" shells. They work just fine.

I bought a new M2 20 gauge with a 24 in barrel to hunt with this spring, Sumtoy.562 and tss 9 shot .

What model 20 gauge OU?

I have the guns now, but I could have shot lighter 12 loads instead of buying the 20 gauge.

Impulsive gun buying got me when I made up a reason... The 20 gauge franchi was a light grouse gun for the wife or turkey gun for me. It will probably stay a turkey gun now the red dot is installed and my wife doesn't come grouse hunting much. She can use my SXS 20.

True enough. But switching 12 gauge loads doesn't lessen the weight or bulk of the actual gun itself. A good 20 gauge will be a pound lighter and enough smaller physically to be appreciated by run and gun hill top hunters at days end.

The poi can be adjusted by filing chokes.

I have a 410 sxs that I have been setting up. I have 2 Indian Creek chokes in it. It shoots great. I’m currently at the stage where I want to install a middle bead and a sling. May not get a chance to hunt it this year.

CZ Redhead Premier All Terrain. Oogly as a toad, but good features for a turkey gun: Cerakote, swivel studs, knurled tubes, SEs, mechanical trigger. Magnets hold the shells if you tilt the barrels up. 6.9lbs with28” barrels. I like being able to load and unload quietly too.

BTW, I just bought an Affinity 3 Compact for my grandson’s birthday.

I read a review of the 12 gauge version of this by Ron Spomer in American hunter and thought it would be sweet for turkey hunting in 20 gauge... I didn't know they made a 20 gauge version and I'll research it... if I need an excuse for another shotgun.

I like the two choke selection concept. Actually think a two trigger gun would be best.

FYI - there's a turkey hunter on you tube named Dave Owens that runs the same affinity. You have chosen wisely.

Been watching Owens a lot lately. Was glad to hear from my son that the Franchi is drilled and tapped, a big bonus.

My CZ is the steel-framed one. Spomer did a lightweight, at least on YouTube. I figured the extra weight would be good for the heavy loads, plus the Redhead has selective ejectors instead of extractors. Since the triggers are mechanical and the selector is on the safety, I can do a single trigger. Doubles are rare on O/Us here IME anyway.

Nothing like a premium, cheap cigar, right?

I know! Four 3 1/2” shells, scope and saddle scope mount on an 870 Super Mag and she is a heavy one.

Round and round and round.

When I was younger turkeys were just birds that were shot
with squirrel or pheasant ammo.

Then, in the eighties they became tough. 3" magnum required.
90's, 3 1/2".

Now, let's sell some new chit, suckers will chase "The newest/bestest".

No 20 gauge load will out do a 12 load. Apple's to apples. Ever.

Look at the weights on true field auto's, my Beretta 390 is as
light as many 20's.

For the guy who "don't need no 12, I'm man enough to kill with a 20",
1 1/4oz 12gauge loads will dump them quick.

Or, 1/18 2 3/4 loads from a 20.

Thing is, don't be like a gobbler.
Don't fall for the sweet marketing, and get your wallet shot.

All true, more or less. But there’s nothing wrong with trying something different, especially if it might be a bit better. The new spendy shells definitely pattern better than older stuff, but whether that matters or not depends on the shots you get, or take. The expense is miniscule when the number of opportunities most get are factored in.

I’m switching to light break-actions because the 12 I have is long and heavy. The 20ga O/U will get used for other stuff as well with light loads that kick less and are easier to carry. The break actions are shorter for any barrel length, and quieter and easier to load and unload.

At some point I’m going to dream up a “cleverly concocted rifle load”, as Jim Carmichael called it as well, perfectly legal here, for shooting them at the same ranges as with shotguns, just because I can. Might be a CF or a ML, or even a pistol.

It’s all good.

+1
A 3" 20 GA is roughly equivalent to 2 3/4 12 GA, give or take. My son's Yute gun was a 3" 20 GA, and I can honestly say better than 80% of my shots on turkey have been ones that would have been a chip shot for my original turkey gun, my Dad's Model 12 GA Trap. I shoot lead throughout-- going on 40 years. I'd say if you want to lighten the load, go to a #4 or #6 pheasant load and be done with it.

I like Dave Owens style... something to play in the back ground while I'm working or doing projects... . I may start smoking premium cheap cigars too.

The poi can be adjusted by filing chokes

I have a 410 sxs that I have been setting up. I have 2 Indian Creek chokes in it. It shoots great. I’m currently at the stage where I want to install a middle bead and a sling. May not get a chance to hunt it this year.[/quote]


I would love to know how to tweek POI of my patterns. Could you please elaborate on that.

I would love to know how to tweek POI of my patterns. Could you please elaborate on that.[/quote]

https://www.gobblernation.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=14385

Thanks for the info. I have a 20ga tube coming back tomorrow that I sent out to be threaded to accept TruChokes. It's nice to know that if it doesn't pattern to POA, I can try to remedy the situation myself. And if I screw it up, it only costs me a $20 bill for a replacement choke tube. I'm assuming I'll need to make some witness marks so I can index back when I swap tubes in and out. Thanks again.

Unless TSS is outlawed, there’s zero reason to waste all the extra TSS pellets by shooting a 12ga. Arguments over buying a new gun ( just for turkeys), or having some stash of 12ga turkey loads you’re loathe to sit on for HD or coyotes or such aside.....why wouldn’t you have a 20 (or even 28 or 410, if it fit your hunting) shooting tss, in lieu of a 12? Any of my 12s will work on turkeys, if needed. Several are better adapted to turkey hunting than others. My main, ‘turkey specific’ guns, that get hunted over the last 7-8 years are 20s, and I doubt that changes anytime soon. Makes no sense to shoot a 12...unless I suddenly have to be miserly on shell cost or can only have one shotgun.

I’ve gone round and round and shot them with everything from 2 3/4 20g and 16g all the way up to 3 1/2 12 and even one with a 10 gauge. By far my favorite is 2 3/4” 12 gauge and I’m setting my kids up with a soft shooting Remington 1100 with just that shell this year. No fancy turkey loads, #6 heavy field. These days I mostly hunt with whichever shotgun I find in my safe that needs to go for a walk with me!

Only reason for 12ga is if shooting them up close with dove loads. If you're buying turkey shells and chokes, 20ga is a big gun.

I shoot my first of the year with the big 20 and carry a 410 the rest of the season unless traveling OOS. Break actions only with me. Break it down before crossing barriers and use the lever to close it quietly.

I wouldn't fool with heavy loads or hard shot from a sxs. Get an o/u and zero your sight for the top barrel on the head. Bottom barrel will center on neck when dot is on the head. No filing or custom choke rigamarole. Helps keep shot out of the breast and keep shot on the head with the second shot on a missed runner. Not that I've ever done that. 😁.

One of the other threads on this turned into the usual schittstorm, possibly because those who’ve killed turkeys as targets of opportunity while hunting other stuff, or practice the Pennsylvania scatter and call method in the fall don’t see the utility of specialized ammo for head-shooting gobblers- maybe. I’ve always just used whatever gun I had and heavy loads of medium-sized shot, but the new stuff is pretty compelling for head-shots, so I’m all in this season. Scoff if you must.

Either a 12 or 20, a good load of #4s #5s or #6s in a full or extra full choke will work fine.

If you find a gun you really like im either gauge grab iit up.


You can tell what my favorite gauge is by my username but with the advent of Winchesters Longbeard it is hard for my 10 to keep up w lead shot.

I see no need for the TSS, I can kill turkeys to 50 real easy and if it stretches to more than that I'll let him walk and come back to play another day.

The TSS is handy for smaller gauges but if I want to play that game I will just work him to within 30 yards and make it real fun.

Those loads will kill more turkeys than I want to breast out.

I used to think I needed the tightest pattern with the heaviest load out there but then I started noticing I killed a schittload of birds under 30 yards and a field load of about any type will work just fine.

BTW, I still shoot those heavy loads as I am sitting on about 20 boxes of them!!

Well... I pulled out my 2 12 gauges and 20 last night and old patterns targets...
You can really tell the difference picking up the heavy 870 @ 7.5 pounds, the the 7 pound franchi 12, down to the 6 pound franchi 20...

And the 40 yard #9 TSS targets are incredible.

The decision has been made other than I'm sitting on a pile of 12 gauge hevishot and federal heavyweight shells. Maybe a couple more 12 gauge seasons still.

I was watching The Hunting Public last night and Greg was displaying his turkey stuff. His gun is a 3.5” Benelli that he shoots Winchester 5s in. He said it’s not bad, but the in the video it really rocks him!

JB’s article in the current Handloader is on hard shot. He quotes the price of tungsten shot, and that explains the cost of the shells. I probably have a lifetime supply in 20 and .410, unless my luck takes a remarkable turn for the better. In a world where 9mm is a buck or more a pop, and slugs $4, $5-$8 ain’t so bad for one or two pokes a season at a gobbler.

John’s article is well-worth reading, btw.

I remember I was patterning my 2 oz hevishot with the deer shack kids and they watched me shoot and couldn't believe how much the loads rolled me back. No one volunteered to try them.

So.. now that I committed to the 20 gauge, I bought the last 4 boxes of fed TSS 3 inch because it was priced unusually low and federal is running a $5 per box rebate. I was an expensive hit, but you can't find much ammunition anywhere.

Now to hide the credit card charge from the wife...

My walking shotgun is a youth model 870 20ga which is fed 3" #6 Tungsten. My field shotgun is an old 1300 Winchester with Red Dot and Nitros. Both work great for intended use. Other than finding a good load for your choke, the rest of the worry's are overthinking the issue from the perspective of my 40+years of hunting!

Overthinking is what we do here. Right now, a lot of us have more time to do it.

Same principal applies to picking loads for whitetails.

I was going to use a 20 last year on turkeys but ended up filling all my tags with traditional archery equipment.

So this year I am going to use the 20, and with TSS loads I will have no issues out to 40 yards. If I cannot call one to 40 yards, I do not deserve to fill my tag.

The main reason I am going to a 20 is ease of carry. I have used 3.5's in my Browning Cynergy and Benelli SBE, but they are heavier to carry. I have not needed the 70 plus yard range of the 3.5's for many years.

Depends, how good a turkey hunter / caller are you? Get them inside of 30 yards and anything works. I've killed more with a 20 ga. 870 and 2/3 inch one ounce loads of 7 1/2 than anything. These days all I use is a 20 gauge flintlock with cylinder bore.

I have killed a lot of birds with a 12 ga, but now use a 20 and have killed just about as many. The only reason I have not killed as many with a 20 is I have not hunted with it as long. If you don't take crazy shots and let the bird work in, either will do a fine job.

tag

20

Sorry, but I don't agree that a 3.5", 12 gauge is a "70 plus" yard range shell to kill a turkey consistantly. A 10 gauge, 3.5" might be a 70 yard range shell, (consistantly) but not a 12 gauge. NO WAY !!!!

If I neededto kill turkeys at 70 yards, I’d just carry a small rifle of some sort. That’s not the game I want to play, so it’s a shotgun, or maybe a crossbow. 40 or 50 yards of reach is plenty.

These days a properly set up 20ga with 2-3/4” TSS load will kill at 70yds with 100% consistency. Not advocating that shot, just stating the fact that it’s possible. It’s pretty amazing stuff. I haven’t carried a 12 in a really long time. I will carry some 12s with light loads this year just for the heck of it, but 20s will be used mostly.

The TSS has made the 60+ yard turkey killing pattern perfectly possible.


Winchester Longbeards in a proper choked 3" 12 gauge will give my 10 gauge a run for it's money and in the right gun will outshoot my 10, easily.

I don't understand the draw to longer range turkey hunting, takes most if not all of the fun out of it.

The older I get and the more turkeys I kill the less "long range" turkey shooting I do. Give me a bird at 20-30 yards and I am content.

If you can't kill a turkey at 40 yards with a dose of #4s, 5s or 6s with a regular full choke something is bad wrong. Even a 20 gauge with a 3" load of copper plated #6s is 40 yard gun.

Hunt the timber I hunt and you can't even see a 40 yard bird.

I do understand that the TSS pattern is still tight @ 70 yards, but what about ft lbs of energy ? Does the 20 gauge TSS load have enough energy to penetrate a gobbler for a lethal kill ?

Whether is comes from a 10, 12, 20 or 410 gauge a pellet has the same amount of energy if started at the same velocity.


Pellets from a load of 9 TSS at 1200fps have the same penetration no matter the gauge. Bigger payloads have more pellets and a denser pattern that holds longer.

OK, I stand corrected.

Now, is it fair to say that a 12 gauge shooting regular lead turkey loads, (not TSS) won't be effective at 70 yards consistantly ? Meaning, shooting lead turkey loads, the effective killing range will be mainly 40 yards & closer.

A lead #6 doesn’t know what gauge it was fired from. Same theory applies to lead, hevi, tss. A load of lead 6’s carries the same per pellet energy no matter the gauge but more pellets create a denser pattern which holds longer which makes it more effective.


A #4 lead may have the energy to kill a bird at 70yds from a 10, 12, 20 or 410. The chances of getting a lead 4 where it needs to go at that range from any gauge is pretty much luck.


50yds is my limit no matter what and I’d rather have them at 25yds. Typically you run out of pattern density before you run out of pellet energy, especially with lead.

I patterned my 12 and my sons 20 today. The 20 patterned almost as well with significantly less recoil...

So what load were you using in both rounds?

In general a 12 will pattern a little better than a 20 with the same loads, which is a general rule with ANY kind of shot--though the difference is less with harder shot.

My wife and I have killed a pile of turkeys with both gauges using 1-1/4 ounces of #6 and #5 shot (both lead and Bismuth) out to 40+ yards with no problems.

I set up my Winchester sx3 20ga 26inch barrel with a carlson choke this past spring and shot Apex Ninja TSS at 20yds,30,40, and 50 yds.

I have confidence in this setup and think it would be effective past 50 yds but I don't like to shoot that far, I prefer 30-35 yds.

I switched from the 12 to 20 decades ago. I found that a load of copper plated buffered 6 shot from a 20 gauge killed toms just as dead as a 12 when I held to a 40 yard shot. The lighter weight and handiness of the smaller frame of the 20 was the selling point for me. I will admit that for the last 15 years I have used a Model 12 Winchester in 16 gauge more often that the 20.

You've been reading too many turkey ammo ads.

No, he's very much correct. I've been loading TSS for a decade. That's also the case with Reloader7RM.

Yes, TSS #9s launched at 1100fps will give adequate penetration to a bit over 70yd.

I’ve used a 20ga before it was cool. I took a shot at what I thought was 40’ish yards. I picked up the bird and poked back to the blind. I ranged it, 49 yards. Dead bird. Shot them from 7 to 49 yards with it. I love it.