...[bleep].

They never fit right. Not matter how I trim them. The stick to my tongue and move out of position. The turn clockwise in my mouth.

I've tried for years. I have 6 sitting on my desk and every year I try get competent. I can make a few yelps and clucks before the call turns in my mouth and I have to use my fingers to reposition it. Nothing saounds quite right. And if I get a decent sounding call, I only get two of three before the call is so out position I can't reposition without my fingers.

I can't be the only one. I just can't.

Anyone else?

Thankfully, no. But it took a while to master them. My family, and dogs, were more than patient with me. I didn't go anywhere without one in my mouth, constantly working it, moving it, playing with it.

I am determined to master it, eventually. I always have some on hand. I can get soft yelps and clucks. I can't get out many calls with much volume before the position gets screwed up. I can't get a purr out to save my life. I can get a reasonably competent kee kee out, but once I transition to the yelp, the call turns after a yelp or two.

I was watching a video last night of some guy who does a purr using his uvula. Da hell? The only time I can get my uvula to start moving is when I'm gargling. Who has that much control over their uvula?

I think my cynicism is working against me. Every time I put a call in my mouth, I think there is no way this is going to work.

Whose calls? I like the H.S. STRUT calls. The flat ones, no plastic hump in them, just cloth and rubber with the metal bar in them.

I've tried many makes. Right now I have several Primos and Quaker Boy calls on hand. I have been practicing with a Primos mouth yelper for a week or so now. If I can keep it positioned, the sounds aren't dreadful. The problem is they all tend to rotate in my mouth.

There's nothing wrong with the calls, obviously. There is something I've learned that is causing them to rotate and I can't fiugure out what it is.

Call has to "seal" to the top of your mouth, don't use your tongue, air has to pass between the call and your tongue to produce noise. Maybe your tongue is pushing it around?

If you're past the gagging stage...

I'm past the gagging stage. I can seal it againt the roof of my mouth. I'm doing something when blowing that is turning it.

Years ago, I gave it a try and did not care for it. Back to my antique box call and guess what? More fun and pay more attention to what the birds are doing.
I finally evolved far enough to realize that hunting turkey can be fun and easy IF I am on a turkey rich property! My last deer lease was such a property and getting a gobbler in deer season before Thanksgiving was routine. Spring gobblers would often be calling from all directions around camp. My older brother would spend a week there every year hunting spring turkey and we always shot our limit. Ah, the good old days.

Try using less air, like you’re huffing on a mirror to wipe it clean,

If it’s moving in your mouth you’re doing something wrong for sure.

I've never felt handicapped by not using mouth calls well. I can make any call I need on a box and/or pot. I very rarely call once a bird comes into view, though I've used a push peg call in close on occassion. I figure if he came that far, he'll be all the more interested if I go silent and come the last few yards. It's worked so far.

It just bugs me that I cannot seem to get the hang of mouth calls.

I'm with you 10Glocks-----I can't make them work either. I've tried for over 10 years. I'm think it's the shape of the roof of my mouth. I use my box call 100% of the time.

chhew on the ends of the latex a bit. it softens the tape and allows a more comfortabel seal. mouth calls are like boots. they ened to be broke in so to speak.

I've been videoing myself so I could listen to myself like a bird would.

Here one I did a few minutes ago in my work at home office. Forgive the heavy breathing the phone is in my face.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/8N14Mr9zFWZNTsyg6

Looks like you're trying manipulate the call with your lips and mouth....you might call a Turkey like that you never know.

People try and over think playing a diaphragm caller.

Put the call in the roof of your mouth hold it in place with your tounge... blow a high pitch yeee....then drop your jaw and the second part of the Yelp happens .....yawk.

Then just put it together at the spacing and speed you want....yes yawk... yew yark....yeeyawk.

Practice learning by lengthening and holding the high note...or front end of the Yelp

The azz end of the two note yelp comes pretty much automatic when you drop your jaw.

Its been said in the past to get in front of a Mirror watch and make your draw drop.

Next step is finding a diaprapham call you can play well.....this is the hard part.

The ones sold in big retail stores are sold on gimmick....the guys endorsing them and winning contest aren't using those calls.

Before I started using custom made diaphragms the Bass Pro parking lot was littered every spring with diaphragm calls that never made it out of the parking lot.

I use a guys diaphragm calls from Alabama...Sadler McGraw (look.him up on farce book)....years back he offered to make some calls for me.
He sent me a few I asked for a couple of changes mainly that I wanted a call that would play on a light whisper a call that I could whisper in a turkeys ear with and had back bone if I needed it.

He made a couple of changes and I told him that's it....

I told him he should name the call "The Judge the Jury and the Executioner"....he named it "The Judge and the Jury "

And I still use it.

I have used the diaphragms for years and mostly now I just call with my voice.....yelps, clucks, & purrs mostly. Takes a lot of practice and dedication to get it down. About this time of year if I am out and walking around in woods I will do these calls....just to get my confidence up I guess. I think you can lose it some if you don't keep it up.....kinda like a whistle. I know I cannot whistle like I could as a child simply because of not practicing. Just like shooting a basketball, throwing a baseball, snapping your fingers, and many thing that we take for granted. If you do not keep in touch with these you will lose them. I know that and when that ole bird is getting in my wheel house so to speak and you can't make a move, not having to use my hands to use a call is the advantage of the mouth calls. Like shooting off shoulder....once you learn it and do a little practice before season it will reward you at some point and save your day.

I agree, Winnie. Each winter I notice a regression from the previous year. I have to relearn things.

These guys we see on YouTube, guys that make videos for Primos and other makers, are doing it all the time. It's easy for me to keep a crow call, owl hooter or pot/box call on my desk beside my work computer and play with them during the day. It's not so easy to keep a call in my mouth. It's hard to practice enough to get good. Moreover, its hard to practice enough to stay good.

As far as calling with my voice, I can make a pretty convincing deer grunt and bleat call. I can purr better with my mouth than with a diaphram call. My son, though, can make a mouth GOBBLE that's more realisitc that one I've heard from a call. He's in Okinanwa but I'll see if he'll record himself gobbling next time I talk to him. It really is pretty cool.

Ok

I've been a turkey addict for 35 years. I could not use a diaphragm until about 12 years ago. I tried for YEARS and just could not do it.

Just get one and put it in every day for 3 minutes... make those few minutes count. Most people try for too long and get discouraged... I did this for years.

Everyone can use one... trimming is usually NOT necessary. Allowing the call to conform to the roof of your mouth ABSOLUTELY IS...

By getting proficient with mouth calls, you will negate all the movement you did with friction calls and increase your success exponentially

Call me sometime and I will walk you through it.

My technique needs improvement, no doubt. But I also have a high arched palate. Been told that by my dentist. Some people just do. And I think that contributes to the breaking of the seal the call makes in the roof of my mouth and the turning of the call.

I've been having SOME fun with my mouth calls the last few days. I have a dozen or more squirrels in my yard at any given time due to the seed I thow out for them, along with all manner of birds. For the last week or so, the starlings have been coming by the thousands and they will eat every scrap of food I throw out. They must know that a turkey is very aware and the sound makes them less cautious. They'll sit in the trees over the food but when they hear the turkey call they come down. I've been able to shoot about three dozen starlings from my home-offce window in the last 3 days doing this. The opossums and the foxes are eating good at night. I throw them over the fence and the next morning they are either gone or just a buncch of feathers. Hoodathunkit.

I struggle with these calls and pretty much gave up.

Please attache links of the better instructional videos and I'll try again.

I guess working from home during the pandemic has an advantage I can practice calls while working...

I find that I can take a new call out of the package and if I contour it over the steering wheel on the truck, it fits my mouth better. Some call makers have gone to using a plastic frame instead of the alum frame, you can't bend the plastic ones so I don't buy them.
Mouth calls from the same brand, same model don't always sound the same, some will be great and the next one sounds like crap.
I have a guy send me about 10 of his calls to try (different cuts, and reed configurations) I think I still have 2 or 3 of them but they all sounded good. I think small time makes do a much better job getting call to call consistency than mass produced makes do.

I thought I had laid it out pretty simple.

Ever hear the saying "Once you learn how to ride a bike you never forget".

That holds true with a Turkey call too....once the sound is imprinted in your head.

I never practice on calls...a week or so before Turkey season I get my diaphragm calls out of the freezer wash them and pick out a few of the best ones....they change some year to year.
Does my calling get better as the season progresses....sure it does.

The same with my other calls I get them out check them and do any maintenance needed load the vest and get my practice in the woods because I learned how to "ride the bike".

I'm a study of turkeys, turkey hunting (spring and fall), turkey killing, turkey calls, turkey call history and turkey hunters that I've talked with or met and observed over the years.

Not bragging but there's not much I don't know about it...

Turkeys calls....you basically have two classes of calls mechanically operated shuffling boxes (attached lid), slates and glass pots, scratch boxes, push pins, and the others....

Trumpets, diaphragms, tube calls are the calls that require more than just making a mechanical movement and require having somewhat of a musical ear.

But there are still some mechanics involved with all of them....

I do think that many times hunters try to sound like they are in a competition or something. Had head many many real turkeys that I thought at first were hunters that could not call worth a crap only to see a turkey walk out into the field. You don't have to be perfect.
Paraphrasing the words of Phil Robertson (the Duck Commander) "A real turkey (he said ducks) could not win a calling contest".

I've never heard a turkey that sounded bad....at times they do sound different.

Agreed. I've been hunting since the early 70s and have heard all kinds of noises coming out of turkeys. Some sounds don't even have names, I'm convinced. I've heard kee kees in the spring and gobbles in the dead of winter. Turkeys aren't computer progems. They do what they want when they want to. The only sure thing is that if you spend enough time in the woods you'll soon that there is no sure thing when it comes to turkey sounds.

Of course LFC... you're the expert.


I'll still seek other peoples input. People get second opinions on doctors too...

Bubba I don't why I even bothered to try and help.

I hear this said ALL the time.

Yes.......... I have heard hens make some awful sounds. And, no. You do NOT have to be perfect. But the more realistic you are, the better your chances are. I would rate woodsmanship and knowing the terrain as most important to a successful hunt. When I started hunting turkeys, I only knew about 3 other guys who hunted them, too. Competition was low and pressure was nonexistent. Now, it seems everybody and his brother hunts turkeys. The vast majority of guys I hear calling in the woods suck at it. Over the years, I have begun to put more and more credence in realistic calling.

The first mouth call started out with was a Camp Calls out of Talladega, Alabama. I don't see them anymore but, was a great call. It took me awhile to get good with it. They take some practice sometimes.

I agree with you. I guess my point is, I don't get all tore up if I hit a bad note once in awhile. I want to sound as good as I can but sometimes things happen.

100%+

Yep

Much to the OP's query............. I've been using diaphragm calls for over 40 years. Took a little while to get onto them to where I could kill a turkey with them with regularity. Took a lot longer than that to where I felt like I actually SOUNDED like a turkey. To this day, I am still tweaking and trying to perfect my execution. I'll never be a competition caller. Those guys have a gift.........like a pro athlete. But I do get a little satisfaction outta having another hunter tell me "Dude !!! I really thought you were a real hen".

Put a diaphragm in your mouth and leave it there til you get A SOUND. Then start making THAT sound into a turkey hen sound. You can watch videos if they help you. Or you can just learn on your own which manipulations of air and call and tongue produce a desired effect. Beyond that........... know what a real wild turkey hen actually sounds like. THIS is why most of the guys I hear in the woods suck at calling. They know how to "talk"............they just say stuff that no wild turkey hen ever said.

I don't think occasional bad notes are as harmful as calling too loudly. I called loudly from my set up for too many years because that's what produced the most gobbles. And while it reliably produced gobbles, it didn't reliably bring in birds. Gobbles are a tom's calls to hens to come to him. It's hard to get a tom to come in when he thinks the hen is actively looking for him. He'll keep calling to her so she can find him, but he won't come looking for her when he thinks she on her way looking for him. Too many times I've heard a tom's gobble get further and further away as I called louder and louder.

Now, first thing, if my traditional locator doesn't get a gobble, then I'll strike a few really loud, really high pitched yelps first thing to get a ressponse. After that I move to my set up location. I switch to a glass or true slate and go a much softer, raspier notes. Works much better to get a tom to come in than calling loudly. And the soft and quiters the closer they get seems to work best for me. In fact, I scarcely call at all once he's in sight.

What holds true for men seem to hold true for toms. The best piece of ass was the one you had to go after, not the one that came to you.

I usually start soft and work my way up in volume until I get a response. If no response, I wait a little while and repeat,. Depending on what is going on, I either give it some time or move on

Once you really learn to.hunt/call turkeys the term "usually" goes out the window.

There's a simple answer to every problem scenario you wrote about.

This thread went from my sucky calling on a diaphragm to how I call turkeys occasionally.....

If that was pointed at me, only YOU can answer that question.

I didn't ask for video links from you.

Exactly at you....you can't learn to play a diaphragm call from a video.....just like you can't learn to Turkey hunt from a video.

I might as well been telling my dog the machanics of a diaphragm caller.

Don't even engage with him. He's a troll and has been from his first day.

True.

He may be a knowledgeable, but people hate a know-it-all. Especially one without reading comprehensions skills.


Good thread 10Glocks and I'll dust off my mouth calls and try them again.

I'm actually heading to a state forest today to start some early scouting. I'll take a couple of calls to see it anything responds. Probably too early to get much in the way of responses. But I've gotten them in the dead winter if February before. So one never knows.

I sure am glad I don't hunt where you do... there is nothing worse than having people "practicing" on birds and educating them.

Yeah, because none of them has ever been hunted or called to before.

All he's doing is hurting himself.

I'm a "troll" and you're the guy with no real answers for anything.

While I'm always looking for an excuse to hit the woods, it's pretty much a waste of time to be scouting in January. Gobblers are flocked up and on their winter range right now.........which could be a couple miles from where they'll be when it comes time you wanna kill one. So go wander around now. But do your scouting every morning the week before you are gonna hunt.

As far as calling before season goes...... Have at it. I generally don't. But it's just because I usually don't have the time for it. Turkeys are dumb as a rock. Their "memory" is less than a day long. They don't put 2 and 2 together and get 4. If you call well enough to kill a gobbler then you call well enough to not make them "call shy". And for the guys who go out and call them pre-season that suck at calling.........all the better. They're just making it harder for themselves and easier for me. Biggest thing, though, that affects how gobblers may respond, as far as human influence goes, is just your presence in the woods. Be stealthy. Don't just go crashing around.

Some day I hope to have killed enough gobblers to be able to self-proclaim as an expert. I'm not sure what that number is, though. But I have been at his sport long enough to know "usually" is in the vocabulary of EVERYONE who's being honest. Aside from being dumb as rocks, turkeys can be ignorantly random. There are things that work some of the time..........most of the time........but not all of the time. Hence "usually". The day I can walk outta my house and come back with a dead bird EVERY TIME...........that's the day I quit.

Are there any woods in Arizona ?

I would suspect. But I can't confirm. Never been to Arizona.

Seen pictures, though.

I get it now.....you're from up my azz.

If I were, you'd know it.


But, yeah............. You caught on.

I've been to Arizona several times, last time in 2018, and can assure you, they have forests there.

As far as winter range, I'm not sure where you hunt, but in the areas I hunt, the birds are on the same areas year around. They are flocked up, by and large, but they are in the areas they'll be in the spring. Where there is food, water, safe roosting areas and cover. I've been seeing turkeys all deer season long. They're still here.

As far as scounting now. There is no good reason not to be in the woods whenever you can be. I hunt on on state forest land. Right now, winter logging is occurring. It will be pretty much over when spring season rolls around. Yesterday I got to see what is being clear cut and what isn't. I don't want to be surprised by what might be no longer there a week before season. Clear cutting will move flocks. Luckily, the tracts I hunt aren't going to be affected this year. If they were, I'd be able to refamiliarize myself with tracts I haven't hunted in years. The state forests, particularly this one, is a patch work of state forest tracts and private land, almost all of that cultivated fields. I know many of these tracts like the back of my hand because I spend a lot of time in them in season and off.

Quail season here is wrapping up and I ran into two quail hunters yesterday and their 5 dogs and heard from them that, as usual, they saw turkeys on the tract earlier in the morning. They also told me they encountered a large amount of turkeys while quail hunting on a local Army post not too much further away, one I've not hunted myself. Turkey hunting is allowed there but almost non-existent. That sort of intel is always welcome information.

Yesterday, I flushed a covey of quail myself walking through a clear cut area to some bottom land. I flushed a woodcock. I kicked up a few rabbits, too. I also encountered some sparrows with bright orange stripes on their heads I've yet to identify. I didn't see or hear any turkeys, but the scratchings are evident near the beech trees where there are still plenty of beech nuts on the ground, and all among the hardwood stands. And lots of droppings.

I spend a lot of time in the woods. If not with my gun, then with my camera (check the photograph forum). I see no reason not to be there as much as I can be. Too many hunters only go during season or a week or two before. A lot of turkey hunters I've talked to think spring season coincides with mating season. It doesn't. Mating is mostly over when spring season starts. Here, mating starts in late February and is in fuill swing by mid March. By the time spring season rolls around, most of the hens have been mated and the still willing Toms are still looking for straglers. Those are the hens you're imitating. You learn this stuff by being there.

woodsmenship is more important than perfect calling in my book.
Lot easier to get turkey to come to where they already want to go.

Been working with my mouth calls for awhile now. I definitely have a preference for Quaker Boy over Primos. Sound quality is nearly identical as far as I can tell. But the frames in the Quaker Boys are thicker, and the body material is significantly more flexible than the Primos. The Quaker Boys seal much easier on the palate than the Primos and don't rotate on me. This is the first year I've tried Quaker Boy mouth calls and so far I can use them better than any other brand I've tried.

I have not tried QB in years, may try one sometime.
Which one are you using

Tried and coughed and gagged for a couple days and said screw it.

Bought a slate and got a 21# tom that yr.

Next yr tried the HS DD diaphragm calls again.

Gag and cough, and then a yelp.

YGBKM.

Within 2 days I could yelp, purr and cut. I have a high roof mouth and my first call I trimmed too much.

I don't trim any now.

Like double reeds and nothing with a nasty tail to buzz my tongue.

Its kinda like taking a Ruger MK .22 pistol apart.

Frustrating if not aware of whats what, but once you do it right you go "is that all there is to it?".

I still hunt w a slate, but slobber all over a dual reed as well.

Its easy, kinda weird to explain. The old DVD "so you want to be a turkey hunter" explains it but it (for me) didn't translate to what was going on in my mouth.

Now I just chuck a call in and practice a day or two before season and am good to go.

Like riding a bike.


Just relax and mess with it off and on and it'll click.

I like the HS Double D or the MAD double reed.
Kill birds with either.

Problem is.............HS stuff used to be everywhere and now has dang near disappeared.

I bought a 3-pack somewhere. Either from Natchez or Mack's Prairie Wings. They're the easiest for me to use of any mouth call I've tried.

https://www.quakerboy.com/product/sr-3-pack/

I always liked HS Strut calls in general. I've got quite a few older HS Strut box and slate calls that have worked well for me over the years. I have some older World Champion triple glass and slate over double glass pot calls that are fantastic. The glass was a little less raspy than the slate, but you could get loud and very subtle calls out of either. Haven't tried any of HS's newer calls. I'm sure I've tried some of their mouth calls but don't have any now.

After hearing this you think you should be recommending calls to people ?

LOL...

That was funny. Would have been more so if it had any basis in fact.

That not you slurping on the diaphragm ?

I use to buy HS Strut calls, but they were very inconsistent from call to call for me. I like a 2.5 reed type call myself. I use to buy "Heart of Dixie" calls but they are hard to find now. A few years ago a guy on a turkey hunting forum I was on sent me about a dozen or so calls he hand made. I am still using them and they have been very consistent form call to call.
I carry some small broken tooth picks and slide between the reeds after the hunt to keep the reeds from sticking together. I store them in a plastic bag in a small refrigerator in my garage after the season. I think this will be my 3 or 4th season for the call I used last year.

Yeah, that's me. But I don't see me recommending mouth calls. Like the title of my thread, I don't know it all. I've been looking for your tutorials so I can know it all, but can't find any. Maybe if I can find one I can finally learn how to body shoot turkeys and techniques for picking shot out of meat.

Is this not you....

One little cluck and his head was up.

You took that as recommending a call? I think we need to find out what your head is made of. It seems denser than TSS.

Federal LFC. The densest shot on the market.

lol

If you're using Quaker Boy or MAD or HS Strut or other production diaphragms..............do yourself a favor. Try a couple calls from someone who is NOT mass producing, but rather, building them one at a time. You will be AMAZED at the difference.

For a couple decades I was on staff for a smallish call company and we made them one at a time. The company got sold and I had to start buying my diaphragms again. I found a Flextone that was just the schizz. I hunted that call that whole season with a lot of success. So I bought 3 more............just so I'd be in good supply. Long story short.......when I started breaking into the 3 new calls, EVERY ONE OF THEM ended up in the garbage. Loose reeds......just sounded like crap........no consistency from the original one to the new ones.

I got a lead on a smaller callmaker and gave his stuff a try. A bit more expensive. But the calls are QUALITY and consistent one to the next.

l have thrown more than 1 production call out in the trash. Like Yoder, get one you like, go back and buy more and the others sounds like crap

Who do you suggest?

pm sent

Working from home does let one practice.

Here's my attempts at cutting and yelping.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/iR4xFC7fqSkJTP8Y8

And a prewtty poor kee kee run
https://photos.app.goo.gl/7xRstTBeuwP4q3cA7

I've gotten to the point where I can just pop in the call and immediately start calling without fumbling with the call. And I can use the Quaker Boys a little better than the Primos. The QBs has some sponge in the reed framer that makes it seal better than the Primos.

Lordy mercy....

LOL, I actually wrote "Que LFC" in my post and then took it out.

Put a hat on that bald head...

Speaking of Bald Eagles, I was wonderting what TSS shot we would use for those if turkeys were the national bird.

Hey! What's wrong with being bald! I still part my hair down the middle, the parts just gotten wider over the years!

I prefer to think of it as high speed low drag hair myself....

And I'm not bald. I just keep it buzzed. I don't have any grey hair at 55 years old and that pisses off my wife so she doesn't want to see it.