what do you think is the best 3" or 31/2" in 12ga for kiiling those long beards.

I run 3 1/2" shotguns because I believe they are best. Some do not like the recoil and I don`t either, but can tolerate it for the sake of having the best setup I can use.

I like the 3" inch guns. The 3" inchers still handle like a shotgun. They are lighter, shorter, better balanced, there are more 3" loads, and the shorter 3" loads may tend to pattern better than the longer "Roman Candle" 3.5's, they recoil less, and are less expensive to feed. A 3" .12 gauge can kill a turkey gobbler at 50+ yards with the right choke and load combination. What else could you ask for?

Which ever your gun patterns best...

Go with the 3.5", it'll give you that extra edge that is sometimes needed and you can always (most models) back off to 3" or even 2&3/4" in the same shotgun. If you have a 3.5"'er, with a well patterened choke and shooting hevi-shot, you've got a 60 yd weapon. I mention 60 yds because we sometimes misjudge the distance.

An example; Mossberg 835 ulti-mag, 24" ported bbl, Rhino choke and hevi-shot (triplex loads)from the Nitro Company in Missouri. A prefit de-celerator or limbsaver pad helps, too!! With this setup and a polished bbl bore you should hit + 300 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yds. It's almost surgical and you can avoid hitting/peppering other birds in the near vicinity if they are present. You can also miss'em pretty easy if they are close up!

My .02$

3.5 inch for me. I shoot lead number 5's I don't want to pay for the expensive stuff so just put a bunch of lead in the air. I've got the job done several times with a 20 gauge though so I don't need it just want best I can get. (without spending a bunch on shells)

Good points and all true.

Expensive stuff to the forefront, when I consider what I spend most years chasing turkeys, e.g., cost of; 2-4 day hunts, diesel, hotels, food, etc., the cost of a few shotgun shells ain't squat by comparison for me and like you, I want what works best under those circumstances.

Those Winchester Extended Load #5's are no slouches either. Prices are right, too.

My 870 Supermag likes the Xtended Range quite well. I have decided #6 is what I have the most confidence in. I shoot #6 in my 10`s as well.

The 3 1/2" Winchester Supreme 2oz Hi-Velocity #6 is really great stuff for the less expensive route, I shot it exclusively last spring to harvest my 4 birds.

My 11/87 12ga 3" Winchester #5 has taken Tom out to 50 yards. No flopping around. My 835 Accu-Mag 3 1/2 24" ported has taken Tom out to the same distance. The only difference is the 11/87 doesn't kill on both ends.

Ken

Ken, there are a few other differences too. The shorter receiver, lighter weight, faster handling, ect. as I laid out in my post above allows the 3" guns to behave like a shotgun should. To me the 3.5's handle like a fence post and for what? Another few yards in distance is really stretching true all around utility after a certain point.

My fence post is fairly light thus the Limbsaver pad and long eye relief red dot. Depends on where you hunt and how you do it but the old adage still remains, Pard, "bring enough gun". Now, if you hunt Turks from your backyard/porch, use a .410 crack bbl and call it good.

Somehow,,,I never noticed receiver length being a factor for shotguns but I'll pass that on to my Goose hunting buddies, they don't know!!! Call'em the "unwashed". I've yet to 'shortstroke a pump shotgun' much less an semi-auto one and somehow I always equated faster handling with straight (English style) stocks & shorter bbls, not receivers but every day is a new day and one learns something whether he/she wants to or not. We're talking giving up an ounces for pounds out of the business end?? How many times does one shoot in any given turkey season,,,,,? Recoil, take it like a MAN, dude! Just joking on that. You'll never feel it when levelling down on a nice Tom. Probably wont even hear it discharge.

BTW, Amigo, another few yds. in distance is/can be everything, especially with a tight pattern. But,,, your mileage may vary on that pending where and how you hunt. Travel, expenses and lessons learned the hard way will open your mind, I've found. But, what the hay, eh?

No slam, just opinions here which is what a Forum is for.

Yea, well how many dedicated skeet, grouse, or quail guns have a receiver to handle the roman candle? When you look for fast handling, responsive shotguns, 3.5" aren't in the running. Your goose blind buddies sit on their butt and swing is all important for their pass shooting style. The guys humping the hills and flushing game ain't using those heavy, long receiver, fence post. I suppose if I hunted farm lots or green fields where I could drive up and off load my gear into a blind or a stool and didn't have to lug the monsters around, then perhaps I wouldn't be too bothered either. I hunt the big timber of the National Forest here in the Ozarks and put many miles per day on in rough, steep, country. I value compactness, weight, and easy handling. I like to shoot my birds on THIS side of the half field mark and find my Benelli M1S90 3" .12 gauge and Kick's choke to work just fine with Winchester's Supreme Hi-Velocity #5's. There are no shortcuts or substitutions for woodsmanship... No slam, just an opinon.

Noted. Noted and well said, MOGC. But, 1st, last and always, we're talking turkeys on the turkey hunting forum, no?

I do, however, hunt Missouri and Kentucky, work allowing. Kinda thick there but the 3.5" Nitros will cut a path to them ,,all 'woodsmanship' aside.

Never said that 3.5" was for skeet, quail, grouse or pheasant. Most I know that chase'em use O/U's for that, big money shotguns with "short receivers" (that you are hung up on). Bet you've used a dagger and slingshot for Toms, no? benjamin pump (short stroke model), maybe?

Lighten up, Bro. We are on the same side just different experiences and different ways. Again, no slam atchatya.

MOGC,

I agree that a 3" is less weight than the 3 1/2" but not by much. My 11/87 does get heavy after awhile and is my go to gun. I did a trade on a Benelli Nova 3 1/2" and it's heavier then the 835 Accu-Mag. All will do the same job given their limit in yardage.

I love my 11/87 so much that I have a camo 24" rifled slug barrel cantilever, 28" camo VR for my birds and a 21 smooth bore which I choke improved cylinder for rifled slugs. At 50 yards it will print 1" groups 3 shots. My deer shots are out to 30 yards in my shotgun area. I'm also going to make a 23" turkey barrel for this gun. I've got a 28" blue donor to cut and re-thread for just a turkey choke. Then I will send it out to have a camo job. I still need to purchase a 26" barrel also. I want every barrel configuration for this shotgun. That's how much I love this gun.

Remington only makes a 23" for their 870 & the 11/87 super mags and that's why I'll make my own 23". Now ! Enough talk, Lets go get Tom !!!

Ken

Toot,
I ain't mad, I'm just beatin' the brush to see what comes out of it.

SBE2 weighs .1 pounds more than a M2 a little bigger difference if both guns were weighed loaded but still not much of a difference. Have to be pretty sensitive to notice the difference. I hunt big woods too no farm or fields. Other companies guns other than benelli aren't a lot heavier in the 3.5 chambers either.Remington list both the 3 inch and 3.5 inch model 870 turkey guns having the same weight even though the 3inch model has a shorter barrel. When you misjudge distance or an unseen branch knocks down some of your pattern the extra shot in the air will help. Plenty of upland bird hunters use 3.5 inch guns around here because alot of us use one shotgun for everything. Pheasants, grouse, and woodcock are all killed in wisconsin by guys using guns chambered for 3.5 inch shells. Just a ton more versitile.

Whats best is whatever YOU like best.

3" is all I use because it works for me.

Wellll, you got me, MOGC, and ran me out of the brush pile!!

On light shotguns, a friend bought his son one of the Rem 870 pump turkey guns, 20" bbl, camo, you know the one. He polished the bore, choked it and uses the Nitro Co. 3" 20 ga. shells and that little puppy is a shooter and near ideal for running and gunning. That one made me sit up and take notice for the day when I can't run at a trot. It comes with the Limbsaver pad, fiber optic sights, etc. With 3 Grandsons I might could make a fair case for getting one.

Hey, no harm, no foul. As another said - 'whatever works for you'.

Toot,
I just bought my wife a .20 gauge 870 Youth Model with coffee colored brown laminated stock, recoil pad, matte finish, 21" vent rib barrel, choke tubes, ect. I put a sling swivel kit on it and a trim sling. I'm probably going to order her a Kick's Gobblin' Thunder choke tube and begin experimenting with some "heavier than lead" new tech shotloads. If everything goes well I think I can squeeze the range out to 40 yards with the right 3" loads. That'll do her well, light and trim, easy packin' and natural pointing.

winchester lead number 5's worked for me and others in 20 gauges when I used a 20 gauge even at 40 yards.

I don't know what it is but the #5 is what I use also. It must have just right balance of pellets. I've walked out empty with #4's and #6's but the last 3 Toms were hit with the 5's. Even my 3 1/2's are 5's. Hurry Up May 3rd. I've got a date with old Blue Head.

Ken

I do like the number 5's in plated lead for my .12's. The Winchester Supreme Hi-Velocity 1 3/4 ounce of 5's for the 3" .12 gauge has bang flopped a lot of turkeys for me. I've killed them as far as a step or two past 50 yards with that load and a Kick's GT .660" choke from my Benelli M1. Like to get them closer though. Taking the little lady and that petite little .20 gauge has me a tad concerned... Guess I better bone up on my woodsmanship!

I predict that little stomper will get it done, MOGC. Brought my wife turkey hunting 3 yrs. back and guess what, I've got a podnah. She do tend to sleep in late on a rainy morning though! Arrgh!

Brought her out to Wyoming this past season (Sept.) and nailed 5 of the 6 Antelope tags we had both drawn. Now, don't cha know it, I'm looking for a 7mm-08 for her. Careful what you wish for, Bro. Back on turkeys, went through the Shirley Basin area of central Wyo., just on a lark and cruising back homeward and saw a # of birds. Public land.

The great thing about turkey seasons is that the farther north you go, the later the seasons open giving you one fine roadtrip from south to north. Do it if and while you can.

Stay well.

OT

I go with 3" shells and here is why. Most of the time, you aren't going to be shooting all that far, and the turkeys are not that hard to kill. When you get up into 3.5" or 10 GA, you're talking recoil levels like what you use on elephant. That is simply too much.

Generally speaking, at least in these parts, there is so much cover in the woods after the first week of season that 20-30 yard shots are about it. Some dream of shooting out to 60. I dream of Seeing out to 60 yards. If you can call them into 50 yards, you can probably call them into 20 or closer. Every turkey I've shot has been inside 30 yards, and most have been inside of 20. Outside of a couple of jakes I let loose on at 60 yards years ago, all the ones I've missed were missed because of the choke being too tight, my cheek weld being off, and poor shot placement. Even the ones I've missed got hit with the wad.

I also monitor a lot of turkey forums. A 3.5" hunter is usually crowing about taking a turkey inside 35 yards. When guys stop talking theoreticals and talk talking reality, they're trying to get an edge that gets them from 40 yds out to 45, or maybe 35 out to 40. That is a distance that standard high-brass lead 2.75 loads can handle as long as the pattern is right.

Take it from a guy who has been hunting turkey for 25 years: back when I started, a 2.75 inch load in a standard full-choked gun was just fine. If you keep looking for an edge, there will always be someone willing to sell it to you.

Basically what it boils down to is...what works for you in your gun.
I am one of those 3 1/2" guys, but a few years ago I took my wife out and since she would be shooting my "big gun" I found some 2 3/4" shells that the 11/87 (big gun)really liked.
I couldnt believe how many of those #5 pellets were in the kill zone at 30 yds with the 2 3/4" shells.
Anyway she got her longbeard first thing opening morn with those underpowered 2 3/4" shells and I had to practically rip the shotgun from her to shoot the other longbeard that was behind her bird...we got a double that year.
Since then I got her the Rem 870 Youth (NWTF jake edition) 20 gauge and its ready to roll with some 3" shells....hopefully she can use it this year.

shaman------Truer words have never been typed. I still use 2 3/4" baby mags, kills them just fine at 40 yards. 90% of my gobblers are taken @25 yards. No need for 3 1/2" or 3" IMO. CB

3" hevi shot will group better than 3.5" so stay 3".

Spot

I am a tinkerer, and am obsessed with the sport of turkey hunting. When I started, there were no 3 1/2" shotguns available.
I hunted in Texas with a 3" 11/87 and killed every bird I shot at. I killed my first 18 in a row without a miss, and thought I was gonna slit my wrist after that first time it happened.

I just appreciate technology, and what it brings to my sport. New guns, new loads, new chokes. This kinda reminds me of the old black and white TV shows when the patients in the dentist office were kicking and screaming with the good Dr. inserting the pliers in the patients mouth. Things change for the better, and if you want to sit on your thumbs and let well enough alone, thats fine, but do not think for a minute the guy who strives to best his equipment is doing so for laziness or poor hunting skills, It may just be that guy can call a turkey across the county right up to the hole in the end of that 3 1/2" shotgun.

If a 3" shotgun could shoot with a 3 1/2" then that is what I`d use.
I shoot and test loads every year pryor to the opener.

Passion, is many things to many people..........

Nope.

OT

Well... maybe so. Each shotgun is an individual and only patterning with a variety of loads can reveal what actually does pattern best. It isn't unheard of that the lighter weight and shorter shot charge pattern better than the larger one. I have a buddy that has a 3" .12 ga. that routinely shoots its best with 2 3/4" loads. Regardless the 3" loads has more shot, the shorter load actually puts more shot in the target. And that is what counts.

MOGC,

Trying not to be anal retentive here but I'm speaking of an optimized, special purpose only - turkey shotgun. Optimization starts with a mirror polished bore, anyone can do it by using, e.g., a drill motor, cleaning rod with a brass 12 ga. bore brush and wrapped in a nylon (green, kitchen type) scouring pad and continually spraying wd-40 while reaming up and down till the "mirror" appears. That alone improved my patterns by +20% using the factory choke (.695) in the 835 ulti-mag. Simply put - polishing shortens your shot string and allows the choke to do its job.

Further tuning with Nitros and a Rhino got me to about as good as it gets @ 320+ in a 10" circle @ 40 yds and +200 out to 60 yds and I do not advocate shooting them that far but knowing it will do it gives me a comfort factor should I misjudge distance and I've done so (badly so) on several occasions. This same shotgun is also deadly with 2.75's and 3" nitro shells as I've let youngsters and my wife shoot birds with it. I'm not selling anything here, just info.

Long story, short - optimize and more shot is better than less and it can be a laborious and sometimes expensive path to get optimized. Just my .02$. It's all in what you want and what has and does work for you.

OT

We can certainly agree on that...

I run what patterns best in my guns. In one that would be 3 inch, in another one that would be 3.5 inch

I've never had a problem or lost / missed a bird with a 20 gauge, so when I use my 3" 12 gauge it feels like cheating.
I run #5's in both.

I'm sure the 3 1/2" 12gauge is good for something, but I'm also sure I don't know what that something is...

Similar to dials on a Leupy, free extra range.


Does that help?

Call them in closer or use a rifle.

I call them in close enough for the 3 1/2".

I have a 835 with a Jellyhead in it. It patterns better with three inches than with 3.5 inches. As for as recoil, I have a libsaver pad on it and I can not tell a difference between the two shells.

Many things contribute to a good pattern. Ammo selection, choke, shot size.

I`d bet few people have spent the time and shot the rounds to get my guns where they are.

One day I`m going to count the Extended Turkey choke tubes, and Turkey loads in my house.

I was taught to count pellets in a 10" circle, and then 30" circle and count every pellet.

This will allow a viable comparison to chokes, loads and shot sizes, and their effect on center density.

Factory loaded Winchester Supreme #6 2oz out of my BPS 10, delivers 200 pellets in a 10" circle @ 40 yds.

My 3 1/2" 12`s deliver in the 160`s

I can stick a 3" in the same gun, and can see the difference, and it is enough, I never bother to count it.

My 870 Supermag on the other hand shooting a Rhino .6525" with Nitro Rays triplex load will deliver over 300 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yds.

I`m a tinkerer and devoted to a sport I truley love.

Take the dials off your Leupy, run a 2 3/4" shell, it don`t make me no nevermind.

I just do know what works best for me and my guns.

My favorite..........with last springs volunteers.........

A few more........

The Mossberg 835 will be available later this spring for anyone interested.

You gotta put a Limbsaver on that SP-10!!!!

Now that's a nice "pile of bird"; and I do mean that!

It kicks way less than any of the others. It is the only one I never killed a bird with out of these, so you KNOW which one will get the nod the middle of March.

When's TN season start? IN doesn't start till late April, and I finally got a spot in KY to start down there this year, but not till April 12th.

I hunt Mississippi and Tennessee and MS, starts first March 15th. Tennessee usually the last Saturday in March.

If my wife takes the kids to Florida for spring break I just might have to give you a call and motor down to TN!!!

Nice bird!

with my Benelli M2, the 3 inchers just about give me a concussion.....so I think that is plenty for me...and I have been patterning a lot with 1-1/2oz 2-3/4inch ammo lately...a lot less brutal and will do the trick.

I believe someone said..............

A man must know his limits...

I just found the new regs for Mississippi, and the youth is the 8th of March. I still have a 14 yr old here that might take his Dad hunting..........

http://home.mdwfp.com/Default.aspx

Season starts the 15th as usual for the rest of us.

Comon down if you can chance the cold fronts.

Let me see when the missus is heading to FL....

Both will do the job. I have shot literally thousands of patterning shots in the past 30 years. It has been my experience that I get more pellets in a 10 inch circle with 3 1/2 inch guns versus 3 inch guns. It is also my opinion, that many of the guys who say 3 inchers are better are afraid of the 3 1/2 inch guns or that their opinions are not based on personal experience but hearsay.

Well said slammer.......

this may be repeteing but the only real advantage of the 3.5in is more pellets in the air (pattern denisty) not vol. over 3in. this being said i still use 3.5in like all the advantage i can get

I concur............

There's not much question that you can get more pellets in a 10 inch circle with a 3 1/2 inch shell than you can with a 3 inch. If that is your sole criterion for choosing a turkey load then by all means use a 3 1/2. For several posters here it seems to be the only factor of any importance. That's fine if that's what floats your boat, but how about a little tolerance for those who base their choices on more than just that one thing?

Some of us look at factors such as gun weight, size, cost and recoil and decide that a while a 3 inch might not put quite as many pellets in a 10 inch circle, it certainly puts in enough of them to cleanly kill any turkey that has ever lived under any realistic conditions.

I can't see paying hundreds of dollars more to buy a longer and heavier gun that kicks harder in order to fling an additional 1/4 ounce of shot to gain a theoretical advantage on shots I won�t take because they are too far away in the first place.

YMMV.

There is absolutely no advantage to 3.5 vs 3 IMO. Patterns are far more important than the length of the shell whether it be a 20ga or a 3.5 10ga.

It's a fact that some guns will pattern better with 3" shells vs 3.5s. Each gun will behave differently, only the pattern boards will tell. I personally don't see an advantage to a 3.5. I often hear people say "it's got more shot, so it's better." That couldn't be farther from the truth IMO. It doesn't matter if it has 1oz or 3oz of shot, what matters is how much of that shot is going to hit your intended target. Another oz of shot sprayed all over the place outside your target is useless. I've shot guns that pattern better with 3" loads.

If you don't believe me, go to www.allaboutshooting.com and ask Clark, he knows his stuff.

Good Luck

Reloader7RM

Reloader7RM you said a mouthful. I agree 110%

I killed six eastern birds last year,three with 3.5 inch loads,three with 3 inch loads. In the early season when the leaves are off the trees,I want every advantage in terms of long range patterns.

As the season progresses here in Alabama and Mississippi,the woods green up and the long shots pretty much go away,I switch from my 3.5 inch 870 with a Rhino choke to a Benelli super 90 with a slightly more open choke.

I arrived at this system because I missed a couple of birds on the move in thick cover at twenty steps with the 870 which is set up for shots at 50 yards.

If the arguement is decided by putting the most pellets in a ten inch circle at 50 yards,the 3.5 inch gun is the clear winner based on ten years of patterns with dozens of loads and nearly that many choke tubes. When I know that I may need to shoot past 40 steps,give me the bigger gun.

If the arguement is decided by other factors and the choice is made not to shoot beyond 45 yards max,then there are plenty of 3 inch guns,chokes and loads that can get it done.

Just my views,

Britt

A much bigger mouthful...

I like this guy.

I shoot a Benelli Super Black Eagle II. I have a magazine extension to gain the full advantage of nearly a box of ammo in my shotgun. When I turkey hunt I go to shoot turkeys. I figure it's best to get everything in your favor.

I put 2-3 1/2 inch #4 buckshot in the magazine first, then 2-3 inch #2 lead, then 1-3 1/2 inch #4 buffered turkey load, and it all topped off with a 3 1/2 inch # 6 buffered tukey load. The Benelli will shoot them all as fast as I can pull the trigger. The #4 buckshot will still penetrate a 2 inch door at 60 yards, so there isn't a turkey safe in the woods with this combination.

If I hunt for sport, I shoot at ducks with smaller steel shot. I don't really care if I even hit ducks because they are a mess to clean up and even worse to eat. Turkeys are another matter. I want to get them when I hunt them.

For all you critics out there, I haven't had to get into the end of my magazine yet, but if I ever did I am ready. The following picture shows 3 turkeys shot with a Benelli Nova: 3 1/2 inch with #4 buffered turkey loads; One shot with a Winchester model 97 2 3/4 inch #4 turkey load; and a Benelli Super Black Eagle modified by me for extreme turkey hunting and a magazine of certain death.

The game regulations in Montana are considerably looser than they are in California, but I suspect that's true about just about everything. Here there's an upper limit of #2 birdshot for turkeys and a 3 shot limit (2 in the mag, 1 in the chamber.)

What is the reasoning behind your shotshell selection? It sounds like you're planning to ward off a banzai charge of enraged turkeys.

It is somewhat of a backwards progression if you read the writing. The last 2 shots would obviuosly be the first 2 in the magazine. With those 3 1/2 inch #4 buckshot loads as the last 2 rounds, I'm thinking that I have fired almost 6 ounces of shot and if the turkey hasn't succombed to that, the buckshot loads should do the trick as they will still penetrate 2 inch pine boards at 60 yards.

I have hunted turkeys here in Montana for quite a few years, and I find turkeys much more on the wild side than all the "Outdoor Channel" hunters seem to hunt.

I haven't shot into the "Bonzai" loads yet, but they are there, should I need them. I haven't ever shot all the ammo I take with me on any hunting trip, but I would rather come back with game and spare ammo than run out trying.

It reminds me of a scene in "Unforgiven" with Clint Eastwood and Gene Hackman. When all the deputies were loading their guns in the Sheriff's office, one deputy asked the one armed deputy, why he had 2 loaded guns when he only had one arm. His reply.."I don't want to get killed for the lack of shooting". I am excerciseng the same logic here.

i use #4 shot winchester turkey loads they r awsome taking down some nice gobblers with 1 shot =XD

oh by the way 3 in shells

I've used 3" Winchester Supreme 2 oz #4s for many years. I've never used more than one per turkey either.

I fooled with 7 dif 3.5" loads with none shooting well from my 20" 835. Bought some 3" loads to try and patterned them today. After all was said and done, the REM Premier Mag copper plated did well. 50-60 pellets printed into a 6" circle at 40 every time.

guess it proves more is not alway better.

Some use this rule:

if a little is good,
a lot is better,
and too much is just right.....