This is a closed auction on a Spanish built 99. These guns are occasionally referenced in this forum but never really talked about. I don't think I want one but I do think it would be interesting knowing more about their place in the context of 99 production. What exactly is the story of the Spanish made 99?


https://www.gunbroker.com/item/894239363

(and not the Spanish Inquisition)

I don’t know anything about them other than I guess they were the last attempt to keep them in production. Glad I didn’t see that one or I would have bought it for that price. Would have made a great candidate for rebore to .338 Federal

That went cheap

And you don't hear that too much these days

Got some figure to that wood.

Okay.. To the best of our knowledge...

Not all the details are known, including exactly when it began or ended. But apparently it was in or shortly after 1987 that Ron Coburn at Savage wanted to continue the 99, but needed to bring the prices down. There was too much labor involved to make it profitable to continue them, and Savage had just gone through a bankruptcy.

So he contracted with Llama to create new methods of creating the large parts of the 99 through investment casting and more modern CNC methods. Llama did this. All the smaller parts, barrels and stocks continued to be made in the USA, but the receiver and lever and probably a couple other parts were made in Spain. The guns were assembled in Spain. About 200 US made receivers were sent to Spain as a control group, presumably they were returned and finished in the US at some point (might explain a 1987 99C I have with a blued lever).

So somewhere between 700 and 1200 rifles were made in Spain up through about 1994, at which time Savage brought all manufacturing back to the US - but continued to use the investment casting and CNC methods designed by Llama.

The Spanish guns do have a reputation for low quality.. but having one, and having had half a dozen 99C's from the 90's, I don't see any difference. I haven't shot them, but appearance wise they look the same. It might be that Savage cleaned up/fixed the Spanish 99's before they shipped them, but the end result looks the same.

Almost all Spanish 99C's were in 308, though at least one 243 is known of. Catalogs listed them as available in 308 and 243, though most of the years they stated the 99 was available only in limited quantities.

here is one that didn't go cheap. if I had seen the one above I may not have been able to resist at that price. just because.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/893530597

Yeah, that one I'd seen for sale. Made me happy about mine that's in the box.

Thanks! Between 700 and 1200 guns made. That's a rare bird.

Learning is lifetime! A whole new world/dimension of Savage production I knew nothing of... Such existence! Not to make a difference. I came late to Savage as backing into a bargain several decades ago. Such by then, some several decades of collecting, Finally, that 99H of 1938 in 250 w/nifty Stith mounts & Lyman Alaskan scope... Definitely getting my attention! From there... Tuning in & turning on'!

While yet, with rare exceptions, fixated on the true vintage - fifties & earlier Savage levers, some foreign lever production has definitely achieved my attention. "Miroku!" Japanese maker of fine rifle products. For Winchester, pulling their "huevos" from the frying pan. The Win levers we see today... I believe mos5 Japanese mfg! My 1886 Browning saddle ring carbine, Miroku damned nice! Far better than poor "Remlins"!

I'd like some opinions concerning these Spanish 99 genre. To my 'yet amateur' mind, perhaps in going to Spain, better off moving back in to classic Savages. The eighties & nineties American market, about a new gun a minute! Tough competition! What say the Savage folks here. As my Win '86, would the picture be different had the Spanish Savage emerged in classic context? Perhaps a few basic 'senior models' in yet popular chamberings!

Open question!
Best!
John

Some info on the Spanish 99s on pg. 107-108 of David’s book.

What's the question?

Callahan disagreed with that 1992 date. He had it at or around '87-'88.

1992 would mean that Savage advertised the 99C in their catalogs for 5 years despite not producing any at all. Which is only slightly more weird than going 5 years and only producing 700-1200.

I think we should pool our resources and contract with a machine shop in Wuhan to build us a bunch of EG's, and sell them and retire filthy rich. Fit them with KowDung walnut and offer them in any caliber as long as it's .250-3000. Pre-drill for scopes in some bastard thread size and hole spacing, and offer mounts/screws only available from us.

Well heck, if we get Lightfoot to fall in we could easily alter his mount to fit what ever oddball configuration you can think of. I think we're half-way there.

I like it!

Parts that Llama set up for the investment cast process, as per Callahan:

* receivers
* triggers
* levers
* safety's
* internal hammers(the long "L" shaped assembly that holds the mainspring and firing pin)
* magazine latch.

i Have had everything i ever wan from Wuhan Gary, thank you very much! still coughing up my toe nails.
Now if we could get a Turkish manufacturer on board that might be the cats meow. think Turkish walnut stocks!

So it sounds like the Llama 99s really were Savage's last gasp effort to keep the 99 going,

Well.. second from last gasp. The last one was producing them in the USA for several years in the 90's. Even that wasn't the last.. they looked at using CNC about 10 or 12 years ago to bring the price down low enough to introduce them again.

Interesting. There's been plenty talk about the earliest 99/1899/1895 serial number known but do we know what the latest serial number was? And who here on the forum has the latest 99 ever made? That's kind of a cool distinction.

Now that would be cool: to own the earliest known Savage and the latest known 99. I think Rory should sell all his stuff and begin that quest. Here, I'll hold your beer.

Earliest known Savage is serial number 1, and I don't think the owner will share it with me.

Last produced Savage is known.. but no idea where it went to. I think Loggah has one of the highest serial numbers we've seen? My highest was a 1999.

I think my 99c is 2001 i have to check. I think i might have the earliest 1895 that we have found also.

So what are the earliest and latest member owned serial numbers?

I have a 99C serial #F836,211 that letters as manufactured in September 1999. It's in 300 Savage and there was a discussion on here a few years ago that these rifles in 300 Sav were special ordered by some company. I haven't seen one but I have heard repeatedly that there were some 99C's with a G serial number and therefore later than this rifle.

Teaser! At least one of us yearns for more...perhaps in a new thread.

Doug, You must be a mind reader !! just started a new thread.

Ok Don, what's the serial # of the 1895

David ,its posted in the other thread.

yeah, I saw it when I went to that thread. If memory serves me we had a thread years ago where some one came up with a serial # in the 3200 range. As far as the numbering starting at 5000 and then going backwards after about 8200 I have the following historian letters: SN 5162 received at Savages offices Feb 22, 1896; 7844 received at Savage's offices August 7, 1896 and 4775 received at Savage's offices December 26, 1896. This third rifle seems to validate that the numbers started going down at about SN 5000 after reaching 8200+ or -. Do you have a letter on 3603?
I'm going to Cody Tuesday. Maybe I can shed some light on this while I'm there.

David, It is a case hardened 1895,shipped on 9 -31-1896. I have serial number 5266 that states it was accepted at savage 2-21-1896. I also have s/n 5449 which was accepetd at savage 3-5-1896. Don

So what we have is the following.
Serial # Date received at Savage's Office
5266 2-21-1896
5162 2-22-1896
5449 3-5-1896
6274 4-25-1896
7844 8-7-1896
3903 9-3-1896
4775 12-26-1896
We need more data. This limited data makes it sound like they started back at about 3000 and went up into the high 4000's instead of going backwards from about 5000.
Incidentally 4775 was a SRC that was still in Savage inventory when they started producing 1899's. Therefore it could have been very late production. The factory shortened the barrel and installed an 1899 type bolt. It wasn't shipped until June 29, 1899. It was shipped to the Rice-Lewis Co. No location given but there was a company by that name in Ontario, Canada, near the guy Bill Rantz bought the rifle from.

Yes.
Rick, Joe, BillR, and others have been collecting 1895 dates for a very long time and have quite a number of them.

Hopefully they will let us know. I am under the impression that they numbered downward from 5000 after reaching 8200.

They were being delivered fast, but multiple 1895's in the 3000 serial number range start showing up before any 1895's in the 4000 serial number range show up.

And definitely NOT delivered in consistent serial number order..very intermixed. Rather than a 2 month range on a single ledger sheet, you're probably going to see accepted dates scattered over 7 or 9 months.

We'll have to wait a while before I can look at the books in Cody. South Pass was closed due to a blizzard. If I sound like I'm in a bad mood in some posts today that's because I am in a bad mood. Damn weather.

I'm thinking Callahan made a typo on my letter for my SRC 4736, not to far off of Bills and accepted Dec 31, 1896 yet shipped Aug 7 1896, do the math??????

And to throw a wrench into the gears that are turning right now, 9703 Oct bbl shipped Sept 3, 1896.

Have fun with that.

The December date sounds right, Joe, the August sounds too early for that late of a gun. Wonder if ship date wasn’t actually 1897? Those ledgers are hard to read sometimes.

Was Charles Newton involved with some of the cartridge development like 250 Savage and the 300 Savage and maybe others for the Savage 99 ?

Yes. 22HP, 250-3000 and apparently the 300 Savage. Though the final designs of all of those may have been the work of Savage engineers like Charles Nelson.

mad dog, do you have the date 9703 was received at Savage's offices?
pete53, Charles Newton was involved with the development of the 22 HP and the 250-3000. The only info we have on the 300 was that unknown Savage engineers developed it. He wasn't involved with any of the others as far as we know.

Not accurate on 300 Savage. Charles Newton took credit for it in the late 20's, the LEVERBOLT company I posted the ad from was a Charles Newton company.

Thanks for that info on the 300.

What year would you like it have been shipped?
4736 1895-F .303 SAV 22" 12/31/1896 8/7/189?
4758 1895-F .303 SAV 12/19/1896 1/26/1898
4775 1895-F .303 SAV 1899 bolt 12/26/1896 6/29/1899

As for serial order of the 1895s... it appears that the 5000 range was the start (around 2/1896), followed by the 6000 to 7900 range (into the third quarter 1896), with late 7000, 3000 & 4000's bring up the rear (to first part of 1897).

Within all the ranges you will find random dates that don't fit the pattern.

The date we use for the 1899 is the date sent to the ware house and the date shipped out of the plant. For the 1895 it is the date of receipt at Savage from Marlin and then the date shipped from Savage. So, the production order at Marlin might have been more in numeric order than the log shows.

If only those production records at Marlin still existed. Maybe laying in a box somewhere at Cody.. one can always hope.