Savage pistol article - 24hourcampfire

You all might find this interesting?

https://americanhandgunner.com/handguns/the-savage-model-1907-pistol-eating-colts-lunch/

I did!
Thanks Bruce.

Nice article.

Good article. Thanks

makes you wonder why the U.S. did not accept the savage .45, have handled but never fired one, came close to buying.

Good article, thanks for sharing.

Originally Posted by texken

makes you wonder why the U.S. did not accept the savage .45, have handled but never fired one, came close to buying.

The military trials that included Colt and Savage are well documented. Though Savage performed admirably under grueling test conditions, design changes and repairs, the Colt performed better.
This article shines more favorably on Savage pistols as compared to the Colt .32, .380 and .38 pistols of the time.

Didn't the Savage pistol fail the cement mixer test?

Originally Posted by wyo1895

Didn't the Savage pistol fail the cement mixer test?

I read somewhere that one of the "tests" was to enter some amount of sand or dirt into the firearms under test and observe the results.
Sounds like a potentially reasonable test for a firearm to be used in combat.

I am curious as to what the exact test protocol was?
I mean, this was the government conducting tests.
In order to test all firearms in the same exacting manner it would be important to conduct identical tests otherwise the resulting data wouldn't be of much use.
Something like this made up example;
-add 1 cup of silica sand, 1 cup of water to a 12"x12"x12" sealed container, add unit under test (pistol) and shake the box 3 times on 3 sides, remove test pistol, visual inspection, operational inspection, etc.

Anybody have knowledge in this area?

Colt:

Quote

(l) Both ends of the barrel were tightly corked and the pistol was exposed for one minute, in a box prepared for the purpose, to a bast of fine sand, the magazine being empty. A representative of the company removed the surplus sand by blowing, jarring and wiping the piece with the bare hand only. Time required to fire 7 shots was 1 minute and 56 seconds, using the arm as a self-loader. Seven more shots were then similarly fired.
(m) The above test was then repeated, except thatt the arm contained a loaded magazine when exposed to dust. Time required to fire 7 shots was 53 seconds, using the arm as a self-loader. Seven more shots were then similarly fired.
NOTE - After this test part of the sear was found broken and a new sear was inserted.

Savage:

Quote

( n) Both end.s of the barrel were tightly corked and the pistol was exposed for 1 minute, in a box prepared for the purpose, to a blast of fine sand, the magazine being empty. A representative of the campany removed the surplus sand by blowing, jarring, and wiping the piece with the bare hand only. Time required to fire 3 shots was 51 3/5 seconds, the operation as a self-loader being satisfactory.
(o) The above test was then repeated, except that the arm was exposed to dust with a loaded magazine. Time required to fire 8 rounds was 53 seconds. The 639th, 643d, and 644th rounds misfired, but the cartridges exploded on second trial. The 644th round jammed, the fired cartridge case not having been entirely ejected and being caught by the bolt.

This is a pretty good short read on the trials. https://sightm1911.com/lib/history/M1911_Trials.htm

Bailey Brower also had a very good write-up on the Savage 45 development and the trials.

I'll look through my 1911 books when I get back up north.

Thanks Rory.

Not sure if that is The "cement mixer" test, but sounds like it. Grueling.

In any case, this article seemed to think the Savage pistol out performed Luger and Colt in the sand test.

" One test involved blasting each pistol with fine sand for one minute. After this treatment, the tester blew and brushed the sand off the pistol and fired it to assess its reliability. In another torture test, each handgun was degreased, its barrel plugged, and the weapon immersed in a corrosive solution for five minutes. Another reliability test followed. The Savage bested both the Luger and the Colt in the sand test and delivered projectiles at a higher velocity than either."

Pistol Trials article

What I quoted was the trials that led up to Colt and Savage being selected for the field tests. Beyond general shooting and measuring velocity of bullets tests, the only other "tests" were the sand test quoted above and a rust test which involved being immersed in a "sal-ammoniac" solution and then being fired the next day.

Here is a link to the Ordnace Departments 1907 Testing and Results that included the sand and dust testing. It lists all the test for both the revolvers andautomatics tested.
I you use the find with "sand" to there quick.

https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/manuals/1907pistoltrials.pdf

I thought I remembered them being put in a cement mixer with dirt. Could have been some other pistol at another time.
The U.S. Military made the same mistake of adopting a wimpy cartridge in the late 1980's as they did about 90 years previously with the warfare in the Philippines. They replaced the 1911 with a Beretta 9 MM. I heard that some units brought back the 1911 due to the ineffectiveness of the Beretta.
Savage did real well competing against an established company like Colt with a John Browning designed semi-auto. Like one of the articles said, John Browning was the best gun designer ever. I like the part where it said the competition caused Colt to produce a better firearm than they might have done without the quality of the Savage. However, I do like my 1911's.

Originally Posted by wyo1895

Savage did real well competing against an established company like Colt with a John Browning designed semi-auto. Like one of the articles said, John Browning was the best gun designer ever. I like the part where it said the competition caused Colt to produce a better firearm than they might have done without the quality of the Savage. However, I do like my 1911's.

Totally agree!