Hey guys, I have a 1911 1899A in 303 savage. The first 1/4" or so of the bore at the muzzle has no rifling probably due to a steel cleaning rod. This gun is all original but it is a shooter not collector. It only shoots 5" group at 100 yds. My options are. 1. Cut barrel down from 26" to 25 3/4". 2. Counterbore the inside diameter to 1/4" depth and see if it shoots better. (Anyone ever do this with good results). Or 3. Leave if be and dont take a hunting shot over 100 yds. Opinions welcome.

If I absolutely had to shoot/hunt with it I would counterbore the muzzle, but it probably needs to go deeper than 1/4". Alternatively, I would look for another barrel or have one made and fitted, and then stash the original barrel away to be kept with the gun for posterity's sake.

Thanks gnoahhh, anyone have better accuracy results by overboring the muzzle?

How about cast? Would that help. I haven't cast since my BP days almost 50 years ago.

Never have cast but not really interested in it. I wonder if counterbore on the end of the muzzle will cause blow by that will cause the bullet to yaw. But then again that's very similar to how brakes work.

I'd look for a competent gunsmith and have them counterbore it before I did anything else.

Thanks to all for the replies.

Maybe you have covered these;
-the shooter?
-the rifle?
-the load/bullet?

Sounds like it'll kill a deer at 100 yds. or less as is. Where I hunt (WI), I would use it.

If you need something better than that, get it.
Running a rifle down the road in favor of another isn't a sin.

It's my 10th savage 1899/99. It's not going anywhere. I just like squeezing all the accuracy out of em i can. Tried several loads with 150g hornady interlock and Sierra 150 spire point. next will be another powder.The guy on the butt stock can shoot way better than 5" groups!

I would sure try some heavier bullets then. 180 or 190 round nose should bring better results.

If it's that bad, cast bullets won't help a bit. Counterbore it around 2" and I'll betcha it shoots a lot better.

Accuracy is a good thing.
How does a 190gr. Fly?
Only thing I shoot in .303

since you said its a shooter, cut at least 1"

I have a box of 180 grain Sierra r.n. on the shelf, i will give them a try

IF the muzzle is worn from mis-applied cleaning rods you're going to get the same results no matter what bullet you try. Save the bullets until you address the issue, either by counterboring or lopping a bunch off the end of the barrel.

I messed with too many stinky old milsurps in my life that exhibited the same condition, and tried every trick in the book to circumvent counterboring/shortening/replacing the barrels.

If the muzzle were worn perfectly evenly then it'll probably still shoot ok. But ham-handed cleaning rod usage is pretty likely to not induce perfectly concentric wear.

Before I counter bore does anyone have evidence that it will truly work?

I'm surprised the spire points would feed in a 99.

Yeah, I've done it with a couple Mausers and a .22. It works.

Use a tight fitting pin gauge in the bore to dial in concentricity in the lathe chuck to guarantee the counter bore isn't lopsided to the bullet's travel. That or a reamer or drill bit with a pilot.

I have done it also and it does work, you just have to go deep enough. No one will notice if done right-just over bore diameter.

Mike

A target crown I assume is much like a counter bore?

I have had pleasant results from target crowns, and cutting barrels shorter B4 target crowns are put in.

The GCA empirically determined that steel rods, even segmented ones, in and of themselves, don't cause muzzle wear, and, in fact, it is muzzle erosion, same as the throat, except at ~ 1/3rd the rate/round fired.

As for the muzzle itself?

Countrer-boring - to solid lands, has been known to improve precision dramatically.




GR

Whatinhell is a GCA, and why/how did whoever they are prove that dragging a steel cleaning rod haphazardly through a muzzle won't cause wear?