It has been my understanding the RS rifles were so named and equipped with better sights than the other rifles because they were more accurate. Does anybody know the protocol for determining which rifles became a RS, how many rounds were fired and at what range etc.

Mike

The sum total of knowledge about that is:


Nobody has any idea what "selected for accuracy" means.

How do you determine whether a 99 is a Version 1 99R or 99RS? I'm fairly sure this is an RS that I'm looking into (1937), I understand the easiest way in my thinking/research is the forend with 2 lines cut perpendicular to the stock length (which this one has), (I assume that an RS should have a sight on the tang equipped from the factory, is that the only difference, same rifle otherwise?) But did Savage install T-7 mounts from the factory on either the 99R or 99RS version 1's? (the one I'm looking into has the T-7 style mount). And if Savage did equip either the 99R or 99RS with T-7 mounts on either, how would you tell if it were an R or RS, if the only difference is the factory installed/equipped rear tang sight? Does this look like an original sling mount on a 99R/RS?

That is not an RS sling swivel stud. In my opinion that rifle is a pre-war R with a T-7 mount. No way to be certain if the mount came with the rifle from Savage or was added later.

So, for clarity, I'm learning, forgive me . Upon further research, an R has no studs for sling mounts or rear factory installed tang sight? and an RS would have flat topped sling studs and a factory rear mounted Tang sight? could either R or RS be ordered with a factory installed T-7 mount? (just no way to verify this? or is there?)

The RS .250-3000 that I acquired in the early 1980's had the forend lines like the rifle in the picture. Also had sling swivel studs like pictured, it was equipped with a windage adjustable Lyman tang sight. It was one of the finest Savage 99's that I've ever owned.

I'm pretty sure there isn't a way to tell if they came with the T7. Does anyone have an RS that they know for sure came with one? I also wonder if they would have D/T them at Savage or if they would have shipped them elsewhere for that work to be done. In any case, I lean towards that rifle not originally coming with that mount. I would hope Savage, or whoever they paid to do the work, would have installed it better. Looks a little crooked and like it covers part of the rear screw ( mayb there is a reason?). Since everyone here had seen that rifle for sale, if the majority of people here thought it was original it would not be for sale any longer.

TBigBuck. First off the studs are not correct. They should be sling eyes. Secondly. The T-7 is an after thought to that particular. The mount is mounted to far to the rear partially covering the head of the screw. I don't know if you have Rory's book, "The Savage 99 Pocket Reference", but that will answer the bulk of most questions in an easy to find manner. David Royal also has a book on the market that works as well.

Thanks for the schooling! I do have that book and David's, but some of the pics are small for my eyes 😁 in the pocket guide...and I misunderstood the difference between sling eyes vs studs...sorry for my ignorance, thanks...that's what makes you guys the experts (mine lies in other areas!)

Here's a 1933 with original sling setup. I believe 1937 would be the same. A 1937 would be 2-point (not three) and would have a Lyman 30 1/2 tang sight.

The RS didn't have the sling eyes. It had what is pictured above.

The sling eyes showed up on the later R model. Why they used eyes in that time period defies logic.

I've learned one or two things from this thread. Maybe relearned is more accurate. Glad you started it.

My 2cents, I worked for Small Arms Manufacturing, now Shaw, in another life and not all barrels are straight. We had experienced people who could straighten them with an overhead clamp by observing the shadows in the barrel. It was an art, and I'm sure Savage did something similar. Perhaps RS barrels were as close to perfect as could be determined without straightening. I believe Douglas also did this with their barrels.

Mike

Don't apologize for anything. I am by no means an expert.

Here is the Weaver ad showing the mount in the same position as OP's photo.

I think that's a shadow covering the screw.

No one here said don't buy it.

So, the general thinking is this is an R rifle (Not an RS) that got sling studs added at some point and possibly a T-7 mount, likely after the factory sold the rifle?...not a bad looking rifle, just not all original, correct?

I would say that's a correct assessment.

I like the way a T7 looks. I may have bought that rifle if it had been cheaper. All the extra holes kill the value but doesn't make it any less of a pretty cool shooting/hunting rig. A couple years ago I passed on a T with a side mounted scope. I don't recall the exact amount but it was under $800. I wish I would have bought it. I still think about it.

The R and RS wood was the same.

Keith's remark about 2 point vs 3 pt, refers to the checkering design of the time.

R did not have sling attachments while the RS did (Keith's photo). The ones on the rifle in question are modern with flats on the sides for modern swivels. That might have been changed or added. Main thing would be that the holes are in the correct location.

The R had only a standard rear sight while the RS had a 2 leaf folding Lyman #6 rear sight (Keith's photo) and a Lyman 30 1/2 tang sight. Note: if the elevator of the R rear sight is moved it will leave a wear mark on top of the barrel. This mark can sometime help in determination should sight have been removed/changed.

Savage stopped logging rifles before the rifle in question was produced. The scope and mount was an option but with no way to verify where or when it was added. I would think that Savage would have used a jig to locate the holes for drilling but at this point we have not been able to pin point where the factory holes were drilled.

Adding back the missing tang & rear sight plus locating a complete sling and parts is in the $500 to 600 range.

I started 20 plus years ago on the net answering questions about Savage lever rifles. Most I didn't have answers to and required a lot of digging/research. Most were questions I hadn't thought to ask myself. Any question you have after reviewing the books are more than welcome here.

The 1948 (or maybe '49) RS I had from my Grandfather -- ident by consensus here, in older threads and chambered in .300 Savage -- had the sling swivels (same as on our Winchester M71), RS fore end and checkering, folding Lyman #6 rear sight, Lyman tang sight (1A), and a Griffin & Howe cam-lock scope mount with a steel Weaver K2.5 positioned low over the bore.

The screw slots on the side mount were still there; no idea if that meant Savage or aftermarket installation. The G&H design at the time meant the 'scope had to be dismantled first to get a one-piece ring in between the ocular bell lens and the adjustment housing... so IOW the 'scope had to be put back together after that G&H ring was added. (G&H fixed me up with a two-piece solution to that...)

I've just recently passed that on to younger relatives...

-Chris

These are 3 pictures of my lettered pre-war RS. I agree that your gun is an R. If it were MY R and I tried to pass it off an an RS I would have tried to find these studs

No 99 with a factory T7 mount and scope is a $5-600 rifle.
No 99 R or RS is either even missing the receiver sight
Even a very good EG is either
Join Proxibid.com and see what they really close out at. Remember buyer's premium.


Now if one had an R and put the wrong swivel mounts in the right places, how could it be told from an RS ?

If one had an RS missing the rear receiver sight and changed the swivel mounts to the new style, how could it be claimed it is not an RS ?

Appears to be that, lacking any factory data, there are no answers, just opinions.

One point to look at is whether that forearm sling stud screws in to replace the forearm screw or is it above the screw.

The RS forearm stud screwed in to replace the machine screw.

Thanks😉

It replaces it.
So it's an RS with new swivel studs.
Just as it was advertised as on Proxibid.

There were aftermarket modern Savage 99 studs made that used the front screw attachment. They were easily found. So the fact that it has them doesn't prove it's an RS.

If it doesn't have the right studs and peep sight, there's just no way of being sure. It's hard to fake a 99R to 99RS because those flat topped studs are hard to find - not impossible, I've seen a couple 99R's "converted" to RS configuration but obvious because the buttstock stud was in the wrong place. Most of us just go with 99R when the sights and studs aren't there.

Just trying to follow along. I re-read the thread and am not following how proxy bid fits in. What am I missing?

"I think" the confusion is Rick stated the parts to "make" an RS would be $5-600, "over" the worth of an original R. Then I think ElkHunter thought he said the rifle would only be "worth" $5-600, and called Proxyibid in to confirm they were selling for a lot more than $5-600. Then again, I could be wrong?

And, since we are on the topic of RS's. Has anyone ever found a Post War RS? Confirmed, lettered, etc?

I have some pics (fig. 6-4) of a post war RS forearm and hook type sling swivel in the "Collector's Guide" but don't know who it belongs to.
In 1940 the RS went to the Lyman 70LH tang sight.

Unless you have a box that says 99RS, any 1950's style 99RS looking rifle is going to be only a "I think it's a 99RS". Don't think a letter would confirm the model, just a ship date (and Cody doesn't have access to these ledgers yet, they aren't even sure they have them.

I've had a couple that I believe are correct 99RS's, but couldn't prove it.

Neither of these were being sold as 99RS's, but rather as 99R's. So I find it less likely that somebody tried to "convert" them to 99RS's.

This is a 1957 99RS in 308. It was minty..


1952 99RS in 300.

That 308 is nice. I can't believe how much I ended up liking 99s in 308.

pic of my 1940 vintage 99RS showing the 2 point checkering, the sling and sling swivel. Serial #3888XX

next pic shows the buttstock, swivel and sling on the 1940 vintage RS. It has a Lyman 70LH peep sight (not shown).

For comparison a 1950 vintage R. It has the sling eyes like the RS so it have started life as an RS. Serial #5739XX. Note the simpler checkering.

The 1950 R has a Boone 2 1/4 power scope. I posted many years ago. Figured the new guys would like to see it.

I just picked up a 250 with a similar scope. The only marking on it says Saturn. Where can i learn more about it?

So, in summary, there is no way, as in factory records, to prove a rifle is an R or RS ?
A R can be modified to become an RS but the financial prize is not worth the quest.
Proxibid is the real world of what people are willing to pay for a given item at a given time.

At least "some" (can never say ALL) are stamped on the front of the receiver.

Post war....Yes on all accounts

At least "some" (can never say ALL) are stamped on the front of the receiver.

I would disagree that Proxybid is real world anything

Biden has the Markets scared, people are running to tangibles.

I would argue that in the real world a gun is worth whatever somebody is willing to pay for it. Not what I or you would pay for it.

I'm really missing the proxybid thing. People buy guns on other platforms too, wouldn't they all be an indicator of what people will pay?

Agreed. The person that posted that is familiar with that platform. He is just using that as an example platform that he is familiar with. There are many platforms to sell guns. Whatever they sell for, no matter the platform, is the "real world".

Ah, ok. I was taking it to literally.

I posted about ours, upthread a bit. Not confirmed or lettered, though.

Serial number resolved to 1948. Although one source said '49, but it at least pre-dated the letter boss coding system said to have started in 1949. Ours seemed to have all the right RS features... although the tang sight was a Lyman 1A... and I seem to remember in some other thread here, long ago, that Rick or somebody mentioned the butt plate (or something about the rear stock profile?) seemed a bit different.

Ours came to me from my Grandad, first owner, and I sorta doubt he would have made any modifications to the forestock, checkering pattern, sling studs, etc. It might be conceivable he swapped a non-windage-adjustable tang sight (if that might have been original) for a windage-adjustable Lyman 1A... but I don't think that would have been likely.

It also might have been possible he had the Griffin & Howe cam-lock scope mount added after purchase, but I'd say more likely it came that way from the original selling gunstore -- and maybe even most likely from Savage since they were apparently known to install the G&H mounts from time to time. OTOH, the three mount screw slots were still present, contrary to what some have said about the Savage factory installation system. (OTOOH, seems odd to me anyone would grind those screw heads down so the mount base becomes no longer removable...)

-Chris

Ranger, looking back at photos of your gun I have to make a correction. It has RS type studs, but not installed like an RS. Your forearm stud is screwed into the wood by the front double lines, an RS would have the front stud using the forearm screw for the stud.
Sorry to mislabel it back then. I think I’d lean towards it being a 99R now, with studs, sights and G&H mount installed aftermarket. Still a fantastic and extremely rare configuration for 1948.

Here are couple pictures of the G&H installation on my 1943 EG 250-3000 (it has a T forearm on it).

missedbycracky, The scope is a Boone Saturn.

G&H always ground the screw heads flat when they do the installation. As well as 3 screws there are 2 pins. In spite of somewhat ugly, they are very solid and allow the use of irons should the scope fail.

https://griffinhowe.com/mounts

The reason Proxibid is a good source on values is that it collect ALL the sales from every major auction house. If you do a search for "Savage 99" you may see several from different sales all over the country. As we speak there are 8 there including a $35000 G&H engraved one. With a custom made G&H mount.

If you join and "watch" the auction, you can see what it closes for. Don't forget to add the buyer's premium ! Shipping is also very expensive.

Fair enough, thanks for the re-look.

I've recently passed it on, and my pics aren't great; remind me where is the forearm stud? I don't see evidence of it in any of my snaps... and it's been such a long time since I had it apart that I've forgotten some of it. (Besides, I'm old, memory never was all that great, worse now.)

Hard for me to imagine Grandad might have had aftermarket work done like that -- versus buying a custom-ordered or an already-modified off-the-shelf rifle. Too bad I wasn't bright enough to ask more about when he first lent it to me... in 1974.




I suspect that's the part I was slightly mis-remembering, incorrectly attributed to Savage. I did ask G&H once about this one, but they told me they didn't have records that far back. (That seemed a bit odd, but I know they've moved at least a couple of times...)

-Chris

Ranger, this was your 99 on top. You can see on the bottom picture on mine where the stud is farther back.

Thanks, Rory. The only reason I ask is my 1951 R in 300 has Pre War flat top sling studs. Every Pre War RS I've seen has the forearm stud on the forearm screw. My studs are exactly where the two eyes are on your pictures. I'm sorry if I call the studs/eyes the wrong name, to clarify, I call the old small sling attachments "Eyes". The eyes on my 1950 R look like the ones in your picture, similar to the eyes on my 1912 H. I call the big round flat top attachments "Studs". I put a mic on the center of the forearm screw, to the center of the Eye on the 1950 R. Off the top I think it was 2.42". Then I measured from the center of the forearm screw to the center of the stud. They were exactly the same. Bubba probably just used the same holes? I've never called my 51 with the studs an RS, never will. But, I've always thought it was interesting that if Bubba put the studs on, it looks like he tossed a set of factory eyes to put the more expensive studs on the rifle. When I bought the rifle it had a tang sight on it, but I couldn't afford it. I forget if it had a rear sight, it has a blank in it now. I think it has the same front sight as my 1950 R, in 250. Anyway, I've been thinking of selling the one with the studs, several people have offered me pretty good money for the studs. So, if I sell it, I might pull the Pre War studs and put a set of eyes on it? It's a nice rifle with good case colors still on the outside of the lever. Just because I've dreamt that this was the ever elusive Post War RS, if we could letter it, I'd drop $75 on it.

Where are the markings on an RS and what is a Boone Saturn?

Purty sure those answers are in the archives. Asked and answered 30 years ago, then again 20 years ago, then again 10 years ago.

Glad to see some familiar names still with us.😁

Merry Christmas to all

Thank you Ram. I miss your method of driving a point into a thick skull.

The 1951 catalog says the RS has the same specifications as the 99R except for sights, and the 99R had sling eyes.

They were still selling the flat topped studs separately in 1951 (4A studs & swivels, 7/8" or 1 1/4", $4.75).

So it looks like the owner of your rifle upgraded the studs.

That's what I suggested when I looked at it Saturday. He'll believe you Rory.

Ask me next year, I might have a different opinion.

I didn't have it Saturday, I had the 1950 R in 250. Of course I will believe Rory. He's a Rory, you are just a Randy. One has to know his R's around here.

Got it, thanks. Yep, I do see the difference. And in the meantime, I found one pic that shows where the forearm screw is on mine (once I zoomed in enough), same locations as yours. I don't have pics of the forearm detached, so dunno if the stud is attached with a machine screw/nut or a wood screw... (Although since it looks/measures identical to the stud on our Winchester M71, I reckon I could look to see how THAT'S attached and assume the attachment on the M99 would be the same. I'd imagine the OEM fabricator probably may not have made these in two different screw styles...)

Interesting I think you've said earlier (or maybe it was Rick) that the checkering pattern and the two lines on my forestock were of the RS style... and it does look like yours. Unlike the separated triangles on the known-to-be-Rs, I guess... I imagine changing the whole forestock would have been something Grandad would absolutely NOT have done.

-Chris

I guess you are right, we were just talking about it and I didn't actually see it. Getting old and senile. (me that is)

I was just joking, we were talking about it, and I think I had it the last time we were shooting. I thought I had it the weekend we were playing with the 250A Saddle Gun?

LBK. HOWDY! How's your hammer hanging Son? Hope all is well and you came through the China Plague unharmed. This place is amazing. 3 years gone, and walk into the same conversation. What's even more amazing? You inform them of a factory marking that could resolve their dilemma.
Bubkis! Totally ignored, phfffffft they continue kibitzing over minutia like swivels .

I dunno, maybe its just me, call me practical, I'll take the letters RS slammed into steel at forge over whether the sling stud is textbook perfect. Its an accessory Any idiot can change an accessory. The receiver IS the gun.

I had a Pinto with Lincoln hubcaps. Didn't make it a Mark IV.

Hang in there brother.

Thank God we have another condescending self-proclaimed genius to set us all straight.

It’s worth looking at, but hasn’t proved helpful for oddballs that show up 1945-1949. Pretty much every one is stamped EG, even all the RTs that I remember.

That's the Ram I remember. Wife and I are fine. No China flu. Nothing has really changed. Most of, but not all, of the old timers stick to the PM but don't post . I hope you stick around this time.

Uhhh... where would the model stamping be? Never saw anything similar on ours...

Oh, never mind. Reviewing the serial number thread, I see all I've got is an "X".

-Chris

Not doubting your memory Rory, but I have two RTs, both of which have a “5” stamped on the front of the receiver. Neither is stamped EG - at least according to my records - I didn’t pull the forearms again. (One has a “4” and the other has a “5” stamped on on the bottom of the barrel.)

Following this with interest as I have what I believe to be a R and a RS.

Appears to me there is no 100% certain way to identify either.

I will pull the Fore ends and see what's marked.

Always doubt my memory!

Need to pull out all my prewar 99R's and 99RS's and check the front as well. Everyone I remember has an 8. But never took notes on them.

What's the cutoff join date for "old timers"? Obviously I'm not in that group but just curious.

The mystery deepens.

I dragged out my 99 300 Sav. 24" bbl serial 73238X that was sold to me years ago as an R model.
It appears to conform to everything in David's book.
But unlike my prewar RS, the fore arm is held on with a screw fastened to a female dovetaill let into the barrel.
Clarification ?

Another thing I ran across is that the 99 wearing the T7 in his book has the mounting screws much farther forward than my RS or the one shown in old Weaver ad. The one in thge book also has flush screws rather than the knurled ones handscrews on mine and in the ad. Looks and carries better no doubt.

The "old timers" are the guys that were here before the new guys got here and ruined it.


I'm not in the old timer club either so don't feel bad...

From my perspective the 'old timers' are the guys that migrated over from the Gun & knife forum where this all started. When it shut down Rick99 found a home for us here and we all signed up.

I think that Rick has a roster of the old G&K guys.

Today none of that matters a lot to me. A lot of folks wandered in and became part of the group and respected members. It's not the age but the cut of yer jib that matters to me.

Frankly, absolutely no offense intended, I'm impressed a lot of the "old-timers" where computer literate enough in the 1990s to participate in online forums. I'm no spring chicken but a lot of the really long time members are probably about my dad's age, from what I can tell. It took him a very long time to even own a computer and even longer to participate in hunting and gun forums.

Im pretty sure this forum hasn't been ruined!!! one of the best on the campfire. But we who have been here for some time do hear the same questions asked over,and over,and over ! newbys got to learn somewhere!

Would help out with duplicate questions if the search function worked decently.

1) The 1950 99R forearm eyelet goes into the wood, and a screw holds the forearm on. You can see the forearm eyelet and the screw hold on the forearm here.


2) Prewar 99RS forearm studs replaced the forearm screw for attaching the forearm. As seen here:


3) The T7 mounts do wander a bit.. it's believed the factory ones would be placed like the ad, but there's no firm confirmation on that. I think the standard screws were the knurled heads, and really nice ones show that many were case colored (iirc).

And by having people come in and ask questions, even if it's the same questions we've seen 500 times... once in a great while, we find out something new.

Ain't that the truth! The so-called search here SUX!

Calhoun, thanks for the clarification.
My R is a wonderful rifle wearing a Denver Redfield 4X post and CH scope.
Shoots 3 factory 150s in 1" @100.

Also appears you T7 mount is higher and farther forward than mine or the Weaver ad. Suppose Savage must have done the holes w/o a jig.

Or that those guns weren't done by the factory.

Shoes getting a 'lil tight? And you thought you were King [bleep] on Enema Island? At least you recognize greatness when you read it.

CH scope as in

Scope?

Or your's was not. Another Savage mystery until we round up every one with the T7 mount and compare them.

Found 4 T7 pics on the net.









None look exactly the same.

Stick around? I doubt it. Bubble gum crowd will be playing Tyler Swift in the background any minute now. Can't take that. Seems like a pretty egotistical group of wanna be's bowing to the altar of someone who owes EVERYTHING to Doug, yet his name doesn't appear to be ever mentioned here anymore. Sad. The generation of burn the books, tear down the statues, screw history, cancel culture, cite wikapedia, and I got mine. Not how I roll. Sorry. Merry Christmas to the "old guys on the low down"

Not to split hairs but it's Taylor Swift.

Just sayin...

Is there a workout video?

My R? RS? was made in 42. Barrel bottom stamped 2. Receiver front: 8. Forearm front, butt plate and rear of stock stampings match serial #. Forearm has 2 lines, is narrow, has W shaped checkering and 1 hole with just a screw. Stock bottom: No hole. Has a grip cap with one screw hole. Front/Rear sight match up with V3.3 described in Savage book. It was made during WW2, so figured WTH.

Don't RS's all have sling studs?

My 1940 RS has an 8 stamped on the front of the receiver and a 6 on the bottom of the barrel, Matching #'s, front swivel holds the forearm on, etc.
My 1950 R or RS? has nothing on the front of the receiver or bottom of the barrel. The sling swivel is separate from the screw that holds the forearm on.

The letter says it is an R. It also mentions the double line on the foreend tip for rifles manufactured before 1950. Hence my confusion as I thought only the RS had the double line?

Are mid-war 99’s considered pre-war?

Yes. Very, very few of the 99R Version 1 style are seen from 1942 to 1946 so many people just say "pre-war 99R". In reality they were catalogued even postwar for a year or two.

All of the Version 1 99R's and 99RS's had the double lines.

Uh no, CH =s crosshair, PCH =s post and crosshair, dot&CH =s dot and crosshair, post =s plain post gotta remember most utes have never seen a scope with anything but a Plex reticle.

Just in case, this is one.

I have two T7 guns that has filler screws that have never been touched with a screwdriver I believe. A G in 30-30 and an H in 250, V3-2 Mike

From what I have found the Weaver S mount was in production from around 1934. The T mount was added (or replaced the S) in 1939. The S mount only had two screws in each ring while the T had 4.

The first scope offering was shown in the Savage 1937 catalog. The scope that was available for the 99 was the Weaver 29-S in a Weaver S mount.

In 1938 the Weaver 330-S scope was added. It would have been supplied in the S mount till the improved T mount was phased in.

I think all of these dates would be + or - depending on catalog release date, production availability and units on hand.

The factory D&T was special order and was free with the purchase of a scope. I don't think the scope was shipped attached. The dealers would have sold the scope and mounts also and was probable more likely to have added the units than placing an order through a jobber and wait for a special order rifle. That might account for why we see so few mounts located in the same place.

What T mount had 4 screws ?
All T7s had two holes.

The rings, not the receiver.

2 screws in the receiver for all, 4 rings on the rings for T-7's.

Did Savage factory ever install a folding semi buckhorn (in dovetailed barrel) rear sight on a Version 2 R or RS? Is there a definite way to tell a version 2 R from RS? As in, if someone added the proper sights to the tang? like this one? I thought it could be an RS, but how would I be sure?
https://www.gunsinternational.com/g.../savage-99r-300-sav.cfm?gun_id=102165783

99RS Version 2:
1) Redfield 70LH receiver sight
2) Rear sight slot blank
3) Front Lyman #31 gold bead

Them was the specs from the start to the end..

Ways to tell if a 99R has been "changed":
1) Missing one or more of the above
2) blue rubbed off where a rear sight would have sat

I'd say that's a 99R with a Redfield on it since the front and rear sights look to have been changed.

So, In later Savage 99's there was not much in the way of special orders/changes like the early years? correct? Things were like today's products. no change to the way it's made, all should be the same?

Correct. There is no log info to tell what was shipped. That folding rear looks like a Marbles 95 which was not used on any other Savage after WWII.

thanks, Starting to see clarity through the clouds of naivety!